The Refs and this “rigged” league

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

36 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

It's not the ones they called against us. They called a tight game for one team. But the other team was holding all night and got zero calls against them. Every time Maye rolled right and made those great plays (and they were great plays), the was aided by clear and obvious holds by the Pats OL. 

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but the Pats are owned by the most powerful owner in the league and he was in the house. And for people who say calls don't win or lose the game, imagine a world where they let the slight OPI on Shakir go in the red zone. It would have been 3-1 from the NE 7 instead of 2-13 from the NE 19. That call was followed by the INT that, in retrospect, decided the game.

 

I've been watching the play on the all-22 and yes, Shakir starts blocking before the ball hits Knox's hands. But a) they let that go all the time; and b) the flag comes in LATE, after the play is pretty much over. It's like the ref was looking for a reason to throw a flag. I wish I could embed the video, but you can see it here for the next two days. I think.

 

https://streamable.com/51dywn

 

Shakir is legally allowed to block before the throw is completed if he's within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage. It looked like he was 1.5 yards downfield when he started blocking. Wild that the back-judge threw the flag when he wouldn't have any depth perception on how far downfield Shakir was. 

 

By the strictest possible interpretation of the rule it was MAYBE  penalty. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Refs had nothing to do with the 3 turnovers. Can't turn it over that much & win. 

[muppy]

2 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Officiating was atrocious throughout. Game should never have been defined nor decided by them though. 
 

Bigger mistakes and awful play contributed to the loss more than the refs. 

I would Love to drag the refs and blame them for the loss. It would remove responsibility for the loss from the players

 

I can't do it

 

 

It doesn't feel good as a fan to see calls we think are unfair. it sucks. But aren't  officials in retrospect  graded on Their performance too ?

 

Its the NFL. My solace is I don't think it is only the Bills who are  the recipients of questionable flags. Calls AND Non calls too

 

Not just Us. 

[PromoTheRobot]

35 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

They showed on the broadcast most of those penalties (OPI, several blocking down field, IC, Kincaid's holding, Bernard late hit), and the Bills did commit them. Can't complain about the penalties when the team does in fact flat out commit them. 
 

IIRC there was one holding, maybe on 66, that was iffy. 

 

I was at the game and obviously couldn't get a good look. But it's hard to imagine a team that isn't usually penalized go all scorched earth in one game at home.

[pennstate10]

20 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

And not only was he early (see above), when you play it out he's got two hands full of jersey/shoulder pads. That was OPI AND Holding.

Can’t see the guy number but I’m pretty sure that was 18. He was holding right at the point of attack. 
 

I didn’t know Bills were 1-5 in their last 6 games hochuki officiated. If I’m McBeane, I point that out to league offfice and tell the tv crew that stat in the preproduction meeting. 

[entropyrules]

Its not so much a fix from the league but the unconscious bias the refs (and this incudes hockey too-of course with the Sabres the way they play doesn't help) have toward Buffalo. The constant negative rantings of the media toward all things Buffalo ultimately has an impact on how people in general view anything associated with WNY. Think about the number of people you have run into during your lifetime that when you mention you grew up in or near Buffalo and their reaction especially when they have never been to or spent any time in Buffalo.

[Goin Breakdown]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I was at the game and obviously couldn't get a good look. But it's hard to imagine a team that isn't usually penalized go all scorched earth in one game at home.

Last week was pretty brutal too

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I was at the game and obviously couldn't get a good look. But it's hard to imagine a team that isn't usually penalized go all scorched earth in one game at home.

Normally I agree, especially with Hoch, but to my eyes 7/8 of the 10 were legit IMO. 
 

Sloppy game. 

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

You will not convince me otherwise after that joke last night. 
 

The network (thus the league) had its narrative ready and did everything they could to make the team that lost at home to Vegas and Pittsburgh relevant again.  
 

Robert Kraft was in attendance.  Is that normal for him on road games?
 

You will not see a playoff game with 11 TOTAL penalties let alone 11 on one team.  Yea they threw some on NE in the 2nd half but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t “fix it” later.

 

 

THEY THREW A FLAG ON THE FINAL KICK RETURN.  That was just in case we returned it for a TD.  

 

Holding calls that were beyond questionable and will NEVER be called in January.  
 

Our WRs NEVER are interfered with.  Amazing considering how much man we see.  
 

NE never held on ANY passes - did I miss one?   
 

 

This isn’t a “blame the refs” for the loss either.  You can take it that way but we had a chance to win.  Then Shakir got mugged and the network did a great job showing why that wasn’t a DPI.  Total joke.  
 

Not a blame the refs.  You just won’t convince me otherwise that when this league needs something done for a team it will get done.  
 

 

Knew this thread would be coming after the 1st loss(and every subsequent loss) of the season. 😂😂😂

[PayDaBill$]

Last night was the Hochuli show he needs to get his guns air time.  It completely ruined the game flow and experience.  The NFL needs to look at this clowns crew.

4 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Normally I agree, especially with Hoch, but to my eyes 7/8 of the 10 were legit IMO. 
 

Sloppy game. 

Sometimes you keep the flag in your pocket, if it’s not egregious… you can make calls on almost every play if you look hard enough.

Edited 2 hours ago by PayDaBill$

[Sojourner]

12 minutes ago, muppy said:

I would Love to drag the refs and blame them for the loss. It would remove responsibility for the loss from the players

 

I can't do it

 

 

It doesn't feel good as a fan to see calls we think are unfair. it sucks. But aren't  officials in retrospect  graded on Their performance too ?

 

Its the NFL. My solace is I don't think it is only the Bills who are  the recipients of questionable flags. Calls AND Non calls too

 

Not just Us. 

Exactly Muppy, every team has them. Some more than others. 
 

There’s enough talent on this team to overcome them with reasonably adequate play. 
 

Many will disagree but unless it is a game ending call that is suspicious or invalid, I feel blaming the refs is an ultimate cop out for a collective let down on the W/L column. 

[paulmm3]

Little statistical analysis here. Since Shawn Hochuli came into the league the Bills are 1-5 in regular season plus posteason games officiated by Hochuli. The Bills are 88-44 over this time span in all regular season plus postseason games (so 87-39 if you exclude Hochuli games).

 

We can set up a 2x2 contingency table

	W	L	Total
With Hochuli	1	5	6
Without Hochuli	87	39	126
Total	88	44	132

 

The null hypothesis for this analysis is that there is no difference between Shawn Hochuli and other crews - that is all crews call Bills games the same and Bills are equally likely to win no matter who the referee is. Running Fisher's exact test on this data gives a p value of 0.0157. This means there is a 1.57% chance that the Bills could randomly be 1-5 with Hochuli and 87-39 with all other officials. Meaning there's a 98.4% chance Shawn Hochuli is biased against the Bills to a statistically significant degree. Meaning Shawn Hochuli is biased against the Bills.

Edited 1 hour ago by paulmm3

[BRH]

I believe someone pointed out last night that there was a four-year gap between games that Hochuli officiated for us.  Like between 2018-2022.  Is that true and if so, what was going on there?  And one of his first games back with us was that debacle in Philly in 2023, where he flagged Josh for IG instead of calling RTP.

 

It just seemed like every time they had to make a call against the Pats — especially the blatantly obvious ones where the Pats lost their minds on back-to-back plays roughing Allen and Cook — Hochuli called them together for a lengthier-than-normal conference.  Almost like he was hoping to be able to make offsetting calls rather than give the Bills 15.  And the one time he DID make an offsetting call, it was on a critical third down to gave the Pats a do-over that they converted … and Hochuli seemed like he was almost smirking when he announced it.

 

Last night not only did Shakir get mugged, but Josh got hit in the head after he threw it.  You could see Josh direct an F-bomb in Hochuli’s direction before walking off the field, and I would love to know what else he said.  My guess it was along the lines of “what else would we expect from you?”

 

I’m with the people who think the league needs some drama in the division.  This was really their only chance at creating it.  The Jets have turned out to be a complete tire fire, the Dolphins are donezo (and not even an interesting watch) without Tyreek… so the Pats and Maye were the league’s last chance this year at keeping things “interesting.”

 

It’s not an accident that we got Land Clark and Shawn Hochuli these last two weeks.  It’s just not.

[Sojourner]

36 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Normally I agree, especially with Hoch, but to my eyes 7/8 of the 10 were legit IMO. 
 

Sloppy game. 

Only egregious one was the “wide open Samuel TD” throw to Shakir on third down. 
 

Was borderline 50/50 at best. Call should go to the offensive side if so. 

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, BRH said:

You could see Josh direct an F-bomb in Hochuli’s direction before walking off the field, and I would love to know what else he said.  My guess it was along the lines of “what else would we expect from you?”

 

 

I thought he was yelling at the guy that hit him, who was chirping at the time.

 

4 minutes ago, paulmm3 said:

The null hypothesis for this analysis is that there is no difference between Shawn Hochuli and other crews - that is all crews call Bills games the same and Bills are equally likely to win no matter who the referee is. Running Fisher's exact test on this data gives a p value of 0.0157. This means there is a 1.57% chance that the Bills could randomly be 1-5 with Hochuli and 87-39 with all other officials. Meaning there's a 98.4% chance Shawn Hochuli is biased against the Bills to a statistically significant degree. Meaning Shawn Hochuli is biased against the Bills.

 

I bet dollars to doughnuts that if you created a chart based on the number of penalties called against the Bills by Hochuli vs the number they draw on average, you would find a very similar result, which is even more damming than W/L, imo.

[Success]

Has anyone talked about the 5 second play at the end of the 1st half that somehow only took 3 seconds on the clock?

 

[RobbRiddick]

Apparently all the zebras from last night were seen out in Buffalo, each with a Thai 'girlfriend'. they're all friends of Robert Kraft. I think he's just a passionate match maker

[LABILLBACKER]

19 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I thought he was yelling at the guy that hit him, who was chirping at the time.

 

 

I bet dollars to doughnuts that if you created a chart based on the number of penalties called against the Bills by Hochuli vs the number they draw on average, you would find a very similar result, which is even more damming than W/L, imo.

Since 2018, Hochuli calls more penalties per game 10.3 than the league average against the Bills which is 6.4

That's not a coincidence....

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, PonyBoy said:

About 25 years ago I heard on a radio show that 80% of NFL games were decided by 7 points or less. 

 

The year the Chargers went 1-15, six of those games were decided by 7 points or less. 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, paulmm3 said:

Little statistical analysis here. Since Shawn Hochuli came into the league the Bills are 1-5 in regular season plus posteason games officiated by Hochuli. The Bills are 88-44 over this time span in all regular season plus postseason games (so 87-39 if you exclude Hochuli games).

 

We can set up a 2x2 contingency table

	W	L	Total
With Hochuli	1	5	6
Without Hochuli	87	39	126
Total	88	44	132

 

The null hypothesis for this analysis is that there is no difference between Shawn Hochuli and other crews - that is all crews call Bills games the same and Bills are equally likely to win no matter who the referee is. Running Fisher's exact test on this data gives a p value of 0.0157. This means there is a 1.57% chance that the Bills could randomly be 1-5 with Hochuli and 87-39 with all other officials. Meaning there's a 98.4% chance Shawn Hochuli is biased against the Bills to a statistically significant degree. Meaning Shawn Hochuli is biased against the Bills.

 

Now do one for all other teams/games he's officiated to see which teams he favors. 

[Walking Tall]

My question is this……

 

If you believe it is a rigged league, why would you waste your time and money to watch it?