Why keep bringing certain guys back?

[Lionel Hutz]

Because McD is not committed to winning. He's committed to winning on his terms. He will never adapt to the game and do whatever it takes to win. That's why he won't change the defense. That's why he only sticks with guys that he considers "good character" and why he won't bring in a big name D-coordinator.

 

Look at the Patriots under Belichick. They would try anything and everything to win. He hired guys to film other teams practices and steal their plays. He would regularly bring in players that were deemed troublemakers and get them to play a role for his team. Brady hired a guy to deflate his footballs below the legal limit. 

 

Also, I don't think Josh is like this with his coaches or teammates like Brady was:

 

[tigerthelion]

22 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

I have typically been an apologist for McD because I really do believe he does A LOT of things really well.  But I think he has reached the point where he may best serve in the coach-as-CEO role, rather than in the defensive strategist role, when "his" defense continues to decline as the years go by. McD is so married to "his" system -- and keeps bringing in  coordinators that are like-minded or outright acolytes of his. 

 

Part of the reason for the decline is that his system seems to center around having athletes with a particular skill set to run his defense. That was great when we had one of the best safety tandems in the league with Hyde/Poyer. But that is no longer the case. And as they and others (like T. White, T. Johnson and M Milano) have regressed, so has his defense. Wouldn't it be nice if the defense weren't so "system-based" and was adaptable to best handle the opponent at hand? 

 

It may be time for McD to bring in an outside "consultant" to help identify where and how to improve. Someone who isn't married to this same sort of system -- but brings an array of different concepts to the table.

Didn't the team do that this past offseason already?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

Other teams do this same thing. You just don't know it because you don't follow end of the roster transactions of the other 31 teams. The all mighty KC Chiefs have their former draft bust Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Bills favorite Safety Mike Edwards on their PS (who they had and cut twice). The Eagles can't quit WR Quez Watkins. The Colts keep cutting and resigning Laquon Treadwell. And that's with 5 minutes of searching.

Of course everyone does it. How many teams have 10% like that? I could see 5% MAYBE. 2 or 3 guys and not 7 would feel about right. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

We discussed this in another thread earlier in the week. My viewpoint is in line with the OP. I get having a few vets around. I don't get having 15-20% of the roster taking away from younger talent, more athletic talent. It reeks of cowardice how much we fear the other teams offense and value protecting the D at all costs.  Prevent the big play is important, but you should be able to do it without all these old players.

Edited 1 hour ago by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Johnnycage46]

McD overvalues his system. If the guys who we do have aren't great athletes, but know the system, and our D is terrible, how is that better than bringing in great athletes who can just make plays? It's frustrating. Our defense has not been good for several years in a row but we keep rotating these garbage role players through. OR, we sign new guys but give them zero playing time because they don't know the system.

 

End of day, it is better in my opinion to make mistakes with great athleticism and at full speed in football, than to not make mistakes but also not have the talent to be effective at the job.

[jlatas]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

All the players besides, Tre are PS slots. Are we thinking a PS caliber corner is making the difference? This teams fortunes aren’t made or broken by marginal PS slots

I wasnt insinuating that we go get a CB for the PS. I was insinuating that our attentions are more urgent to get a corner on the 53 man roster sooner than later. We are down to 3 on the 53 man plus Dane Jackson on PS. We have a bigger supply of LB's right now on both the 53 and PS. Tre is getting torched and even Benford doesnt seem to be the same guy. To add a rostered corner plus add Hoecht and Ogunjobi next week we will need to cut 3 rostered players. Hopefully, those players can be added to the PS. But that will be harder if Spector is taking a slot already

[Wayne Cubed]

Yea the amount is quite odd. Every team does it but 7 former players is a bit much. Surely you'd want a look at other players who maybe carry traits you don't have on the roster already?

Edited 1 hour ago by Wayne Cubed

[jlatas]

21 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

They looked good in the Jets game. 

You're right...I stand corrected.

[TheBrownBear]

They know the system and are better options than another random guy off the street in a break glass in case of emergency situation. They also know the guys from a character and chemistry standpoint, and probably feel like they can impart some of that "Bills culture" on the younger guys on the 53.

 

Truthfully, how often does any team's practice squad hold some impactful player or diamond in the rough?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Add Hamlin to the list

[The Jokeman]

29 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Where is Hamlin ?

I think I saw him on ST against the Patriots.

[The Wiz]

59 minutes ago, finn said:

Either that or the system itself is the problem, since it just doesn't get results. Hard for players learn and ineffective once they learn it, a situation that might help explain the current state of the Bills defense.

I said the same thing in the Spector thread. 

 

Douglas came in with no knowledge and was just told to ball out, he did.  A year later after learning the playbook he looked completely washed.  Blame age if you want but taking a player and making them play in "your system" vs "utilizing their strengths" is a bad choice.

[No_Matter_What]

I find it crazy how PS guys can get this level of interest on these forums.

 

We are talking about players who see the field so rarely that it doesn't matter.

 

And I don't see any problem with bringing back guys who they know. It is not like they are "occupying a slot" instead of some NFL level players. There aren't such players, since those are on actual NFL rosters.

 

Sorry Kirby but this thread is ridiculous.

[Low Positive]

You guys are just angsty because the Bills lost a game that has dug up a lot of old feelings of helplessness. This loss feels like the end of an era if you lean into the BBFS. But you're lighting torches and busting out the pitchforks over end of the roster moves. I'm not saying that it's wrong to question these moves, but the level of anger is a bit too high for minimal roster moves. Wanna get mad at something? The narrative that gets pushed around here that is actually true is that our WRs cannot separate. It's really obvious from the all-22. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about that. Not about a backup safety and a PS LB.  

 

FWIW, I think Milano will be put in IR very soon. That's why this was done. I would have rather had Josey Jewell too, but they did what they did. Now, go get a WR who can get open. 

[Mat68]

Guys available in October are not changing the fate of the Bills season.  A bottom of the practice squad player who could play if needed.  Jenkins and Charlo beat out Spector.  Jenkins is hurt.  Poyer and Phillips only wanted to play for the Bills.  White is the back up plan at cb.  He is playing due to the injury to Hairston.  With enhanced practice squad allowing vets why not have a handful of guys who have been very good in the system?  Bills still considerable favorites to win the AFC.  Have been one of the best teams the past 5 years. Guys willing to comeback for peanuts who have been paid elsewhere is not a negative.  This is not 7-9 6-10 team bringing back failed players on failed teams.  

[DrDawkinstein]

Perrennial playoff team and last year's AFC Championship game...

 

Should we start bringing in players who cant stick with even lesser teams?

 

Chiefs bring/brought back a bunch of their guys over and over too.

 

Most of our lower level guys go on to start on other teams (Dodson comes to mind immediately).

 

 

3 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

You guys are just angsty because the Bills lost a game that has dug up a lot of old feelings of helplessness. This loss feels like the end of an era if you lean into the BBFS. But you're lighting torches and busting out the pitchforks over end of the roster moves. I'm not saying that it's wrong to question these moves, but the level of anger is a bit too high for minimal roster moves. Wanna get mad at something? The narrative that gets pushed around here that is actually true is that our WRs cannot separate. It's really obvious from the all-22. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about that. Not about a backup safety and a PS LB.  

 

FWIW, I think Milano will be put in IR very soon. That's why this was done. I would have rather had Josey Jewell too, but they did what they did. Now, go get a WR who can get open. 

 

Yeah, Im pretty cranky from Sunday, but for the first time in a long time I cant agree with @Kirby Jackson's take here.

 

Guys like Jordan Phillips straight up told the league "I'm only coming back if the Bills call" and he's willing to come back cheap.

 

This isnt a bad thing.

 

 

[No_Matter_What]

Just now, Low Positive said:

You guys are just angsty because the Bills lost a game that has dug up a lot of old feelings of helplessness. This loss feels like the end of an era if you lean into the BBFS. But you're lighting torches and busting out the pitchforks over end of the roster moves. I'm not saying that it's wrong to question these moves, but the level of anger is a bit too high for minimal roster moves. Wanna get mad at something? The narrative that gets pushed around here that is actually true is that our WRs cannot separate. It's really obvious from the all-22. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about that. Not about a backup safety and a PS LB.  

 

FWIW, I think Milano will be put in IR very soon. That's why this was done. I would have rather had Josey Jewell too, but they did what they did. Now, go get a WR who can get open. 

Spot on. And I'd say it is not only about the one game, I have a feeling that Bills not winning SB last 2-3 years made even posters who are otherwise very smart and rational way too skeptic and critical. Makes me love these forums less than before. 

 

God I hope we win one soon.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said:

Spot on. And I'd say it is not only about the one game, I have a feeling that Bills not winning SB last 2-3 years made even posters who are otherwise very smart and rational way too skeptic and critical. Makes me love these forums less than before. 

 

God I hope we win one soon.

 

I don't think that's fair.   Another way to look at it is - what they've tried the past 4-5 years hasn't ultimately worked, so why not try something else?  It's not like they're bringing back Super Bowl winners here.  These are guys who have PROVEN they can't get it done.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

Other teams do this same thing. You just don't know it because you don't follow end of the roster transactions of the other 31 teams. The all mighty KC Chiefs have their former draft bust Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Bills favorite Safety Mike Edwards on their PS (who they had and cut twice). The Eagles can't quit WR Quez Watkins. The Colts keep cutting and resigning Laquon Treadwell. And that's with 5 minutes of searching.

 

Every team in the league values system guys. The Bills are probably at the upper echelon of that but you are definitely right to point out it is not unique to them. 

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Spot on. And I'd say it is not only about the one game, I have a feeling that Bills not winning SB last 2-3 years made even posters who are otherwise very smart and rational way too skeptic and critical. Makes me love these forums less than before. 

 

God I hope we win one soon.

It's a response to wanting something very much over which we have no control. And then when the people who do have control make decisions that we don't agree with, the anger boils over because we have no way to impact the decisions and/or the outcomes.