Wide Receiver Train Full Speed Ahead- CHOO CHOO!

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Ohhh I see.   And just how many SB wins has that optimism been rewarded with. 😂

 

Because that's what we are talking about here.   There is a reason you can't keep it on topic.  

 

The title of the thread is about WRs.  That’s what is being talked about.  Try sticking to the topic instead of hijacking it with your negativism.  

[VW82]

I think losing Mack was an underrated loss. He was such a good blocker and made timely catches time and again. I’m very interested to see how Palmer fills that role. Hopefully, he’ll be more consistent uncovering in the passing game. 
 

Healthy Kincaid will also mean change. I have no doubt that he’ll emerge as a significant downfield weapon. He should see more snaps, but will that combined with loss of Mack impact our running game? I don’t see us running a lot of 12 personnel. This will be something worth monitoring as the season progresses because ultimately we’re a run team first, and we may find certain personnel groupings limit that.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, noacls17 said:

Actually you were proven wrong  The only defensive stat that matters is the 33.2 ppg given up by the Bills defense in the last game of the year in the last 5 seasons.

💯 

 

Giving up a season high points to KC in a game decided by 3.  The offense wasn’t the problem.  The defense and the health of the defense continues to lead to our demise.  The bills have gotten 9 stops vs KC in the playoffs since the 21 playoff game.  The eagles had 9 straight in the Super Bowl. 

[oldmanfan]

39 minutes ago, VW82 said:

I think losing Mack was an underrated loss. He was such a good blocker and made timely catches time and again. I’m very interested to see how Palmer fills that role. Hopefully, he’ll be more consistent uncovering in the passing game. 
 

Healthy Kincaid will also mean change. I have no doubt that he’ll emerge as a significant downfield weapon. He should see more snaps, but will that combined with loss of Mack impact our running game? I don’t see us running a lot of 12 personnel. This will be something worth monitoring as the season progresses because ultimately we’re a run team first, and we may find certain personnel groupings limit that.

Really wish we could have kept him.

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

💯

 

Giving up a season high points to KC in a game decided by 3.  The offense wasn’t the problem.  The defense and the health of the defense continues to lead to our demise.  The bills have gotten 9 stops vs KC in the playoffs since the 21 playoff game.  The eagles had 9 straight in the Super Bowl. 

 

 

They also had the ball at the end with a chance to salt away the Chiefs in the last two playoff losses and Allen and the offense face planted epically.  

 

Haven't had the necessary amount of playmakers on either side of the ball and the Chiefs and Bengals did.........and that's the story of the 5 straight AFC playoff losses to end their season since Allens' breakout season in 2020.     

 

Based on the most recent production from the player's they've added.........that hasn't changed.

 

There is more reason for optimism that Lamar is due for another high ankle sprain that ruins his season and/or that the Chiefs are just weary from 7 straight very deep playoff runs than there is that Bosa and Ogunjobi will return to form or Josh Palmer or Keon Coleman will become a WR1.

 

There has been a lot of fellating of the Eagles by people who couldn't have named 5 players on the team 4 months ago..........but they had their biggest competitors(Detroit and SF) decimated by injury giving them a pretty easy run to the SB.    Beane appears to have lost ground to KC and Baltimore on paper this offseason but it's a long season.

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[TheWeatherMan]

37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

💯

 

Giving up a season high points to KC in a game decided by 3.  The offense wasn’t the problem.  The defense and the health of the defense continues to lead to our demise.  The bills have gotten 9 stops vs KC in the playoffs since the 21 playoff game.  The eagles had 9 straight in the Super Bowl. 

There’s no doubt that offense isn’t a problem in the playoffs, it’s the Defense.  The real debate is to whether it’s:

 

1. situational coaching and ability to make adjustments.

2. The overall defensive scheme

3. Quality of play / injuries or

4. A little of all the above  

[SoTier]

On 5/3/2025 at 11:55 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You weren't worried about WR last offseason either.    Then Baltimore and Houston happened.   The latter being one of the worst performances by an NFL QB this century.   Because of insufficient quality at WR.  

 

So you were proven wrong.    

 

Beane had to burn a precious 3rd round pick to address it with a player coming off a 1200 yard season that teams had to respect as a deep threat.

 

And they subsequently produced a full TD more per game after that.  (As Beane is proud to note)

 

That's the difference between being the 2nd highest scoring offense and finishing 11th(Arizona).

 

And for further perspective on what that kind of disparity means........the Bills ranked 11th in defensive DVOA last season and the prevailing sentiment among fans and local/national media is that they were bad defensively.

 

 

Your premise that poor WR play led to the Ravens and Texans losses is simply incorrect.  

 

In the Ravens game, while the offense was ineffective, the defense was also guilty of playing crappy.  Henry ran 88 yards on the Ravens' first play from scrimmage for a TD, and that essentially set the tone for the rest of the game.  Both sides of the ball sucked.   

 

In the Houston game, the Bills defense gave up 26 yards and a TD on 2 rushes by Cam Akers and then a 67 yard TD pass to Nico Collins in the first quarter.  After that the Bills defense tightened up and gave up only 3 FGs of 47, 50, and 59 yards the rest of the way with the 59 yarder being the game winner with 2 seconds left.  The defense was missing Rapp (replaced by rookie Cole Bishop) and Shakir was out on the offense.  Allen had one of his worse days as a pro (9/30/131,1,0), but he didn't just miss WRs, and he did hit Coleman for a 49-yard TD pass.   The Houston game could hardly be called an indictment of the Bills WRs since their most productive WR was out and their rookie caught a bomb for a TD.

 

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They also had the ball at the end with a chance to salt away the Chiefs in the last two playoff losses and Allen and the offense face planted epically.  

 

Haven't had the necessary amount of playmakers on either side of the ball and the Chiefs and Bengals did.........and that's the story of the 5 straight AFC playoff losses to end their season since Allens' breakout season in 2020.     

 

Based on the most recent production from the player's they've added.........that hasn't changed.

 

There is more reason for optimism that Lamar is due for another high ankle sprain that ruins his season and/or that the Chiefs are just weary from 7 straight very deep playoff runs than there is that Bosa and Ogunjobi will return to form or Josh Palmer or Keon Coleman will become a WR1.

 

There has been a lot of fellating of the Eagles by people who couldn't have named 5 players on the team 4 months ago..........but they had their biggest competitors(Detroit and SF) decimated by injury giving them a pretty easy run to the SB.    Beane appears to have lost ground to KC and Baltimore on paper this offseason but it's a long season.

 

 

 

 

Yes, they did.  I’ve acknowledged this many times.   Not scoring on a drive in which you scored 29 points is different than allowing your opponent to score more points than they had all year.    The year before, the KC offense obliterated our defense even worse.  Both games without our best defensive player, Benford 
 

I don’t feel like we’ve lost ground to KC.  They had a helluva draft, but don’t think they’ve upgraded their OL very much if at all.  Also acknowledging that their offense could be better with rice and royals in the mix.  
 

I also think we had a helluva draft and upgraded our DL in a big way in the offseason.  Our pass rush, on paper, is much better than last year imo.  Our secondary is clearly better this year, unless you think Rasul Douglas is better than our new additions.  Our LBs are the same and have a chance to be healthy.  
 

I will say, our offense didn’t get much better, if at all.  The improvements will have to come from player progression.  Possible.  

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

I think losing Mack was an underrated loss. He was such a good blocker and made timely catches time and again. I’m very interested to see how Palmer fills that role. Hopefully, he’ll be more consistent uncovering in the passing game. 
 

Healthy Kincaid will also mean change. I have no doubt that he’ll emerge as a significant downfield weapon. He should see more snaps, but will that combined with loss of Mack impact our running game? I don’t see us running a lot of 12 personnel. This will be something worth monitoring as the season progresses because ultimately we’re a run team first, and we may find certain personnel groupings limit that.

 

Keon is our best blocking WR now.  
 

I have no idea what that means for what they’re thinking regarding how to use him and where he’ll primarily line up.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Of course, but most teams implies that there are 32 relevant to the discussion.   There aren't.   I know that's why you lead with Philly last offseason but the Bills have more question marks at the premium, highest valued positions than Philly, KC, Baltimore, Detroit and Green Bay.   Most of the crowded next tier down has more difference makers at premium positions as well.

 

Not sure I'd put Green Bay in that group personally but fair on the others. 

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

I think losing Mack was an underrated loss. He was such a good blocker and made timely catches time and again. I’m very interested to see how Palmer fills that role. Hopefully, he’ll be more consistent uncovering in the passing game. 
 

Healthy Kincaid will also mean change. I have no doubt that he’ll emerge as a significant downfield weapon. He should see more snaps, but will that combined with loss of Mack impact our running game? I don’t see us running a lot of 12 personnel. This will be something worth monitoring as the season progresses because ultimately we’re a run team first, and we may find certain personnel groupings limit that.

We all liked Mack, but when the top thing you can say about a receiver is how good of a blocker he is, that’s not a great thing. 

[Doc Brown]

51 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Your premise that poor WR play led to the Ravens and Texans losses is simply incorrect.  

 

In the Ravens game, while the offense was ineffective, the defense was also guilty of playing crappy.  Henry ran 88 yards on the Ravens' first play from scrimmage for a TD, and that essentially set the tone for the rest of the game.  Both sides of the ball sucked.   

 

In the Houston game, the Bills defense gave up 26 yards and a TD on 2 rushes by Cam Akers and then a 67 yard TD pass to Nico Collins in the first quarter.  After that the Bills defense tightened up and gave up only 3 FGs of 47, 50, and 59 yards the rest of the way with the 59 yarder being the game winner with 2 seconds left.  The defense was missing Rapp (replaced by rookie Cole Bishop) and Shakir was out on the offense.  Allen had one of his worse days as a pro (9/30/131,1,0), but he didn't just miss WRs, and he did hit Coleman for a 49-yard TD pass.   The Houston game could hardly be called an indictment of the Bills WRs since their most productive WR was out and their rookie caught a bomb for a TD.

 

I hate having to defend a poster but he didn't say that was the reason they lost those games.  There's a reason we were all thrilled when Beane traded for Cooper after those two losses.  At the time our WR's were 25th or worse  in targets, receptions, receiving yards and receiving first downs.  I'm already looking at what WR from another team we can acquire maybe mid season again.

Edited 2 hours ago by Doc Brown

[Goin Breakdown]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's all entertainment old man.   If it makes you miserable that's a you problem.  It's not that emotional for me.   I'm here to talk straight about a product where the objective is to win the SB.   You are here to displace your disappointment with the team onto fans.   

 

Ohh Heck yeah. You put to word exactly what I've felt about a lot of this thread and many others. Like Dang we're all fans. Why take out frustrations on other fans?  its cool to disagree but some people need to chill. Not trying to butt in on you and oldman. Proceed. 

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, they did.  I’ve acknowledged this many times.   Not scoring on a drive in which you scored 29 points is different than allowing your opponent to score more points than they had all year.    The year before, the KC offense obliterated our defense even worse.  Both games without our best defensive player, Benford 
 

I don’t feel like we’ve lost ground to KC.  They had a helluva draft, but don’t think they’ve upgraded their OL very much if at all.  Also acknowledging that their offense could be better with rice and royals in the mix.  
 

I also think we had a helluva draft and upgraded our DL in a big way in the offseason.  Our pass rush, on paper, is much better than last year imo.  Our secondary is clearly better this year, unless you think Rasul Douglas is better than our new additions.  Our LBs are the same and have a chance to be healthy.  
 

I will say, our offense didn’t get much better, if at all.  The improvements will have to come from player progression.  Possible.  

 

 

What I think you discount is the importance of being clutch on offense.    Allen and the offense have choked in the clutch with victory in sight in 3 of 4 chances against Houston and KC.      

 

I really couldn't care less about counting points allowed against the Chiefs anymore.    The games were eminently winnable.  Bills fans are just myopic on the topic.

 

The Kansas City defense averages allowing just over 30 points per game in the SB with Mahomes.

 

But has won 3 of 5 because they've produced in the clutch offensively.

 

Tyreek came up huge the first one.   Kelce has been surreal in the clutch over and over.   His playoff numbers are unreal.   Worthy tore the Bills up in the AFCCG.    

 

Meanwhile........Allen has had the vanishing choke artist Diggs and a bunch of forgettable nobodies.    The one game where Allen looked clutch at the end was when a receiver put up a 200 yard game.  

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

30 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Ohh Heck yeah. You put to word exactly what I've felt about a lot of this thread and many others. Like Dang we're all fans. Why take out frustrations on other fans?  its cool to disagree but some people need to chill. Not trying to butt in on you and oldman. Proceed. 

I love having great debates with my fellow fans here.  I do not agree with being exclusively negative just to be negative, and changing topics from that of the original thread to do so.  Hence my reaction herein.

 

This thread is about WRs.  We lost Cooper and Hollins.  We gained Palmer and Moore.  I don’t see that as a step back, although I would have loved to have seen Hollis stay.  I believe Brady’s offense truly is set up for the Everyman eat’s philosophy, hence the outstanding performance on offense last year.  
 

I do think Coleman was having a decent rookie year before his wrist, and he did not do well on his return.  He has been challenged by management and I see him improving.  I am not one to assume a player cannot improve with more experience in the league.  
 

while the thread is about WRs, I think you have to also look at all receivers to evaluate the potential for the passing game.  I feel similarly about Kincaid as I do Coleman.   I don’t slam a guy for performance dropping off because of injuries.  He has been challenged to get tougher and I think he will.  I also think we tend to discount the role of our RBs in the passing game.

 

So I am not terribly concerned about the receivers as it stands.  And if Beane decides to trade a pick or two to get say a Pickens, I don’t see that as him admitting failure; I see it as him doing his job to try to continually improve his roster.
 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by oldmanfan

[BADOLBILZ]

37 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Ohh Heck yeah. You put to word exactly what I've felt about a lot of this thread and many others. Like Dang we're all fans. Why take out frustrations on other fans?  its cool to disagree but some people need to chill. Not trying to butt in on you and oldman. Proceed. 

 

 

Yep if you Billieve so strongly in the Bills WR's why are you even in the thread?    When I see a topic I think is BS or don't have an opinion on I don't even think of opening it.   I don't go in just to exclaim that fans are just so negative or imply that there is an ulterior motive for their opinion outside of wanting a better football product put on the field. 😂   It's just idiotic.

 

Our all time homer/fan-shamer on TSW really exposed it all one time when he drunk posted from a bar whining pathetically about why do the Bills hurt him so much?  What did he do to deserve this?   Then he sobered up and went right back to bashing fans for having any expectations.   They can't put the failure on the organization. That would be treason.  They can't process that it's ultimately just a product created by a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry.  Instead they turn their frustration on the fans.   

[4merper4mer]

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep if you Billieve so strongly in the Bills WR's why are you even in the thread?    When I see a topic I think is BS or don't have an opinion on I don't even think of opening it.   I don't go in just to exclaim that fans are just so negative or imply that there is an ulterior motive for their opinion outside of wanting a better football product put on the field. 😂   It's just idiotic.

 

Our all time homer/fan-shamer on TSW really exposed it all one time when he drunk posted from a bar whining pathetically about why do the Bills hurt him so much?  What did he do to deserve this?   Then he sobered up and went right back to bashing fans for having any expectations.   They can't put the failure on the organization. That would be treason.  They can't process that it's ultimately just a product created by a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry.  Instead they turn their frustration on the fans.   

You are so right.  The ultimate sign of your objectivity is choosing a screen name that runs down the offensive line that was on the field whenever you chose the name.  At this point though you might consider renaming yourself “BadWRBilz” to stay up to date with your objectivity.

[Cash]

56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep if you Billieve so strongly in the Bills WR's why are you even in the thread?    When I see a topic I think is BS or don't have an opinion on I don't even think of opening it.   I don't go in just to exclaim that fans are just so negative or imply that there is an ulterior motive for their opinion outside of wanting a better football product put on the field. 😂   It's just idiotic.

 

Our all time homer/fan-shamer on TSW really exposed it all one time when he drunk posted from a bar whining pathetically about why do the Bills hurt him so much?  What did he do to deserve this?   Then he sobered up and went right back to bashing fans for having any expectations.   They can't put the failure on the organization. That would be treason.  They can't process that it's ultimately just a product created by a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry.  Instead they turn their frustration on the fans.   

You seem a bit confused. Are you aware that all of your sternly-worded letters on here do not, in fact, go straight to the Buffalo Bills organization? 
 

Reading the last couple pages of this thread, I gotta tell ya: You come across as a really angry dude who is taking out his frustration on other posters. My impression is that you’re mad that other people are happy. Just FYI.

Go Bills!

[CoudyBills]

3 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

There’s no doubt that offense isn’t a problem in the playoffs, it’s the Defense.  The real debate is to whether it’s:

 

1. situational coaching and ability to make adjustments.

2. The overall defensive scheme

3. Quality of play / injuries or

4. A little of all the above  

I think a big part of it is McDermott vs Andy Reid, Andy has his number.  Who knows him better?