Brandon Beane on WGR

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

No. Nobody said they had to pick one. Beane overreacted to listening to only a small part of the show before going on. Nobody said they absolutely had to draft a receiver at ____ spot. Just that they were surprised one wasn’t drafted until the 7th. wtf 

Which is something that they should have know considering the WRs in this draft weren't anything special outside the 1st round, early 2nd and was a historically deep draft and defensive players that graded well all the way into the 4th round.

 

Why would they be surprised?  Every time Sal was on the show he said the first 3 or 4 picks were probably going to be defense for a month leading up to the draft and then it happens and they are surprised?  Why?  They weren't surprised; they were annoyed because Beane didn't pick who they wanted and then they couldn't "CHOO CHOO! EVERYONE ON BOARD THE WR TRAIN!"

 

 

[Maine-iac]

2 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I do listen. And eventhough it make me sound like a hypocrite…I listen basically every day. I’m not making up anything. These guys are obsessed with the same thoughts over and over and beat them into the ground every day on the air for years. It’s not funny, they know next to nothing, they constantly look foolish and are factually incorrect on most of the things they say. They spend a year and a half talking about a tank for the sabers. Punting on a season in week 1 for a player that left. Now that team hasn’t won anything since that campaign. This guy is just clueless constantly.

 

It used to be Schopp. I used to think he was the problem but it has been Jeremy for years now. He knows nothing about football. He constantly speaks on things that make no sense. He’s been obsessed with WR for years. He acts like the defense is meaningless.  You’d think after this last year he’d learn but just continues to double down. This team scores more than anyone. The offense is not even close to a problem. Anyone that watches this team and is even slightly objective can see our issue is coaching and the Defense. Specifically the coaching of the defense. We don’t need a WR. It’s not even a grey area. We have 4 WRs that will play a ton. We have 2 pass catching TEs that need targets. We throw a ton to all 3 RBs. We use 6 linemen constantly. We run a lot and our QB runs a lot. If we needed a WR, we’d have one. It’s not even close to a concern. A WR is not coming in here and playing. The team needs to fix the issues that have kept them from making a Super Bowl. Our GM understands that and tried to fix the personnel side of it.

Dunning Kruger effect ........ I'm not an NFL GM but I must be smarter than one.  Just ask me I'll tell you.

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

No. Nobody said they had to pick one. Beane overreacted to listening to only a small part of the show before going on. Nobody said they absolutely had to draft a receiver at ____ spot. Just that they were surprised one wasn’t drafted until the 7th after doing all the pre draft stuff and saying they needed more speed. wtf 

 

As someone else already pointed out, tough for Jeremy (and you) to downplay their WR obsession when there is literally a 'WR-Only Draft Board" right behind Jeremy in every clip.

 

These dudes have been crusading for a WR for months. It's pretty much their main topic on every show.

 

To act like they didnt make it a big deal, and Beane is overreacting over nothing, is just disingenuous.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I do listen. And eventhough it make me sound like a hypocrite…I listen basically every day. I’m not making up anything. These guys are obsessed with the same thoughts over and over and beat them into the ground every day on the air for years. It’s not funny, they know next to nothing, they constantly look foolish and are factually incorrect on most of the things they say. They spend a year and a half talking about a tank for the sabers. Punting on a season in week 1 for a player that left. Now that team hasn’t won anything since that campaign. This guy is just clueless constantly.

 

It used to be Schopp. I used to think he was the problem but it has been Jeremy for years now. He knows nothing about football. He constantly speaks on things that make no sense. He’s been obsessed with WR for years. He acts like the defense is meaningless.  You’d think after this last year he’d learn but just continues to double down. This team scores more than anyone. The offense is not even close to a problem. Anyone that watches this team and is even slightly objective can see our issue is coaching and the Defense. Specifically the coaching of the defense. We don’t need a WR. It’s not even a grey area. We have 4 WRs that will play a ton. We have 2 pass catching TEs that need targets. We throw a ton to all 3 RBs. We use 6 linemen constantly. We run a lot and our QB runs a lot. If we needed a WR, we’d have one. It’s not even close to a concern. A WR is not coming in here and playing. The team needs to fix the issues that have kept them from making a Super Bowl. Our GM understands that and tried to fix the personnel side of it.

While I agree with most of this. It’s not what the conversation was about that Beane was listening and reacting to.

6 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Which is something that they should have know considering the WRs in this draft weren't anything special outside the 1st round, early 2nd and was a historically deep draft and defensive players that graded well all the way into the 4th round.

 

Why would they be surprised?  Every time Sal was on the show he said the first 3 or 4 picks were probably going to be defense for a month leading up to the draft and then it happens and they are surprised?  Why?  They weren't surprised; they were annoyed because Beane didn't pick who they wanted and then they couldn't "CHOO CHOO! EVERYONE ON BOARD THE WR TRAIN!"

 

 

But they weren’t surprised at the first few rounds. They were fine with that. What they were talking about was moving up in the later rounds to get one. I’m guessing they were talking about Royals or Horton. 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, finn said:

Given your assessment and assuming positive growth from him this year, do you think he could be an elite player? His inability to get separation, combined with his meh contested-catch rate, are pretty disappointing for such a high pick, but what about his prospects? Does he have a high ceiling, or is he going to be ordinary? 

 

I thought he was an ordinary prospect, I'm sorry to say. I like this year's first three picks a LOT better than I liked last year's.

23 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

 The thing we don't have a counter for is Shakir getting hurt. I'd like to see a Shakir understudy that looks like he could effectively sub in and play slot.

 

Elijah Moore would give you that, and if Shakir can stay healthy give you some snaps outside too. I like that idea more the more I think about him. 

[The Wiz]

17 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

But they weren’t surprised at the first few rounds. They were fine with that. What they were talking about was moving up in the later rounds to get one. I’m guessing they were talking about Royals or Horton. 

They were talking about Royals.  They specifically said his name this morning while talking to Joe Marino.

 

So again, Beane didn't pick who they wanted so they say "he doesn't value the WR position like other teams that draft WR when they already have WR on the team". 

 

They're right, he doesn't.  Because he doesn't need to.  LA Chargers have drafted 8 WRs since they drafted Justin Herbert and one of them is a Buffalo Bill now.  Does that mean they value WR more or maybe they overvalue WR because they have Herbert?

 

So Beane invested where they needed the most help in the 4th,5th and 6th round for what the team needs.  Not what fans want.  I myself do want an upgrade at WR and wish would had a stud but that doesn't change the fact that no matter who has walked through the door over the last 5-6 years has had their career year(other than Cooper) with Allen.  Others will too.

Edited 9 hours ago by The Wiz

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

18 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Dunning Kruger effect ........ I'm not an NFL GM but I must be smarter than one.  Just ask me I'll tell you.

Beane shut that right down. When Jeremy laughs and he’s ready to add some BS baseless throwaway that he never gets checked on…Beane told him STFU and let me finish and the guy just bitched out

[BillsVet]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So because we are in win now mode every year that is a reason not to prioritise receivers? Shakir is actually an argument to do exactly what some of us wanted him to do this year - take a shot on a day 3 guy with a skillset that can be developed. It isn't even just about this year - Shakir came on in year 2. Let's say they moved up a few spots in round 5 and snagged Tory Horton (who went 4 picks ahead, who the Bills spoke to twice including a 30 visit) maybe he only has 10 catches for 100 yards as a rookie in limited playing time.... but this time next year he is another young receiver in reserve who you can continue to develop. Samuel will be a FA after this season, Kincaid's option decision will be due and you have to look in the wider context at how your offensive weapons stock looks. 

 

The personnel planning on defense compared to offense is such a stark contrast.  They went DT and DE because their depth there will thin out real fast after 2025.   

 

Yet, at WR there's never been much planning ahead.  They can get out of Samuel's deal after this season, Palmer after 2026, which leaves only Coleman and Shakir long-term.  They have little in development unless you count a guy like Shavers who has been waived after his last 2 camps and put on the PS.  

 

But they're here at WR today because it wasn't a priority, as others have mentioned for 2021, 2022, and 2023.  Taking Kincaid was a backup plan when the WRs were essentially gone his draft year.  Coleman was a double-trade down.  Right GB...it's not that they don't have them...it's that they don't plan to continuously improve the position as they do the secondary, DL, and even the LBs.  

[Cash]

27 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The personnel planning on defense compared to offense is such a stark contrast.  They went DT and DE because their depth there will thin out real fast after 2025.   

 

Yet, at WR there's never been much planning ahead.  They can get out of Samuel's deal after this season, Palmer after 2026, which leaves only Coleman and Shakir long-term.  They have little in development unless you count a guy like Shavers who has been waived after his last 2 camps and put on the PS.  

 

But they're here at WR today because it wasn't a priority, as others have mentioned for 2021, 2022, and 2023.  Taking Kincaid was a backup plan when the WRs were essentially gone his draft year.  Coleman was a double-trade down.  Right GB...it's not that they don't have them...it's that they don't plan to continuously improve the position as they do the secondary, DL, and even the LBs.  

 

Yeah, I think this is a fair criticism.  Both the depth and pipeline at WR are pretty shaky right now.  I'm fine with the stated approach of, "we don't need a true #1 WR, and especially not at market price for a #1 WR".  But we can't put scrubs out there, either.  There's plenty of question marks with our top 4 WRs, but they are all legitimate NFL players, and depending on how well Palmer works out, they might be a really effective group in this offense.  But what happens if any of them get hurt?  Our current WR depth chart gets scary real quick.

 

A lot of us would like Beane to get into the habit of taking a WR somewhere in the round 3-5 range, maybe not every year, but often.  Most of those guys can play at least a little bit, and some of them develop into solid starters or even stars.  Knowing that we won't be able to commit a ton of cap $ to the WR position makes it extra important to have a cost-controlled pipeline at the position.  And again, we don't necessarily need major stars at WR, but we do need competent NFL players across the board.  (And if one of those picks happens to turn into a star, well that's just fine.)

[BillsVet]

33 minutes ago, Cash said:

A lot of us would like Beane to get into the habit of taking a WR somewhere in the round 3-5 range, maybe not every year, but often.  Most of those guys can play at least a little bit, and some of them develop into solid starters or even stars.  Knowing that we won't be able to commit a ton of cap $ to the WR position makes it extra important to have a cost-controlled pipeline at the position.  And again, we don't necessarily need major stars at WR, but we do need competent NFL players across the board.  (And if one of those picks happens to turn into a star, well that's just fine.)

 

Last year I recall frequent reference to Green Bay having used multiple picks in the RD2-5 range and how a RD1 pick wasn't necessary.  That may be true (although GB used their first RD1 pick there in 20+ years), but the Packers have used one Day 1, four Day 2 and four Day 3 picks on WRs going back to 2021.  That compared to Buffalo's one Day 2 and three Day 3 picks

 

At this point it's almost Buffalo being defiant and bucking the trend that teams take WRs.  It remains fair, therefore, to highlight the disparity with other teams because it's a position of importance, particularly the boundary receivers.  And to your point...yes, having them on rookie deals provides a benefit.  The Bills need to do that not only at WR, but across their roster as re-signing all your own is nice in theory, but costly.  

[Rocbillsfan1]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought he was an ordinary prospect, I'm sorry to say. I like this year's first three picks a LOT better than I liked last year's.

 

Elijah Moore would give you that, and if Shakir can stay healthy give you some snaps outside too. I like that idea more the more I think about him. 

So sounds like they should have traded up for Brian Thomas last year or at least drafted Mcconkey who is actually good. Would you rather have Coleman, Carter or Brian Thomas? The part that Beane is missing in all of this as he has failed to identify WRs in the draft since he has arrived. If Coleman flames out and he is the only Wr drafted in the top 3 rounds during Beane’s tenure then that is crazy. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

So sounds like they should have traded up for Brian Thomas last year or at least drafted Mcconkey who is actually good. Would you rather have Coleman, Carter or Brian Thomas? The part that Beane is missing in all of this as he has failed to identify WRs in the draft since he has arrived. If Coleman flames out and he is the only Wr drafted in the top 3 rounds during Beane’s tenure then that is crazy. 

 

I'd have gone up for BTJ. I am on record with that. I'd have gone up for Addison the year before too. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd have gone up for BTJ. I am on record with that. I'd have gone up for Addison the year before too. 

Gotcha. I thought the same. It’s just kind of surprising to me that after all these years they made a trade for Diggs which in hindsight wasn’t as good as it should have been(should have selected Jefferson) and failed to identity a guy they liked and went out and drafted. The fact they traded back and scooped up Coleman didn’t really inspire confidence in that pick. 

[MasterStrategist]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is good at the deep over routes, yep, where he can run across the field. That just suits him much more. He didn't play much from the slot in 2024, although I think is telling that his slot snaps steadily ticked uo all year and the 3 games where he had double figures in snaps from the slot came in the last 4 weeks of the season. The Bills definitely had it in their minds as the season went along. 

 

But he did make multiple of his big plays from tight splits. Even he was still the "inside" it was getting him a bit tighter and throwing him slants and and in breaking routes to get him the ball in traffic over the middle. That is still where he is at his best. He is still the guy who runs the gauntlet really well. He will make some plays on the outside on vertical routes where he can box a defender out and come down with a contested ball but that is a hard way to live consistently in the NFL. And his contested catch percentage wasn't that high. But ever vertical ball will be contested because he is a non-separator. He is still a basketball player who plays to contact off the defender rather than a guy with the nuance, burst and short area quickness to separate either early in routes or through his break at the top of them. 

We shall see.

 

I do know Coleman has got quicker/and alot stronger this offseason.  I know someone close to his camp, he's put on 5+ lbs of muscle and has looked alot more agile according to him.

 

Josh raves about his athletic ability and time to just get acclimated to the offense/NFl, being a very young prospect still.

 

We always have alot of tight formations/splits, it's similar to Rams and others.  I don't think that's specific to Keon or in any way, depicts his usage.  They plan to have him as their alpha outside, if he hits his potential is another thing altogether

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

They plan to have him as their alpha outside, if he hits his potential is another thing altogether

 

I think that plan will fail. I just don't think he has the skillset to do it.

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

We shall see.

 

I do know Coleman has got quicker/and alot stronger this offseason.  I know someone close to his camp, he's put on 5+ lbs of muscle and has looked alot more agile according to him.

 

Josh raves about his athletic ability and time to just get acclimated to the offense/NFl, being a very young prospect still.

 

We always have alot of tight formations/splits, it's similar to Rams and others.  I don't think that's specific to Keon or in any way, depicts his usage.  They plan to have him as their alpha outside, if he hits his potential is another thing altogether

 

That would be wonderful.

I also think Kincaid needs to do the same.

I haven't given up on either yet like others have.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

We shall see.

 

I do know Coleman has got quicker/and alot stronger this offseason.  I know someone close to his camp, he's put on 5+ lbs of muscle and has looked alot more agile according to him.

 

Josh raves about his athletic ability and time to just get acclimated to the offense/NFl, being a very young prospect still.

 

We always have alot of tight formations/splits, it's similar to Rams and others.  I don't think that's specific to Keon or in any way, depicts his usage.  They plan to have him as their alpha outside, if he hits his potential is another thing altogether

 

I remain cautiously optimistic on Coleman. I hate the way his season ended, you never want to see a developing player end the season worse than he started, but that two game stretch of Tennessee and Seattle showed a glimpse of his potential. I don't expect him to hit his ceiling in year two, he has a lot he needs to work on and progression is not always linear, but hopefully he can get back on a positive trend line this year. Our roster as constructed can afford Bishop or Carter to bust IMO, but we can't afford Coleman to bust.

 

And this is one thing I disagree with @GunnerBill on, I do think Coleman has the body type and skill set to play outside although it will never be as a separation specialist. I expect the Bills to keep trying him outside and if he fails to develop they will make him a big slot as a fall back option.

[balln]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I remain cautiously optimistic on Coleman. I hate the way his season ended, you never want to see a developing player end the season worse than he started, but that two game stretch of Tennessee and Seattle showed a glimpse of his potential. I don't expect him to hit his ceiling in year two, he has a lot he needs to work on and progression is not always linear, but hopefully he can get back on a positive trend line this year. Our roster as constructed can afford Bishop or Carter to bust IMO, but we can't afford Coleman to bust.

 

And this is one thing I disagree with @GunnerBill on, I do think Coleman has the body type and skill set to play outside although it will never be as a separation specialist. I expect the Bills to keep trying him outside and if he fails to develop they will make him a big slot as a fall back option.

So he’s just super up and down. Seattle game is perfect microcosm. He owns the big corner at goaline for great contested TD. 
 

and then in the same game. He’s open for a deep honey hole laser from Josh. And he looked. So. Awkward. Attempting to catch it. Like alligator arm but worse 

 

to me- he’s a basketball player that’s super awkward half the time at football at the catch point. He’s not great at change of direction. And he’s .

slow. 
 

and he’s not even that great at contested catches. Wasn’t in college (like 50%?) and pros was 37%!

 

let’s pump the brakes on any greatness for Coleman here folks

Edited 2 hours ago by balln

[BillsFanForever19]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I remain cautiously optimistic on Coleman. I hate the way his season ended, you never want to see a developing player end the season worse than he started, but that two game stretch of Tennessee and Seattle showed a glimpse of his potential. I don't expect him to hit his ceiling in year two, he has a lot he needs to work on and progression is not always linear, but hopefully he can get back on a positive trend line this year. Our roster as constructed can afford Bishop or Carter to bust IMO, but we can't afford Coleman to bust.

 

And this is one thing I disagree with @GunnerBill on, I do think Coleman has the body type and skill set to play outside although it will never be as a separation specialist. I expect the Bills to keep trying him outside and if he fails to develop they will make him a big slot as a fall back option.

 

Has Keon ever taken a bad injury in Football before? Honestly asking bc I have no idea.

 

He was showing development and getting better as the season progressed. Then that Jordan Poyer hit happened. And that was a nasty hit to take. Understandably knocked him loopy and messed up his wrist. He wasn't listed as having a concussion, just the wrist, but i'd be very surprised if he didn't take a head injury from that shot. When he came back, he didn't look like the same player. Which Beane famously called him out for:

 

Quote

"I would say, probably was a little disappointed in the return from injury. I did not see the same player down the stretch from a physicality, some of the things that he needs to use his size," Beane said. "Some of that is youth, some of that is, I’m not sure how many injuries he’s had to overcome in-season and come back."

 

It makes me wonder if maybe there was a mental thing going on with getting smashed that hard? I hope that's not the case and i'm reaching here. Could be explained simply by his wrist still bothering him. But it is slighly concerning that he took one of the nastiest hits i've ever seen, was gone for a long time bc of it, and when he returned he played with less "physicality". But maybe that's just Trent Edwards trauma on my part.

Edited 2 hours ago by BillsFanForever19

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, balln said:

So he’s just super up and down. Seattle game is perfect microcosm. He owns the big corner at goaline for great contested TD. 
 

and then in the same game. He’s open for a deep honey hole laser from Josh. And he looked. So. Awkward. Attempting to catch it. Like alligator arm but worse 

 

to me- he’s a basketball player that’s super awkward half the time at football at the catch point. He’s not great at change of direction. And he’s .

slow. 
 

and he’s not even that great at contested catches. Wasn’t in college (like 50%?) and pros was 37%!

 

let’s pump the brakes on any greatness for Coleman here folks

Let’s also pump the brakes on hyperbole.  I don’t think most people are putting Coleman and greatness in the same sentence.  My stance is that it is not unreasonable to think players can improve with more time in the league.  Too many people are writing this kid off after a rookie season truncated with injury.  He has to continue putting in the work; his GM and HC have made that public.  So let’s see how he does assuming that work is done.  He has the athleticism to be a strong contributor.  
 

And this is just my personal pet peeve but can we please drop the slow stuff.  The difference in actual distance with a fraction of a second or two difference is around 2 feet.