Game week thread - Pats at Bills SNF

[Metal Man]

6 hours ago, ElMarko said:

The Bills are currently rated #1 in the NFL with the least amount of passing yards allowed after 4 games. What’s the team’s problem again? 

 

Some of these kinds of stats can be a little misleading though. When you're one of the worst in the league in giving up rush yards it will affect how teams attack you.

 

Then the question is are the Bills actually very good defending against the pass or are opposing teams just not bothering to pass as much against Buffalo because it is so easy to run on them?

[Gregg]

20 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

It's officially New York Vs Massachusetts week.

 

New York has the MVP's.  

 

Going to be an awesome week!

 

Let's Go Yankees. Let's Go Bills.

[Not at the table Karlos]

6 hours ago, ElMarko said:

The Bills are currently rated #1 in the NFL with the least amount of passing yards allowed after 4 games. What’s the team’s problem again? 

They’ve played 3 of the worst QBs in the league and allowed 8.2 yards a rush in the ravens game. If the ravens wanted to pass they could have. 

[BananaB]

Maye probably gonna have a day against this D. Hope we win so the Baby Goat bull#### don’t start again like it did with Mac

[PromoTheRobot]

57 minutes ago, Metal Man said:

 

Some of these kinds of stats can be a little misleading though. When you're one of the worst in the league in giving up rush yards it will affect how teams attack you.

 

Then the question is are the Bills actually very good defending against the pass or are opposing teams just not bothering to pass as much against Buffalo because it is so easy to run on them?

 

It's well known the Bills would rather give up rushing yards than passing yards. You let teams run all over you between the 20's but you don't allow them a TD. 

 

It's also worth noting team's will have success on their first couple drives before we adjust. How many times have we lost our minds seeing a team drive to a touchdown on their first drive, then do nothing the rest of the game?

[Rockinon]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Im counting on Ed & Hoecht to help.  Both typically available and both very good players. 

 

Ogunjobi is a flyer as a guy who was very good last time he was in our style of Defense. 
 

I can’t count on Hairston or Milano.  We don’t know the actual severity/timeline of Hairstons injury and even when he is a go, who knows if he can get enough reps to help us.   Milano just can’t stay on the field.  
 

If I’m Beane, I’m operating as if CB2 (White/Strong), LB (Milano), S (Rapp) and EDGE (Everyone but Bosa) could use an upgrade before the trade deadline should a move make sense at any of those positions. 

The last game, Tre was playing a few snaps at safety. Not sure if that's the beginning of a new trend, but he does have some good traits for the position. Could be a sneakily good move...

[PaattMaann]

I think some people here have absolute insane expectations for our defense, especially after just 4 weeks where we have seen two of our best defenders missing multiple games (ed and Milano), our 1st round CB not taken a snap, and two major offseason additions suspended for the first 6 games and not playing. LOL. Oh and we have a top 10 pass defense.

 

FACTS:

McD defenses have ALWAYS been soft on the run, BY DESIGN! We want you to run the ball. Please, run the ball all you want. We would rather have you run than have explosive pass plays. That. Is. What. We. Want! You will never see this defense have big space eating DTs who are dominant against the run, thats not who we draft, thats not who we sign. 

 

Our defense thrives on negative plays and takeaways. We are OK giving up yards because we are hunting for a negative play that puts the opponents behind the sticks at some point and the drive stalls out. We are looking for turnovers, and ALWAYS get them. McD defenses have been causing turnovers regularly since his arrival in Buffalo (and before that). It isn't an accident, it isn't a fluke. It is preached and practiced. It is successful. You know what stat is the most predictive when it comes to wins in the NFL, TURNOVERS!

 

The defense this year has not been as bad as many think. For some reason many have whack expectations. We just held a team to under 20 points and under 300 total yards, under 150 passing yards. You do that and your going to win every game. It does not matter who the opponent was, its a week to week league and every team is going to give us their A+ effort. 

 

 

Against the Patriots

We will do what it takes to win the game. Will they run on us? Sure, see above. Will we get a turnover, and likely a timely one, Sure, see above. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to get the job done. 

 

[stevewin]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Babich's problem isn't predictability. His problem is intent, or lack thereof. He seems to think that if you just call a wide variety of plays out of the same look, that is enough to get the opponent off balance. "Oh ho ho, last time we had six guys at the line we sent all six, but THIS time we're only sending four! Good luck Spenc- ah he just scrambled right through the vacated gap for 15 yards."

 

You can't just call plays to call plays. Every play, especially on money downs, you need to anticipate what the opposing OC likes to call in those situations, what the opposing QB likes to do in those situations, and beat them to the punch. So when for example you face a backup caliber QB that likes to throw to his first read or use his legs, you account for it in your play call. You don't blitz while playing off coverage on his best WR as if to signal with a big neon sign "THROW THE BALL HERE." You don't drop both LBs out of the A gaps and leave a wide open lane up the middle for him to plod through.

 

Multiplicity is great and I'm happy the Bills are throwing more pressure looks to make up for coverage issues popping up on the back end, but having a larger playbook doesn't automatically win you games. You still have to call the appropriate plays at appropriate times. The goal of calling the defense is to confuse the opponent and goad them into mistakes. Lately it's more common that we're confusing ourselves.

Some good discussion on this page on the defense.  One of Babich's favorite lines in PCs this year as reason for defense not performing is some variation of "the rush is not in sync with the back end".  It seems he says it every week.  I don't know why he can't fix it.

 

To go along with that, as has been mentioned, even when the play call is good (and presumably the 'rush is in sync with the back end'), guys are just missing tackles.  After the Dolphins game I saw an analysis of a bunch of the 3rd and long plays that were given up and in each case the call worked perfectly (corner blitz, simulated pressure etc) and in each case some guy was right there to make the play and whiffed.  One thing Babich and McD are always careful to do is never throw an individual under the bus and when asked about a play that later is revealed to be a simple poor individual tackle attempt etc they always describe as an 'execution' issue

 

I'm also starting to get a little skeptical on Babich - esp when every week he says the same things about getting off the field on third down, gap integrity, 'rush in sync with back end'.  My hope is that with people out and rookies playing etc the defense we are seeing now is not the one we will see at the end of the year and in the playoffs (one thing that gave me hope in preseason was Babich mentioning the defense needing to get off the field quick this year to get the ball in Josh's hands, which seemed to indicate a more aggressive approach - but we haven't seen it so far)

[NI Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

I think some people here have absolute insane expectations for our defense, especially after just 4 weeks where we have seen two of our best defenders missing multiple games (ed and Milano), our 1st round CB not taken a snap, and two major offseason additions suspended for the first 6 games and not playing. LOL. Oh and we have a top 10 pass defense.

 

FACTS:

McD defenses have ALWAYS been soft on the run, BY DESIGN! We want you to run the ball. Please, run the ball all you want. We would rather have you run than have explosive pass plays. That. Is. What. We. Want! You will never see this defense have big space eating DTs who are dominant against the run, thats not who we draft, thats not who we sign. 

 

Our defense thrives on negative plays and takeaways. We are OK giving up yards because we are hunting for a negative play that puts the opponents behind the sticks at some point and the drive stalls out. We are looking for turnovers, and ALWAYS get them. McD defenses have been causing turnovers regularly since his arrival in Buffalo (and before that). It isn't an accident, it isn't a fluke. It is preached and practiced. It is successful. You know what stat is the most predictive when it comes to wins in the NFL, TURNOVERS!

 

The defense this year has not been as bad as many think. For some reason many have whack expectations. We just held a team to under 20 points and under 300 total yards, under 150 passing yards. You do that and your going to win every game. It does not matter who the opponent was, its a week to week league and every team is going to give us their A+ effort. 

 

 

Against the Patriots

We will do what it takes to win the game. Will they run on us? Sure, see above. Will we get a turnover, and likely a timely one, Sure, see above. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to get the job done. 

 

Whilst I don't disagree with any of that, which is a very good summary of McDermott's philiosophy, I think the fear is that the bend don't break and rely on timely turnovers, is much more likely to completely break against the better teams that we will face, especially in the post season (as recent history has shown).

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

I think some people here have absolute insane expectations for our defense, especially after just 4 weeks where we have seen two of our best defenders missing multiple games (ed and Milano), our 1st round CB not taken a snap, and two major offseason additions suspended for the first 6 games and not playing. LOL. Oh and we have a top 10 pass defense.

 

FACTS:

McD defenses have ALWAYS been soft on the run, BY DESIGN! We want you to run the ball. Please, run the ball all you want. We would rather have you run than have explosive pass plays. That. Is. What. We. Want! You will never see this defense have big space eating DTs who are dominant against the run, thats not who we draft, thats not who we sign. 

 

Our defense thrives on negative plays and takeaways. We are OK giving up yards because we are hunting for a negative play that puts the opponents behind the sticks at some point and the drive stalls out. We are looking for turnovers, and ALWAYS get them. McD defenses have been causing turnovers regularly since his arrival in Buffalo (and before that). It isn't an accident, it isn't a fluke. It is preached and practiced. It is successful. You know what stat is the most predictive when it comes to wins in the NFL, TURNOVERS!

 

The defense this year has not been as bad as many think. For some reason many have whack expectations. We just held a team to under 20 points and under 300 total yards, under 150 passing yards. You do that and your going to win every game. It does not matter who the opponent was, its a week to week league and every team is going to give us their A+ effort. 

 

 

Against the Patriots

We will do what it takes to win the game. Will they run on us? Sure, see above. Will we get a turnover, and likely a timely one, Sure, see above. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to get the job done. 

 

All of that may be true, but it doesn’t stop me from getting an ulcer watching them….BY DESIGN! 😉

[WNYFAN1]

8 hours ago, ElMarko said:

The Bills are currently rated #1 in the NFL with the least amount of passing yards allowed after 4 games. What’s the team’s problem again? 

Against who? The Ravens, sure. And then the murder's row of the Dolphins, Jets and Saints. Come on

 

[boyst]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Babich's problem isn't predictability. His problem is intent, or lack thereof. He seems to think that if you just call a wide variety of plays out of the same look, that is enough to get the opponent off balance. "Oh ho ho, last time we had six guys at the line we sent all six, but THIS time we're only sending four! Good luck Spenc- ah he just scrambled right through the vacated gap for 15 yards."

 

You can't just call plays to call plays. Every play, especially on money downs, you need to anticipate what the opposing OC likes to call in those situations, what the opposing QB likes to do in those situations, and beat them to the punch. So when for example you face a backup caliber QB that likes to throw to his first read or use his legs, you account for it in your play call. You don't blitz while playing off coverage on his best WR as if to signal with a big neon sign "THROW THE BALL HERE." You don't drop both LBs out of the A gaps and leave a wide open lane up the middle for him to plod through.

 

Multiplicity is great and I'm happy the Bills are throwing more pressure looks to make up for coverage issues popping up on the back end, but having a larger playbook doesn't automatically win you games. You still have to call the appropriate plays at appropriate times. The goal of calling the defense is to confuse the opponent and goad them into mistakes. Lately it's more common that we're confusing ourselves.

We don't have the talent at safety to cover the confusion. We don't have quick reacting and smart play from Williams. Our DL is going through the motions and last game it almost seemed as if they were purposely aiming at Bosa knowing if they beat him no one can get in front of the play.

 

Time for AJE, Rosseau, and Williams to step up.

[bmur66]

51 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

I think some people here have absolute insane expectations for our defense, especially after just 4 weeks where we have seen two of our best defenders missing multiple games (ed and Milano), our 1st round CB not taken a snap, and two major offseason additions suspended for the first 6 games and not playing. LOL. Oh and we have a top 10 pass defense.

 

FACTS:

McD defenses have ALWAYS been soft on the run, BY DESIGN! We want you to run the ball. Please, run the ball all you want. We would rather have you run than have explosive pass plays. That. Is. What. We. Want! You will never see this defense have big space eating DTs who are dominant against the run, thats not who we draft, thats not who we sign. 

 

Our defense thrives on negative plays and takeaways. We are OK giving up yards because we are hunting for a negative play that puts the opponents behind the sticks at some point and the drive stalls out. We are looking for turnovers, and ALWAYS get them. McD defenses have been causing turnovers regularly since his arrival in Buffalo (and before that). It isn't an accident, it isn't a fluke. It is preached and practiced. It is successful. You know what stat is the most predictive when it comes to wins in the NFL, TURNOVERS!

 

The defense this year has not been as bad as many think. For some reason many have whack expectations. We just held a team to under 20 points and under 300 total yards, under 150 passing yards. You do that and your going to win every game. It does not matter who the opponent was, its a week to week league and every team is going to give us their A+ effort. 

 

 

Against the Patriots

We will do what it takes to win the game. Will they run on us? Sure, see above. Will we get a turnover, and likely a timely one, Sure, see above. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to get the job done. 

 

I agree and that formula works well in the regular season. They have problems in the playoffs when they run into very good teams that don't make mistakes. As we have seen, a few key injuries and it doesn't turn out well. Then it is the Bills making the mistakes. Maybe this year will be different.

Edited Tuesday at 01:28 PM by bmur66

[CircleTheWagons99]

Pats fans on X really confident they win sunday night.....

[Chandler#81]

Do you still hate the Patriots?

I do!

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

10 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

Pats fans on X really confident they win sunday night.....

it is really great catching them coming off that blowout win against Carolina. 

[Metal Man]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's well known the Bills would rather give up rushing yards than passing yards. You let teams run all over you between the 20's but you don't allow them a TD. 

 

 

For sure on preferring to give up yardage on the ground.

 

I'm just saying these numbers always being thrown around don't typically tell the entire story, especially when just talking about yards.

 

I recall a lot of discussion during some of the drought year teams where people would point to how good the run D is even though the D was giving up 300+ passing yards each game. Pretty sure no one was bothering to run when they could just throw it down the field on the Bills D all day. 🙂

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 hours ago, ElMarko said:

The Bills are currently rated #1 in the NFL with the least amount of passing yards allowed after 4 games. What’s the team’s problem again? 

The problem has been teams haven't had to challenge our passing defense because the run works well against us. And because we haven't exactly faced a murders row of passing efficient QBs in Justin Fields, a broke down Tua and Rattler. 

[May Day 10]

This is a very big game.  The Bills, by winning, could have a death grip on the AFC East and also nice drivers' seat for the AFC #1 seed through 5 games.

 

Lose, suddenly the Patriots are 1 game back, with the tiebreaker, and a cakewalk for most of the season.  It gives them life and confidence.

 

 

Very, very important to take care of business at home on SNF

[Low Positive]

So, this is the 20th "complain about the Bills' defense" thread?  Where are we supposed to talk about the Pats game?