John from Riverside Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 What the heck is Fitzpatrick doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 What the heck is Fitzpatrick doing? Throwing the ball and trusting his WR will make the play. The only thing Edward's trust: "it's hard to win in the NFL". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Throwing the ball and trusting his WR will make the play. The only thing Edward's trust: "it's hard to win in the NFL". Agreed. It's clear that Fitzpatrick is not as talented as Edwards, but is willing to attempt throws that Trent isn't. At this point, it's making Fitzpatrick a more attractive option. By attempting these throws, defenses are having to respect a dimension that wasn't there before. It's an issue where Fitzpatrick is a mediocre talent, but may lead the team to a number of wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 . It's an issue where Fitzpatrick is a mediocre talent, but may lead the team to a number of wins. Let me guess -- 7?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Agreed. It's clear that Fitzpatrick is not as talented as Edwards, but is willing to attempt throws that Trent isn't. At this point, it's making Fitzpatrick a more attractive option. By attempting these throws, defenses are having to respect a dimension that wasn't there before. It's an issue where Fitzpatrick is a mediocre talent, but may lead the team to a number of wins. Very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 What the heck is Fitzpatrick doing? I really wouldn't call what Fitz is doing "throwing to his wide receivers". It is more like he is throwing passes in the direction of the wide receivers if they were 8' tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I agree to a point, but let's not go overboard. He only completed 11 passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I really wouldn't call what Fitz is doing "throwing to his wide receivers". It is more like he is throwing passes in the direction of the wide receivers if they were 8' tall. TE would never have threaded that laser into Evans for the TD. Not unless both DB's fell down and Evans was wide open. not to mention the bomb to LE. TE is a Eunuch. He should join the campfire girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 TE would never have threaded that laser into Evans for the TD. Not unless both DB's fell down and Evans was wide open. not to mention the bomb to LE. TE is a Eunuch. He should join the campfire girls. If Fitz performance showed anything then it shows that either Trent has a major trust issue with his o-line or Trent is overcoached into the checkdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 I agree to a point, but let's not go overboard. He only completed 11 passes Lotsa drops beast.....lots of dropped balls by WR's. But I am not really hyping Fiz....I am more inclined to beleive our needed QB is not on the roster yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Edwards has the talent. We've seen glimpses. But it is Jauron's miserly gameplan that has him so afraid to take shots upfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 If Fitz performance showed anything then it shows that either Trent has a major trust issue with his o-line or Trent is overcoached into the checkdowns. Overcoached? No. There was a play Fitz looked, looked, then looked to his checkdown, then looked back downfield, and completed the pass for the first down. Edwards checks there, no doubt about it. So which is it? Do they have different coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I don't think the long term answer at QB is on this roster. Although I'm constantly having to review what I mean by "long term" given the current state of the NFL. Having said that I feel like Fitz has roused me from my comatose stupor on during Bills game times. At least he's a bit more fun to watch. Kinda like Flutie. Nowhere near as talented or exciting - but at least he has my interest. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I agree to a point, but let's not go overboard. He only completed 11 passes To his credit he should have had more receptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Edwards has the talent. We've seen glimpses. But it is Jauron's miserly gameplan that has him so afraid to take shots upfield True, Edwards has some talent. But, IMO, Fitzy is putting to rest the "gameplan" arguement. Look at the first pass he attempted. Down the middle, about 15-20 yards, to TO with a CB underneath and a safety over the top. Yes, he threw the ball high and TO didn't make the catch. But, that's exactly the type of throw that Trent has just refused to attempt. And, IMO, its been one of our biggest offensive problems this season. More and more, I'm thinking the gameplan calls for plenty of slants and mid-range passes. Its just been that we've had a QB that was unwilling to attempt those throws. Fitz needs to do a ton of work to improve his accuracy, but at least he's trying. I can live with trying and failure, but failure without even trying - well that's jsut demoralizing. And increaasingly, week after week, this team was looking demoralized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 True, Edwards has some talent. But, IMO, Fitzy is putting to rest the "gameplan" arguement. Look at the first pass he attempted. Down the middle, about 15-20 yards, to TO with a CB underneath and a safety over the top. Yes, he threw the ball high and TO didn't make the catch. But, that's exactly the type of throw that Trent has just refused to attempt. And, IMO, its been one of our biggest offensive problems this season. More and more, I'm thinking the gameplan calls for plenty of slants and mid-range passes. Its just been that we've had a QB that was unwilling to attempt those throws. Fitz needs to do a ton of work to improve his accuracy, but at least he's trying. I can live with trying and failure, but failure without even trying - well that's jsut demoralizing. And increaasingly, week after week, this team was looking demoralized. +∞ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I agree to a point, but let's not go overboard. He only completed 11 passes I think his point though was not how many he completed but how often our WR's were open. He may have been off target a bunch of those incompletions, but the WR he was throwing to was often open but he just made a bad pass, and that I think is the point being pointed out. The excuse before was that Trent didnt throw to them as they were not open. Fitz has shown our guys are open, even when he is off target on his throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzer32 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Apparently drops don't count for Edwards. That's all I hear from the Fitz faithful......to his credit, he could have had more completions if it weren't for the drops. Wtf, Trent has had plenty of passes dropped to his credit as well people. Bottom line is, they are both pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 The more snaps Fitz gets the better we'll be able to diagnose the issue. His second start at home should give us a much better read on his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 True, Edwards has some talent. But, IMO, Fitzy is putting to rest the "gameplan" arguement. Look at the first pass he attempted. Down the middle, about 15-20 yards, to TO with a CB underneath and a safety over the top. Yes, he threw the ball high and TO didn't make the catch. But, that's exactly the type of throw that Trent has just refused to attempt. And, IMO, its been one of our biggest offensive problems this season. More and more, I'm thinking the gameplan calls for plenty of slants and mid-range passes. Its just been that we've had a QB that was unwilling to attempt those throws. Fitz needs to do a ton of work to improve his accuracy, but at least he's trying. I can live with trying and failure, but failure without even trying - well that's jsut demoralizing. And increaasingly, week after week, this team was looking demoralized. Yes, perfectly stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I don't know how "open" a WR has to be for Edwards to throw to them? Obviously Fitzpatrick will throw regardless. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Edwards has the talent. We've seen glimpses. But it is Jauron's miserly gameplan that has him so afraid to take shots upfield So now that Fitz is in, Jauron has put the "miserly gameplan" on ice? I think Fitz' play over the last 2 weeks has shown that WRs are open and that there are plays in the gameplan to get them the ball. Not surprising, but now we know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 If Fitz performance showed anything then it shows that either Trent has a major trust issue with his o-line or Trent is overcoached into the checkdowns. Might be time to let that apology go. Fitz has the same coaching staff and he doesn't seem to have a problem trying, and sometimes successfully, throwing to his WRs. All things being equal Fitz is trying and has put TDs on the board with his arm and was at the wheel when we got our first rushing TD since December. In actuality Fitz was playing with a third string RT getting his first start so the line had even less talent than when TE was running the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Edwards has the talent. We've seen glimpses. But it is Jauron's miserly gameplan that has him so afraid to take shots upfield Again, doesn't seem to bother Fitz. IF we assume similar game plans it just means Trent has no stones to throw it down field. IF we assume that they put in a different game plan for Fitz then it must mean that Trent doesn't like the plays that AVP uses with Fitz. There was an article last week about putting in some plays that Fitz was more comfortable with as opposed to what TE is comfortable with. That says it all to me. One way or the other it's on Trent!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 True, Edwards has some talent. But, IMO, Fitzy is putting to rest the "gameplan" arguement. Look at the first pass he attempted. Down the middle, about 15-20 yards, to TO with a CB underneath and a safety over the top. Yes, he threw the ball high and TO didn't make the catch. But, that's exactly the type of throw that Trent has just refused to attempt. And, IMO, its been one of our biggest offensive problems this season. More and more, I'm thinking the gameplan calls for plenty of slants and mid-range passes. Its just been that we've had a QB that was unwilling to attempt those throws. Fitz needs to do a ton of work to improve his accuracy, but at least he's trying. I can live with trying and failure, but failure without even trying - well that's jsut demoralizing. And increaasingly, week after week, this team was looking demoralized. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Apparently drops don't count for Edwards. That's all I hear from the Fitz faithful......to his credit, he could have had more completions if it weren't for the drops. Wtf, Trent has had plenty of passes dropped to his credit as well people. Bottom line is, they are both pathetic. Behind our current O-line and running our offense almost any QB is going to look pathetic. There's just no arguing with some folks who are determined to make Trent Edwards look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Might be time to let that apology go. Fitz has the same coaching staff and he doesn't seem to have a problem trying, and sometimes successfully, throwing to his WRs. All things being equal Fitz is trying and has put TDs on the board with his arm and was at the wheel when we got our first rushing TD since December. In actuality Fitz was playing with a third string RT getting his first start so the line had even less talent than when TE was running the ship. I'm not going to defend TE's bad play, but the Fitz legend is growing faster than that of JPL. Look, in 2 games he's connected with his WRs 15 times. He's completed 45% of his passes. He's got one deep completion. TE has connected with his WRs 39 times, not great, but no worse than Fitz. TE completed 60% of his passes and has a higher YPA. Both have about 11 yard per catch avg. Let's hold off on the "Fitz is making throws TE would never make" nonsense. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092009/2...bills#tab:watch http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009100408/2...phins#tab:watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 True, Edwards has some talent. But, IMO, Fitzy is putting to rest the "gameplan" arguement. Look at the first pass he attempted. Down the middle, about 15-20 yards, to TO with a CB underneath and a safety over the top. Yes, he threw the ball high and TO didn't make the catch. But, that's exactly the type of throw that Trent has just refused to attempt. And, IMO, its been one of our biggest offensive problems this season. More and more, I'm thinking the gameplan calls for plenty of slants and mid-range passes. Its just been that we've had a QB that was unwilling to attempt those throws. Fitz needs to do a ton of work to improve his accuracy, but at least he's trying. I can live with trying and failure, but failure without even trying - well that's jsut demoralizing. And increaasingly, week after week, this team was looking demoralized. All Trent has going for him, at the moment, is that he's the coach's pet. His decision making is at failure level and it seems psychologically induced. I don't know that he can be salvaged; I would say he is very damaged goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 All Trent has going for him, at the moment, is that he's the coach's pet. His decision making is at failure level and it seems psychologically induced. I don't know that he can be salvaged; I would say he is very damaged goods. Not sure about the coaches pet, but Trent Edwards has been handicapped by improper development and his inability to throw into tight coverage probably is psychologically induced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddgurley Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 What the heck is Fitzpatrick doing? what a qb should do! Not all qb's checkdown everytime, some will actually throw to a WR a let him make a play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddgurley Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm not going to defend TE's bad play, but the Fitz legend is growing faster than that of JPL. Look, in 2 games he's connected with his WRs 15 times. He's completed 45% of his passes. He's got one deep completion. TE has connected with his WRs 39 times, not great, but no worse than Fitz. TE completed 60% of his passes and has a higher YPA. Both have about 11 yard per catch avg. Let's hold off on the "Fitz is making throws TE would never make" nonsense. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092009/2...bills#tab:watch http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009100408/2...phins#tab:watch Duh....Fitz has played two games, and hit his WR 15 times!!! How many games did trent play? And only hit his wr 39 times? and fitz actually takes shot down field. I like trent and want him to succeed but I dont think he has it. I hope I am wrong but he will not trust his WR's to make plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Overcoached? No. There was a play Fitz looked, looked, then looked to his checkdown, then looked back downfield, and completed the pass for the first down. Edwards checks there, no doubt about it. So which is it? Do they have different coaches? I don't think Edwards is being coached into repeatedly going to checkdowns but, then again, he's not being coached out of it either. A decent coach would make it clear to him that checking down all the time is not acceptable and that if he didn't snap out of it he would find himself benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Duh....Fitz has played two games, and hit his WR 15 times!!! How many games did trent play? And only hit his wr 39 times? and fitz actually takes shot down field. I like trent and want him to succeed but I dont think he has it. I hope I am wrong but he will not trust his WR's to make plays Whats 15 divided by 2, and whats 39 divided by 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Whats 15 divided by 2, and whats 39 divided by 5 3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 3.5 Awww, that's horrible math frog, my point is TE and Fitz are hitting their WR's at almost the same rate. Fitz 7.5 receptions to a WR per game TE 7.8 receptions to a WR per game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 is it just me or is fitz better at avoiding getting sacked as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Awww, that's horrible math frog, my point is TE and Fitz are hitting their WR's at the same rate. My question is what does the ratio become if you use both QB's total career starts.(Admittedly to lazy to do this myself. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 is it just me or is fitz better at avoiding getting sacked as well? Fitz has better wheels then TE in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Awww, that's horrible math frog, my point is TE and Fitz are hitting their WR's at almost the same rate. Fitz 7.5 receptions to a WR per game TE 7.8 receptions to a WR per game Better to look at targets, not completions. That helps account for drops and both QBs' poor accuracy, and just distill it down to decision-making. Luckily, espn.com's new box scores have targets in them, so it's pretty easy to add them up. For the Jets game, I went through the play-by-play and just counted a target every time it said a pass was intended for whoever. I probably wound up being off by 1 or 2, but my count should be close enough for these purposes. Anyway, I figured out the percentage of targets by WR, RB, and TE. It's not a perfect methodology, because a couple of the RB passes weren't checkdowns (exactly two, if I remember correctly), and some of the WR passes really were checkdowns (e.g., WR screens, TO caught a 6 yard hitch on 3rd and 18 in the Jets game, etc.). But it's still pretty good, and I doubt any of us has the time to go through every game and chart every pass play. So here goes. For the year, Edwards' percentages of targets are as follows: WR - 49.0% RB - 27.8% TE - 23.2% I was honestly surprised to see how high WR was. Here's Fitzpatrick's percentages: WR - 81.3% RB - 12.5% TE - 6.3% Wowsers. Of course, Fitzpatrick's played less than two full games, so he doesn't have much of a sample size, so take this with a grain of salt. But I think the trend will continue, even if it doesn't stay quite this pronounced. And even if it doesn't, the point remains: So far, Fitzpatrick has definitely thrown to his WRs more than Edwards did. Not with great success, which is why Fitzpatrick is a backup. He's playing the right way; he's just not good enough to execute at a high level. Captain Checkdown has NOT been playing the right way, and I tend to doubt that he could pull it off if he tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Edwards has the talent. We've seen glimpses. But it is Jauron's miserly gameplan that has him so afraid to take shots upfield By year THREE we should see MUCH MORE than glimpses. I doubt the game plan was changed for Fitzpatrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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