Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[Orlando Buffalo]

On 5/28/2025 at 6:36 AM, uticaclub said:

That wasn't a cheap shot & if that hit derails his career, he was never meant for the NFL

It was definitely a cheap shot, it was helmet to helmet and Poyer was not playing the ball. Despite that Coleman needs to come back stronger and better, that excuse is not going to fly. 

[BillsShredder83]

On 5/25/2025 at 5:09 PM, folz said:

 

Here is where the Bills rank in both passing and rushing attempts and yards over the last 5 years:

 

                       PASSING                          RUSHING

YEAR           Atts         Yds                     Atts         Yds

2024           26th         9th                     9th           9th

2023           16th          8th                     5th           7th

2022           14th          8th                    20th          9th

2021            5th           9th                    13th           6th

2020           11th          3rd                    17th           20th

 

Not quite sure what to make of all of that. You can kind of see the flip in the rushing and passing attempts over the last two years, but the strange thing is that regardless of attempts, our overall ranking in yards has stayed pretty consistent over the last four years (2020 being the only outlier).

 

Bills passing attempts and yards last 5 years (fyi):

2024:  520 for 3,875

2023:  579 for 4,154

2022:  574 for 4,129

2021:   655 for 4,284

2020:  596 for 4,620

 

 

Yeah Elijah Moore, and to a lesser extent Curtis Samuel, are the wild cards. I'm an optimistic fan, so I still think Samuel is a really good player and Moore is probably better than he's been able to show with the circumstances he was in (and he hasn't been a slouch as it is). It's just so hard to find enough balls to go around. Which is why I find it funny when people complain about weapons for Josh. We don't have that All-Pro #1 WR, but I think we have a ton of weapons (of course, I'm probably also higher on Keon, Kincaid, and Samuel in particular than some fans at this point). But...Shakir, Palmer, Coleman, Samuel, Moore, Kincaid, Knox, Cook, Davis, and Johnson. That's 10 guys that are already proven in the league (well not sure if you would call Keon proven yet, but...). I think it's a pretty strong and solid cast overall. With the "everybody eats" mentality, it may come down to the hot hand, whose playing best at any given time (and also designing certain games for certain players based on opponents). So, for instance, if they think speed would work better against a particular defense, then maybe Moore and Samuel get more snaps than Keon and/or Palmer that particular game. And of course, there is a chance that Moore plays well and demands more playing time. But as it is right now, my guess would be that he and Samuel will be used more situationally (so will be 4th and 5th in WR targets). But who knows. It will be fun to see how they try to use everyone this season.

Great post.  I'll just throw in my 2 cents on the bolded.  While I'd love to have an All-Pro WR, I know its not realistic unless we hit jackpot on a guy at the end of the 1st one year.  

 

Adding one serious outside threat forces defenses to be more multi-dimensional than they have to be now (one reason Spags has owned us).  Defenses against us dont have to worry about anybody getting over the top of them,(thats been beat ad nauseum) allowing them to crowd the line more... but even more troublesome is not having a horizontal field stretch.  

 

No deep threat + Bad outside WR's creates a nasty venn diagram, where defenses can put 70% of their focus and personnel in shallow - intermediate & condense to the middle.... which happens to be where we are most strong.  We run the ball well, that ven diagram is very favorable to a defense wanting to stop the run.  We also get the majority of our passing game from inside the hashes.... same spot where the defense wants to be.

 

We're throttling our own strengths by not having an outside guy... plus, were missing out on a ton of gains to be had on the outside.  Obv there's nothing we can do to fix it now, except pray that somebody breaks out between between Moore, Coleman or Palmer.  Its possible. 

 

My thing is I really feel like we're one top 20 outside WR away from being unstoppable.  Dude wouldnt even need to dominate like 2020 & 2021 Diggs.  We could move up and down the field, in whatever manner we would like, completely dictating the pace.  Getting just a bit more consistency outta the offense, can lead to our DL getting more opportunities to just pin their ears back and rush the pass.  I loved our draft though, and my God do I pray we can finally address the WR position better next year

[BillsShredder83]

On 5/27/2025 at 8:47 PM, SoonerBillsFan said:

He has to get mentally tougher

I think you can be mentally & physically tough while being being unsure of your post injury capabilities.  Dude was healthy through college wasnt he? I think he can be nasty in the run game, appears like a haul to bring down once hes got the ball, so im willing to give him the pass here.  Dude had just started to get the earliest signs of momentum going and then had it killed by a month off the field.  Probably very hard to get that train going again as a Rookie & as somebody whos been football healthy his whole life

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Great post.  I'll just throw in my 2 cents on the bolded.  While I'd love to have an All-Pro WR, I know its not realistic unless we hit jackpot on a guy at the end of the 1st one year.  

 

Adding one serious outside threat forces defenses to be more multi-dimensional than they have to be now (one reason Spags has owned us).  Defenses against us dont have to worry about anybody getting over the top of them,(thats been beat ad nauseum) allowing them to crowd the line more... but even more troublesome is not having a horizontal field stretch.  

 

No deep threat + Bad outside WR's creates a nasty venn diagram, where defenses can put 70% of their focus and personnel in shallow - intermediate & condense to the middle.... which happens to be where we are most strong.  We run the ball well, that ven diagram is very favorable to a defense wanting to stop the run.  We also get the majority of our passing game from inside the hashes.... same spot where the defense wants to be.

 

We're throttling our own strengths by not having an outside guy... plus, were missing out on a ton of gains to be had on the outside.  Obv there's nothing we can do to fix it now, except pray that somebody breaks out between between Moore, Coleman or Palmer.  Its possible. 

 

My thing is I really feel like we're one top 20 outside WR away from being unstoppable.  Dude wouldnt even need to dominate like 2020 & 2021 Diggs.  We could move up and down the field, in whatever manner we would like, completely dictating the pace.  Getting just a bit more consistency outta the offense, can lead to our DL getting more opportunities to just pin their ears back and rush the pass.  I loved our draft though, and my God do I pray we can finally address the WR position better next year

I guess this depends on if you consider Josh Palmer and outside guy deep threat. 
 

The consensu is that Amari cooper opened up and allowed out offense to become dynamic last season while playing 50% of the snaps and averaging 14.9 yards per catch.  Palmer averaged 15+ the last 2 seasons.  He just doesn’t have the “speed” many want, yet he has separation ability on the outside.  
 

I was hoping for more speed too, but in many cases, the “speed guys” can’t block.  Palmer is a solid blocker and get get open on the outside. The jury is obv still out, but we “may” have that outside guy that can be the horizontal field stretcher you seem to be insisting that we don’t have.  

[DJB]

 

[Breakout Squad]

I think Coleman is going to progress more this year. His limited highlights from last year show me he belongs in the NFL. He just needs to continue to improve. I have hope. 

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

3 of the 4 lowest in the league in separation 

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

Crap show for Buffalo. I still don't think Beane get it. I hope our 2 new additions can change that.

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

That's just flat out embarrassing.  Not suprising with our WR core tho

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

 

Echoing the general sentiment of "ouch."

[Victory Formation]

I never liked the pick but I am going to give him a fair shake. I think that the best case scenario is Keon will be a low end #1 or a high end #2 but in all likelihood I think he’ll be an average #2.

[Pete]

10 hours ago, DJB said:

 

Graphs to show what I’ve seen watching every Bills game.  It’s Emperors New Clothes.  If you say Keon can’t separate or Dalton is a disappointment- you get bombarded with delusional posts opposing

10 hours ago, NoSaint said:

3 of the 4 lowest in the league in separation 

But we don’t need WR, suggest so, and get bombarded with nonsensical posts targeting you 

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Graphs to show what I’ve seen watching every Bills game.  It’s Emperors New Clothes.  If you say Keon can’t separate or Dalton is a disappointment- you get bombarded with delusional posts opposing

But we don’t need WR, suggest so, and get bombarded with nonsensical posts targeting you 

That Ladd mcconkey guy, too bad we didn't have a chance to draft him...

[BarleyNY]

59 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

That Ladd mcconkey guy, too bad we didn't have a chance to draft him...

Also if you’re looking for Joshua Palmer, he’s in the middle cluster just to the left of and slightly below Mack Hollins. At least we paid Palmer over twice what Hollins got tho. 

[BeastMaster]

I'm very confident that Coleman will be much more impactful this season than Josh Palmer, who I see as a bust signing by Beane.

 

Coleman is a young kid that clearly needed to work on things and grow as a player, and all indications are that he has.

 

Palmer has accomplished little to nothing in the league, and there's no reason to believe he will be anything but maybe a slightly better version of a JAG, and that would be because Allen could potentially elevate him

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

That Ladd mcconkey guy, too bad we didn't have a chance to draft him...

Dang, I didn’t realize he put up the stats he did year one. I knew he had a good year, just never looked into his actual numbers.
 

Hopefully, Coleman steps up this year. I like the little midseason stretch he had pre-injury, but he’s got a lot to prove. He wouldn’t have been my choice for a receiver in the draft last year, but I’m not ready to write him off yet. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Also if you’re looking for Joshua Palmer, he’s in the middle cluster just to the left of and slightly below Mack Hollins. At least we paid Palmer over twice what Hollins got tho. 

Thank you.

 

I always sucked at Where's Waldo

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Graphs to show what I’ve seen watching every Bills game.  It’s Emperors New Clothes.  If you say Keon can’t separate or Dalton is a disappointment- you get bombarded with delusional posts opposing

But we don’t need WR, suggest so, and get bombarded with nonsensical posts targeting you 

Toughen up champ 

[balln]

14 hours ago, DJB said:

 

Weird everyone @GunnerBill keeps telling me Ladd is a slot / couldn’t be drafted by the bills/ not outside / not vertical threat. 
 

Nonsense. Beane whiffed. Gets so caught up on role / position type / fit/ culture. Just draft BPA man. 
 

Ladd was a polished , professional NFL wr with good ras and good production at the best school/ conf in the country 

 

instead we went with a completely rough basketball player , who looks awkward and quite frankly isn’t that great at contested catches 

Edited 1 hour ago by balln

[MiracleAtRich1393]

On 6/2/2025 at 6:42 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Great post.  I'll just throw in my 2 cents on the bolded.  While I'd love to have an All-Pro WR, I know its not realistic unless we hit jackpot on a guy at the end of the 1st one year.  

 

Adding one serious outside threat forces defenses to be more multi-dimensional than they have to be now (one reason Spags has owned us).  Defenses against us dont have to worry about anybody getting over the top of them,(thats been beat ad nauseum) allowing them to crowd the line more... but even more troublesome is not having a horizontal field stretch.  

 

No deep threat + Bad outside WR's creates a nasty venn diagram, where defenses can put 70% of their focus and personnel in shallow - intermediate & condense to the middle.... which happens to be where we are most strong.  We run the ball well, that ven diagram is very favorable to a defense wanting to stop the run.  We also get the majority of our passing game from inside the hashes.... same spot where the defense wants to be.

 

We're throttling our own strengths by not having an outside guy... plus, were missing out on a ton of gains to be had on the outside.  Obv there's nothing we can do to fix it now, except pray that somebody breaks out between between Moore, Coleman or Palmer.  Its possible. 

 

My thing is I really feel like we're one top 20 outside WR away from being unstoppable.  Dude wouldnt even need to dominate like 2020 & 2021 Diggs.  We could move up and down the field, in whatever manner we would like, completely dictating the pace.  Getting just a bit more consistency outta the offense, can lead to our DL getting more opportunities to just pin their ears back and rush the pass.  I loved our draft though, and my God do I pray we can finally address the WR position better next year

That's why trading up for BTJR was definitely the move. Could have easily been done with the 2025 Diggs pick, and we wouldn't have had to burn a 2025 3rd rounder on a half season of Amari Cooper. Josh would have an alpha burner to open everything else up on a cost controlled contract for 5 years 😭😭😭