Dorkington Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 2010 Rush Defense YPA 4.8 2011 Rush Defense YPA 4.5 That's with an addition of a much better MLB and a talented rookie MLB, and stronger OLBs. We added Dareus, got rid of Stroud. I really don't see how Dareus is "great" for .3 YPA improvement, especially with all of the other on-paper improvements we supposedly have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 You are an idiot! It's funny how you guys are getting mad at me and calling me an idiot while not disputing my argument that he's made no impact on this team. Instead of telling me he really has had an impact and proving me wrong, I'm getting reasons (excuses?) why he hasn't made an impact. Which in essence is an admission that he hasn't made an impact. I'm not trashing him, I'm just telling it like it is right now. He absolutely could be the type that takes a year or two to become great, but I'm seeing an average guy right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Newton = huge impact Miller = huge impact Dareus = no impact Green = huge impact Let's be honest, so far he's been just an average player showing little evidence that he will ever become great. Try watching him play, he gets double teamed on every single snap - every single snap. If we had anybody else on the D who could take advantage of this you might notice his contribution more. But if you're simply looking for sacks, tackles and the like then no, he doesn't do a thing. He makes space for others to make the plays, unfortunately our LB corps is abismal. This is exactly what Ngata does for Baltimore the difference being that they have LBs who flow to the play and fill gaps while we only have one LB who is of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picnic Table F'er Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I don't know why Dareus gets such a pass, drafted third and he's made very little impact this year. Hopefully he improves... but as of right now, I haven't been blown away. Get some eyeballs, he played very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Get some eyeballs, he played very good. I have watched every game this year. I stand by my opinion. Again, I simply don't think he's great. I'm not calling him bad, or for him to be cut, or claiming he's a bust. I hope he improves and he stays around for a long, long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Newton = huge impact Miller = huge impact Dareus = no impact Green = huge impact Let's be honest, so far he's been just an average player showing little evidence that he will ever become great. Newton = shiny sports car Miller = flashy sack master.....still iffy in run support Dareus = Ron stopper....foundation guy (WHY IS IT SO FRIGGEN HARD TO UNDERSTAND THIS) we are in fact stopping the run Green = flashy sports car For christ sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 2010 Rush Defense YPA 4.8 2011 Rush Defense YPA 4.5 That's with an addition of a much better MLB and a talented rookie MLB, and stronger OLBs. We added Dareus, got rid of Stroud. I really don't see how Dareus is "great" for .3 YPA improvement, especially with all of the other on-paper improvements we supposedly have. This is nitpicking stats, which anyone can do. You fail to mention that the Bills had BY FAR the most rushing attempts against (571), last year. Because our rush defense was so bad, we had the second fewest passing attempts against us (473). That wasnt due to our incredible pass rush, or our scary secondary. It was because teams didnt need to pass against us. They just handed it off and pounded us into submission on the ground. They were able to control the game at will. That is NOT the case anymore. We are now 16th in rushing attempts against, and 14th in passing attempts. We have forced our opponents into having to be more balanced. We successfully stopped the 2nd (Philly) and 4th (Oakland) best Rushing Offenses. But yeah, "Yards per Attempt" tell the whole story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 But yeah, "Yards per Attempt" tell the whole story... And just to add to your stats, here is how our run defense looks 2010 - 169.6 yards/game 2011 (to date) - 124 yards/game Fairly sizeable difference. I am not attributing this all to Dareus but if he was not playing pretty well, we would be only a tad lower than the 2010 number due to the loss of Kyle Williams and addition of Barnett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) And just to add to your stats, here is how our run defense looks 2010 - 169.6 yards/game 2011 (to date) - 124 yards/game Fairly sizeable difference. I am not attributing this all to Dareus but if he was not playing pretty well, we would be only a tad lower than the 2010 number due to the loss of Kyle Williams and addition of Barnett. Well, we can say for certain that the improvement is not due to the scheme and coaching! Edited November 29, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 First, i am suprised that MD is being called out at all. Regardless of what his perecieved or statistical play has amounted to. Just saying something negative about our rookie is just horrible fandom. Really shameful actually. MR. Dareus's play should be respected. And discussed for sure as to how he could improve. But to just say something hurtful like that is awful. just because he was ready to puke before the game and was less then usual. I will restrain from ranting about how this boy might well be a Major part of our identity moving forward Next thing you guys will want to trade Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Newton = huge impact Miller = huge impact Dareus = no impact Green = huge impact Let's be honest, so far he's been just an average player showing little evidence that he will ever become great. Well come on let's be honest here & see the forest for the trees !! Who else now that Williams is gone do the opponents really have to worry about as a pass rush threat ??? WELL !!!!!!! That's right take away Williams , Merriman , & put Spencer Johnson at LB (Stupid) because he did pretty well at DE lineman then they can double Dareus & worry about him & him alone CUT THE GUY SOME FREAKIN SLACK !! You guys only see what you want & screw the obvious man ingrates i swear !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He's no Warren Sapp, that's for sure. Wow nothing like comparing him to one of the greats! Jshhh we should just cut him now. Every team has atleast 1 or 2 players on Warren Sapp's level @DT. Now go watch cartoons, and look at the stats from the game later so you can complain when a player doesn't show up on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 DTs and DEs generally don't come right in and dominate (Suh is an exception) of course neither do WRs but AJ Green has looked great from the start. Yep. You can't really expect a 22 year old DT to come right into the NFL and be a dominant player against guys who are several years older and who have had that much more time in a pro strength and conditioning program. Its rarely going to happen. Give him at least until the end of year three. Let me remind everyone that Ted Washington was generally considered to be a disappointment through his first four seasons with SF and Denver. We all know how that one turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yep. You can't really expect a 22 year old DT to come right into the NFL and be a dominant player against guys who are several years older and who have had that much more time in a pro strength and conditioning program. Its rarely going to happen. Give him at least until the end of year three. Let me remind everyone that Ted Washington was generally considered to be a disappointment through his first four seasons with SF and Denver. We all know how that one turned out. Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Miller was straight up BENCHED earlier this season. Since then, he has really turned on. And yes, I used "invisible" just like people saying Dareus has been "invisible". My point is that both are contributing, only more so when the star veteran is back in the lineup. Miller's limited success without Dumervil mirrors Dareus's limited success without Williams. excellent points. everyone saw the Denver Jets game and that was Millers best game by far. If they'd have played the Redskins Toronto game on Monday night the whole country would have been saying they should have drafted big 99. I love the guy, he's leveled out a little the past three road games starting with Dallas. They handled him pretty well with single "ish" blocking in the middle and so did Miami. I use that term "singleish" because offensive guards always seem to bounce blocks around and help the center. If the draft were tomorrow I would take him again at three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) HAVE PEOPLE LOST THEIR F-ING MINDS?!?!?!?!?!?! Dareus has been GREAT for a rookie playing without a lot of help. Put him in a 4-3 next to a healthy Kyle Williams and everyone would be talking about him as one of the best in the league. EVERY week there is another report by some analyst talking about how good Dareus has been this year and how he is amazing in the Bills 3-4. Just tonight I was reading this from McShay: "Dareus has lived up to the expectations that come with being the top overall prospect on our board. The 340-pounder's versatility as a two-gap defender has been a perfect fit in Buffalo's 3-4 scheme, and he's been productive with 29 total tackles as well as 3.5 sacks and a fumble recovery." This sentiment has been echoed so many times, from so many national sources, it is shocking that there are so many on this board who feel the exact opposite. Watch a Patriots game...tell me what more Wilfork is doing that Dareus isn't or a Packer game with Raji. If you can't appreciate what Dareus brings to the table and what an excellent pick he was, you are simply an awful judge of talent. Dareus: 29 Tackles, 3.5 Sacks, 2 Pass Blocks Pro Bowl NTs: Wilfork: 27 Tackles, 1.5 Sacks, 3 Pass Blocks, 2 INTs BJ Raji: 17 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 2 Pass Blocks The ONLY guy clearly out performing Dareus is a perenial pro-bowler who will be a consensus All-Pro this year: Ngata: 28 Tackles, 5 Sacks, 2 FFs, 2 Pass Blocks Edited November 30, 2011 by DC Grid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I don't know why Dareus gets such a pass, drafted third and he's made very little impact this year. Hopefully he improves... but as of right now, I haven't been blown away. watch again he's double 90% of the time, and why wouldnt you there is no one else there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) He reminds me of Raji. Similiar size and strengths. I think he has played well this year but his numbers dont show it. I expect his numbers and play to improve next year, just like Raji's did in his second year. Edited November 30, 2011 by Thoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He needs kyle williams in there with him!!!! They need a true NT between Williams and Dareus. Maybe that is Heard, I don't know. Then all we need is a great ROLB. Chris Kelsay and Nick Barnett have been playing very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Suh - 31 tackles ... 22 solo ... 3 tackles for loss ...3 sacks ... 1 passes defended ... 1 int... Dareus - 29 tackles ...22 solo ... 2 tackle for loss ... 3.5 sacks ... 2 passes defended....0 ints Just saying .... he should be a pro-bowler based on the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I watched the Jets game and noticed that Dareus did not start. Instead heard started. Any thought in why? I think Dareus came back to the lineup in the second quarter. I could be wrong, but Heard held his ground, and it might be a good idea to put Heard and Dareus together at DT positions. Go BIlls. Or keep Heard at nose and Dareus at End where they belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Newton = huge impact Miller = huge impact Dareus = no impact Green = huge impact Let's be honest, so far he's been just an average player showing little evidence that he will ever become great. Let's be honest. He's a rookie on the Defensive Line. Did you notice that when Kyle Williams was healthy our pass rush was pretty impressive? I may be wrong, however I believe that is the case because opposing teams had to account for both of them, not double team one player or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He was sick +1. Let it go. this kid is going to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Week 3, Bills Pats. 4th quarter Dareus pass rush penetrates pocket, Brady pass goes off his helmet to Florence who runs it in for a 31-24 lead. In the end we win breaking that huge long losing streak That play alone makes his season a success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Week 3, Bills Pats. 4th quarter Dareus pass rush penetrates pocket, Brady pass goes off his helmet to Florence who runs it in for a 31-24 lead. In the end we win breaking that huge long losing streak That play alone makes his season a success I wasn't ripping him, I was just expecting a regular and sustained occurrence of disruption. When I say no impact, I mean that he's shown the same amount of impact as an average defender. Average players make great plays every now and then too. Dareus needs to start imploding plays and imposing his will on a more regular occurrence. Warren Sapp was double and triple teamed too. We need Dareus needs to become a dominating star, not simply a space taker-upper. Since Williams is out, so to will the jury till the 2012 season. I never said he won't become great, just that he isn't right now for whatever the reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I wasn't ripping him, I was just expecting a regular and sustained occurrence of disruption. When I say no impact, I mean that he's shown the same amount of impact as an average defender. Average players make great plays every now and then too. Dareus needs to start imploding plays and imposing his will on a more regular occurrence. Warren Sapp was double and triple teamed too. We need Dareus needs to become a dominating star, not simply a space taker-upper. Since Williams is out, so to will the jury till the 2012 season. I never said he won't become great, just that he isn't right now for whatever the reasons. Warren Sapp is a poor comparison - all his success was as an "under" 3-technique DT in a Tampa 2 scheme. Fundamentally different position from what Dareus plays: http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09bramel_idpguide.php Scroll to "How the "Under" Front Made Warren Sapp a Star" - also remember how big a flop he was in Oakland, who played a 3-4. Sapp was very very good, but interior D-lineman will only put up those kind of sack or tackle for loss numbers in a scheme that makes them hard to double-team. Note that Ndamakong Suh also plays in a similar role, and Nick Fairley did in college as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Newton = shiny sports car Miller = flashy sack master.....still iffy in run support Dareus = Ron stopper....foundation guy (WHY IS IT SO FRIGGEN HARD TO UNDERSTAND THIS) we are in fact stopping the run Green = flashy sports car For christ sake Someone missed the part where Cam Newton was "leading" his team to a 3-8 record, by the way. I think the kid is good, but it's just one example of where a single player can't do it all. Someone also missed the wisdom in looking at the first season of a guy like Bruce Smith on a bad team. NEWS FLASH: The Bills need PLAYER(S), with a capital S. They need more talent. 1BF and co want to see this thing torn to the ground again when we are just beginning to assemble NFL talent and need to add to it with more starters and NFL depth. Because somehow, looking at what's going on in the NFC West tells us something about coaching, and looking at what other rookies are doing in completely different situations tells us everything about our rookies. Dareus will be fine and I am happy with what he's doing as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I watched the Jets game and noticed that Dareus did not start. Instead heard started. Any thought in why? I think Dareus came back to the lineup in the second quarter. I could be wrong, but Heard held his ground, and it might be a good idea to put Heard and Dareus together at DT positions. Go BIlls. Good question and good post, when I first read the subject line it came into my eyes as "Dareus's Great Butt" Hey, change two letters and there ya are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Let's be honest. He's a rookie on the Defensive Line. Did you notice that when Kyle Williams was healthy our pass rush was pretty impressive? I didn't, actually. Giving the benefit of the doubt, Kyle Williams may have been playing hurt all season. But even with Williams and Merriman in there early in the season, our pass rush has consistently made average QB like Jason Campbell and rookies like Andy Dalton look top-of-the-league. I will grant that QB only had time to scan through their progressions and throw completions at that point in the season. The current state of affairs where enemy QB have time to dial up Jimmy Jones, receive delivery, and eat half a sandwich before scanning their progressions and throwing completions, only occurred when Merriman and Williams went out The point is: our D was bottom of the league BEFORE the starters went out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Right now we have very little production on defense. There are glimmers from the youngters. Merriman was playing hurt, Williams was playing hurt, and now its seems Troup (a true NT) has been playing hurt. So we have not seen our potential by any means. Oh yes dont forget Dareus was playing injured too. We can talk about depth etc but for now my point should be that we have not fielded a healthy front seven since preseason. I just dont think its very fair to grade out these guys right now. Yes i am aware thats part of the game, but have not had a solid group to even set the bar yet! Let me point to last weeks secondary play. We had miscommunications and rookie errors that probably was the real cause of our loss. But they know what they did wrong and the young guys did play mighty hard all game. Lets agree MD is not as outstanding as i expected him to be this season. I revert to a Buffalo favorite " wait till next year " but i really feel that. Couple more key players on that side of the ball and pray for health and continue developing depth, maintain fundamentals and consistent coaching for another season and we really might have something starting here. Go Bills! A lot of chatter on the OP has been good reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 This is nitpicking stats, which anyone can do. You fail to mention that the Bills had BY FAR the most rushing attempts against (571), last year. Because our rush defense was so bad, we had the second fewest passing attempts against us (473). That wasnt due to our incredible pass rush, or our scary secondary. It was because teams didnt need to pass against us. They just handed it off and pounded us into submission on the ground. They were able to control the game at will. That is NOT the case anymore. We are now 16th in rushing attempts against, and 14th in passing attempts. We have forced our opponents into having to be more balanced. We successfully stopped the 2nd (Philly) and 4th (Oakland) best Rushing Offenses. But yeah, "Yards per Attempt" tell the whole story... Hey, lets hold the eye rolling for someone else, ok? You can call it nitpicking, I call it filling in the story. If you think Dareus has been "great", then fine, I agree to disagree. You guys act like I'm saying he's a bust. I'm just saying, as a *rookie* he hasn't had a huge impact (again, imo) so far. As others have said, players similar to him came into to their own later in their careers. I hope Dareus improves and becomes a stellar player. But right now? I don't see much difference between him and last years players or this years backups. I hope he becomes a disruptive force on a regular basis. I hope he becomes a perennial pro bowler. Right now, he's not at that point. Can we at least agree on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) This is nitpicking stats, which anyone can do. You fail to mention that the Bills had BY FAR the most rushing attempts against (571), last year. Because our rush defense was so bad, we had the second fewest passing attempts against us (473). That wasnt due to our incredible pass rush, or our scary secondary. It was because teams didnt need to pass against us. They just handed it off and pounded us into submission on the ground. They were able to control the game at will. That is NOT the case anymore. We are now 16th in rushing attempts against, and 14th in passing attempts. We have forced our opponents into having to be more balanced. We successfully stopped the 2nd (Philly) and 4th (Oakland) best Rushing Offenses. But yeah, "Yards per Attempt" tell the whole story... There are two possible reasons why teams are passing the ball against us more often this year than had been the case last year: 1) The run defense has gotten better, forcing teams to pass. 2) The pass defense has gotten worse, rewarding teams for passing. With the injuries to Bills' DBs, and with guys like McGee and Florence not getting any younger, this year's Bills pass defense isn't exactly keeping offensive coordinators up at night. I suspect that teams are passing more often because of both 1) and 2). I also fee that the best single measure of the Bills' run defense is yards per carry. (This is for the same reason that you evaluate a RB by his yards per carry, not by how many rushing attempts he had.) The fact that the Bills' run defense only improved by 0.3 yards per carry isn't an inditement of Darius. For one thing, Kyle Williams has been out much of the year. Also, while Donte Whitner was highly overrated and a liability in pass coverage, he was better than George Wilson at stopping the run. It's also possible that the Bills' defensive play calling has changed to increase the emphasis on pass defense while decreasing the emphasis on run defense. Finally, you have the fact that guys who have absolutely no business whatsoever playing OLB--such as Spencer Johnson--are nevertheless lined up there. Stuff like that has to take a toll on the Bills' rushing defense. Edited December 1, 2011 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's interesting to re-confirm year after year how few football fans really have any clue what they are seeing or talking about when it comes to evaluating play away from the ball. If I can help just a little for a moment.... You notice how when teams run up the middle on a 1st or 2nd down (non-nickle or dime downs) against the Bills in 2011, that they basically get nowhere? That's Dareus. You notice on those other plays when our whole D- line gets pushed back except for one guy? That guy is Dareus. He's been very good. Oh that at good NT's and 3-4 DE's generally make between 0 and 2 tackles per game... so it's easy to see where a lot of this stems from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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