Week 9 thread - We’re on to Cincinnati

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, boyst said:

Benford is playing very well and consistent. Dane Jackson isnt getting respect. Taron Johnson has been covering a lot of big guys, TE's primarily. Tomorrow he will be facing a stout challenge.

 

Without Milano to help in the secondary we have seen Johnson have a tougher go.

 

What did you think of the strategy of going to Dime and bringing Poyer up while putting Rapp at safety

[boyst]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

What did you think of the strategy of going to Dime and bringing Poyer up while putting Rapp at safety

I thought it was interesting and more of a test drive for the future of the season. I had mentioned it a few times and it was interesting that we didn't notice the difference on the field compared to George Wilson doing it a decade ago. 43 is the mike will forever haunt me.

 

It's somewhat wicked because it could take all the life that is left from poyer to play that close to the ball in the box.

 

Having Rapp as the deep safety surprised me. I think he's experienced enough that each week doing this he will feel and fit better. The harmony between Milano-White-Johnson-Hyde-Poyer was always something incredible. I'm hoping new GB guy can fill the role with experience and we can get back to a symbiotic level of play, as Bernard has fit in well with them.

 

To the individual characterists I had noticed Poyer actually playing like a WLB the last few years coming in hard. It was always reason I liked him at strong safety because he was also so damn good on the strong side when we had our pass rush ***** up.

 

It beats him up.

 

However...The first 3 games he was playing a more pure safety position. Many had noticed he wasn't playing as well in their opinion.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, Caesar said:

This is your problem. You cannot distinguish between "attacking" vs "reacting".  You think because it is a Bills board I should just shut up, bend over, and take it.

As a combat vet that ate way too much sand and a golden gloves boxer for many years, Im not really good at just getting smacked around by immature people.   

I'll try to do better, but make no promises.

 

 

Um…. Dude, if your manner of reacting is to attack, there IS no practical difference between attacking and reacting.  

 

I’ve been here a long time with a couple previous screen names (no, I wasn’t banned).  I’ve seen fans of other teams come and go many a time.  I’ve seen them come with respect, and be respected and well regarded in turn.  I’ve seen them come in hot and been asked by a mod in PM and/or by other posters to tone it down and turn to having great football convo, I’ve seen them come in hot and stay hot and get the bum’s rush out the door.

 

I’ll say this.  You’re essentially telling me your only conversational tool is a hammer.   As the saying goes, “when your only tool is a hammer, Everything looks like a Nail.”

 

There’s a lot of room between being pugnacious and attacking in response to a bit of snark, vs “shut up, bend over, and take it”.  I don’t find it necessary to be rude or go around attacking people, but I’d like to think most folks here know that doesn’t mean they’re gonna have a ‘battle of wits” with an unarmed person if they choose to take me on and I choose to respond.  

 

But I feel no requirement to respond; I will, if it suits my mood and purpose.  I won’t, if it doesn’t.  That doesn’t mean I’m “bending over and taking it”, it’s a message board ferCripesakes.  No one is going to push your face in the sand or kick sand in it if you focus on what you say you came for, which is football talk.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Caesar said:

This is your problem. You cannot distinguish between "attacking" vs "reacting".  You think because it is a Bills board I should just shut up, bend over, and take it.

As a combat vet that ate way too much sand and a golden gloves boxer for many years, Im not really good at just getting smacked around by immature people.   

I'll try to do better, but make no promises.

 

I've never been tempted to go to another team's message board. It just seems like an invitation for ill-will. You seem to think you're the victim of injustice. I don't know you. I recollect finding you insincere and annoying last year, but my memory is hazy on that. There's no way to verify whether you are indeed a golden gloves pugilist and veteran. What I can verify is how you interact with folks I know for years as posters here. Some of them are consistently insightful, and generally quite decent to others. The fact that you have come here for several years and provoked them is not evidence in your favor. And really, what is the meaning of these tough guy poses? That by itself hardly radiates maturity.

[Chandler#81]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Um…. Dude, if your manner of reacting is to attack, there IS no practical difference between attacking and reacting.  

 

I’ve been here a long time with a couple previous screen names (no, I wasn’t banned).  I’ve seen fans of other teams come and go many a time.  I’ve seen them come with respect, and be respected and well regarded in turn.  I’ve seen them come in hot and been asked by a mod in PM and/or by other posters to tone it down and turn to having great football convo, I’ve seen them come in hot and stay hot and get the bum’s rush out the door.

 

I’ll say this.  You’re essentially telling me your only conversational tool is a hammer.   As the saying goes, “when your only tool is a hammer, Everything looks like a Nail.”

 

There’s a lot of room between being pugnacious and attacking in response to a bit of snark, vs “shut up, bend over, and take it”.  I don’t find it necessary to be rude or go around attacking people, but I’d like to think most folks here know that doesn’t mean they’re gonna have a ‘battle of wits” with an unarmed person if they choose to take me on and I choose to respond.  

 

But I feel no requirement to respond; I will, if it suits my mood and purpose.  I won’t, if it doesn’t.  That doesn’t mean I’m “bending over and taking it”, it’s a message board ferCripesakes.  No one is going to push your face in the sand or kick sand in it if you focus on what you say you came for, which is football talk.

My favorite thing!😜

[Blank Stare]

[Beck Water]

26 minutes ago, boyst said:

I thought it was interesting and more of a test drive for the future of the season. I had mentioned it a few times and it was interesting that we didn't notice the difference on the field compared to George Wilson doing it a decade ago. 43 is the mike will forever haunt me.

 

It's somewhat wicked because it could take all the life that is left from poyer to play that close to the ball in the box.

 

Having Rapp as the deep safety surprised me. I think he's experienced enough that each week doing this he will feel and fit better. The harmony between Milano-White-Johnson-Hyde-Poyer was always something incredible. I'm hoping new GB guy can fill the role with experience and we can get back to a symbiotic level of play, as Bernard has fit in well with them.

 

To the individual characterists I had noticed Poyer actually playing like a WLB the last few years coming in hard. It was always reason I liked him at strong safety because he was also so damn good on the strong side when we had our pass rush ***** up.

 

It beats him up.

 

However...The first 3 games he was playing a more pure safety position. Many had noticed he wasn't playing as well in their opinion.

 

So riffing along your points….Yeah, Poyer and Hyde have the mind-meld going for sure.  So taking him out of that mind-meld duo would seem to lessen us at Safety.  

 

On the other hand, Damned Straight that part of the ‘secret sauce’ of the Bills D has been that Milano could really cover, and both Johnson and Poyer could play DB like a ‘backer.  So Poyer has been “taking the life” out of himself, by being willing to play hard like that for years…but it seems as though he’s really lost range this year, though maybe it’s just recovering from his week 3 knee injury that kept him out week 4.

 

An alternative view point would be maybe playing Poyer like a WLB will extend his playing window, because otherwise maybe as he meshes in more (I know LA fans would throw up in their mouths at the notion) Rapp might be playing better at safety?

 

I didn’t think Poyer had particular problems game 2 and 3 (before injury).  I thought he struggled some when he came back, ‘playing himself healthy’ was my take.  But he’s definitely lost some speed and range, so maybe putting him closer to the LOS and letting him thump is more helpful than wicked?

 

I agree that Bernard has fit in surprisingly well.  I thought Williams has shown flashes, but obviously the coaches decided he needs to go “back in the pot” to cook some more.

 

I just hope Benford’s hammy is nothing serious, and I hope Douglas comes on board quickly because frankly, I don’t seen Benford and Jackson as quite “good enough”.  Guess we’ll find out tomorrow……

 

18 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

My favorite thing!😜

 

Is that why there were “plumber’s candles” on your Cupcakes? 😘

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

The Bills listed Benford on injury report with a “hamstring” and designated him “limited”.  Most people would consider that definitive that Benford in fact has some form of hamstring injury which allowed him to practice, but kept him from completing the practice in full.

 

No need to “suspect” anything

 

 

Yep.........Shill isn't going to make up something like that.........he wouldn't be a shill if he did.

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, Aimee75 said:

I honestly feel no pressure/stress regarding this game. I don't see us winning it. I feel like we either get curb stomped, again, by this team, or we lose a very close one and we get some stupid penalty after a huge play that either gives The Bengals life, or guarantees their victory. Our healthier D last season could not stop them, so I cannot imagine our ailing D, the same one that made Mac Jones look like Tom Brady, stopping this team.

 

Our best bet is to hope to be on the winning end of a shootout. 

 

Sorry for being so negative, but The Bengals gave us fits last year and I did not think we did anything in the off season to counteract them. Obviously, we have some things out of our control, like the horrible injuries. I don't feel good or hopeful about this one, but I am just hoping we look somewhat competitive and make a game of it.

 

If we lose a close hard fought battle, I can live with that.  It greatly hurts us in the playoff hunt but I can live with the actual game.  If we get blown out again, I am going back into bleak mode.

7 hours ago, Caesar said:

 

 

Am I wrong in stating that Leslie practically made zero changes to the Bills defense?  It seemed to be a basic zone the entire game.  There is a lot of talk around the Bengals that film from that game is going to be no help as McDermott will be dialing up a wide variety of looks.  I can say that we do not do very well when a ton of guys are in the box and tight man coverage.  Our oline is doing better communicating but stunts & delayed pressure has been an issue.  Of course there is a risk in playing that way too much but it has been a problem at times.

 

Leslie was quoted as saying he doesn't make a lot of changes because they go with what they practice.  McD's defense is a little more aggressive but mostly the same as far as I can tell. Im no defensive expert though.  I felt like it was doing a better job when we had healthy players but losing White, Milano, and Jones have hurt a lot.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Herc11 said:

 

Rasul and the other two better be active and play. I don't care about terminology, these guys are vets. Let their instincts fill in the gaps. This isn't a game to be coaching timid.

 

Poor communication leads to terrible defense.  Most broken plays are either the guy fell or they didn't communicate well.  

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Herc11 said:

 

Rasul and the other two better be active and play. I don't care about terminology, these guys are vets. Let their instincts fill in the gaps. This isn't a game to be coaching timid.

 

Suggestion: if you want to deepen your understanding, wander over to the JT O’Sullivan thread and follow the sub-thread where I speculate that Tampa was trying to leverage Josh’s tendencies and Hoofhearted tells me it’s just busted coverage.  There’s a back and forth where I ask who should have been covering Shakir and  Hoofhearted, Buffalo716, Einstein, and a couple others respond with a back-and-forth about what the coverage actually is (spoiler: go with Hoof) and therefore who should be picking him up.  

 

It’s pretty eye-opening about just how intricate coverage responsibilities really are, just how subtle the clues that the QB needs to pick up about what the coverage is can be, and so forth.  “Instincts”, in the sense of “go with your gut” can truly equal blown coverage and big gains.  

 

The “instinctive” coaches and front office people talk about, means something very different - it means someone who understands the offense and understands what that means to their role in the specific defense they’re playing in so well, that they can react with out conscious thought

 

But it doesn’t mean “go out and ad lib”, which is what not understanding the specific defensive responsibilities in different options specified by a given play call would lead to.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Low Positive]

I went out for sushi, and on the way home I saw a coyote standing on a highway median. That was just off I75 in Cincinnati. Make of they what you will.

[Dr.Sack]

Since Burrowhead is no longer after tomorrow night PAYCOR/The Jungle/Paul Brown Stadium will be known as ___________?
 

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So riffing along your points….Yeah, Poyer and Hyde have the mind-meld going for sure.  So taking him out of that mind-meld duo would seem to lessen us at Safety.  

 

On the other hand, Damned Straight that part of the ‘secret sauce’ of the Bills D has been that Milano could really cover, and both Johnson and Poyer could play DB like a ‘backer.  So Poyer has been “taking the life” out of himself, by being willing to play hard like that for years…but it seems as though he’s really lost range this year, though maybe it’s just recovering from his week 3 knee injury that kept him out week 4.

 

An alternative view point would be maybe playing Poyer like a WLB will extend his playing window, because otherwise maybe as he meshes in more (I know LA fans would throw up in their mouths at the notion) Rapp might be playing better at safety?

 

I didn’t think Poyer had particular problems game 2 and 3 (before injury).  I thought he struggled some when he came back, ‘playing himself healthy’ was my take.  But he’s definitely lost some speed and range, so maybe putting him closer to the LOS and letting him thump is more helpful than wicked?

 

I agree that Bernard has fit in surprisingly well.  I thought Williams has shown flashes, but obviously the coaches decided he needs to go “back in the pot” to cook some more.

 

I just hope Benford’s hammy is nothing serious, and I hope Douglas comes on board quickly because frankly, I don’t seen Benford and Jackson as quite “good enough”.  Guess we’ll find out tomorrow……

 

 

Is that why there were “plumber’s candles” on your Cupcakes? 😘

 

Didn't Poyer take a couple bad angles in preseason (I know, who cares) and in the first game or two prior to the injury? Now, characterizing a defender's "bad angle" can also be the result of hesitance, false steps, and/or a lack of footspeed/range (which you explicitly recognize in your post).

 

I recall seeing Hyde being more active in the box and coming downhill at the beginning of the season, and I wonder if that means Poyer was playing the deeper role more often, which would have then really shined a light on his diminished range? Therefore, this recent adjustment to him explicitly lining up on the 2nd level would be a way to reduce the space he has to cover, allowing him to leverage his instincts while mitigating his diminished speed?

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If we lose a close hard fought battle, I can live with that.  It greatly hurts us in the playoff hunt but I can live with the actual game.  If we get blown out again, I am going back into bleak mode.

 

Leslie was quoted as saying he doesn't make a lot of changes because they go with what they practice.  McD's defense is a little more aggressive but mostly the same as far as I can tell. Im no defensive expert though.  I felt like it was doing a better job when we had healthy players but losing White, Milano, and Jones have hurt a lot.

 

Primarily, with Jones and Milano playing at ELITE levels, and White finally returning to previous excellence, this defense was looking GOOD. Secondarily, Oliver was flashing, Bernard was flashing, and Benford was flashing. The Bills were collapsing pockets, disrupting QBs/timing, and taking the ball away. Frazier's defenses were never so assertive even when they were solid. 

 

Now, with the loss of their most effective/impactful guy at all three levels of the defense, we're seeing a defense that looks more vanilla and more passive. A lot of that perception might just stem from the players being less EFFECTIVE at executing and winning their matchups on a snap-by-snap basis. But I'm sure some of it also stems from the calls being more conservative/predictable. Keep it simple and safe, and let the replacements play fast and all that...

 

(Sorry for the late-night string of posts. 3 in a row is a bad look lol.)

Edited November 5, 2023 by Richard Noggin

[Bimmer323i]

I sure would feel a lot better if Milano White and Jones weren’t hurt but here’s to it…. I hope we smash the living f***outta Bengals… Can’t stand those cocky f***s….

Edited November 5, 2023 by Bimmer323i

[Aimee75]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If we lose a close hard fought battle, I can live with that.  It greatly hurts us in the playoff hunt but I can live with the actual game.  If we get blown out again, I am going back into bleak mode.

 

Leslie was quoted as saying he doesn't make a lot of changes because they go with what they practice.  McD's defense is a little more aggressive but mostly the same as far as I can tell. Im no defensive expert though.  I felt like it was doing a better job when we had healthy players but losing White, Milano, and Jones have hurt a lot.

Same. I am actually sort of dreading this one. It seems like The Bengals have our number, and if we lose, it's our 4th conference loss and we will be in a position where we may have to win out, or lose just one more game, given how tight the AFC is. The Bengals are in a tough spot too, because they are last in their division. It's a must win for both teams, but given how our D can't seem to stop them, and neither could SF's(and imho they have a healthier/stronger D) I just don't feel good about this. Sometimes I hate night games, because you don't have a lot of time to process what happened before going to bed and having to get up early. Ugh. If its close and we lose, at least we will know we can hang with them. If we get murdered, I will again be side eyeing Beane for the weird and uneventful off season we had.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Poyer better have his head on straight.  Just listened to the RG3 podcast and he talks about using that Ayahuasca crap.  No wonder he has lost a step 🤣

[Not at the table Karlos]

14 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

have you heard any more about Suh possibly coming here in the next few weeks? Would still love to add him

Has there been anything about Suh coming here? I’ve seen people bring up he would be a good addition but nothing saying he’s coming here. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

14 hours ago, Caesar said:

 

Great points.  I can share that Bengals and KC fans go back and forth with the, "If Pat had Chase, Higgins, Boyd...", and we reply if, "Joe went to a playoff team out of college, a solid org with money, HOF TE Kelce, Tyreek Hill, and Andy Reid...."

But there is no retort when it comes to Josh, he hasnt had a bevy of weapons, Daboll was really solid but no Andy Reid & the current OC is a still a question mark.  The Bills are a better overall org than Cincy, but Josh came from a community college and Wyoming whereas Joe learned at Ohio State and LSU.  

When it comes to opportunities given, Josh has risen so much higher with less than almost every QB.  

 

Well said!

 

I don't understand the the animosity some on here have shown you. The only criticism I have of you is your whimpy avatar!