Could this really happen?

[Captain Hindsight]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/

 

 

I'm not sure how likely this is but i felt like i needed to be posted. What would your reaction be if this were to happen? I for one would be a) shocked and b) extremely angry that it would have to come to something like this

[Bangarang]

I certainly hope not.

[Frostbelt City]

if that happens i will be a full time Sabres fan

[dayman]

This will never happen. At least IMO, no way. It won't come to this but if there is a contingent of owners that want it...there will be some who refuse and there will not be unity to completely shut down.

[saundena]

Well, if the season was canceled, we would draft at 3 next year! Carolina already as 2 QB's which means we would only have to compete with Denver if we wanted Luck-- That is if he is still considered the BEST of the best!

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I really hope it does not happen, but I am sure the NFL is looking at labor disputes in other major american sports leagues, like the NHL which did shut down for an entire year in order to get the players to agree to the owners desires. That option was what the NHL guys felt had to be done in order to get their league where they wanted it to be, so they did it. The sport suffered, but its back and its doing well. I know I was into the Sabres series a few weeks ago. I think it is a viable option for the league, and I can see it happening. I really hope it doesn't, but it just might.

 

Ps. I dont give one iOda about getting Andrew Luck. That is 12 months away. Can we get through this coming season (hopefully) before we start yelling for Andrew Luck? Seriously.

[Meathead]

im not an expert on whats going on but as far as i can tell the last deal the owners offered was quite fair

 

lets also remember the owners got raped last time around - albeit their own fault for not listening to ralph but still they got screwed

 

finally lets remember the players want full access to financials of the teams. so really they want to take pretty much everything they can and leave the owners with very little actual control over what is going on

 

so if im an owner i probably feel like im getting painted into a very undesireable corner. at some point you just say well **** if this is the way things are gonna be shoved down my throat then i can just shutter the windows and be kept warm by snuggling up to the many millions i already have. fk the players im going yachting

 

and i cant say i entirely blame them

[yungmack]

im not an expert on whats going on but as far as i can tell the last deal the owners offered was quite fair

 

lets also remember the owners got raped last time around - albeit their own fault for not listening to ralph but still they got screwed

 

finally lets remember the players want full access to financials of the teams. so really they want to take pretty much everything they can and leave the owners with very little actual control over what is going on

 

so if im an owner i probably feel like im getting painted into a very undesireable corner. at some point you just say well **** if this is the way things are gonna be shoved down my throat then i can just shutter the windows and be kept warm by snuggling up to the many millions i already have. fk the players im going yachting

 

and i cant say i entirely blame them

Way to state your case, Mr. Wilson. Glad to see you've been secretly dropping in on TSW. As long as I have your attention, I'd like to ask why you don't sell the team before you croak.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Right now I'm kind of hiding my head in the sand as far as that outcome is concerned.

 

Or put

[Guest three3]

im not an expert on whats going on but as far as i can tell the last deal the owners offered was quite fair

 

lets also remember the owners got raped last time around - albeit their own fault for not listening to ralph but still they got screwed

 

finally lets remember the players want full access to financials of the teams. so really they want to take pretty much everything they can and leave the owners with very little actual control over what is going on

 

so if im an owner i probably feel like im getting painted into a very undesireable corner. at some point you just say well **** if this is the way things are gonna be shoved down my throat then i can just shutter the windows and be kept warm by snuggling up to the many millions i already have. fk the players im going yachting

 

and i cant say i entirely blame them

 

amazing. this has to be the worst take i've ever read on a message board

[fridge]

If you care about the logistics of the lockout, you're not a real fan.

[Munch]

amazing. this has to be the worst take i've ever read on a message board

 

While I would not want this to happen at all, why is it the worst take youve ever read?

[CodeMonkey]

While I would not want this to happen at all, why is it the worst take youve ever read?

Because he is pro-player.

[BuffaloBill]

While I would not want this to happen at all, why is it the worst take youve ever read?

 

 

I was wondering the same thing myself.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Well, if the season was canceled, we would draft at 3 next year!

 

? is this correct? I thought the draft order would be decided by lottery?

 

I really feel the "law of unintended consequences" would be in play if the owners would make this decision.

[Special K]

Well, if the season was canceled, we would draft at 3 next year! Carolina already as 2 QB's which means we would only have to compete with Denver if we wanted Luck-- That is if he is still considered the BEST of the best!

 

If there is no season at all this year, what happens to the players who were drafted this year?

 

Could they possibly go back into the next draft if teams are unable to sign them for an entire year?

[K Gun Special]

If there is no season at all this year, what happens to the players who were drafted this year?

 

Could they possibly go back into the next draft if teams are unable to sign them for an entire year?

 

 

my guess is the rights would be retained for whenever there is a season.

[Guest three3]

as our friend hpalarm (sp?) so eloquently stated, the owners are the biggest overhead expense that the players have.

[KD in CA]

So it's like the owners would decertify to avoid legal obligations. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?

[dayman]

as our friend hpalarm (sp?) so eloquently stated, the owners are the biggest overhead expense that the players have.

 

And vice versa.

[26TrapDraw]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/

 

 

I'm not sure how likely this is but i felt like i needed to be posted. What would your reaction be if this were to happen? I for one would be a) shocked and b) extremely angry that it would have to come to something like this

 

I have to say, I am firmly with the owners on this. I know its not the sheik decision but follow me here. How do the players have the right to dictate their terms to the owners? In any other company or business do you ever see this happening or employees asking their employers/owners to open their books? Who the F**k do the players think they are?? The owners should play hard ball with the NFLPA. I would actually like to see them shut down permanently and restructure as a new league. How long do you think it would take for the owners to find comparable talent to put on the field? Not long and then the greedy players can twist in the breeze looking for work. It was the owners and league not the players who have made the NFL what it is today. Thats just one man's humble opinion

Edited May 9, 2011 by LVBillsBackr

[KD in CA]

as our friend hpalarm (sp?) so eloquently stated, the owners are the biggest overhead expense that the players have.

 

A statement so dumb, only someone like you could repeat it.

 

If the owners are such obstacles, why don't the players on each team pool their money, buy them out and keep it all for themselves? Coming up with $1B or so per team should be a snap. Ditto with running the teams and the league.

[Guest three3]

A statement so dumb, only someone like you could repeat it.

 

If the owners are such obstacles, why don't the players on each team pool their money, buy them out and keep it all for themselves? Coming up with $1B or so per team should be a snap. Ditto with running the teams and the league.

 

a new league owned by the players and/or fans is inevitable. we can't wait for the day when the ralph wilsons are completely out of the picture. remind me, when was the last time ralph wilson went over the middle to catch a pass and suffered a concussion. remind me, without the NFL players what kind of football league can the current owners present to the fans? the players hold ALL the cards

[Malazan]

profootballtalk.com should be banned

[Guest three3]

profootballtalk.com should be banned

 

florio is such a tool, i stopped going to his site years ago

[Mr_Blizzard]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/

 

 

I'm not sure how likely this is but i felt like i needed to be posted. What would your reaction be if this were to happen? I for one would be a) shocked and b) extremely angry that it would have to come to something like this

 

Winters in WNY would suck even more...

[Fixxxer]

This is the owners saying: OK. Dee Smith take the ball and hide in the locker room, when you come back, you won't have the goalposts and turf to play the game.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

I have to say, I am firmly with the owners on this. I know its not the sheik decision but follow me here. How do the players have the right to dictate their terms to the owners? In any other company or business do you ever see this happening or employees asking their employers/owners to open their books? Who the F**k do the players think they are?? The owners should play hard ball with the NFLPA. I would actually like to see them shut down permanently and restructure as a new league. How long do you think it would take for the owners to find comparable talent to put on the field? Not long and then the greedy players can twist in the breeze looking for work. It was the owners and league not the players who have made the NFL what it is today. Thats just one man's humble opinion

[/quote

 

 

Aside from my inability to comprehend the amount of money that the players are making.. Your stand is exactly what the owners want the public to feel in each and every anti-union work force dispute that has ever happened in this country..

[26TrapDraw]

Aside from my inability to comprehend the amount of money that the players are making.. Your stand is exactly what the owners want the public to feel in each and every anti-union work force dispute that has ever happened in this country..

 

 

From what I have read,the package put together by the owners to the players seemed fair. I'm not a lawyer or claim to understand all the legality, but i believe the players think they are getting shafted...I don't think this is the case.So if i had to choose a side, I'd side with the owners in this situation based on what i have heard.

[Guest three3]

the fact that most fans have begun to switch to the owners' side of this conflict presents perfect symbolism for the rapid decline of this once great nation.

[NewEra]

I really hope it does not happen, but I am sure the NFL is looking at labor disputes in other major american sports leagues, like the NHL which did shut down for an entire year in order to get the players to agree to the owners desires. That option was what the NHL guys felt had to be done in order to get their league where they wanted it to be, so they did it. The sport suffered, but its back and its doing well. I know I was into the Sabres series a few weeks ago. I think it is a viable option for the league, and I can see it happening. I really hope it doesn't, but it just might.

 

Ps. I dont give one iOda about getting Andrew Luck. That is 12 months away. Can we get through this coming season (hopefully) before we start yelling for Andrew Luck? Seriously.

I agree, all the Andrew Luck talk less a few days removed from the draft is getting ridiculous. That being said, I would love to have the guy....I just don't see the need to talk about it all the time. I can't imagine the talk in week 4 if we're 0-4 or 1-3 and following each loss after that. Give it a rest please.

[Mark Long Beach]

the fact that most fans have begun to switch to the owners' side of this conflict presents perfect symbolism for the rapid decline of this once great nation.

 

Nope. I'd say it's the entitlement of the players and their union to take as much as they can get even at the expense of a company. See US car companies over the last 30 years.

[26TrapDraw]

Nope. I'd say it's the entitlement of the players and their union to take as much as they can get even at the expense of a company. See US car companies over the last 30 years.

 

+1 well said

[Spiderweb]

im not an expert on whats going on but as far as i can tell the last deal the owners offered was quite fair

 

lets also remember the owners got raped last time around - albeit their own fault for not listening to ralph but still they got screwed

 

finally lets remember the players want full access to financials of the teams. so really they want to take pretty much everything they can and leave the owners with very little actual control over what is going on

 

so if im an owner i probably feel like im getting painted into a very undesireable corner. at some point you just say well **** if this is the way things are gonna be shoved down my throat then i can just shutter the windows and be kept warm by snuggling up to the many millions i already have. fk the players im going yachting

 

and i cant say i entirely blame them

 

Preposterous and ridiculous. Sure, there are some owners who clearly are absurdly wealthy and with their fail safe TV deal that included money for them in the event of a lockout (why do you think they are so set on a lockout - no lockout, no fail-safe funds from the Networks), they have minimized their own personal losses in the event there's isn't a season. The owners worked on this a couple years back in planning for what is going on now. For this year, it's the players who will get hurt the worst financially and that's what the owners banked on.

 

Why do you, and many others, continue to berate the players for disbanding the NFLPA as a sham, while failing to mention or even acknowledge the lockout provisions the owners sought and received from the Networks years back? Your post is so much like what is reported on Fox, in that it conveniently left out key facts and data, so as to support your "opinion". If the lockout is allowed to stand, and I fear it will be, it will leave the owners in a position to continue their demands for more revenues not subject to any CBA, an 18 game schedule that only benefits them, a reduction in players salaries that will take them back to levels of 4-5 years ago, etc. Not one single item "improves" anything for the players, and they offer only relatively small incremental improvements for the retired players.

 

With that said, the players themselves, should seek greater benefits for retired players, well above the owners limited improvements they've offered. Sure, that too would reduce what they can get now, but do these guys think they will be playing forever? With careers as short as theirs, long term benefits should be of keen interest to them (not Manning or Brady, or similary wealthy players who don't need any help) as most won't be in the NFL but for a short while. Yet, the gimme now mentality of the owners and players isn't likely to produce real improvements for those players who have gone before.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I agree, all the Andrew Luck talk less a few days removed from the draft is getting ridiculous. That being said, I would love to have the guy....I just don't see the need to talk about it all the time. I can't imagine the talk in week 4 if we're 0-4 or 1-3 and following each loss after that. Give it a rest please.

Amen.

 

Nope. I'd say it's the entitlement of the players and their union to take as much as they can get even at the expense of a company. See US car companies over the last 30 years.

The car companies (Big 3) who since the early 70s have given American car buyers vehicles with poorer quality control, poorer safety features, uglier vehicles (Pacer, Gremlin, Aztec) and poorer gas mileage?

 

The car companies (Big 3) who ignored the poignant and profound lessons of the early 70s (oil embargo, spiraling gas crisis) who circumvented EPA mileage standards by leaping headfirst into the pickup truck and SUV loopholes instead of creating exciting, well-crafted automobiles which would always be sporty, safe, and fuel-efficient?

 

Those U.S. car companies?

 

The auto industry is yet another prime example of an American industry which has blamed workers wages for the mistakes made by management…a ridiculously overcompensated management.

 

Answer me this? Why do American Auto Execs make way more than their foreign counterparts…even as their companies are circling the drain?

 

And keep in mind the non-union auto workers have good wages and benefits. Why? Because without Unions to set standards for working men and women, non-union shops could pay their employees whatever the hell they wanted to. It's only when they finally crush the Unions that workers wages will fall and the working middle class will finally disappear completely.

Edited May 9, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Hplarrm]

A statement so dumb, only someone like you could repeat it.

 

If the owners are such obstacles, why don't the players on each team pool their money, buy them out and keep it all for themselves? Coming up with $1B or so per team should be a snap. Ditto with running the teams and the league.

If the owners were stupid enough to shut down the league, the reason the players would not pool their money to buy each team for a billion a piece is that they would not have to pay the owners a cent to set up their own league.

 

Why pay the owners a billion a piece for a non-operating entity. It would merely be another example of the current NFL owners being a cost while adding little or nothing to the product.

 

Right now arguably as the players are not being paid they are already FAs. No one disputes their rights to pursue other employment if they can get it right now, but employment options are few right now for pro football players. However as the lockout drags on players will be more willing to risk injuring their bodies, the only asset they have to get a little cash during the short period of time they are young (in fact the owners are counting on this calculus).

 

However, as time goes on the owners will have less legal and practical ability to stop the players from pursuing alternatives.

 

Any attempt to stop the players from organizing an alternative (that I call the NewFL) would be gone if the NFL officially closed its doors.

 

The players do not have as a goal likely the total elimination of the NFL, but if the NFL took the stupid action of elimination itself it would actually make the task of setting up an alternative much simpler.

 

As with most things the key is capital (in our society its the Golden Rule and he who has the gold rules.

 

If the owners killed themselves by closing down it would not take long for one of the following to step up to collect the billions the NFL owners would be walking away from.

 

1. The TV networks are the actual cash cow which pays the bills neither the current owners or players. With the NFL product gone an interesting race could quickly come together with an ad hoc coalition of networks might come together to form a true partnership with the players for them to divy up the billions they have already contracted to pay the NFL for a product which is not being delivered. It would be a hard thing to organize but the current owners have left them with billions of reasons to get their act together and even better there is not the cost drag of profits for the owners,

 

2. Other rich individuals are a possibility. The question is whether Pegula, Golisano, the Jacobs and their ilk can be found to front the money in exchange for 40% or so of $9 billion that the players would dictate as the new owner share of total receipts. If there are three options in a berg like Buffalo I am confident that replacement caputal for the current owners can be found,

 

3. Municipalities in the form of setting up public authorities using either the current working Green Bay Packers model or something new where the actual government to buy a league. A tough thing to organize but my bet is that if you took a vote in WNY folks would actually gladly raise local taxes to buy the Bills. Again it would be great if the current owners unilaterally took themselves out of the picture by closing up shop as a few hundred mill would be sufficient to set new franchise with no need to pay anything to the existing owners.

 

4. The players themselves could fund this thing as salaries the past decade gave gone way up.

 

5, Something I have not even thought of capitalize this process.

 

The current owners have are really really redundant.

[CosmicBills]

I have to say, I am firmly with the owners on this. I know its not the sheik decision but follow me here. How do the players have the right to dictate their terms to the owners? In any other company or business ...

 

Stop right there. The answer is because this isn't "any other company or business". The NFL isn't GM, it isn't Blue Cross, it isn't Kodak or Wegmans or Zerox or Bausch & Lomb. It's not Apple, a Law Firm, Hospital or a McDonalds. The NFL Owners do not make anything nor do they provide any sort of service. The owners make money because people want to pay them to watch their players who are independent contractors. Yet the players assume virtually all the risks.

 

Stop thinking the NFL is like any other business. It's not. If you replaced the entire workforce in virtually any other business, chances are you could find replacements for all of them without much fallout in your profit margins. But when your product is your employees, and your business operates under a system in which those employees assume all the risk financially AND physically, the traditional employee/employer relationship goes out the window.

 

With that being the case how is it justifiable in any way shape or form for the Owners to risk losing control of their business, or forcing the players to take a massive pay cut when despite signing a deal that favored the players AND the worst economic crisis this country has faced since the '40s, the Owners made more money than they ever have in the history of the league? Especially without providing any reason for the need to do so other than "trust us."?

 

It's not fair to the players who's talents built and define the league. And it's certainly not fair to the fans of the league who spend billions of dollars a year of their disposable income to the Owners.

 

For the Owners it's just greed and arrogance.

 

For the players it's just stubborness and principles.

 

For the fans it just sucks.

Edited May 9, 2011 by tgreg99

[bladiebla]

Anything can happen in a high stakes poker game...

Edited May 9, 2011 by bladiebla

[Mr. WEO]

How is the result of this different than the lockout, which has shut down the league?

[ETD66SS]

I hope the owners shut it down, no football in 2011.

 

The whole pay structure for players needs a revamp, and IMO, they need to cut the players off for a full season in order for that to ever happen.

 

A reboot is definitely needed.

 

I hope this also teaches current an future owners that building palaces instead of football stadiums is silly and over the top, and guys like Jerry Jones go bankrupt and are forced to bow of of this leauge.

 

Lot of wishful thinking on my part, but, have to dream sometimes I guess.

Edited May 9, 2011 by ETD66SS