Chuck Dickerson dead at 86

[stuvian]

Chuck's Buffalo media career extended well into the decade of fail. When JP Losman made this TD pass to Lee Evans vs the Texans (1:25) Dickerson spoke of it like the immaculate reception. He was a good hype artist who genuinely loved the sound of his voice more than the Bills

 

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Chuck's Buffalo media career extended well into the decade of fail. When JP Losman made this TD pass to Lee Evans vs the Texans (1:25) Dickerson spoke of it like the immaculate reception. He was a good hype artist who genuinely loved the sound of his voice more than the Bills

 

 

 

Does he speak about it in a different video or audio clip?

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Chuck's Buffalo media career extended well into the decade of fail. When JP Losman made this TD pass to Lee Evans vs the Texans (1:25) Dickerson spoke of it like the immaculate reception. He was a good hype artist who genuinely loved the sound of his voice more than the Bills

 

 

 

What I would give to let Josh have a WR as talented as Lee Evans was

[Punching Bag]

is the Irish Wake still going on?

[Charles Romes]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

What I would give to let Josh have a WR as talented as Lee Evans was

 The guy that lost the AFCCG for the ravens?

[PromoTheRobot]

Anger and fear are the most potent ways to get a reaction from people. It's also the easiest. Chuck Dickerson succeeded on the radio because he got people mad. And when you're mad, you stop thinking. 

[Bill from NYC]

17 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

What I would give to let Josh have a WR as talented as Lee Evans was

Evans was decent. He was very fast but he was a one trick pony.

[beerme1]

6 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Evans was decent. He was very fast but he was a one trick pony.

 

He was good, but he was no EMO.

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Evans was decent. He was very fast but he was a one trick pony.

The ONE trick this offense and Josh has been missing

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

 

9 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

He was good, but he was no EMO.

Emo Phillips played football?!  G'wan! 🤨

*

[Beast]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The ONE trick this offense and Josh has been missing

In this day of keeping everything in front of the safeties, Evans would have a difficult time.

Edited March 30 by Beast

[Rampant Buffalo]

On 3/3/2024 at 9:27 PM, Livinginthepast said:

In the Titans playoff game, Johnson was 10 for 22 for 130 yards passing with SIX sacks. He fumbled twice in the game including once for a safety. Johnson did enough to win on the last drive and I give him credit for his perseverance but he was average to crap in that game. Even at half time the TV hosts like Steve Young were calling for him to be pulled. Yet we should have won that game because just like all of that 99 season, Wade had the defense playing well and they contained Mcnair and George. But just like 13 seconds the Bills found an improbable way to lose.

 

For the record Johnson looked great against Indy the week before in a game where the Colts didnt show up but that was only his 2nd game of the season! No team and coach in their right minds would bench a starter (Flutie) of a team that was 11-5 in a regular season for a cold unused backup on the off chance that they would be better than the starter for a playoff game. Even had Johnson won that game it was still an incredibly bad choice to bench Flutie and there was a good chance that the decision threw the whole team off. There was also a good chance that Flutie would be back as the starter the next week due to Johnson's mediocrity. Absolutely unprofessional and bush league for Ralph to interfere and force that decision and gutless of Wade to allow it. But in the end very Billsy.

 

There were two times that Jevon Kearse rushed untouched to Rob Johnson. Untouched. I mean, I could sort of see that if Kearse was a blitzing safety or something. He wasn't. He was a defensive end. It shouldn't have been a complete shock to the OL that a DE would want to rush the passer. Or course Johnson is going to take sacks on those plays. Any QB would. Those plays generated at least one of Johnson's fumbles.

 

During the late '90s, the Bills OL had one starter-caliber player: Ruben Brown. The other starters were at a Ryan Bates level, which is to say, quality backup. And quite frankly, I'd take Ryan Bates over Corbin Lacina or Jamie Nails. So you have an OL that's quality backup caliber, except for Ruben Brown. Then you have a sack waiting to happen type QB, in the form of Rob Johnson. But, when Johnson was given good protection, he played at a high level. That's why he was able to put up outstanding numbers for the Jacksonville Jaguars, while being protected by Hall of Fame LT Tony Boselli. When he was with the Bills, he'd often do better in the second half of games than the first half, because in the second half he'd receive some level of pass protection. During the Titans game, the Bills' offensive production came in the second half, due to the OL doing more in the second half than the absolute nothing it had done in the first.

 

During Johnson's time with the Bills, Butler invested no significant resources into bringing in new quality OL. Like, nothing. He wildly overestimated the play of John Fina, and gave him a monster contract. One year into that new contract, the Bills' new GM Tom Donahoe cut him. Fina then signed with another team, at the vet minimum. And that was Buffalo's second-best OL, after Ruben Brown.

 

In the late '90s, the Bills defense was by far the best I've ever seen from a Bills team. I mean, that defense was for real. It was the type of defense that wins championships, as long as your offense is at least somewhat good. Flutie was too old to be the QB of the future, and it was either in the 2000 or 2001 season that it became clear he was no longer a credible starter. Rob Johnson at least had youth on his side, but it had become clear he was not the answer either, at least not when playing behind one of the worst OLs of the league. But, maybe he could have accomplished something, had he played behind an OL that was at least somewhat credible? The only way to find out would have been to invest resources into making the OL better. Nothing could have been further from John Butler's thoughts. So now you have a situation where your QB is 100% guaranteed to fail, either due to old age (Flutie), or due to the fact that the roster construction homes in on Johnson's greatest weakness (sack propensity). And, you have this absolutely magnificent defense, which needs at least something from the offense if it's going to challenge for a championship. Sadly the greatness of that defense disappeared quickly, due to old age, injuries, and Ralph Wilson's unwise decision to fire Wade Phillips.

 

[Billy Claude]

6 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

There were two times that Jevon Kearse rushed untouched to Rob Johnson. Untouched. I mean, I could sort of see that if Kearse was a blitzing safety or something. He wasn't. He was a defensive end. It shouldn't have been a complete shock to the OL that a DE would want to rush the passer. Or course Johnson is going to take sacks on those plays. Any QB would. Those plays generated at least one of Johnson's fumbles.

 

During the late '90s, the Bills OL had one starter-caliber player: Ruben Brown. The other starters were at a Ryan Bates level, which is to say, quality backup. And quite frankly, I'd take Ryan Bates over Corbin Lacina or Jamie Nails. So you have an OL that's quality backup caliber, except for Ruben Brown. Then you have a sack waiting to happen type QB, in the form of Rob Johnson. But, when Johnson was given good protection, he played at a high level. That's why he was able to put up outstanding numbers for the Jacksonville Jaguars, while being protected by Hall of Fame LT Tony Boselli. When he was with the Bills, he'd often do better in the second half of games than the first half, because in the second half he'd receive some level of pass protection. During the Titans game, the Bills' offensive production came in the second half, due to the OL doing more in the second half than the absolute nothing it had done in the first.

 

 

 

 

Rob Johnson was sacked 7 times in 35 pass attempts when he was in Jacksonville while protected by the HOF LT.  That is 1 sack every 6 dropbacks which was a little worse than in Buffalo where he was sacked once every 7 drop backs.   That is not a sustainable way to win games or stay off the IR.  His so called "outstanding" numbers in Jacksonville occurred in a sample size of one game where he threw for 294 yards out of his 368 total yards with the Jaguars.  In a sign of things to come, Johnson had to miss most of the third quarter of that game due to injury though he came back and played all of the 4th quarter (nobody said Johnson was not tough).

 

Flutie was sacked about once every 23 dropbacks when Flutie and Johnson were on the Bills together, so at approximately 30% the rate Johnson was sacked.   The Bills offensive line wasn't great during that time but it wasn't as bad as it looked when Johnson was QB. 

 

There should have been all kinds of red flags when the Bills traded for Johnson but it was before any form of analytics. As Flutie supposedly said when he left "I may not be a great quarterback but you can't tell me that I'm not better than that guy."

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:18 PM by Billy Claude

[Irv]

5 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

There were two times that Jevon Kearse rushed untouched to Rob Johnson. Untouched. I mean, I could sort of see that if Kearse was a blitzing safety or something. He wasn't. He was a defensive end. It shouldn't have been a complete shock to the OL that a DE would want to rush the passer. Or course Johnson is going to take sacks on those plays. Any QB would. Those plays generated at least one of Johnson's fumbles.

 

During the late '90s, the Bills OL had one starter-caliber player: Ruben Brown. The other starters were at a Ryan Bates level, which is to say, quality backup. And quite frankly, I'd take Ryan Bates over Corbin Lacina or Jamie Nails. So you have an OL that's quality backup caliber, except for Ruben Brown. Then you have a sack waiting to happen type QB, in the form of Rob Johnson. But, when Johnson was given good protection, he played at a high level. That's why he was able to put up outstanding numbers for the Jacksonville Jaguars, while being protected by Hall of Fame LT Tony Boselli. When he was with the Bills, he'd often do better in the second half of games than the first half, because in the second half he'd receive some level of pass protection. During the Titans game, the Bills' offensive production came in the second half, due to the OL doing more in the second half than the absolute nothing it had done in the first.

 

During Johnson's time with the Bills, Butler invested no significant resources into bringing in new quality OL. Like, nothing. He wildly overestimated the play of John Fina, and gave him a monster contract. One year into that new contract, the Bills' new GM Tom Donahoe cut him. Fina then signed with another team, at the vet minimum. And that was Buffalo's second-best OL, after Ruben Brown.

 

In the late '90s, the Bills defense was by far the best I've ever seen from a Bills team. I mean, that defense was for real. It was the type of defense that wins championships, as long as your offense is at least somewhat good. Flutie was too old to be the QB of the future, and it was either in the 2000 or 2001 season that it became clear he was no longer a credible starter. Rob Johnson at least had youth on his side, but it had become clear he was not the answer either, at least not when playing behind one of the worst OLs of the league. But, maybe he could have accomplished something, had he played behind an OL that was at least somewhat credible? The only way to find out would have been to invest resources into making the OL better. Nothing could have been further from John Butler's thoughts. So now you have a situation where your QB is 100% guaranteed to fail, either due to old age (Flutie), or due to the fact that the roster construction homes in on Johnson's greatest weakness (sack propensity). And, you have this absolutely magnificent defense, which needs at least something from the offense if it's going to challenge for a championship. Sadly the greatness of that defense disappeared quickly, due to old age, injuries, and Ralph Wilson's unwise decision to fire Wade Phillips.

 

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

[Rampant Buffalo]

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

Rob Johnson was sacked 7 times in 35 pass attempts when he was in Jacksonville while protected by the HOF LT.  That is 1 sack every 6 dropbacks which was a little worse than in Buffalo where he was sacked once every 7 drop backs.   That is not a sustainable way to win games or stay off the IR.  His so called "outstanding" numbers in Jacksonville occurred in a sample size of one game where he threw for 294 yards out of his 368 total yards with the Jaguars.  In a sign of things to come, Johnson had to miss most of the third quarter of that game due to injury though he came back and played all of the 4th quarter (nobody said Johnson was not tough).

 

Flutie was sacked about once every 23 dropbacks when Flutie and Johnson were on the Bills together, so at approximately 30% the rate Johnson was sacked.   The Bills offensive line wasn't great during that time but it wasn't as bad as it looked when Johnson was QB. 

 

There should have been all kinds of red flags when the Bills traded for Johnson but it was before any form of analytics. As Flutie supposedly said when he left "I may not be a great quarterback but you can't tell me that I'm not better than that guy."

 

 

 

I hadn't been aware of Johnson's high sack totals when he was with the Jacksonville Jaguars. I agree with you that that should have been a major red flag. Also small sample size, as you said.

 

The Bills were in a bit of a desperate situation when they traded for Johnson. Todd Collins had turned out not to be Jim Kelly's successor, and Billy Joe Hobart wasn't the answer either. Even prior to Johnson's arrival, the Bills already had a great defense. So they had to do something at quarterback to try to level up the offense.

 

Desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Maybe the Bills told themselves, "The good things we saw from Johnson in Jacksonville? Those were for real. But the bad things we saw, such as the high sack rate? Small sample size." That's desperate person type thinking. But still, the Bills must have had some uncertainty about Johnson. So they bring in a guy like Flutie. Flutie had started off in the NFL, then washed out. He then had a great career in the CFL, including three Grey Cups. But he had a chip on his shoulder, and wanted to prove he belonged in the NFL as a starter. He only had a couple years or so to do this, before father time caught up with him. Adding Doug Flutie and Rob Johnson to the team at the same time was a recipe for a QB controversy. 

 

Rob Johnson made the OL look worse than it actually was; while Flutie made the OL look better than it was. If I had the Cowboys' OL of the mid '90s, I'd take Johnson over Flutie. Johnson was the better passer when given good protection, especially on intermediate to deep passes. But with a backup caliber OL, such as the OL the Bills had in the late '90s, maybe you take Flutie over Johnson.

 

There is also a third possibility, which pretty much no one is going to agree with me on. The Bills OL played better in the second half of games, and typically started looking pretty decent halfway through the third quarter. So why not play Flutie for the first half of every game, and maybe the first drive of the third quarter. Then put Johnson in for the rest of the game. A defense is typically going to prepare for one or the other of those QBs, so you punish them for whichever one they didn't prepare for. Moreover, you're taking advantage of Flutie's best attribute (making the OL look better than it is), when you need that attribute the most. You're also taking advantage of Johnson's best attribute (good intermediate to deep passing) when there may be the pass protection necessary for that attribute to matter.

[Beast]

Why does this thread keep getting dug up?

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

I hadn't been aware of Johnson's high sack totals when he was with the Jacksonville Jaguars. I agree with you that that should have been a major red flag. Also small sample size, as you said.

 

The Bills were in a bit of a desperate situation when they traded for Johnson. Todd Collins had turned out not to be Jim Kelly's successor, and Billy Joe Hobart wasn't the answer either. Even prior to Johnson's arrival, the Bills already had a great defense. So they had to do something at quarterback to try to level up the offense.

 

Desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Maybe the Bills told themselves, "The good things we saw from Johnson in Jacksonville? Those were for real. But the bad things we saw, such as the high sack rate? Small sample size." That's desperate person type thinking. But still, the Bills must have had some uncertainty about Johnson. So they bring in a guy like Flutie. Flutie had started off in the NFL, then washed out. He then had a great career in the CFL, including three Grey Cups. But he had a chip on his shoulder, and wanted to prove he belonged in the NFL as a starter. He only had a couple years or so to do this, before father time caught up with him. Adding Doug Flutie and Rob Johnson to the team at the same time was a recipe for a QB controversy. 

 

Rob Johnson made the OL look worse than it actually was; while Flutie made the OL look better than it was. If I had the Cowboys' OL of the mid '90s, I'd take Johnson over Flutie. Johnson was the better passer when given good protection, especially on intermediate to deep passes. But with a backup caliber OL, such as the OL the Bills had in the late '90s, maybe you take Flutie over Johnson.

 

There is also a third possibility, which pretty much no one is going to agree with me on. The Bills OL played better in the second half of games, and typically started looking pretty decent halfway through the third quarter. So why not play Flutie for the first half of every game, and maybe the first drive of the third quarter. Then put Johnson in for the rest of the game. A defense is typically going to prepare for one or the other of those QBs, so you punish them for whichever one they didn't prepare for. Moreover, you're taking advantage of Flutie's best attribute (making the OL look better than it is), when you need that attribute the most. You're also taking advantage of Johnson's best attribute (good intermediate to deep passing) when there may be the pass protection necessary for that attribute to matter.

 

I appreciate the response. Actually Johnson was remarkably consistent.  He was sacked once every 6.5 dropbacks after he left the Bills also.  I think the best comp for Rob Johnson is Zach Wilson.  All the skill in the world but just didn't know how to play QB.

 

I will have to check this but I seem to remember the Bills signing Flutie before trading for Johnson.   I think that was one of the reasons why Flutie was so pissed from the beginning.  Definitely agree that the Bills were desperate, also I guess that Johnson also looked very good in preseason games, though so did Nathan Peterman.  Definitely also agree that Flutie was not good that season before the Titans playoff game.

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:05 PM by Billy Claude

[EasternOHBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Beast said:

Why does this thread keep getting dug up?

 

So why did you bring out your shovel to help then?