NOW is Bobby Babich's seat hot?

[Low Positive]

Another thing. Posters want young players to get chances and reps to grow through their mistakes so that they can be ready for end of the season. There are constant complaints that McDermott won't play young players. But then these same posters declare these same young players busts for the predictable mistakes and fire the coaches for the lack of performance. 

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, nuiwek said:

Holy hell, we're only a quarter of the way through the season playing many young guys. Maybe they get better, maybe they don't but 4 games isnt gonna tell you whether it's going to be better or not

When it looks the same as it always has it gives you a pretty good indication that you are going to get more of the same... 

[nuiwek]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

When it looks the same as it always has it gives you a pretty good indication that you are going to get more of the same... 

Alright Debbie downer

[BillsVet]

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Here's how McD defenses have performed over the years...

 

 

The Bills D's have normally been in the Top Ten and been ranked as high as #1.  So why is this a subpar year?  

 

If I had to apportion blame, I'd do it as follows:

 

1.  Beane.  This is not one of our best rosters.

 

2.  Injuries & Suspensions.  We're missing guys - including arguably our two best players.

 

3.  Babich & McD.  There have been some questionable defensive calls.  And sometimes players are missing assignments which suggests they haven't been coached up adequately.  On the other hand, they play hard and - given the talent on the field - may be overperforming statistically.  

 

Yards per game is a relevant statistic, but it hides that their run defense is 31st with 164.3 yards allowed per game.  Until Buffalo proves they can stop the run, teams aren't gonna be throwing it as much.  And that's what inflates their yards allowed per game standing.  

 

But I do agree that #1 is a big problem.  The GM's forays into UFA generally leave a lot to be desired while burning valuable cap.  

 

As to 2...I think it's time to note that injuries at LB and DT are a common theme going back a few years.  They've attempted to mitigate this by signing more depth at the positions, but it'll never go away because those LBs need to cover in that scheme, but with a vulnerability to the run, teams are gonna run it more.  And that means more tackling and the potential for injury to LBs especially.    

 

And 3...Babich has been here coaching defense for 8 seasons now under McD.  You'd expect he doesn't need the HC holding his hand more given that experience.  It's definitely a hot seat level right now considering he's not a newbie. 

[CNYfan]

I am at work and did not read the entire thread but NOLA was not a good effort.

But too many men on the field twice, too few men on the field, and at least 1/2 dozen plays where guys were moving all around, waving their arms, pointing this way and that in total confusion.

Plus, just ugly defense.  

Not good, Bob.  

Edited Wednesday at 10:46 AM by CNYfan
grammar

[HamptonBillsfan]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

and that is what makes this board great... if we all thought alike how boring would this be lol....  I think I elaborated on why I dont think a pass for babich is right... you do not agree... fair enough...  heck I am not even pointing and saying I am right and you are wrong.... (I understand nor are you)  hey I could be dead wrong here.... but I don't think I am... time will tell as it always does... thanks for the good discussion! 

Well said, that’s how the board should work.  In the end his success or failure will be determined by the team overcoming injuries and improving as the season wears on. I’m also not saying your argument is not correct because I have thought to myself players have not been coached up effectively ( Rousseau, Bishop, Epenesa, Williams,) or replaced if necessary.

[GASabresIUFan]

My gut reaction to this thread was that given the injuries, the team's 4-0 start and the actual solid performance in the passing game defense, that there is no way Babich on the hot seat.  However, I then thought of our old friend Ken Dorsey.  Dorsey was fired after week 10 and a 5-5 start by the Bills.  The 2023 Bills started 3-1 with the lone loss in OT to the Jets week 1.  However, the offense sputtered over the next 6 weeks averaging only 20.5 pts a week. 

 

Brady took over and the team won 6 of the next 7 games and won the division. 

 

So given the poor rush defense and poor tackling, would McBeane make a DC change despite a 4-0 start?  As discussed earlier, much of the rushing yards against (180 - 170 of the yards to mobile QBs Rattler, Fields, Jackson) to mobile QBs.  

 

Ultimately, I think Babich's seat will only get hot if the Bills start to lose and with an offense scoring 30+ a game, I don't see that happening. 

[DaggersEOD]

It’s like you’ve never watched a WWF / WWE wrestling match.
 

The Hero always has to have a moment of doubt before they beat the bad guys. 

[JP51]

15 minutes ago, nuiwek said:

Alright Debbie downer

LOL maybe you are right maybe you arent... here is my thing... and I posted it before way back... is this Babich, maybe.... Is this Beane and the personnel choices maybe is it McD... again maybe I tend to think its all three....  I believe this... to win a Superbowl we need the Defense to improve... to this point i am not seeing it... the overall concern is what you have is an outdated version of a McD defense that worked for him 10 years ago... Babich to me is simply implementing that defense... from my perspective regardless if it is McD or Babich we need to get a defensive mind in here that can reimagine what we are doing... that means I think Babiches seat should be hot... Debbie Downer LOL... I guess if that is how you see it... from my perspective not so much... we seem to get the same type of result year over year that is fine in the regular season but gets us in the end...  we only have so many years of Josh left, for me I want something different on defense... 

[HerdMenatlity1]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

What if I told you that the defense actually played pretty decently against the Saints?

 

- Under 300 yards of offense allowed

- Only 109 passing yards, 3.5 yards per pass

- Allowed 5 conversions on 15 attempts on 3rd and 4th down (33%)

- 1 Interception, 3 sacks, and a forced fumble

 

Yeah, the rushing yards allowed were not great, but the overall production and defense was not bad.

 

If you look at the last 3 drives of the 1st half for the Saints, and the beginning drive of the 2nd half, it went like this:

Josh throws a pick, and the Saints take over at the 50-yard line. We hold them to a punt. The offense can't do anything with the ball, so we punt. 

The Saints take over at their 30-yard line, and we hold them to a FG. We get the kickoff and can't do anything with it, again, so we punt.

The Saints take over at OUR 40-yard line. Their last drive of the half. They were trying to double-dip (they get the ball to start the 2nd half). We get an int. 

So, to end the half the Saints started 2 those 3 drives at the 50 or inside the 50 and we gave up 3 points and screwed up their double-dip strategy. 

Saints get the 2nd half kick-off. We make them punt. We come down to score a TD, basically screwing the double-dip attempt (thanks defense). 

Pretty sure we didn't make a 4th down attempt to begin the 4th, and the Saints got the ball at... the 50 yard-line again (WTF, offense?!). 

The defense basically bailing out the offense. But of course, that's not how some here see it. Hint: it's the same group of complainers.

We may not win the Dolphins game w/o the defensive play to cause a late int. The offense wasn't exactly tearing it up that game. 

How many FF during the Jets game? At least 3. Two by Bosa and one by Cam Lewis. 

We don't beat the Ravens without the defense forcing the big fumble by Henry. Those that choose to call it lucky, well, what is there to say?! AND, we held them to 0 points in the pivotal 4th qt. That's nothing to sneeze at. 

The defense has played a very important part in all 4 victories. And we are still waiting on 3/4 very important pieces to return in Milano, Hoecht, Hairston and Oliver. At least let the defense play together as a whole before wanting to get rid of a coach.

 

[Augie]

40 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Another thing. Posters want young players to get chances and reps to grow through their mistakes so that they can be ready for end of the season. There are constant complaints that McDermott won't play young players. But then these same posters declare these same young players busts for the predictable mistakes and fire the coaches for the lack of performance. 

 

I’d say that sums it up quite well! 

 

Trying to create a lose/lose proposition, so they can be right.

 

We are far from perfect, but we are the only 4-0 team in the AFC, and one of two in the league. Our suckitude is being overrated. Let’s work on things, let the new guys learn and the unavailable return. I hope we are fully healthy for the playoffs so it’s more fair to judge. 

 

 

.

Edited Tuesday at 08:07 PM by Augie

[Nihilarian]

NFN, from what we have seen in the difference between Brian Daboll and Joe Brady, is that this HC gives his assistants room to do what they want. Daboll was a passing specialist and had very little interest in running the ball. This has been his undoing with the Giants, as trading away Saquon Barkley to a division rival who went on to use him to win a Super Bowl. How that clown kept his job as HC is beyond me. 

 

Anyway, my take is that Babich is working on building the defense his way, and that takes time, considering all the newcomers and injuries. I say at least give him half a season to see what happens before more talk of hot seats. JMHO

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Well, after three more games, after I posted an OP asking if Babich was on the hot seat, just before the Jets game, I am definitely moving very quickly now to thinking this dreadful defensive performance we have seen to start the year is now very likely the result of some awful coaching. I want to see where Bills’ fans on here stand now, three weeks later.

 

While I am not 100% convinced that Babich is the fundamental problem as I was completely convinced with dorsey, after almost 1/4 of the season now is in the books the needle is definitely moving rapidly in that direction. 90% maybe? It has been almost a shocking defensive collapse to begin the year.

 

 Do people think that this defense looks better than last year's and is improving weekly?:

 

--Do they think it is showing clear progress early in the season, with their weaknesses being fixed, smoothed out? And their strengths becoming more pronounced?

 

--Are there clear signs that most of the very weak aspects of the defense last year are better now--and getting better as this young season progresses?  For example, their overall 3rd down efficiency, their run defense, their tackling, the pass rush, the play calling?

 

--Is Babich making solid half time adjustments that improve things overall at the start of the 2nd half?

 

--And most importantly, do players look prepared, disciplined, confident and ready--and are they playing to their potential as individuals and as units?

 

 

To me the, and almost across the board, the answers are no. And too often, a resounding, hell no.  

 

In fact, the defense looks more consistently bad this year than last year, making teams like the dolphins and saints look unstoppable for the majority of those games. The dolphins and saints. At HOME  With tens of thousands of loud rabid fans making their life easier.

 

A friend said, well it's because Oliver has not been in there, and Milano, and the suspended guys too.  But that seems really off--the Bills in the past, and the other good teams, readily overcome those types of player losses.  Maybe they show some more gaps in their defense, but they almost never collapse.  And the startling consistency of the weaknesses of this year and last year throw cold water on that, to me. 

 

Watching the last two games, against teams that are not world beaters, and both AT HOME,  both opposing offenses seemed to get better and better against this defense as the games progressed, not worse.  It often seemed like the Bills had no answers, with gaping holes in the secondary, gaping holes against the run, big spacial voids all over the field, all game long, horrible tackling, players looking out of position consistently---and that lost, confused look we too often saw on the faces of offensive players as dorsey 'progressed' in his tenure--and especially in his last year: "What is going on out here? We have no asnwers," sums up those looks.

 

Yes, the Bills are 4-0, but this is not in any way a championship defense--they cannot rely on big splash plays to win games, at the end of games, on defense all year. And not on the road, and not against the top teams. Not consistently. That will not work. All of the team’s hopes for this season, and ours, will be dashed IF this type of defense is allowed to continue. 

 

To me, right now, this really looks like a very very poorly coached defense in almost all respects.  And if I see this, and if I am right, then McDermott knows it, but in a much more specific, detailed manner just how poorly Babich is leading this defense. And ditto for Brandon Beane--does Beane think with the players he provided that the defense should have these kinds of fundamental flaws in so many areas--again?  I would bet the answer is NO. This is why I am convinced that Babich's seat is extremely hot, burning.

 

Why did they look so different against the Jets, prepared, disciplined, tackling well, in position.... I think after awful weeks for the defense, like we saw against the Ravens, or in important games, like the Denver playoff game, McDermott has basically taken over for his young DC.

 

The Bills don't need a great defense to be champions this year, and maybe not even a very good one--just a good one. 

 

But, so far, this defense looks fundamentally flawed.  Awful even, and a great deal of the time.

 

I think Babich's seat is extraordinarily hot now.  A few more games, one?, like we have just seen and McDermott should take over. Our great offense was on a death march under dorsey. Before the season I said he would be gone by Halloween. That season they quiuckly were falling out of the playoff race, and almost there as the season regressed. Don Orlovsky said our offense, with Josh Allen leading it, had become ‘the easiest offense in the NFL to defend’.  But McDermott stepped in, and made the kind of dramatic change most thought he would not make.  Then, in one week, one, the offense looked like world beaters—again--and were that way for the rest of the season.  I think the same thing may very well be needed very soon with Babich. And  it could have the same effects.  They won’t be a great defense, not there yet, with the young players and changes, but I am convinced the defense will show the same kind of improvement that we saw when Brady took over the offense.

 

Even if you are not on board that Babich is the main problem, isn’t it hard  for you to imagine this defense not playing dramatically better with any high quaity defensive coordinator like Schwartz, Spagnuolo—or a McDermott coaching them? To me the answer here is hell yes.

 

 

I’d argue there’s a big difference between Dorsey’s offense in 2023 and Babich’s defense in 2025.
 

Dorsey’s offense has been struggling to score 20 points over a stretch of about 6 weeks.  McDermott wants “balance” on offense and Dorsey kept forcing passing concepts which routinely didn’t work.  Plus Josh was turning the ball over.  
 

Babich is running a defense that’s a variation of what McDermott ran in 2023.  It’s clear they are taking more chances with man coverage and blitzing etc.  In 4 games the results have been mixed.  Also McDermott knows his defense.  The players they were relying on to rush the passer largely haven’t besides Bosa.  
 

So so think Babich gets more time but yes, if things don’t change and they lose a few games, I can see McDermott taking over the play calling reigns 

[Simon]

43 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

It’s like you’ve never watched a WWF / WWE wrestling match.
 

The Hero always has to have a moment of doubt before they beat the bad guys. 

 

Can't we just be the Road Warriors?

[BullBuchanan]

I like what I'm seeing out of the defense so far. They aren't playing consistently well, but they have been playing situationally well. They also aren't trotting out the same tired scheme for the last 7 years hoping it'll work this time. They're blitzing the most I've ever seen from them, they're running 4-3 alignments, and they're simulating lots of pressure.

They need to be more consistent in pass rush and they need to prevent chunk running plays. Hopefully they can figure that out.

I give them more praise than heat thus far and I give them a ton of props for trying something that's capable of having success in January and February.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

When it looks the same as it always has it gives you a pretty good indication that you are going to get more of the same... 

Does it look the same to you? All the man coverage and blitzing? The 3 linebacker sets? That looks like the same defense to you?

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

LOL maybe you are right maybe you arent... here is my thing... and I posted it before way back... is this Babich, maybe.... Is this Beane and the personnel choices maybe is it McD... again maybe I tend to think its all three....  I believe this... to win a Superbowl we need the Defense to improve... to this point i am not seeing it... the overall concern is what you have is an outdated version of a McD defense that worked for him 10 years ago... Babich to me is simply implementing that defense... from my perspective regardless if it is McD or Babich we need to get a defensive mind in here that can reimagine what we are doing... that means I think Babiches seat should be hot... Debbie Downer LOL... I guess if that is how you see it... from my perspective not so much... we seem to get the same type of result year over year that is fine in the regular season but gets us in the end...  we only have so many years of Josh left, for me I want something different on defense... 

 

Honest question...  In what way is the McD defense "outmoded"? 

 

It seems to me, as a non-expert in Xs and Os, that we may employ Cover 2 and Cover 3 more than other teams, but other teams play Cover 2 and 3 as well.  McD hasn't invented anything new defensively, nor does he cling to some defensive scheme that otherwise went extinct 20 years ago.  

 

We can run through a list of McD tendencies: more zone, more nickel, and fewer blitzes than some other teams.  But the defensive playbook he uses, and the schemes he employs, are - as far as I know - pretty standard.

[Governor]

 Babich was a mess in the recent press conference so he’s definitely feeling the heat. He wasn’t making any sense at all. In the coming weeks it should be simplified at the very least. There’s continuous confusion pre-snap and our guys have no idea what they’re supposed to do. 
 

A decision should be made right after the Chiefs game.

Edited Tuesday at 09:04 PM by Governor

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

Another thing. Posters want young players to get chances and reps to grow through their mistakes so that they can be ready for end of the season. There are constant complaints that McDermott won't play young players. But then these same posters declare these same young players busts for the predictable mistakes and fire the coaches for the lack of performance. 

I have a hard time understanding how people can think Babich is on the hot seat.  After last season it seemed clear to most people that the Bills personnel needed upgrading.  And that is what they intended to do.   

 

The D was missing 5 key players (without Ed, Milano, Hairston, Hoecht, and the answer at safety (I believe they have never intended on Rapp being the safety in the postseason).  That's 5 players out of 11.  That's just about half the starting lineup.

 

Generally holding a team to 19 points is considered a good job by the D.   The "fire them all" crew is looking for style points whereas Babich/McD are just in it for the W.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I have a hard time understanding how people can think Babich is on the hot seat.  After last season it seemed clear to most people that the Bills personnel needed upgrading.  And that is what they intended to do.   

 

The D was missing 5 key players (without Ed, Milano, Hairston, Hoecht, and the answer at safety (I believe they have never intended on Rapp being the safety in the postseason).  That's 5 players out of 11.  That's just about half the starting lineup.

 

Generally holding a team to 19 points is considered a good job by the D.   The "fire them all" crew is looking for style points whereas Babich/McD are just in it for the W.

 

 

This is why. The defense was a mess regardless of what players were available.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

 

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

I am at work and did read the entire thread but NOLA was not a good effort.

But too many men on the field twice, two few men on the field, and at least 1/2 dozen plays where guys were moving all around, waving their arms, pointing this way and that in total confusion.

Plus, just ugly defense.  

Not good, Bob.