Hard Knocks Episode 2: The Thread

[DrDawkinstein]

15 hours ago, Dr Krentist said:

At 6 mins is interesting. Beane says he doesn't want cuts to happen on camera.

 

13 hours ago, stevewin said:

Saw a couple interesting Hard Knocks things today

 

- McD on Shoop/Bulldog, they asked if there was any time/place to have full privacy and McD said one of the 'parameters' they required was that he would have no cameras in his office and that is where he has his private conversations 

 

- Beane on McAfee mentioned "they listened to things we thought would be invasive or uncomfortable" and specifically mentioned "we do not want to be releasing players on film" which is normally a big staple of the season finale

 

It seems to me that the NFL was especially accommodating to the Bills - assume Josh, the status of the team etc helped them to be able to dictate some terms

 

 

Caught that on McAfee as well (usual great interview by Beane).

 

Interesting they cut out what is usually one of the more interesting parts of HK, but I totally agree and get where they are coming from. And even more so, the PLAYERS probably appreciate more than anyone. It's worth it for the Bills to build that trust with the players versus airing out their most vulnerable moments for some HBO show.

[stevewin]

6 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I agree with all of this, the Bills are in firm control of what is getting produced.  They even brought in Terry to sit with Beane for filler film...there is nothing interesting about Pegula and Bean watching film.

One thing I will say is there have been comments on here about how Pegula's interactions were all staged - and I'm not so sure.  I've heard Beane in multiple interviews talk about how Pegula loves to be involved n the process of player evaluation - especially in the draft - and a natural extension of that would be the evaluation of who makes the final roster.  

 

Beane made the following comments on 'Fitz an Whit' podcast earlier this year before the draft:  

Quote

He also praised owner Terry Pegula's hands-on interest in player recruitment and pre-draft evaluation processes.

 

"Terry loves the process," the GM said. "He's got an analytical mind. He's one of the few owners. He comes to the combine, he sits in all our interviews. He likes to get to know those 45 players that we bring in there for 15 minutes. We watch film with them, and he doesn't say a word. They don't even know he's the owner."

 

"Terry will sit in on our April meeting," he added. "He'll sit in there. And again, once in a while, he'll ask a question. He takes a lot of notes on what this scout said, what this coach may have said, and how I see it. He'll write some questions down that he has."

 

I've been to mutiple TC practices over the years where Pegula was present, and it is common for him to be talking to Beane and others on the sideline as was shown in Hard Knocks.  I think he is 'hands-on' in terms of wanting to understand and be present during player evaluations bc he likes the process (probably how most of us would be), but I don't think he tries to meddle in the actual final decisions.  I don't think the shots they've had of him have been totally made-up.

Edited August 14 by stevewin

[Aross3415]

Might already commented on here but where can you find online to watch episode 2?

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, stevewin said:

One thing I will say is there have been comments on here about how Pegula's interactions were all staged - and I'm not so sure.  I've heard Beane in multiple interviews talk about how Pegula loves to be involved n the process of player evaluation - especially in the draft - but a natural extension of that would be evaluating who makes the final roster.  

 

Beane made the following comments on 'Fitz an Whit' podcast earlier this year before the draft:  

 

I've been to mutiple TC practices over the years where Pegula was present, and it is common for him to be talking to Beane and others on the sideline as was shown in Hard Knocks.  I think he is 'hands-on' in terms of wanting to understand and be present during player evaluations bc he likes the process (probably how most of us would be), but I don't think he tries to meddle in the actual final decisions.  I don't think the shots they've had of him have been totally made-up.

 

Agreed. Every camp I've been to, though not many, Pegula has been there. Off to the side, talking to Beane or McD, but not intruding.

 

Why wouldnt he be there?

 

Frankly, as an owner who is relatively new to the NFL, and who struck oil (or natural gas) hiring McBeane, he needs to be listening to them so he knows the type of guys to hire when he eventually replaces them. No job is forever in the NFL, and even if they are wildly successful, you end up replacing them eventually. Even Kraft had to replace BB.

 

If I were the owner, I'd be tagging along as a fly on the wall. See how people operate, what works, what doesnt. Gotta be able to steer the ship a bit.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

On 8/13/2025 at 3:31 AM, Matt_In_NH said:

What a Dick thing to say

I see what you did there. 

 

And yes, that poster is one. 

[Jauronimo]

On 8/12/2025 at 9:10 PM, Bills!Win! said:

How does Terry not know what # Andreessen is? 

Would you say he's he not involved enough?

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Agreed. Every camp I've been to, though not many, Pegula has been there. Off to the side, talking to Beane or McD, but not intruding.

 

Why wouldnt he be there?

 

Frankly, as an owner who is relatively new to the NFL, and who struck oil (or natural gas) hiring McBeane, he needs to be listening to them so he knows the type of guys to hire when he eventually replaces them. No job is forever in the NFL, and even if they are wildly successful, you end up replacing them eventually. Even Kraft had to replace BB.

 

If I were the owner, I'd be tagging along as a fly on the wall. See how people operate, what works, what doesnt. Gotta be able to steer the ship a bit.

And honestly also take the opportunity to just geek out and enjoy the access as most fans would

[gonzo1105]

The Bills are doing everything in their power to never be chosen for Hard Knocks again because outside of highlighting player personalities the first two episodes have been a nothing burger and I say that as a Bills fan. 

[Einstein]

Just finished episode 2.

 

Hard Knocks is boring now. I miss the old Hard Knocks.

[mjt328]

On 8/13/2025 at 9:43 AM, SCBills said:

For the people who say it’s boring.. I just don’t know what anyone expected when doing this with a perennial contender. 
 

Would it look any different for KC or Baltimore?  Probably not. 
 

Also, there’s only 3 preseason games and 1 cutdown day.   Not exactly a ton of built in drama if the team doesn’t provide any of their own. 

 

This is my first time watching Hard Knocks (I subscribed to Max for one month just to watch it).

 

As a Bills fan, I thought the first episode was pretty good and fun.  Josh Allen, Tre White, Dion Dawkins...  But the second was pretty dull, because if focused mostly on backup players that either won't make the team or will only have marginal impact (Joe Andreesen, KJ Hamler, Damar Hamlin).  Even the holdout with James Cook was quickly glossed over, transitioning immediately into a fun story about Ray Davis kicking field goals.

 

Maybe I was hoping for more attention on our top players who for some reason don't get much national exposure... Christian Benford, Greg Rousseau, Ed Oliver, Terrell Bernard, Matt Milano, Spencer Brown, O'Cyrus Torrence, Khalil Shakir, etc.  Many of these guys get snubbed annually for Pro Bowl/All-Pro honors, and it would be nice to see some focus on them.  

 

Also, I feel like the more important storylines around the team have been ignored so far.  For example, how second year pros like Keon Coleman and Cole Bishop are progressing in their sophomore seasons.  The pressure on Dalton Kincaid to have a breakout year.  Can Joey Bosa stay healthy and return to his old Pro-Bowl days? The high number of injuries in training camp (especially the scare with Maxwell Hairston).  To me, these are the stories that fans (not just in Buffalo) are more likely to care about.

 

[RobbRiddick]

31 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Just finished episode 2.

 

Hard Knocks is boring now. I miss the old Hard Knocks.

I agree. Maybe it's because we already 'know' the players so well but it does feel a bit going through the motions. I mean I'll happily watch it because it's the Bills but I have to say I prefer the embedded episodes. 

17 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

This is my first time watching Hard Knocks (I subscribed to Max for one month just to watch it).

 

As a Bills fan, I thought the first episode was pretty good and fun.  Josh Allen, Tre White, Dion Dawkins...  But the second was pretty dull, because if focused mostly on backup players that either won't make the team or will only have marginal impact (Joe Andreesen, KJ Hamler, Damar Hamlin).  Even the holdout with James Cook was quickly glossed over, transitioning immediately into a fun story about Ray Davis kicking field goals.

 

Maybe I was hoping for more attention on our top players who for some reason don't get much national exposure... Christian Benford, Greg Rousseau, Ed Oliver, Terrell Bernard, Matt Milano, Spencer Brown, O'Cyrus Torrence, Khalil Shakir, etc.  Many of these guys get snubbed annually for Pro Bowl/All-Pro honors, and it would be nice to see some focus on them.  

 

Also, I feel like the more important storylines around the team have been ignored so far.  For example, how second year pros like Keon Coleman and Cole Bishop are progressing in their sophomore seasons.  The pressure on Dalton Kincaid to have a breakout year.  Can Joey Bosa stay healthy and return to his old Pro-Bowl days? The high number of injuries in training camp (especially the scare with Maxwell Hairston).  To me, these are the stories that fans (not just in Buffalo) are more likely to care about.

 

That's what Hard Knocks was always about for me, seeing fringe guys trying to make it. Seeing where they live, their relationships, how hard it is to make it in the NFL, all the work they put in even though the odds are stacked against them. I think it helps when it's a team you don't know much about For us we kind of know which guys have a little chance of making an impact, but for fans of another team who only know Josh Allen and guys like Cook they'll be a bit more intrigued by a guy like Hamler 

[WeckMonster]

On 8/13/2025 at 11:30 AM, GoBills808 said:

It only needs to work for a season

 

My favorite part of the episode was McDermott saying 'we're only focusing on 3 things right now' and proceeded to list 4 or 5 

Any idea what that interaction was? Someone taking notes for a post game speech or presser? I assume that’s only a preseason interaction?

[MJS]

This is why they focused on the crappy teams. Good teams are just too boring because there is very little drama, starting jobs are mostly set, etx.

 

The Bills would have be EXCELLENT content during some of the drought years. Or can you imagine the Rob Johnson and Doug Flutie years on hard knocks? That would have been good.

[WotAGuy]

After the Giants made themselves look spectacularly stupid last year, I think the Bills were determined to lay down some boundaries on what would be allowed. McDermott’s office is off-limits and I’m sure they drilled the players about what to say and who will be allowed to have a voice. 
 

It makes for less than riveting viewing, but the Bills like a drama-free environment, as evidenced by paying a huge price to not have Diggs around last year. 

[Bad Things]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Hard Knocks down here in Kiwi land, but was wondering if this show is only for the preseason, or will they be following the Bills throughout the entire season.  Cheers

[Bills!Win!]

Did anyone think after 17 years of futility that some people would claim the bills would be boring to following during training camp? My how the tables have turned 

[Brand J]

7 hours ago, Bad Things said:

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Hard Knocks down here in Kiwi land, but was wondering if this show is only for the preseason, or will they be following the Bills throughout the entire season.  Cheers

It’s only 5 shows, just for the preseason. They have separate teams (a conference) they’ll highlight for in season.

[Norcalbillsfan]

21 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

The Bills are doing everything in their power to never be chosen for Hard Knocks again because outside of highlighting player personalities the first two episodes have been a nothing burger and I say that as a Bills fan. 

They aren't even doing a great job at the player personalities so far. The buffalo Joe was pretty cool, but I feel like theres alot of other really cool stories they could go into. 

 

But I think your seeing a reaction from the giants HKs. Let's be honest it made the giants look completely incompetent. Joe schoen is clearly a more passive kind of guy and I bet hbo probably filmed whatever they wanted and took advantage of schoen being a passive guy.

 

Beane is not a passive guy at all, I guarantee beane is telling hbo what they can film of him and its clearly not very interesting or drama filled. 

[Captain Hindsight]

On 8/14/2025 at 12:53 PM, stevewin said:

One thing I will say is there have been comments on here about how Pegula's interactions were all staged - and I'm not so sure.  I've heard Beane in multiple interviews talk about how Pegula loves to be involved n the process of player evaluation - especially in the draft - and a natural extension of that would be the evaluation of who makes the final roster.  

 

Beane made the following comments on 'Fitz an Whit' podcast earlier this year before the draft:  

 

I've been to mutiple TC practices over the years where Pegula was present, and it is common for him to be talking to Beane and others on the sideline as was shown in Hard Knocks.  I think he is 'hands-on' in terms of wanting to understand and be present during player evaluations bc he likes the process (probably how most of us would be), but I don't think he tries to meddle in the actual final decisions.  I don't think the shots they've had of him have been totally made-up.

People I know in the Bills organization tell me as such. Terry is involved, but hes letting people do their jobs

10 hours ago, MJS said:

This is why they focused on the crappy teams. Good teams are just too boring because there is very little drama, starting jobs are mostly set, etx.

 

The Bills would have be EXCELLENT content during some of the drought years. Or can you imagine the Rob Johnson and Doug Flutie years on hard knocks? That would have been good.

I said to my brother a gailey team with Fitz, Fred Jackson, and Stevie Johnson would have been highly entertaining.

 

I'm enjoying this season, its fun and lighthearted. But its low drama, which I expected 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 8/13/2025 at 7:58 AM, Prospector said:

I may be in the minority, but we have been drowned in Hamlin stories and articles and specials and commentary... and non of it is actually about how he plays football. It's an amazing journey his life took, but can we please finally stop with it?! We all know what he went through and what he over came and what he does for the community... It's almost like the team keeps him on because they think they owe him for when he died in a Bills uni. In my opinion, this story is passed. A sub par player should not be getting this much attention... ok, rant over

 

I certainly suffer from a patient and respectful form of "Hamlin Fatigue" as I'm sure many Bills fans do. Unfortunately I believe in some cases that the fatigue has morphed into an animosity towards him... especially when coupled with the perception of him as a borderline player.

 

My prediction (especially because Bills on Hard Knocks was announced in May) is that this series will appropriately and finally close the book on the Hamlin story. I think many will be relieved.

 

On 8/13/2025 at 2:45 PM, Dr Krentist said:

At 6 mins is interesting. Beane says he doesn't want cuts to happen on camera.

 

On 8/13/2025 at 5:16 PM, stevewin said:

It seems to me that the NFL was especially accommodating to the Bills - assume Josh, the status of the team etc helped them to be able to dictate some terms

 

Yes, I seem to remember reading that the Bills were able to dictate terms of the production because they consented to be on the show.

 

On 8/13/2025 at 10:30 AM, GoBills808 said:

My favorite part of the episode was McDermott saying 'we're only focusing on 3 things right now' and proceeded to list 4 or 5 

 

On 8/13/2025 at 10:12 PM, Riverboat Ritchie said:

He’s a good dude and coach but still not sure he can deliver the Lombardi. Who knows though. 

 

Yeah, McDermott is a high character person but at 51 years old, he'll never be a good public speaker and even in athletics, I think it's important for leaders to be able to articulate messages well.

 

Hopefully this area doesn't limit his success.

 

On 8/14/2025 at 10:15 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

Frankly, as an owner who is relatively new to the NFL, and who struck oil (or natural gas) hiring McBeane, he needs to be listening to them so he knows the type of guys to hire when he eventually replaces them. No job is forever in the NFL, and even if they are wildly successful, you end up replacing them eventually. Even Kraft had to replace BB.

 

If I were the owner, I'd be tagging along as a fly on the wall. See how people operate, what works, what doesnt. Gotta be able to steer the ship a bit.

 

From the standpoint of a fan, I would rather have an owner who is 1) engaged and involved but not 2) meddling.

 

Pegula is ideal in this regard.

 

As for episode 2, I'll stick with my take after episode 1:

• Kind of boring in a good way
• The AV production values are excellent. It's a feast for the eyes.

For me the best part was the phone conversation between McDermott and Marv. It's really quite unbelievable that Marv is 100 years old. His mental acumen is probably greater than most people 35 years younger than him.