Edwards fired, wanny hired

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Gailey: 3-hour meeting this morning with Edwards prior to firing:

 

http://wgr550.com/Bills-Fire-George-Edwards--Wannstedt-Named-New-DC/11878652

[Arkady Renko]

Gailey: 3-hour meeting this morning with Edwards prior to firing:

 

http://wgr550.com/Bills-Fire-George-Edwards--Wannstedt-Named-New-DC/11878652

 

Where did they get the picture though? Kind of odd that they would allow pictures to be taken at the meeting. I guess the Bills are instituting an open-door meeting policy to help appease the fans. Not sure if it will work or not.

[Coach Tuesday]

Gailey: 3-hour meeting this morning with Edwards prior to firing:

 

http://wgr550.com/Bills-Fire-George-Edwards--Wannstedt-Named-New-DC/11878652

 

Looks like a brutal meeting.

[silvermike]

So far, Buddy's acquired Troup, Carrington, Moats, Batten, Sheppard, and Chris White in the draft for our front 7. Can anyone tell me who wouldn't fit in a 4-3? I honestly don't know how to call it for LBs; I have a sense that Troup is really a fairly pure NT, but he wouldn't start for us in a 3-4 anyway.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Gailey: 3-hour meeting this morning with Edwards prior to firing:

 

http://wgr550.com/Bills-Fire-George-Edwards--Wannstedt-Named-New-DC/11878652

 

I hate you.

[Kelly the Dog]

To me, this means a few things, all of which are conjecture...

 

1] It likely means Gailey knew Edwards wasn't equipped for the job or wasn't good enough awhile ago. Once that became clear it is always too late, and it doesnt do any good to fire a coordinator in the middle of the year. It rarely works and especially on this team, would not have mattered much, although I think Wanny would have done a better job. We wouldn't have made the playoffs. By doing it early today, it was quick and decisive and we didn't get any month long evaluation. I thought he was gone but I was pleasantly surprised that it was so immediate. It's possible that Buddy or Ralph chipped in and said make the move, but I think Chan would have anyway. It was obvious.

 

2] I think Wanny, because of his entire history, every single thing he said, everything the players said and Gailey said and everything I saw and heard, intentionally didn't want to step on Edwards toes and didn't. Edwards ran the show. I think Wanny helped on game planning on both offense and defense. But Edwards called all the defenses and game calls. Sometimes it it really just a matter of knowing what to call and when, having a feel for the game and your opponent, being able to think calmly and clearly under pressure, and having the knack and the luck for making the right call at the right time that determines whether your defense is good or bad. Edwards clearly was not good at that. Wanny has proved he could do that as a DC. I think it was the right call to get him in and let him run the show.

 

3] What needs to be determined is whether they play 3-4, 4-3 or a hybrid. Wanny is and always has been a 4-3 guy but he knows the 3-4 inside out too because he is a veteran defensive coach. We have drafted for 3-4 for two years. Barnett and Shep are better suited to 3-4. Dwan Edwards and carrington are. The Bills fully expect Merriman back at 100% and he is (although I also fully expect an OLB beast LB chosen #1 or #2 and/or a FA starter signed at OLB). Kyle Williams and Dareus can play either. To me, I think they stick with a hybrid going into this year, and draft for the 3-4 unless there is some stud LB available that only can play in a 4-3 which is unlikely.

[BillsWatch]

Gailey: 3-hour meeting this morning with Edwards prior to firing:

 

http://wgr550.com/Bills-Fire-George-Edwards--Wannstedt-Named-New-DC/11878652

 

Since when were you invited since your picture is there? Did Ralph send the plain for you or did you fly up yourself?

[Brandon]

Back to the 4-3? I hope not. The 3-4 switch hasn't worked out, but its largely because they haven't invested anything at OLB. Fix that and I think this D will improve significantly. The 4-3 still has the same basic problem, lack of a pass rush, but I think its easier to find that with a 3-4 OLB than with a 4-3 DE. I don't think it'll help matters against the run, either. Oh well.

 

As for Edwards, good riddance, I suppose. Someone had to go, although I'd have preferred that they shop around a bit before just promoting the Wannstache.

[CardinalScotts]

Super Bowl here we come!!!!!!

One again putting the cart before the horses......maybe thats why your constantly disappointed, you don't let anything take the time to build. It's a solid move to an experienced defensive coach, getting our best players back on offense and defense and a weak schedule- things are looking upward - sorry

[BuffaloWings]

Buddy says they are a 3-4 team

 

expect more dysfunction as they keep the 3-4 and hire Wanny as a 4-3 coach to run it

 

Buddy has been drafting for a 3-4 since he got here - why would he change now?

One would think he would have (or already did) consulted with Wannstedt prior to this decision. I'd be asking him questions like "Do we have the personnel to run your defense? If not, what do we need to do?"

 

What I hope is that Wannstedt isn't going to go with a 4-3 just because that's "his system". Good coaches develop a system based on the players they have. I'd think Wannstedt either already knows what to do with the personnel in place or he tells Buddy to draft certain players to fit into what he wants to do.

 

Either way, I like the move. The defense showed they were out-coached and out-classed all year.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Hiring in-house always saves money.

Exactly! So when does Doug Whaley step up?

[jahnyc]

This was predictable. If Wanny has been involved in the D planning this year, then I am concerned. At least he is familiar with the personnel, which should help in figuring out needs and who should be playing going forward.

[San-O]

To me, this means a few things, all of which are conjecture...

 

3] What needs to be determined is whether they play 3-4, 4-3 or a hybrid. Wanny is and always has been a 4-3 guy but he knows the 3-4 inside out too because he is a veteran defensive coach. We have drafted for 3-4 for two years. Barnett and Shep are better suited to 3-4. Dwan Edwards and carrington are. The Bills fully expect Merriman back at 100% and he is (although I also fully expect an OLB beast LB chosen #1 or #2 and/or a FA starter signed at OLB). Kyle Williams and Dareus can play either. To me, I think they stick with a hybrid going into this year, and draft for the 3-4 unless there is some stud LB available that only can play in a 4-3 which is unlikely.

 

 

So. Stay with the 3-4 that has worked so well?

 

2010 Buffalo D points/game 28th in league.

2011 Buffalo D points/game 30th in league.

 

They actually got worse after 2 years in the 3-4 and drafting for it.

 

Note: If the Bills really think that Merriamn returns and again count on that, then I have no hope for the organization.

[John Cocktosten]

One again putting the cart before the horses......maybe thats why your constantly disappointed, you don't let anything take the time to build. It's a solid move to an experienced defensive coach, getting our best players back on offense and defense and a weak schedule- things are looking upward - sorry

 

I forgot, you're the guy who wants the 4 year rebuild. The 49ers and Bengals don't think it takes that long.

[Casey D]

One would think he would have (or already did) consulted with Wannstedt prior to this decision. I'd be asking him questions like "Do we have the personnel to run your defense? If not, what do we need to do?"

 

What I hope is that Wannstedt isn't going to go with a 4-3 just because that's "his system". Good coaches develop a system based on the players they have. I'd think Wannstedt either already knows what to do with the personnel in place or he tells Buddy to draft certain players to fit into what he wants to do.

 

Either way, I like the move. The defense showed they were out-coached and out-classed all year.

Gailey said they are going to evaluate the players, and decide if going to a 4-3 might make sense. Sounds like a totally reasonable evaluation and approach.

[Kelly the Dog]

So. Stay with the 3-4 that has worked so well?

 

2010 Buffalo D points/game 28th in league.

2011 Buffalo D points/game 30th in league.

 

They actually got worse after 2 years in the 3-4 and drafting for it.

 

Note: If the Bills really think that Merriamn returns and again count on that, then I have no hope for the organization.

So your solution is to go into 2012 in a 4-3? We would have no DEs unless you count Chris Kelsay, who is decent. We would have ZERO linebackers that can play the position. None. Barnett would be forced to play outside where he is not as good. Shep would get murdered if he played like he did this year, he had a lot of trouble shedding blocks and moving quickly to the ball at the LOS.

[Arkady Renko]

So your solution is to go into 2012 in a 4-3? We would have no DEs unless you count Chris Kelsay, who is decent. We would have ZERO linebackers that can play the position. None. Barnett would be forced to play outside where he is not as good. Shep would get murdered if he played like he did this year, he had a lot of trouble shedding blocks and moving quickly to the ball at the LOS.

 

You may have a point, but where are people lining up in the hybrid? How is that much different than a full-fledged 4-3?

[NoSaint]

I forgot, you're the guy who wants the 4 year rebuild. The 49ers and Bengals don't think it takes that long.

 

The niners have been rebuilding for nearly a decade. They have much more talent then us going into this year. When a good coach puts San Diego in the playoffs will we hear about there one year turnaround?

[MDH]

I forgot, you're the guy who wants the 4 year rebuild. The 49ers and Bengals don't think it takes that long.

 

Not that I disagree with your general statement but those weren't the best examples. The Bengles have 3 winning seasons (including this one) in the past 20 years - not exactly known for the "quick fix." The 49ers aren't much better as this is there first winning season in 10 years.

[RealityCheck]

I forgot, you're the guy who wants the 4 year rebuild. The 49ers and Bengals don't think it takes that long.

You are right, they would say it takes a lot longer than 4 years.

[KOKBILLS]

 

 

 

JoeB_WGR Joe Buscaglia

Gailey says they'll re-evaluate doing a 4-3 vs. the 3-4 in the offseason. #Bills

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing the 4-3 is going to be back in Buffalo...Assuming KW is back at 100% health...I just think the 4-3 matches our personnel right now MUCH better as far as the front 7 is concerned (yes I know we'll still need OLB's)...Dareus should be an absolute beast as a 4-3 DT....

[Brandon]

You may have a point, but where are people lining up in the hybrid? How is that much different than a full-fledged 4-3?

 

Lets assume that's the case. How well is the hybrid D working? Not well, obviously.

 

They don't have the talent to run a 4-3 or a 3-4 effectively at this point, but they've been gearing their roster towards a 3-4, so they may as well continue and fill the gaping holes at OLB. If they do that, combined with another offseason of development for the guys they've drafted the last two years, they could very well turn out to be a decent defense next year.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with the 3-4.

[Bob in STL]

The move is not a surprise, lots of speculation the past few weeks.

 

It happened fast out of respect for Edwards as it provides him more time to evaluate opportunities for his next gig.

 

He was a young guy with limited NFL experience for a DC. He took a shot and it did not work out. I wish him the best.

[NoSaint]

Lets assume that's the case. How well is the hybrid D working? Not well, obviously.

 

They don't have the talent to run a 4-3 or a 3-4 effectively at this point, but they've been gearing their roster towards a 3-4, so they may as well continue and fill the gaping holes at OLB. If they do that, combined with another offseason of development for the guys they've drafted the last two years, they could very well turn out to be a decent defense next year.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with the 3-4.

 

I also enjoy that in discussing scheme no one has insights to blitzing vs rushing the down men or zone vs man, where your blitzes might come from, gap assignments on the line.... Just 34 or 43 and since we have two good tackles we must run a 43.

[BringMe]

If we move back to the 4-3 I think it will be interesting to see where merriman plays. He is still under contract and I believe he can still play

[Ted William's frozen head]

Addition by subtraction....

[Kelly the Dog]

You may have a point, but where are people lining up in the hybrid? How is that much different than a full-fledged 4-3?

If you draft for a 3-4 and get a beast OLB who can rush to passer to some extent, plus try to sign a starter or situational DE that can rush the passer a little, you go into the season with a 3-4 lineup of Williams-Dareus-FA or Edwards, backed by Barnett and Sheppard in the middle, and #1 pick on the outside, probably with Merriman or Kelsay. The backfield stays the same either way. If Williams is 100% and the rookie or FA signing is decent, we could expect them to be a middle of the road defense, maybe pretty good if Williams returns to form (he was never healthy), the rookie is decent to good, and Sheppard makes some strides. When they play 3-4, you have Kelsay-Williams-Dareus-FA or Spencer Johnson. The rookie OLB would likely be one outside with Barnett on the other. The MLB would be hard but it wouldn't be hard to find a veteran FA to play some snaps and try to teach Sheppard to play the position. One of the keys either way is if Sheppard makes a jump. He got no training camp and was hurt early so he never really had a chance but he has some talent. He didn't play well though when he was in, but I am giving him a pass for this year. He may have to show a lot more.

 

With Williams and Merriman in there this year, one one leg (and Merriman with one shoulder too) we really were not that bad. Sure we gave up some yards but we made plays, had a lot of smarts, the other teams concentrated on Williams and Merriman like they should have and it allowed all of the other guys to take chances when available and they made plays. It was a makeshift D with a crappy coach and three rookies and terrible play by CBs but we were pretty good. I think people REALLY under-estimate the affect that gimpy Kyle and gimpy Shawne had on the defense even though they were not on the stat sheet. It's no surprise whatsoever the team and especially defense collapsed when they went out.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[C.Biscuit97]

Wanny's resume:

 

16 years in the pros, 8 top 10 defenses and 5 top 5 ones. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/WannDa0.htm He may not be the best head coach ever (though he did take multiple teams to the playoffs and Pitt to a BCS bowl so he wasn't that bad). But he is a very good defensive coach. But I guess he's isn't a flashy hire.

 

So you can do a million times worse than Wanny. I like Williams and Dareus better as 4-3 DTs anyways. IMO, since everyone runs the 3-4, running the 4-3 is an advantage in drafting (not as much competition for certain players) and teams having to prepare. My main concern will be him adjusting to the amount of spread offenses there are now.

 

As for Edwards, I hoped for the best but he was over his head. The 4th down corner blitz against the Jets in the 2nd game sealed it for me. Best of luck to him. Maybe the Florida DC job is still open.

[purple haze]

Bills should have never switched to the 3-4 in the first place. They need to stop chasing the next big thing. The move to the 3-4 is on Gailey although he had plenty of support from fans at the time.

 

Nothing wrong with switching to the 34 defense at all. The 43 players they had weren't good enough. The defense needed upgrading and still does. Anyway, they have been playing a multiple front defense the entire season with a lot of 43 looks. It's not a big deal like folks are trying to make it out to be. It's not about

the scheme. It's about the players. The Bills D stunk whatever front they played because they didn't have enough good players to pass rush. And if they don't get some players who can do that we will be here next season talking about Wanny should be fired.

Edited January 2, 2012 by purple haze

[San-O]

So your solution is to go into 2012 in a 4-3? We would have no DEs unless you count Chris Kelsay, who is decent. We would have ZERO linebackers that can play the position. None. Barnett would be forced to play outside where he is not as good. Shep would get murdered if he played like he did this year, he had a lot of trouble shedding blocks and moving quickly to the ball at the LOS.

 

 

You can't count on Merriman or Kelsay. You can draft a prototype pass rushing RDE, I hope.

 

The Bills either can't coach the hybrid, or select players for it, or both. It's just not working, and it's been two years already.

 

Also, I don't see how anyone can justify staying with a system that doesn't work when the personnel can't play it anyhow.

[frogger]

With the increase of teams using the 3-4, switching to the 4-3 makes sense. The RE needs to be addressed round one or two. Love the move, best of luck to Edwards.

[VanCity]

Not a surprise, but still a positive move IMHO. I suspect 4-3 is the right move. We have ILB's that can play the MLB (Shepp and Barnett) and OLB's more suited to the DE (Kelsay, Carrington). Our NT's (Williams or Dareus) are both DT's and line-up better in a 4-3 front. We can now select Upshaw and complete that front 7 quite handily. The DB's were less of an issue than the pass rush was, so I don't see that being a first round need unless a true star (Claiborne or Kirkpatrick, who should and will both be gone 3 or 4 spots ahead of 10) is there. Would love to go with a top WR, but the needs on D still trump the needs on O.

Edited January 2, 2012 by VanCity

[MDH]

Nothing wrong with switching to the 34 defense at all. The 43 players they had weren't good enough. The defense needed upgrading and still does. Anyway, they have been playing a multiple front defense the entire season with a lot of 43 looks. It's not a big deal like folks are trying to make it out to be. It's not about

the scheme. It's about the players. The Bills D stunk whatever front they played because they didn't have enough good players to pass rush. And if they don't get some players who can do that we will be here next season talking about Wanny should be fired.

 

When the weakest part of your entire team - both in terms of starters and in depth - are your LBs, switching to the 3-4 isn't a wise move. Coaches shouldn't be looking for ways of getting more of your worst players on the field...

[NoSaint]

Wanny's resume:

 

16 years in the pros, 8 top 10 defenses and 5 top 5 ones. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/WannDa0.htm He may not be the best head coach ever (though he did take multiple teams to the playoffs and Pitt to a BCS bowl so he wasn't that bad). But he is a very good defensive coach. But I guess he's isn't a flashy hire.

 

So you can do a million times worse than Wanny. I like Williams and Dareus better as 4-3 DTs anyways. IMO, since everyone runs the 3-4, running the 4-3 is an advantage in drafting (not as much competition for certain players) and teams having to prepare. My main concern will be him adjusting to the amount of spread offenses there are now.

 

As for Edwards, I hoped for the best but he was over his head. The 4th down corner blitz against the Jets in the 2nd game sealed it for me. Best of luck to him. Maybe the Florida DC job is still open.

 

 

More than rankings I still want to see some sort of scheme breakdown. I know he runs a 43 but his Dallas days predate a lot of my getting the real nuts and bolts of scheme in the NFL. What type of 43 is he known for? Anyone?

[missthe kgun]

Good 1st move, shows we aren't gonna keep accepting rubbish.

 

Chan can't be far behind (Off with his head).

 

lol

[C.Biscuit97]

More than rankings I still want to see some sort of scheme breakdown. I know he runs a 43 but his Dallas days predate a lot of my getting the real nuts and bolts of scheme in the NFL. What type of 43 is he known for? Anyone?

 

Ask and you shall receive:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-7606072

 

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011/7/1/2251963/best-of-the-best-cowboys-defensive-schemes

 

 

Johnson took over as the franchise's second head coach in 1989 and brought Dave Wannstedt with him from the University of Miami. Following in the tradition of his 'The U' defenses, Johnson molded the Cowboys defense on speed and quickness. Instead of being a read and react defense, all four lineman were charged with penetrating through the trench and getting into the offensive backfield.

 

Notes on the 4-3 Over Defense: (from ezarticles.com)

 

In the Over front, Weak End will align in a 5-technique, that is outside shoulder of the Offensive Tackle. The Strong End will align in a 9-technique, outside shade of the Tight End. The weak Defensive Tackle (we call him the Nose) aligns in a Weak Shade, or shaded weak on the Center. The strong Defensive Tackle will align in a strong 3-technique, outside shade of the Guard. In our base defense, these defenders are gap-responsible. The 3-technique handles B-gap strong, while the Nose takes A-gap weak. The ends are responsible for C gap weak and D gap strong. We do NOT use the Ends for contain! They are spill players in our aggressive style of defense.

[hondo in seattle]

If Wanny is such a defensive genius, then why didn't Edwards make better use of him and take his advice?

 

If Edwards was utilizing Wanny's advice and experience, why should we expect anything better with Wanny as DC?

 

If Wanny is qualified to run a D, why couldn't he do it through Edwards? (Remember, as Assistant Head Coach, Wanny outranked Edwards).

 

I'm happy to see Edwards get replaced. His results over the past two years have been abysmal. It makes me wonder what Gailey saw in him to give him the gig in the first place. And I wish I knew more about the decision to understand why Gailey thinks Wanny will do better without Edwards around.

 

One optimistic note: Wannstedt was out of the NFL for a while and had this year to reacquaint himself. Theoretically, he'll be more on top of current trends, schemes and personnel next year.

[truth on hold]

yeah, the disasterous move to 3-4 was all Edwards fault. Had nothing to do w/ Chans decision in the first place knowing we had 4-3 personel. So the answer is replacing him with a 4-3 defense coach? lol @ Chan the politician

[C.Biscuit97]

If Wanny is such a defensive genius, then why didn't Edwards make better use of him and take his advice?

 

If Edwards was utilizing Wanny's advice and experience, why should we expect anything better with Wanny as DC?

 

If Wanny is qualified to run a D, why couldn't he do it through Edwards? (Remember, as Assistant Head Coach, Wanny outranked Edwards).

 

I'm happy to see Edwards get replaced. His results over the past two years have been abysmal. It makes me wonder what Gailey saw in him to give him the gig in the first place. And I wish I knew more about the decision to understand why Gailey thinks Wanny will do better without Edwards around.

 

One optimistic note: Wannstedt was out of the NFL for a while and had this year to reacquaint himself. Theoretically, he'll be more on top of current trends, schemes and personnel next year.

 

Hard to really answer these questions for sure but I think it was a very awkward situation. The writing was on the wall for Edwards when DW was hired but he still was the DC. I think DW was more of an advisor and didn't want to step on toes. Plus given that it was 3-4, it was not Dw's specialty. I guess we'll have more answers next year.

[missthe kgun]

Chan should be on the chop block too!!!

 

No more accepting rubbish!!!

 

Go Bills!!!