The AJ Brown OT catch was a fumble!!!!

[ExiledInIllinois]

They first ruled it a catch & fumble. Immediately changed it.

 

You don't think the booth expedited things? Screamed in Donaghy Hoculi's ear.

 

It would have ended the game and they would have had to escape the stadium alive!

[JESSEFEFFER]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The ruling in the Bills Eagles game was a fumble.

 

The difference is the chargers receiver tucked the ball and moved forward before fumbling.   Brown was just completing the tuck when it came out.  They are different in my eyes

I must have listened to a a different broadcast.  A third step is one of the things that would make it a catch that did not happen.  He was not saying he has to see a third step or else its not a catch

I heard him say it as the key thing officials look for.  As if it's the only thing that matters.  There were five other examples in the rule that are the equal of the third step including tucking the ball.

[Jeffbigalls]

It wasn't a catch 

On 11/26/2023 at 8:43 PM, LarryMadman said:

Why 3 steps now or it isn't a catch? So every time someone only has 2 feet inbounds before going out of bounds will it be considered an incomplete catch because there wasn't 3 steps? Bills got hosed yet again! This Bills consistently getting screwed has got to stop.

 

On 11/26/2023 at 8:51 PM, BuffBillsForLife said:

It was incomplete, he simply didn't have the ball long enough for it to be a catch.  

 

Also refs really, really do not like making calls that DIRECTLY end a game, so an overturn was never going to happen.

0.6 seconds by hand from time he touched it until it came out

[Thrivefourfive]

It’s supposed to called a fumble on the field and then reviewed officially. That’s what all the tv analysts say every time these things happen. But not Sunday. The refs were so bad they should be moved down to bottom feeder games… hope to see more of the Hoculi crew this season. 

[Jeffbigalls]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:10 PM, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t think they lost to a better team today; at least that’s not what I saw. I did see them lose to a better coach today, and I credit them for it. The officiating was bad , but that’s to be expected these days. 

They lost to a better team, a team that can close out a game, perform under emense pressure. So yes they lost to the better team, bad teams don't get to 10-1

[ExiledInIllinois]

Refs don't like to make calls that directly end a game.

 

???

 

Then why didn't they call the trip in the Jets game to open the season?

 

😆... 

 

That was a no-call to end the game.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:36 PM, Wizard said:

Sure. This has more to do though with a swiss cheese 2nd half defense, a crappy field goal kicker, and a HC over his head.

....and a RB who can't catch an easy wheel route....

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Jeffbigalls said:

They lost to a better team, a team that can close out a game, perform under emense pressure. So yes they lost to the better team, bad teams don't get to 10-1

Yes they do. 😆 

 

It's called luck.

Donaghy Hoculi:

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:59 PM, PayDaBill$ said:

Even through Bills colored glasses it is was an incomplete pass especially based on the current rules.  If you ask me the entire catch no catch BS is so convoluted. It really needs to be updated and simplified.

Tucking the ball is a football move.

[QLBillsFan]

What I find interesting/annoying is Ref Hoc essentially justified a few of the obvious terrible calls. Since when does an individual crew chief address game calls? Vs the league saying jeez they got it wrong?? Is this the Hoc privilege family propaganda ?? 
Just seemed real odd post game 😳

[Boatdrinks]

26 minutes ago, Jeffbigalls said:

They lost to a better team, a team that can close out a game, perform under emense pressure. So yes they lost to the better team, bad teams don't get to 10-1

Didn’t say they are a bad team, just didn’t see a superior team to ours. PHL was under no immense pressure to win at 9-1. The Bills needed the game more - a lot more. Their coach put them in a position to win after getting outplayed pretty much all afternoon, so a tip of the cap to them. 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I heard him say it as the key thing officials look for.  As if it's the only thing that matters.  There were five other examples in the rule that are the equal of the third step including tucking the ball.

it was the key thing as it was the one closest to being completed 

18 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

What I find interesting/annoying is Ref Hoc essentially justified a few of the obvious terrible calls. Since when does an individual crew chief address game calls? Vs the league saying jeez they got it wrong?? Is this the Hoc privilege family propaganda ?? 
Just seemed real odd post game 😳

they always have post game press access - just rarely is it interesting enough to report on 

[ExiledInIllinois]

NepoHoc!

 

😆 

[Matt_In_NH]

9 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I heard him say it as the key thing officials look for.  As if it's the only thing that matters.  There were five other examples in the rule that are the equal of the third step including tucking the ball.

I think you are taking what you heard too literal.   Did he also not say something about element of time?

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Didn’t say they are a bad team, just didn’t see a superior team to ours. PHL was under no immense pressure to win at 9-1. The Bills needed the game more - a lot more. Their coach put them in a position to win after getting outplayed pretty much all afternoon, so a tip of the cap to them. 

He never said Philly was under immense pressure so your reply is distorted.  He clearly said they were under emense pressure, which is totally different.

[Livinginthepast]

8 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

What I find interesting/annoying is Ref Hoc essentially justified a few of the obvious terrible calls. Since when does an individual crew chief address game calls? Vs the league saying jeez they got it wrong?? Is this the Hoc privilege family propaganda ?? 
Just seemed real odd post game 😳

When you are from Officiating aristocracy like Hoculi, you have special privileges! Both Hoculis get to sleep with your bride on the wedding night as is custom after all!

[JerseyBills]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:33 PM, Special K said:

Two steps and a football move!

 

If it was called a fumble on the field like it should have been, there would be no way the booth would overturn it.

 

The last of a series of biased calls in favor of the Eagles throughout the game!!

It's mind boggling, likely deliberate, that officials didn't even give themselves a CHANCE to review it

Sun night, Keenan Allen had a similar play, I feel he had even less control time and was ruled a fumble. Officiating is disgraceful but ratings are sky high so the nfl wont do **** about it 

9 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Didn’t say they are a bad team, just didn’t see a superior team to ours. PHL was under no immense pressure to win at 9-1. The Bills needed the game more - a lot more. Their coach put them in a position to win after getting outplayed pretty much all afternoon, so a tip of the cap to them. 

There's no superior team this year. We can go toe to toe with literally every team, despite our record

9 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yes they do. 😆 

 

It's called luck.

Donaghy Hoculi:

 

 

Disgraceful and Allen gets flagged when Davis was right there! That's why he threw it! 

That cost us huge, we likely score a TD. And of course we miss the fg to put the cherry on top

 

Can't stand any team losing due to b.s penalties or non calls. This is a crisis that must be addressed 

 

Why not have a guy watch every play, with multiple angles and slow mo and correct missed or wrong calls, including penalties? Because they want refs manipulating games! That was likely the most bet game for 4pm slot, clearly they had motive

Edited November 29, 2023 by JerseyBills

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I think you are taking what you heard too literal.   Did he also not say something about element of time?

Sure.  There is no minimum time element to the rule so saying there wasn't enough time from catch to tuck is irrelevant.  Tucked ball = a 3rd step.

[Drew21PA]

If you watched this game and saw this you can’t say he didn’t catch that balll

 

cmon he caught it

[Matt_In_NH]

50 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Sure.  There is no minimum time element to the rule so saying there wasn't enough time from catch to tuck is irrelevant.  Tucked ball = a 3rd step.

Ball was not tucked though, he was in the process of tucking when the ball came loose.  Bolded/underlined below is from the rule, time is part of the rule.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/

 

COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) in the field of play, at the sideline, or in the end zone if a player, who is inbounds:

a. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

b. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

c. after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, performs any act common to the game (e.g., tuck the ball away, extend it forward, take an additional step, turn upfield, or avoid or ward off an opponent), or he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Ball was not tucked though, he was in the process of tucking when the ball came loose.  Bolded/underlined below is from the rule, time is part of the rule.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/

 

COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) in the field of play, at the sideline, or in the end zone if a player, who is inbounds:

a. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

b. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

c. after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, performs any act common to the game (e.g., tuck the ball away, extend it forward, take an additional step, turn upfield, or avoid or ward off an opponent), or he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.

 A stationery receiver catches the ball in the EZ but does not take a step nor do any of the other football acts.  After a healthy period of time a defender pokes the ball out.  Of course it's a catch and a TD.  There was possession of the ball for enough time to have done an act common to the game although in this case there was no reason to do so.  That's what the bolded means.   

 

There is no minimum time to establish possession in the rule.  It's only time enough to do a football act of which they list 6 examples, tucking being the first one given.  Now you say that the process of tucking the ball wasn't finished.  He caught the ball above his head and brought it down to his side, covering the second 1 on his jersey.  How much lower was he going with the ball?  It was in the tucked position.  No player takes the ball any lower.  So when does the tucking process end?

[T master]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:35 PM, Simon said:

Either call would have been both right and wrong.

Glad they didn't let a call decide the game. 🤷‍♂️

 

Very true but with all the calls that went against the Bills in that game i would have gladly took that one !

 

It seems that the Bills are always on the short end of it when it comes to bad calls being made it is very lop sided when it comes to bad calls against the Bills in games .