Whitner gone?

[8-8 Forever?]

Wilson and Scott have out played him, whitner has played well this year, but honestly if he thinks he will get even his rookie contract numbers I am sorry, but after he makes the rounds he should be welcomed back in August.

Agreed. Whitner is like Vincent Jackson, looking to make a big contract but the owners are looking at the CBA and saying, lets wait until we know what the salary cap is and we will go from there. No one is going to pay Whitner what he wants. Bills will have a bottom 5 defense this year. Whitners bargaining power will be very small.

[CardinalScotts]

Awesome. We love wasting high-round picks on DBs and then letting them walk.

 

we ? this is Buddy Nix on the clock he can't be held responsible for other front office moves

[Bill from NYC]

Bills fans only want to root for underdog overachievers. Once a player gets paid, everyone turns on him. It's part of the bluecollar mentality that infects the fanbase. But it's assinine.

 

Coach, I must respectfully disagree. Fans CRAVE results from early 1st round picks, and are willing to grasp at straws in order to tell themselves that their favorite team didn't select a "bust" with its most precious resources. This has plagued the Bills for years, and Levy/Jauron buried us by wasting great picks on so-so players at positions of less importance. In the first round of 2010, Nix hit the ground running in this tradition of losing.

 

McKelvin and Whitner, despite very low production (and in Whitner's case off field antics) get all kinds of slack. You can see it in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I would sign him if the price was right, but only to but the brakes on the first round defensive back merry go-round. That is it. He would not be such a great loss.

Not at all.

 

Whitners bargaining power will be very small.

 

So is he so he should be comfortable.

[The Big Cat]

Can someone tell me what this twit said exactly? I can't view social networking sites at work.

 

I posted it very early on in this thread.

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/124627-whitner-gone/page__view__findpost__p__2060308

Edited December 16, 2010 by The Big Cat

[plenzmd1]

No one has seemed to acknowledge that when Whitners contract is up at the end of this season he will be a RESTRICTED FA as he has only 5 years in the league. With no CBA in place, a player needs 6 accrued season to be Unrestricted.

 

Whitner is prob upset he wont be getting FA money and will be tendered at a 3rd round level for about 950k - if I have my numbers right.

 

I think this is the crux of the problem here..and will be for many teams. With no CBA in place..will there be a cap? will there be greater revenue sharing? Will guys be RFA after 3,4,0r 5 years? If 4, what does the list of guys look like that were RFA last year, that under the old CFA would have been UFA, signed their tender, and will be available again this year?

 

So many questions without the CBA in place, I can see how it is hard to get a deal done in this envirnoment from both the player and the team side

Edited December 16, 2010 by plenzmd1

[Coach Tuesday]

Coach, I must respectfully disagree. Fans CRAVE results from early 1st round picks, and are willing to grasp at straws in order to tell themselves that their favorite team didn't select a "bust" with its most precious resources. This has plagued the Bills for years, and Levy/Jauron buried us by wasting great picks on so-so players at positions of less importance. In the first round of 2010, Nix hit the ground running in this tradition of losing.

 

McKelvin and Whitner, despite very low production (and in Whitner's case off field antics) get all kinds of slack. You can see it in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I would sign him if the price was right, but only to but the brakes on the first round defensive back merry go-round. That is it. He would not be such a great loss.

Not at all.

 

I don't completely disagree with you Bill. I am torn here, as I suspect you are. On the one hand, I agree 100% that Whitner has not lived up to his draft selection (nor has McKelvin), and that he has not played his way into "elite" status. On the other hand, I know that some other team will pay him top dollar, and that it's a familiar pattern around here. While I agree that Whitner may not deserve the contract he'll get (elsewhere), I am concerned that they'll burn another high draft pick to replace him. I'm also concerned that his leadership in the locker room will be missed. And finally, I'm worried that it will extend the Bills' reputation as a team unwilling to pay top dollar, which reverberates throughout the locker room and the league.

 

Seriously, if you were an up-and-coming Bills player (or potential free agent) and you saw the way they treated Peters, Fred Jackson, Pat Williams, etc., and now Whitner, and that they decide to overpay a guy like Kelsay, would you want/expect to sign with this team?

[Mr. WEO]

I think this is the crux of the problem here..and will be for many teams. With no CBA in place..will there be a cap? will there be greater revenue sharing? Will guys be RFA after 3,4,0r 5 years? If 4, what does the list of guys look like that were RFA last year, that under the old CFA would have been UFA, signed their tender, and will be available again this year?

 

So many questions without the CBA in place, I can see how it is hard to get a deal done in this envirnoment from both the player and the team side

With the new CBA, there will be a cap. Doubt the revenue sharing will be more generous than it was in the last CBA.

 

The difficulty signing a guy like Whitner is likely secondary to him asking for more money than most know he's worth. Same problem would exist if there was a cap/CBA in place right now.

[stony]

I don't completely disagree with you Bill. I am torn here, as I suspect you are. On the one hand, I agree 100% that Whitner has not lived up to his draft selection (nor has McKelvin), and that he has not played his way into "elite" status. On the other hand, I know that some other team will pay him top dollar, and that it's a familiar pattern around here. While I agree that Whitner may not deserve the contract he'll get (elsewhere), I am concerned that they'll burn another high draft pick to replace him. I'm also concerned that his leadership in the locker room will be missed. And finally, I'm worried that it will extend the Bills' reputation as a team unwilling to pay top dollar, which reverberates throughout the locker room and the league.

 

Seriously, if you were an up-and-coming Bills player (or potential free agent) and you saw the way they treated Peters, Fred Jackson, Pat Williams, etc., and now Whitner, and that they decide to overpay a guy like Kelsay, would you want/expect to sign with this team?

 

Exactly. It's easy to assume that Wilson/Scott will replace Whitner w/o much of a drop off in production (a point in which I disagree on). But what do you do to replace the roster spot these guys filled. Depth is a huge concern for a talent-starved roster like the Bills. It is extremely counterproductive to let a good player go and have to draft a lower-round guy to replace the depth the solid back-ups (now starters) provided.

 

Even worse, as you point out, is the message this sends to the young guys and any potential FAs interested in the Bills. I believe it was Nix who stated many times the Bills prefer to reward their own talent. Not giving Whitner a reasonable offer would go in the face of this strategy. Who do we think is more personable and "buddy-buddy" with the young guys. Whitner or Kelsay? Don't think for a second that Donte isn't talking about this or having guys ask him about what he meant by those comments. This sucks.

Edited December 16, 2010 by stony

[bananathumb]

His "bad news" sounds good to me.

[Mr. WEO]

Exactly. It's easy to assume that Wilson/Scott will replace Whitner w/o much of a drop off in production (a point in which I disagree on). But what do you do to replace the roster spot these guys filled. Depth is a huge concern for a talent-starved roster like the Bills. It is extremely counterproductive to let a good player go and have to draft a lower-round guy to replace the depth the solid back-ups (now starters) provided.

 

Even worse, as you point out, is the message this sends to the young guys and any potential FAs interested in the Bills. I believe it was Nix who stated many times the Bills prefer to reward their own talent. Not giving Whitner a reasonable offer would go in the face of this strategy. Who do we think is more personable and "buddy-buddy" with the young guys. Whitner or Kelsay? Don't think for a second that Donte isn't talking about this or having guys ask him about what he meant by those comments. This sucks.

You are assuming the Bills didn't give him a reasonable offer. What is a reasonable offer? Should the Bills have matched Clement's offer?

 

I bet a lot of guys on the team don't regard Whitner as their leader (or a leader at all) mainly because he always talks about himself to the public.

[I hate the Bills !]

We can always resign him for depth and start George Wilson whom I think most people prefer any ways !

[DPR4444]

I hope he's not waiting for a huge public outcry over his potential leaving.

[The Dean]

 

I bet a lot of guys on the team don't regard Whitner as their leader (or a leader at all) mainly because he always talks about himself to the public.

 

 

Unlike moronic fans, I doubt Donte's teammates care one bit about his tweets and what he talks about outside of the locker room and on the field.

 

With that said, I think players (and anyone for that matter) are stupid to tweet every thought that passes through their heads.

[H2o]

Why this team can't keep a good Defensive Back for many years?Remember Winfield, Clements, Greer and now Whitner.

So enjoy Jairus Byrd for the next 2 season, cause he will going to go elsewhere.

This is ridiculous. You guys change your mind more than a woman in a jewelry store @ Christmas time. I can't believe that someone would actually even think of putting Whitner in the class of Winfield, Clements, or even Greer for that matter. You guys have cried, moaned, and basically cut the guy to pieces the last 5 years about how we made the wrong pick, he takes bad angles, he can't tackle, he doesn't make plays, he's just an average DB, he's a bust of a draft pick....ect,ect,ect. Now there's a tweet from the guy about his future in Buffalo and you guys are pissing and moaning about him not getting a new deal, when there are still three weeks left in the regular season.

[Dawgg]

Whitner was pretty easily replaced by guys on our bench last season.

He sure was.

 

Whitner may have been able to command significant $ had he made a few plays this season. Problem is, he simply hasn't made plays when the opportunities presented themselves. He dropped numerous INTs, took bad angles, and jumped on a blitz instead of making the sack.

 

He's average. For $3M per year, I might do it. Anything more, and let some other team waste their $.

[stony]

You are assuming the Bills didn't give him a reasonable offer. What is a reasonable offer? Should the Bills have matched Clement's offer?

 

I bet a lot of guys on the team don't regard Whitner as their leader (or a leader at all) mainly because he always talks about himself to the public.

 

Not assuming anything. I merely stated that not giving him a reasonable offer would not be in line with their publicly stated roster-building strategy.

 

Now that is quite the assumption. Remember that most of these guys like Twitter, unlike the curmudgeons who despise social media and/or kids walking across their front lawns.

 

Now I would assume that players don't like it when TO goes on his nationally broadcast TV show to call-out the owner and the coaches. Remember, most of the stuff Donte says is not news to anyone outside of this board. We choose to actively look at and debate his tweets. I doubt too many of his teammates do the same.

[Thoner7]

Bills Dailey is reporting that Whinter told the media that he and the Bills are “way off” in terms of a new deal.

 

Seems Whitner wants the money he has been making and the Bills want to pay him what he is worth – which is much less. Me, Id like to see him resigned but Id rather have GW starting, so its not a huge loss. I still could see him being tendered as he is a restricted FA with no cba.

 

Now, Poz and Florence needs new deals much more than Whitner, so gets those done.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Unlike moronic fans, I doubt Donte's teammates care one bit about his tweets and what he talks about outside of the locker room and on the field.

 

With that said, I think players (and anyone for that matter) are stupid to tweet every thought that passes through their heads.

Agree... with that last part

 

Often felt (even on this board with its collection of level-headed individuals) that PC's should come with that breathalyzer thing that doesn't

allow drunks to drive. Blow in the thing and it boots you off until your sober up - imagine how many errant emails or posts you could prevent

from reaching bosses, wives, girlfriends, etc...

 

Now, if they could come up with something that test the level of stupid before someone tweets...

 

Who knows, perhaps professional athletes feel they can use twitter to generate pressure on management when negotiating. Interesting to see if

the NFL starts cracking down on what players can or can't tweet about.

[jr1]

George Wilson era

[buffalo1983]

Just a month and a half ago, starting safety Donte Whitner had said he and the Buffalo Bills were talking about a potential extension to keep him a member of the franchise. Even last week Whitner sounded optimistic about how the negotations had been going.

 

How quickly things change.

 

Early Thursday morning, Whitner sent out a rather peculiar pair of Tweets to all his followers:

 

"Been up since 5 watching Dolphins film...received some not so good info yesterday Bills fans...My future here.... :-("

 

Later that day at One Bills Drive, Whitner cleared up exactly what that meant with reporters.

 

"Well, things aren't going the way that I want them to go, or getting it done. So, it might come to me actually hitting the free agent market because we're far off. We're far off in everything so, that's what it's going to be."

 

The follow up question is obvious. What went wrong between then and now in negotiations between the two sides? Whitner explained it all.

 

"Because of how far apart we are and how late it is in the season," said Whitner. "Now if this were earlier in the season, it would be different. But we have, what, 15-16 days to the last game before it's all over? I don't really think it's a lot of time to play around. I want to be here, and let's see if Buffalo wants me to stay here." -wgr

[Fixxxer]

Maybe these are preliminary talks. Each side is making their stance, lets see how it develops.

[Saint Doug]

"Because of how far apart we are and how late it is in the season," said Whitner. "Now if this were earlier in the season, it would be different. But we have, what, 15-16 days to the last game before it's all over? I don't really think it's a lot of time to play around. I want to be here, and let's see if Buffalo wants me to stay here."[/i] -wgr

 

Well, can't say that wasn't unexpected. I love how he makes this sound like it's the Bills problem. The Bills are causing this. The Bills don't want him back. Why doesn't he grow some stones and say "Based on my contract negotiations up to this point, I have decided not to sign it and leave the Bills.

[Ramius]

Until there's a new CBA in place, these negotiations are much ado about nothing.

[The Big Cat]

Well, can't say that wasn't unexpected. I love how he makes this sound like it's the Bills problem. The Bills are causing this. The Bills don't want him back. Why doesn't he grow some stones and say "Based on my contract negotiations up to this point, I have decided not to sign it and leave the Bills.

 

Supposedly he's asking for the veteran minimum...

[DDD]

I'm not going to get into the discussion of how good a player Whitner is and maybe I'm thinking out of the box here, but has anyone considered he actually wants to leave the Bills and go play for an organization that has a chance to make the playoffs the way Antoine Winfield did?

Edited December 16, 2010 by Mr. Wonderful

[DanInUticaTampa]

I have a feeling this team will do nothing until the CBA is resolved

 

Unless your name is Kesley.

 

 

Overall, I like whitner and hope he stays. But if he walks, I won't miss him. I bet when he looks around at other teams, he is going to realize the bills are the best option. I don't know what offer the bills have given him, but i am almost positive the offer would overpay him. I can't imagine many other teams offering much more for his services.

 

He might not like it now, but eventually he will probably settle for the bills.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Supposedly he's asking for the veteran minimum...

[UConn James]

Doesn't matter a whit that he's not an elite safety. There is a team out there who will give him insane money in FA, by justifying that DW played in a bad defensive system. And hey, looking at Jim Leonhard, they may be right. Doesn't make Whitner worth all that scratch when someone else can come in without too steep a decline. Invest in the line and the front 7. Putting your heavy investmest into DBs is a losing strategy.

[KD in CA]

Awesome. We love wasting high-round picks on DBs and then letting them walk.

 

Almost as much as we love wasting high round picks on RBs and then trading them for low round picks a few years later.

[John from Riverside]

I guess I am in the minority as someone who is TOTALLY unimpressed with his play......

 

Use that money to bring in a quality linebacker or a right offensive tackle

 

jmo

[DreReed83]

Good riddens. He can take his 100 meaningless tackles elsewhere.

[KOKBILLS]

I guess I am in the minority as someone who is TOTALLY unimpressed with his play......

 

Use that money to bring in a quality linebacker or a right offensive tackle

 

jmo

 

I can't possibly imagine that you are in the minority with that opinion John...

 

If so I'm in the minority as well...

[bigc14120]

I'd agree with that.

Yep He is a B grade player, never an A in 5 years. Not a miss as a draft choice, but not playing up to #8 in the first round, says me. The Bills have safties....Scott, Byrd, Wilson....Bills should not overpay...but offer fair pay. If Donte has delusions...let him pursue them.......maybe somebody will overpay...and that would be in his best interest.

[dayman]

I constantly defend Whitner, have for a while from the haters. He's gotten WAY too much hate...although I admit he's come no where near living up to his pick or his pay. But he's been solid. If at this point all these crappy underachievers feel they deserve big contracts b/c they are the best we have on our bad team or b/c they were drafted a certain area or b/c they've been in the locker room a while and think of themselves as "leaders"...well then...!@#$ them.

 

Good by Donte. Don't let the door hit you in your greedy ass on the way out. Whoever we plug in will do just about as well perhaps better for less money.

 

!@#$ you Donte. I bought your jersey opening week of your rookie year thinking you might be a Sean Taylor. You were not. Go !@#$ yourself.

[Magox]

I constantly defend Whitner, have for a while from the haters. He's gotten WAY too much hate...although I admit he's come no where near living up to his pick or his pay. But he's been solid. If at this point all these crappy underachievers feel they deserve big contracts b/c they are the best we have on our bad team or b/c they were drafted a certain area or b/c they've been in the locker room a while and think of themselves as "leaders"...well then...!@#$ them.

 

Good by Donte. Don't let the door hit you in your greedy ass on the way out. Whoever we plug in will do just about as well perhaps better for less money.

 

!@#$ you Donte. I bought your jersey opening week of your rookie year thinking you might be a Sean Taylor. You were not. Go !@#$ yourself.

[DreReed83]

Until Whitner does something for this defense that actually means something, then he's not worth the money. Theres TONS of good young safeties that look much more promising than he ever has. Nate Allen, Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, and even George Wilson and Jarius Byrd. He's not worth the money and he is EASILY replaceable. George Wilson, a converted WR is way ahead of Whitner in my eyes.

 

Later Whitner. Enjoy riding the bench for some other team.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I constantly defend Whitner, have for a while from the haters. He's gotten WAY too much hate...although I admit he's come no where near living up to his pick or his pay. But he's been solid. If at this point all these crappy underachievers feel they deserve big contracts b/c they are the best we have on our bad team or b/c they were drafted a certain area or b/c they've been in the locker room a while and think of themselves as "leaders"...well then...!@#$ them.

 

Good by Donte. Don't let the door hit you in your greedy ass on the way out. Whoever we plug in will do just about as well perhaps better for less money.

 

!@#$ you Donte. I bought your jersey opening week of your rookie year thinking you might be a Sean Taylor. You were not. Go !@#$ yourself.

Feel better now?

[nodnarb]

Someone with a Twitter account: please remind Whitner that his expectations are out of line with his production.

[Ramius]

Until Whitner does something for this defense that actually means something, then he's not worth the money. Theres TONS of good young safeties that look much more promising than he ever has. Nate Allen, Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, and even George Wilson and Jarius Byrd. He's not worth the money and he is EASILY replaceable. George Wilson, a converted WR is way ahead of Whitner in my eyes.

 

Later Whitner. Enjoy riding the bench for some other team.

 

Jairus Byrd has been far and away the worst defensive back on the team this season. As good as his rookie year was (and he's wasn't good, it was a mirage of him being the benefactor of lucky bounces), thats how bad he's been this season.

[DreReed83]

Jairus Byrd has been far and away the worst defensive back on the team this season. As good as his rookie year was (and he's wasn't good, it was a mirage of him being the benefactor of lucky bounces), thats how bad he's been this season.

 

Regardless Jarius Byrd's ONE good season here has been better than any year Whitner's had as a member of this team.