Leodis McKelvin....

[Bill from NYC]

He had a pretty rough outing.

 

In fact, so did our other 1st round picks. Whitner had a few good hits but he is a consistent liability in coverage. Spiller is pretty much a non-factor.

 

Call me crazy, but I think that this dismal draft pattern will change in 2011.

[akm0404]

Like most draft experts predicted, Rogers-Cromartie has far exceeded the performance of Leodis McKelvin. And, he never had a penis spray painted on his lawn.

 

Aqib Talib is also far better.

 

Oh wells.

[Ramius]

McKelvin had a bad game. No more, no less.

[Coach Tuesday]

McKelvin is a bust, I'll say it. He has shown almost zero improvement since coming into the league. The Bears went after him all day yesterday (with their scrub receivers).

[jr1]

2 interceptions in 27 games

[Erik]

He had a pretty rough outing.

 

In fact, so did our other 1st round picks. Whitner had a few good hits but he is a consistent liability in coverage. Spiller is pretty much a non-factor.

 

Call me crazy, but I think that this dismal draft pattern will change in 2011.

 

Eh, McKelvin is easily our best corner and it's not even close. Maybe you can make an argument that Corner has been a bit more effective but take him out of the slot and I'm guessing he's not as effective. Florence has been garbage this year and McGee is broken down.

[DrDawkinstein]

Im not sure what team you guys are watching, but McKelvin has been one of our best defensive players this year. He was making plays the entire Miami game, and only screwed up once.

 

It's not really fair to criticize our DBs when we have ZERO pass rush. When the opposing QB consistently has 4-6 seconds to stand in the pocket, the DBs will ALWAYS look bad.

 

Get some pressure up front and you'll see we have one of the best Defensive Backfields in the league.

[buffalo_bills]

He was beaten a couple times yesterday, and missed a tackle. Otherwise he looked sound. Hes also had some very nice plays this year. This is basically only his second year in the league, as he was hurt almost all of last year. Before everyone is talking about how he's our new shutdown corner, and now everyones calling him a bust. He'll be fine, along with CJ.

[LABills08]

Im not sure what team you guys are watching, but McKelvin has been one of our best defensive players this year. He was making plays the entire Miami game, and only screwed up once.

 

It's not really fair to criticize our DBs when we have ZERO pass rush. When the opposing QB consistently has 4-6 seconds to stand in the pocket, the DBs will ALWAYS look bad.

 

Get some pressure up front and you'll see we have one of the best Defensive Backfields in the league.

 

This is a fair point. When you the QB 5-6 seconds to throw the ball, the chances of CBs to make a play dwindle. I'm not UNHAPPY with McKelvin, I just would like to see him get burned far less. The plays in which he gives up big yardage are not necessarily plays in which the QB has had ample amount of time to throw or plays in which the wrong defensive scheme was called. Sometimes he just makes boneheaded decisions.

 

But, yes. It all goes back to the pass rush. Which is why teams are supposed to build through the defensive front 7 first, not the secondary. Of course, the Bills never followed that logic.

[Bill from NYC]

As for Spiller, that is a ridiculous comment to make. Seriously, can Bills fans stop knocking on a RB who gets less than 10 carries a game? If the O Line was even remotely capable of opening up gaps between the OTs and OGs he would be killing it. And, by the way, he has had some big plays called back because of penalties.

 

You can rip the pick bc Gailey hasn't utilized him. But you can't rip his talent.

 

We probably agree more than you seem to think. The thing is, sometimes a player being "good" in fact, or even in some abstract way doesn't justify an early selection. We drafted a part time gimmick player at #9, and our OL and front 7 speak for themselves.

 

Again, I suspect things will change this season. Ralph will probably make them select a QB in the first round, and it appeared last year that he let them do what they wanted after round 1.

As bad as things are now, I am of the opinion that the Bills will be a much better team next season.

[DrDawkinstein]

He was beaten a couple times yesterday, and missed a tackle. Otherwise he looked sound. Hes also had some very nice plays this year. This is basically only his second year in the league, as he was hurt almost all of last year. Before everyone is talking about how he's our new shutdown corner, and now everyones calling him a bust. He'll be fine, along with CJ.

 

 

too.. much... rational... thought...

 

board... shutting... down...

[Lofton80]

I think the guy has talent. He looked like the real deal near the end of his rookie season. Lack of pressure on the QB makes it difficult to judge him as a bust. He does get turned around a lot it seems. Spiller will not be a bust but he has to hit whats there rather than dance. The players on defense are faster what he saw in the ACC. Once the feet shuffle he is toast.

[Peace]

As much fun as I'd love to bash the corners, I can't. It's completely unfair to attack them when the Bills don't just get no sacks, they get no pressure.

 

I didn't have the benefit of replay yesterday but it seemed like Whitner sat out a lot of plays. Was that right?

[Mr. WEO]

Im not sure what team you guys are watching, but McKelvin has been one of our best defensive players this year. He was making plays the entire Miami game, and only screwed up once.

 

It's not really fair to criticize our DBs when we have ZERO pass rush. When the opposing QB consistently has 4-6 seconds to stand in the pocket, the DBs will ALWAYS look bad.

 

Get some pressure up front and you'll see we have one of the best Defensive Backfields in the league.

I'm not buying that. It's funny that last season, the Dontes were always saying that their Donte couldn't shine because our pass rush sucked.

 

Now apparently everybody sucks in the D backfield because.........we have no pass rush. Also, is Schobel really the reason that we went from 28 ints to zero? Or is it that our coaches are too dense to realize their "new scheme" is hopelessly ineffective?

 

hmmmm.

[DrDawkinstein]

As much fun as I'd love to bash the corners, I can't. It's completely unfair to attack them when the Bills don't just get no sacks, they get no pressure.

 

I didn't have the benefit of replay yesterday but it seemed like Whitner sat out a lot of plays. Was that right?

 

Im not positive, but I believe he was in just as much as usual.

 

If you mean because we saw Scott a lot, they were both on the field at the same time often. We were running all sorts of nickel and dime pass defenses, so both were on the field at once.

 

Again, just from what I saw. I wasnt necessarily watching for it.

[buffalo_bills]

We probably agree more than you seem to think. The thing is, sometimes a player being "good" in fact, or even in some abstract way doesn't justify an early selection. We drafted a part time gimmick player at #9, and our OL and front 7 speak for themselves.

 

Again, I suspect things will change this season. Ralph will probably make them select a QB in the first round, and it appeared last year that he let them do what they wanted after round 1.

As bad as things are now, I am of the opinion that the Bills will be a much better team next season.

It all depends on how our offseason goes. We have a lot of potential with guys like stevie, Evans, Spiller, Williams, Poz, MCKELVIN, Byrd...etc, but we need a) A franchise QB, which will be chosen round 1 b) a linebackers and c) d-lineman and d) Right tackle. Lets see how Merriman plays out. He could be a potential gem in the rough. We have been playing great offensively, with Fitzy as our QB. Imagine what gailey can do with Luck or Mallet! If Buddy plays his cards right, we may have a playoff team as early as next year. But thats a big IF.

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm not buying that. It's funny that last season, the Dontes were always saying that their Donte couldn't shine because our pass rush sucked.

 

Now apparently everybody sucks in the D backfield because.........we have no pass rush. Also, is Schobel really the reason that we went from 28 ints to zero? Or is it that our coaches are too dense to realize their "new scheme" is hopelessly ineffective?

 

hmmmm.

 

So you dont think that if we were getting consistent pressure, and lets say 2-3 sacks a game, our DBs would look "better", and even have some picks?

 

Pressure does not help the pass defense, is what you are getting at?

[bills44]

But I thought that teams were built from the lines on out, and that the Bills had an inferior OL and Front Seven on D?

 

So how can you judge the play of the DBs if the foundation on which the D is based is inferior?

[mikef272002]

McKelvin is a bust, I'll say it. He has shown almost zero improvement since coming into the league. The Bears went after him all day yesterday (with their scrub receivers).

Are you kidding my Buddy..! McKelvin is not a bust, he's probably our best corner..When a QB get's 5-6 seconds to throw the ball what do you expect..How about Florence who gets beat repeatedly, and not to mentions get a couple holding penalties a game..Anyone would have a bad game when covering an NFL receiver for 6 seconds..

[Coach Tuesday]

Are you kidding my Buddy..! McKelvin is not a bust, he's probably our best corner..When a QB get's 5-6 seconds to throw the ball what do you expect..How about Florence who gets beat repeatedly, and not to mentions get a couple holding penalties a game..Anyone would have a bad game when covering an NFL receiver for 6 seconds..

 

Florence is a solid tackler, which is more than McKelvin can say. McKelvin also seems to have "stiff hips," which is deadly for a cornerback. Watch him react to a WR's break - he's late coming out of his own break - he does not get his hips around in time, and as a result, the WR gets separation. McKelvin also has poor technique on things like fades, pumps, and jump balls, which is simply inexcusable for someone who has been in the league for a few years.

 

McGee is our best cornerback, but he is injury-prone and should've been IR'd this season.

[qdawg in philly]

Mckelvin is not a bust! He just has played up to that 11th pick! That's why he was not starting beside terrance magee, florence was! And although florence is having a down year, he plays better than mckelvin because he has expeience and he is consistent!

Mckelvin gets burnt way to often and its pathetic! But I don't disagree about the pass rush! It makes a difference! But mckelvin bites on a pump fake, so I guess that's on the pass rush too!!

Reggie corner stinks! And yesterday I would've benched mckelvin and put in ashton y.

[John from Riverside]

No pass rush guys....I mean like ZERO

[lets_go_bills]

McKelin shows flashes but he's very inconsistent. He's been invisible out there as a playmaker. Then again, so has every single defensive player not named Kyle Williams. This defense as a whole sucks. McKelvin hasn't shown much since "the fumble" but this is such a down year for us, no one has looked good on this team.

[Magox]

It seemed pretty obvious to me that many of those crossing patterns that Cutler was completing were plays that took a long time to develop, that was afforded through our non-existent pass rush. If we get a passrush then we will begin to get some int's. Also, this team is much more suited for a 4-3 base defense.

[mikef272002]

Florence is a solid tackler, which is more than McKelvin can say. McKelvin also seems to have "stiff hips," which is deadly for a cornerback. Watch him react to a WR's break - he's late coming out of his own break - he does not get his hips around in time, and as a result, the WR gets separation. McKelvin also has poor technique on things like fades, pumps, and jump balls, which is simply inexcusable for someone who has been in the league for a few years.

 

McGee is our best cornerback, but he is injury-prone and should've been IR'd this season.

I agree McGee is our best, but I meant while he's out..I don't know maybe I only watch Florence because I think he sucks..Remember Mckelvin is really in his first full year of playing corner...I still like him even if you don't like his hips...

[purple haze]

McKelvin is starting to slowly and sadly drift into the territory of mediocrity, much in the same way that Whitner did. Too bad, bc I thought he had a lot of promise. Maybe he still does. But, 3 years in and he still gets absolutely burned by any QB who is capable of a pump fake. His instincts are very questionable.

 

As for Spiller, that is a ridiculous comment to make. Seriously, can Bills fans stop knocking on a RB who gets less than 10 carries a game? If the O Line was even remotely capable of opening up gaps between the OTs and OGs he would be killing it. And, by the way, he has had some big plays called back because of penalties.

 

You can rip the pick bc Gailey hasn't utilized him. But you can't rip his talent.

 

Two years in really. Last year he missed all but a game and a half. Let things play out. DB's get beat. All of them. Players have bad plays and bad games. All of them.

McKelvin will be fine.

[H2o]

You guys keep talking about our secondary in a negative light and you will get what you ask for in April. What if the consensus BPA is one of the CB's, either the one from LSU or the guy from Nebraska?

[purple haze]

You guys keep talking about our secondary in a negative light and you will get what you ask for in April. What if the consensus BPA is one of the CB's, either the one from LSU or the guy from Nebraska?

 

Then they should take him if a Franchise QB is not available. McGee is going to be a nickel corner soon with the way his health has been. Corner is a nickel. Florence's contract is up. They need a starter there soon or one to groom as a starter. Wouldn't be a bad pick. Especially if it's Peterson from LSU. Have you seen him play much? Elite athlete and good defender. Aggressive in run support and can cover.

Edited November 8, 2010 by purple haze

[akm0404]

Mr. Modrak...is that you?

[Peace]

Then they should take him if a Franchise QB is not available. McGee is going to be a nickel corner soon with the way his health has been. Corner is a nickel. Florence's contract is up. They need a starter there soon or one to groom as a starter. Wouldn't be a bad pick. Especially if it's Peterson from LSU. Have you seen him play much? Elite athlete and good defender. Aggressive in run support and can cover.

 

In a Bill in NYC thread?

 

Oh no you didn't.

[Ramius]

In a Bill in NYC thread?

 

Oh no you didn't.

 

Funny thing is, in 2007, Bill was doing his usual lunatic offseason ranting about the Bills drafting a CB in round 1, and was deathly afraid that the Bills would draft Darelle Revis, and that drafting Revis would "destroy the franchise." He's changed his tune a bit now.

[Mr. WEO]

So you dont think that if we were getting consistent pressure, and lets say 2-3 sacks a game, our DBs would look "better", and even have some picks?

 

Pressure does not help the pass defense, is what you are getting at?

No, I understsand the concept. I just don't think you can say that our pass rush is solely responsible for the complete failure (relative to last year, when I read the same exact argument right here) of the DBs to get an F-ing interception.

 

 

Last season we averaged a whopping 2 sacks per game (tied for 18th). This year we are averaging 1.5 sacks. So if we get it back to 2 a game, we are going to see 14 sacks over the next 8 games? Yeah, I see what you're getting at.

 

Couldn't be that our DC is a bonehead who doesn't know how to run a 3-4 defense (or whatever it is he is dreaming up). Or that our HC (who now is busy pretending he's coaching the Texas Tech offense) doesn't realize his coaching staff is totally in over their heads.

 

nahh....

[BillsVet]

No pass rush guys....I mean like ZERO

 

Which is what some people said entering the season. No pass rush means difficult times for the secondary, which has exactly zero INT's in half a season.

 

Funny thing is, in 2007, Bill was doing his usual lunatic offseason ranting about the Bills drafting a CB in round 1, and was deathly afraid that the Bills would draft Darelle Revis, and that drafting Revis would "destroy the franchise." He's changed his tune a bit now.

 

Lunacy is wanting a WR in the first round of 2008 and subsequently employing revisionist history to bemoan another long term respected poster because he didn't want another CB. How many of the 08 WR class are making strides outside of Desean Jackson?

 

We all make observations that don't turn out right, just like personnel evaluators in the NFL (Bill Polian and Corey Simon or Belichick and his busts.) Doesn't mean that person lost all respect.

[Nanker]

Wade Phillips is a bust.

[T master]

If we had a little more pressure on opposing QB's out of our D i think we would have a better record & better stats out of our secondary but until we get some better line play on D we'll be the same old a D .

 

GO MERRIMAN GO !!!!!

[bowery4]

McKelvin is starting to slowly and sadly drift into the territory of mediocrity, much in the same way that Whitner did. Too bad, bc I thought he had a lot of promise. Maybe he still does. But, 3 years in and he still gets absolutely burned by any QB who is capable of a pump fake. His instincts are very questionable.

 

As for Spiller, that is a ridiculous comment to make. Seriously, can Bills fans stop knocking on a RB who gets less than 10 carries a game? If the O Line was even remotely capable of opening up gaps between the OTs and OGs he would be killing it. And, by the way, he has had some big plays called back because of penalties.

 

You can rip the pick bc Gailey hasn't utilized him. But you can't rip his talent.

 

 

 

 

When your D gives 6 seconds to get a pass out, yeah your corners are going to look bad. No sacks very little pressure . Greer had a TD the otherday, that was a mistake .

[Bill from NYC]

Lunacy is wanting a WR in the first round of 2008 and subsequently employing revisionist history to bemoan another long term respected poster because he didn't want another CB. How many of the 08 WR class are making strides outside of Desean Jackson?

 

We all make observations that don't turn out right, just like personnel evaluators in the NFL (Bill Polian and Corey Simon or Belichick and his busts.) Doesn't mean that person lost all respect.

 

Thanks BV. Ramus is a smart guy, but he is a staunch defender of the Levy/Jauon era. He, and some others think that if a player is "good," it in some way justifies a stupid draft selection. His 4 years of praising Whitner are an example of this, and you just know he must be fully happy with McKelvin and Spiller. After all.....they are "good."

 

Revis is one of the best corners no doubt, but Dick Levy had just used the #8, as well as an early 3rd and 4th on the secondary in 06, and would go on to draft McKelvin in 08. This is not to speak of free agents. I make the case that having a 15 or 20 million dollar corner on this team would not fix its problems.

 

Now, the chickens are home to roost. As you stated in another post, Ralph will almost certainly order a QB to be drafted (and this time he is probably intefering in the right way). Today, every sportswriter, commentator and reasonable fan know that our OL is still very spotty and the front 7 is pathetic.

Ironically, the same problems did exist in 06. They are still problems due to the resources wasted on the mediocre high first round picks who Ramius so vigorously defends.

[Mr. WEO]

too.. much... rational... thought...

 

board... shutting... down...

Yeah, right.

 

Anyway, did anyone really ever call him a shutdown corner??

[Bill from NYC]

Yeah, right.

 

Anyway, did anyone really ever call him a shutdown corner??

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/120585-mcgee-and-mckelvin-shut-down-corners/page__st__20__p__1991346__hl__%2Bshutdown+%2Bcorner__fromsearch__1#entry1991346

 

Start from the OP.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Bill from NYC

[Mr. WEO]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/120585-mcgee-and-mckelvin-shut-down-corners/page__st__20__p__1991346__hl__%2Bshutdown+%2Bcorner__fromsearch__1#entry1991346

 

Start from the OP.

Wow--didn't see that. And this was said just a few weeks ago!

 

Talk is cheap, I guess.