Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

[Malazan]

6 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Definitely agree.  People will look for any reason they can to beat up on the guy.  His stat sheet would be off the charts with just about any other team.  KC really spreads the ball around to it's WRs.  The #1 guy in that O is also the TE.

 

He's been on two other teams...and his stats were nowhere near 'off the charts' so why would team #4 be different?

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Kelce is a TE.

Well, shoot, Now that you mention it he wouldn’t be  a high end passing option.

 

and it changes nothing given it could’ve been tyreek and about 4 if their receivers listed there anyway 

3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

He's been on two other teams...and his stats were nowhere near 'off the charts' so why would team #4 be different?

when healthy he had a run of off the charts here. Just too short a window. 

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

Well, shoot, Now that you mention it he wouldn’t be  a high end passing option.

 

and it changes nothing given it could’ve been tyreek and about 4 if their receivers listed there anyway 

when healthy he had a run of off the charts here. Just too short a window. 

Yep. His 9-game run to end 2015 was perhaps the best half-season of WR play this millennium 

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

what’s funny too is he was like the the 4th option on that TD play he had today. Mahomes has all day and everyone else was covered. Don’t get me wrong— it was a nice catch and route (and gorgeous throw), but he is not out there against the other team’s no. 1 CB as the no. 1 option. 
 

KC is a great spot for him where he can be in line after about 5 or 6 other better and more consistent weapons.

we watched him play fine against CB1 plenty here 

 

26 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

How did I know we would see these posts?

 

Watkins is never healthy and is mostly an afterthought in the KC offense.

 

He got some looks today cause the Titans focused on the speed guys and Kelce...good for him.

 

Still wouldn't want him on my team for the production at his salary 

let’s go get some of those speed guys and kelce and overpay a wr while we still can 

[Bing Bong]

Watkins is doing just fine y'all need to layoff and get back to ya'll little jobs

[formerlyofCtown]

24 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Like the Rams?

 

I like Sammy a lot and agree with the argument that he's a still a weapon that this team needs, but he's never going to be that #1 guy. I don't know if it's all between the ears, or his injuries, or some combination of the two but it's not happening. I don't doubt that he could be the most skilled #3 in the league though (I'm assuming Kupp is no longer really a 3).

No WR on the Kc roster had 1000 yards.

Watkins is their #2 WR not 3rd.

Sammy's career and ability has been hampered by foot injuries and even with that I think he would be a number one on most teams.

 

You are dilusional if you think John Brown (who I like) is a better WR than Watkins.

 

The Rams are 4 deep and Cooks #s look pedestrian because of it.  They also make very little use of their TE and RBs compared to an Andy Reed offense.

Right now Josh is still developing so it isn't that easy to make an accurate assessment of our WRs.  Lets not forget that Robert Woods was a terrible WR according to many on this board.

Edited January 20, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[Paulus]

The Sammy hate here is so stupid. Some of y'all are ridiculous. SAD!!!

[CoudyBills]

23 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

To accent your point: any of Ridley, Sanu, Fuller, Stills, or Watkins would certainly vie for the WR1 spot on Buffalo’s roster 

That's frickin sad isnt it?

[formerlyofCtown]

11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Yep. His 9-game run to end 2015 was perhaps the best half-season of WR play this millennium 

Not to mention his week one performance.

9-198-3tds

[Billsfan1972]

11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Yep. His 9-game run to end 2015 was perhaps the best half-season of WR play this millennium 

People forget that....  The guy got injured in year 3, it happens....  And then they flush him & the O down the toilet in 2017, for what?

 

He did nothing bad on the field as a Buffalo Bill.....  

 

And the hate because they traded up to get him?  Or is it because in McD we trust????  Maybe he skipped a Prayer Group?????  

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Rico said:

He had the stench of Whaley all over him, much like everyone in here who is crying that that he's gone.

 

 

Did Darby, Gilmore and Watkins all have the stench of Whaley on them?

 

So if the Chiefs win in two weeks......then the stench of Whaley will have collected a SB ring in prominent roles each of the 3 years since he was fired?

 

So the tally would be Bills 0-54 in seasons with a SB win...........stench of Whaley 3-3.?

 

[Nelius]

7 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No WR on the Kc roster had 1000 yards.

Watkins is their #2 WR not 3rd.

Sammy's career and ability has been hampered by foot injuries and even with that I think he would be a number one on most teams.

 

You are dilusional if you think John Brown (who I like) is a better WR than Watkins.

 

I'm not following your first point at all, sorry. I didn't mention 1000 yards, but Tyreek Hill is the clear #1 on that team.

Watkins is their third receiving option, at least. I see him as a #3 guy in the league, although I'm not going to argue against him being a #2. Point is he's not a #1.

John Brown is not as physically gifted as Sammy Watkins, but he is absolutely a better wide receiver than Sammy Watkins. It happens, if physical talent was everything then Charles Rogers would have lasted for more than 3 seasons.

 

I like Sammy a lot and have said that he's a viable weapon that flashes #1 upside, but just isn't consistent enough to be a true #1. What more do you want?

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Nelius

[Billsfan1972]

34 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Agree. So he's not a leader, not everyone is. Good production these last two key games. Not worth the elite dollars but a really good receiver nonetheless. I just don't see the need to demonize the guy because he didn't work out here in Buffalo.

He was working out just fine in Buffalo (some injuries unfortunately, but was health training camp 2017).......  The problem was not enough targets.

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Did Darby, Gilmore and Watkins all have the stench of Whaley on them?

 

So if the Chiefs win in two weeks......then the stench of Whaley will have collected a SB ring in prominent roles each of the 3 years since he was fired?

 

So the tally would be Bills 0-54 in seasons with a SB win...........stench of Whaley 3-3.?

 

Gilmore didn't, he was a Buddy boy. Darby did, but he didn't smell as much as Sammy.

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

Gilmore didn't, he was a Buddy boy. Darby did, but he didn't smell as much as Sammy.

which Whaley players had his stench and which just needed to be hosed down to be good?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No WR on the Kc roster had 1000 yards.

Watkins is their #2 WR not 3rd.

Sammy's career and ability has been hampered by foot injuries and even with that I think he would be a number one on most teams.

 

You are dilusional if you think John Brown (who I like) is a better WR than Watkins.

It’s honestly tough to say whether John Brown would be better than Sammy. Sammy barely registers targets for the most explosive offense in football, despite going against far inferior cover guys than Hill and Kelce draw. And this, after being a total non-factor for an explosive LA Rams offense. 
 

I think the hate you see is Watkins is a disappointment production-wise and is too inconsistent and injury prone. The other hate is it seems like he doesn’t really have competitive fire. His comments about being down during the Texans game is evidence of that, as is the fact that he seems he would rather join a team to be the 3rd option, than try to go out and be the man somewhere. 

[Bing Bong]

23 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No WR on the Kc roster had 1000 yards.

Watkins is their #2 WR not 3rd.

Sammy's career and ability has been hampered by foot injuries and even with that I think he would be a number one on most teams.

 

You are dilusional if you think John Brown (who I like) is a better WR than Watkins.

 

The Rams are 4 deep and Cooks #s look pedestrian because of it.  They also make very little use of their TE and RBs compared to an Andy Reed offense.

Right now Josh is still developing so it isn't that easy to make an accurate assessment of our WRs.  Lets not forget that Robert Woods was a terrible WR according to many on this board.

Goff and/or McVay simply like targeting their slot receiver Kupp more often. Watkins is a great fit with KC and there are not many WRs better than Hill or Kelce atm

 

Plus Swatkins is banged up

 

Watkins makes our WR corps NFL competent. Not every move Beane makes is perfect. Tired of the Beane glorification

Edited January 20, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Trogdor]

14 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

I'm not following your first point at all, sorry. I didn't mention 1000 yards, but Tyreek Hill is the clear #1 on that team.

Watkins is their third receiving option, at least. I see him as a #3 guy in the league, although I'm not going to argue against him being a #2. Point is he's not a #1.

John Brown is not as physically gifted as Sammy Watkins, but he is absolutely a better wide receiver than Sammy Watkins. It happens, if physical talent was everything then Charles Rogers would have lasted for more than 3 seasons.

 

I like Sammy a lot and have said that he's a viable weapon that flashes #1 upside, but just isn't consistent enough to be a true #1. What more do you want?

 

I like your enthusiasm, but I don't think anyone outside of Buffalo would agree. Sammy is much better than Brown who is limited in ability. You are being extra salty when you call him a #3. 

[Rico]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

which Whaley players had his stench and which just needed to be hosed down to be good?

No doubt his draft picks had the stench. Anyone else who was already here could be hosed down and possibly salvaged (ala Kyle Williams). The 2 outliers were Shaq Lawson (wants that $) and Lorenzo (defies all logic).

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, Rico said:

Gilmore didn't, he was a Buddy boy. Darby did, but he didn't smell as much as Sammy.

 

 

Did Patrick Mahomes have the stench of Whaley or did someone else make the biggest mistake in franchise history?

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

It’s honestly tough to say whether John Brown would be better than Sammy. Sammy barely registers targets for the most explosive offense in football, despite going against far inferior cover guys than Hill and Kelce draw. And this, after being a total non-factor for an explosive LA Rams offense. 
 

I think the hate you see is Watkins is a disappointment production-wise and is too inconsistent and injury prone. The other hate is it seems like he doesn’t really have competitive fire. His comments about being down during the Texans game is evidence of that, as is the fact that he seems he would rather join a team to be the 3rd option, than try to go out and be the man somewhere. 

yea, shame on a guy going to a super bowl contender for a huge pay check.
 

And then end up being in the biggest games 

[Rico]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Did Patrick Mahomes have the stench of Whaley or did someone else make the biggest mistake in franchise history?

No, that stench may come from the food he eats.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

yea, shame on a guy going to a super bowl contender for a huge pay check.
 

And then end up being in the biggest games 

For about the same money from what was market rate that year, he passed up being the possible no. 1 for the bears, cowboys, and packers, in order to be the fourth option in KC. People want to know why there is Sammy Watkins hate; it’s because many don’t think he has heart or competitive fire. 

[Bing Bong]

28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Did Darby, Gilmore and Watkins all have the stench of Whaley on them?

 

So if the Chiefs win in two weeks......then the stench of Whaley will have collected a SB ring in prominent roles each of the 3 years since he was fired?

 

So the tally would be Bills 0-54 in seasons with a SB win...........stench of Whaley 3-3.?

 

Whaley was a good GM. Just because someone has a different vision that doesn't involve tearing the house down doesn't mean they didn't make a few good moves.. even if they're a former Bills exec. Not every former Bill was trash. Not every GM's roster gets Wrexed. Not every GM has the successor completely wipe out everything he was working for.

 

After seeing the Titans and 49ers succeed I don't think a lower tier quarterback is as egregious a legacy as we make it

 

I blame Rex Ryan for how the Bills changed to the Beane regime more than anything

Edited January 20, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

I like your enthusiasm, but I don't think anyone outside of Buffalo would agree. Sammy is much better than Brown who is limited in ability. You are being extra salty when you call him a #3. 

 

He was a #3 for the Rams and he's clearly not the #2 receiving option in KC, but whatever, call him a #2.

 

Last 3 seasons:

 

Watkins - 1,785 yds / 14 TD

Brown - 2,074 yds / 14 TD

 

It ain't that crazy. 

 

But much like waiting until week 15 or 16 for Robert Foster to catch a ball, we'll just assume that Sammy really catches fire next year.

[Niagara Dude]

Sammy is still a great player who if he became available would be a huge upgrade over average WR talent we now have.  Sammy can make the tough sideline catch and go deep,  i have no problem with him returning to the Bills. We need talent at WR and he would be a great start,  he will be a 21 million cap hit in 2020 and Chiefs would save 14 mill cutting him.

 

 

I know many fans keep mentioning his injuries but he look like he is finally over that foot issue.  

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Did Darby, Gilmore and Watkins all have the stench of Whaley on them?

 

So if the Chiefs win in two weeks......then the stench of Whaley will have collected a SB ring in prominent roles each of the 3 years since he was fired?

 

So the tally would be Bills 0-54 in seasons with a SB win...........stench of Whaley 3-3.?

 

 

Because each of those guys was solely responsible for their team's success? 

[Paulus]

43 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Did Darby, Gilmore and Watkins all have the stench of Whaley on them?

 

So if the Chiefs win in two weeks......then the stench of Whaley will have collected a SB ring in prominent roles each of the 3 years since he was fired?

 

So the tally would be Bills 0-54 in seasons with a SB win...........stench of Whaley 3-3.?

 

Ragland, too

And, McBeane passing on Mahomes.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Whaley was a good GM. Just because someone has a different vision that doesn't involve tearing the house down doesn't mean they didn't make a few good moves.. even if they're a former Bills exec. Not every former Bill was trash. Not every GM's roster gets Wrexed. Not every GM has the successor completely wipe out everything he was working for.

 

After seeing the Titans and 49ers succeed I don't think a lower tier quarterback is as egregious a legacy as we make it

 

 

I don't think Whaley was a "good" GM.......I think he was a road scout hired by a road scout GM and that was a bad fit for a football ignorant ownership group like the Pegs.............but he wasn't terrible and he left behind a lot of defensive talent and an offense that was among the league's most effective.

 

McDermott was a lackluster candidate with no clue about offensive football so hiring someone like that meant that he was either going to have to win over that prime-aged locker room with his coaching and charisma OR get rid of players with leverage who could afford to be skeptical.

 

They went with the latter.........which set the roster back at a time when they also had a lot of good older players.

 

In this time frame teams like the Eagles and Rams and Niners hired offensive minds who chose to build on considerably LESSER rosters than what the Bills had at the end of 2016.........and they've quickly become SB teams.

 

But the nice thing is that even though they self mutilated the roster and even though passing on Mahomes was probably the worst mistake in franchise history..........they still have a chance going forward if Allen pans out and they make good moves going forward.

 

As Belichick says you basically gotta' be making nothing but bad decisions to not be competitive in the NFL.

[formerlyofCtown]

55 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

I'm not following your first point at all, sorry. I didn't mention 1000 yards, but Tyreek Hill is the clear #1 on that team.

Watkins is their third receiving option, at least. I see him as a #3 guy in the league, although I'm not going to argue against him being a #2. Point is he's not a #1.

John Brown is not as physically gifted as Sammy Watkins, but he is absolutely a better wide receiver than Sammy Watkins. It happens, if physical talent was everything then Charles Rogers would have lasted for more than 3 seasons.

 

I like Sammy a lot and have said that he's a viable weapon that flashes #1 upside, but just isn't consistent enough to be a true #1. What more do you want?

 

You really don't know what youre talking about huh.

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Because each of those guys was solely responsible for their team's success? 

 

 

Perhaps you don't follow NFL football very closely but none of those teams had one player who was solely responsible for their success.

 

Obviously.

 

The excuse made for getting rid of those guys was that you couldn't win with those type of people.............which really couldn't have been proven more wrong.

 

It's ALL ABOUT winning SB's.

 

That's the whole point.

 

It's NOT about about participation trophies for being a fringe playoff team when better than 1/3 of the league makes the playoffs every year.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, Paulus said:

The Sammy hate here is so stupid. Some of y'all are ridiculous. SAD!!!

Their little jobs make them miserable.  He could have worded it differently but I understand exactly what he was talking about.  He was saying they arent qualified to make the judgements they are making.  Their are some on this board who do a good job of evaluation and there are others who like to pretend they can.

[formerlyofCtown]

52 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

It’s honestly tough to say whether John Brown would be better than Sammy. Sammy barely registers targets for the most explosive offense in football, despite going against far inferior cover guys than Hill and Kelce draw. And this, after being a total non-factor for an explosive LA Rams offense. 
 

I think the hate you see is Watkins is a disappointment production-wise and is too inconsistent and injury prone. The other hate is it seems like he doesn’t really have competitive fire. His comments about being down during the Texans game is evidence of that, as is the fact that he seems he would rather join a team to be the 3rd option, than try to go out and be the man somewhere. 

Unfortunately I think his decision to go there was money.  The same reason we decided to trade him.  His problem is injuries.  I think he has become a little less aggressive as a result.  I think that will pass.  He will never put up eye popping season stats in KC.  I'm not sure he understood that when he signed.  The TE and RBs are heavily utilized in Reed's Offense.

[Chaos]

I want to clear this up for people.  Doug Whaley was not  competent as a GM. Try to remember this.  Thank you for your cooperation. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Chaos

[Doc]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

Perhaps you don't follow NFL football very closely but none of those teams had one player who was solely responsible for their success.

 

Obviously.

 

The excuse made for getting rid of those guys was that you couldn't win with those type of people.............which really couldn't have been proven more wrong.

 

It's ALL ABOUT winning SB's.

 

That's the whole point.

 

It's NOT about about participation trophies for being a fringe playoff team when better than 1/3 of the league makes the playoffs every year.

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB? 

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?

[formerlyofCtown]

55 minutes ago, Rico said:

No doubt his draft picks had the stench. Anyone else who was already here could be hosed down and possibly salvaged (ala Kyle Williams). The 2 outliers were Shaq Lawson (wants that $) and Lorenzo (defies all logic).

Jerry Hughes.

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB? 

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?

point whizzed right by you and you were too stubborn to realize it 

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

I want to clear this up for people.  Doug Whaley was not  competent as a GM. Try to remember this.  Thank you for cooperation. 

Very good Scout but could not work together in a group or lead an organization.  I think Beane and McDermott have shown what can be accomplished if the entire organisation pulls in the same direction.

[Nelius]

20 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

You really don't know what youre talking about huh.

 

Way to contribute.

 

I've said I like Sammy. When all is said and done he should have a lot of money and a decent career to look back on. Why are you so defensive about him being a #1? It has been years since he's shown you that ability, just let it go.

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Jerry Hughes.

Buddy trade.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/04/29/bills-trade-lb-kelvin-sheppard-colts-lb-jerry-hughes

 

"Versatility is something we're looking for. We want our linebackers to be able to at least play both outside spots," Bills general manager Buddy Nix said. "We think this will give him an opportunity to do what he does best."