Rumors swirling that Elam will be a scratch tonight for Norman. Trade coming?

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

 

Um, yeah, it's very true that we don't really know where guys were for sure or where they would have been drafted.

 

But there's no particular reason to think Elam would have fallen far.

 

He was #29 on PFF's big board.

 

TheAthletic do a consensus Big Board each year combining the Big Boards of 82 top evaluators, which generally does better than nearly all individual experts.

 

https://theathletic.com/3262402/2022/04/26/nfl-draft-consensus-big-board/

 

Elam was listed 30th.

 

This doesn't prove he wouldn't have made it into the 3rd round. It does make it as likely as it could be that he would not have.

 

I’m not saying he was likely to be drafted in the 3rd round. I’m saying it’s not that far fetched that he could have been.  It’s also not far fetched that it was a reach trading up for him and drafting him @ 23.  I hated it at the time.   I hate it even more now.  I haven’t given up on him yet, but Josh freakin Norman got the nod over him.  
 

Everyone evaluates differently.  A reach to one evaluator might not be a reach to another.  Again, it’s all subjective.   Elam sure looks like a reach @ 23 to me. 
 

 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not saying he was likely to be drafted in the 3rd round. I’m saying it’s not that far fetched that he could have been.  It’s also not far fetched that it was a reach trading up for him and drafting him @ 23.  I hated it at the time.   I hate it even more now.  I haven’t given up on him yet, but Josh freakin Norman got the nod over him.  
 

Everyone evaluates differently.  A reach to one evaluator might not be a reach to another.  Again, it’s all subjective.   Elam sure looks like a reach @ 23 to me. 
 

 

 

 

Five more CBs were picked after Elam in the 2nd round.  I think logically it is far fetched to say he would have been drafted in the 3rd round.

 

They drafted a physically gifted man corner because they thought they needed more speed and some versatility at the position.   Its becoming increasingly clear he has trouble playing zone and can't keep his hands off of the wideout.

 

You win some you lose some.   Its a marathon not a sprint.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Five more CBs were picked after Elam in the 2nd round.  I think logically it is far fetched to say he would have been drafted in the 3rd round.

 

They drafted a physically gifted man corner because they thought they needed more speed and some versatility at the position.   Its becoming increasingly clear he has trouble playing zone and can't keep his hands off of the wideout.

 

You win some you lose some.   Its a marathon not a sprint.

You’re certainly entitled to feel that way.  He was more bad than good in his last season in college.  Josh Norman is better than him according to our staff.  
 

Some people had first rd grades on:

Jalin Hyatt- 3rd

Kelee Ringo- 4th 

Dawand Jones- 4th

 

Some had Drew Sanders and Trenton Simpson going rd 1, high rd 2. They went rd 3.  It happens every year.  And it’s not as if Elam was a consensus 1st rd talent.  He was not. 
 

Agree to disagree that slipping to rd 3 is farfetched.  I don’t think it’s likely that he fell to rd 3.  I also don’t think it was likely that Elam would’ve been taken in the first round if we didn’t take him.
 

again- it’s subjective.  How do you feel about a player.  I didn’t think Elam was very good.  We’re about to find out how other teams think of him now.  Trade deadline in a few days.  There should be some teams that loved him as a 1st or 2nd rd prospect willing to give up a pick for him.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jkeerie]

Just now, NewEra said:

You’re certainly entitled to feel that way.  He was more bad than good in his last season in college.  Josh Norman is better than him according to our staff.  
 

Some people had first rd grades on:

Jalin Hyatt- 3rd

Kelee Ringo- 4th 

Dawand Jones- 4th

 

Some had Drew Sanders and Trenton Simpson going rd 1, high rd 2. They went rd 3.  It happens every year.  And it’s not as if Elam was a consensus 1st rd talent.  He was not. 
 

Agree to disagree that slipping to rd 3 is farfetched.  I don’t think it’s likely that he fell to rd 3.  I also don’t think it was likely that Elam would’ve been taken in the first round if we didn’t take him.
 

again- it’s subjective.  How do you feel about a player.  I didn’t think Elam was very good.  We’re about to find out how other teams think of him now.  Trade deadline in a few days.  There should be some teams that loved him as a 1st or 2nd rd prospect willing to give up a pick for him.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Josh Norman was elevated more for special teams purposes and he made some good plays there.  Elam's lack of ST play hurts him in terms of value to the team in light of Jackson and Benson being a better fit for our defense.  Elam was listed as a top 5 corner in that draft.  Unfortunately, he seems to fit better in a man system versus zone.

[SCBills]

There’s no way the Bills are rolling with Jackson, Benford and 35 year old Josh Norman past the deadline.  I refuse to believe that.  
 

Reading the tea leaves, we likely have a move in place for a CB coming in, with Elam going out either to recoup a pick and/or as part of the deal.  
 

Poona Ford gave reason to believe he can hold down 1T at a respectable level after finally getting his sea legs under him in this defense.  
 

The emergence of Kincaid, along with Gabe Davis looking like a true WR2 and Khalil Shakir looking like he can truly become an effective Slot may diminish the feeling we need another receiving weapon.   Not saying I’m 100% confident in Gabe and Shakir… but they showed it’s in them… and a lot of it is probably usage via Dorsey and Allen trusting them.  Reason for optimism there.  
 

Linebacker could definitely be upgraded if they feel Williams won’t be ready this year, but Poyer coming down to play Dime LB looked pretty effective.  
 

I won’t rule anything out, but we saw potential answers last night to the Daquan & Milano injuries.   I refuse to believe Norman is an answer though … I believe it was a one week bandaid to get to the trade deadline. 
 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by SCBills

[Dick_Cheney]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

There’s no way the Bills are rolling with Jackson, Benford and 35 year old Josh Norman past the deadline.  I refuse to believe that.  
 

Reading the tea leaves, we likely have a move in place for a CB coming in, with Elam going out either to recoup a pick and/or as part of the deal.  
 

Poona Ford gave reason to believe he can hold down 1T at a respectable level after finally getting his sea legs under him in this defense.  
 

The emergence of Kincaid, along with Gabe Davis looking like a true WR2 and Khalil Shakir looking like he can truly become an effective Slot may diminish the feeling we need another receiving weapon.   Not saying I’m 100% confident in Gabe and Shakir… but they showed it’s in them… and a lot of it is probably usage via Dorsey and Allen trusting them.  Reason for optimism there.  
 

Linebacker could definitely be upgraded if they feel Williams won’t be ready this year, but Poyer coming down to play Dime LB looked pretty effective.  
 

I won’t rule anything out, but we saw potential answers last night to the Tre, Daquan, Milano injuries.   I refuse to believe Norman is an answer though … I believe it was a one week bandaid to get to the trade deadline. 
 

 

I pretty much totally agree with you. If we don't end up trading for a CB, then I don't have high expectations for the rest of the season, let alone the playoffs. Not sure if I'd have much of any positive expectations at all. We are extremely exposed on defense right now and maybe if all the guys in the middle hadn't gone down we'd be able to get away with it, but here we are.

 

If we can upgrade CB and then Milano and Jones come back in time for playoffs or possibly even sooner, then I'll be excited. In the meantime I'm expecting nail biting games that could very possibly be decided by the decision making of McD in critical moments. I'd much prefer the players be talented enough to avoid us getting in those situations as often as it seems we are.

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I think Josh Norman was elevated more for special teams purposes and he made some good plays there.  Elam's lack of ST play hurts him in terms of value to the team in light of Jackson and Benson being a better fit for our defense.  Elam was listed as a top 5 corner in that draft.  Unfortunately, he seems to fit better in a man system versus zone.

He was a top 5 corner according to the many.  Some others didn’t have him top 5.  I think most had him pegged as a high-mid 2nd rd pick.  
 

I saw the 22 CB draft class like this:  2 top tier prospects in sauce and Stingley. McDuffie being the next best guy but was he good enough to play outside. Gordon and Mccreary limited in size/length.  Elam and booth physically gifted- one with injury concerns, the other just not very good his last year in college.  Martin Emerson and woolen-  both with elite height, weight, length, hand size.  Woolen with the elite speed while emerson with better skills. 

Other than the top 2-  I wouldn’t have been surprised if any lf other guys would’ve been taken over the others.  I thought McDuffie had the makings of an elite slot guy and I figured he’d be next off the board, but after that, they were a toss up.  
 

i would’ve failed and taken Booth, Gordon, Emerson and Woolen over Elam.  I didn’t like Elams tape.  I only liked his press ability, height and speed.  He has small hands and borderline short arms.  

[TFBillsfan]

I’m all in for trading for an impactful CB. I love Tre but I doubt he’s back next year so you might as well get a proven player now if available for the back half of the season which is loaded with strong offenses. 
 

 

[Einstein]

“We went with players that we thought would help us win.” -Sean McDermott on playing Josh Norman and having Kaiir Elam inactive

Says it all.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

He was a top 5 corner according to the many.  Some others didn’t have him top 5.  I think most had him pegged as a high-mid 2nd rd pick.  
 

I saw the 22 CB draft class like this:  2 top tier prospects in sauce and Stingley. McDuffie being the next best guy but was he good enough to play outside. Gordon and Mccreary limited in size/length.  Elam and booth physically gifted- one with injury concerns, the other just not very good his last year in college.  Martin Emerson and woolen-  both with elite height, weight, length, hand size.  Woolen with the elite speed while emerson with better skills. 

Other than the top 2-  I wouldn’t have been surprised if any lf other guys would’ve been taken over the others.  I thought McDuffie had the makings of an elite slot guy and I figured he’d be next off the board, but after that, they were a toss up.  
 

i would’ve failed and taken Booth, Gordon, Emerson and Woolen over Elam.  I didn’t like Elams tape.  I only liked his press ability, height and speed.  He has small hands and borderline short arms.  

I actually liked Woolen.  He's playing well in Seattle.

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’m not saying he was likely to be drafted in the 3rd round. I’m saying it’s not that far fetched that he could have been.  It’s also not far fetched that it was a reach trading up for him and drafting him @ 23.  I hated it at the time.   I hate it even more now.  I haven’t given up on him yet, but Josh freakin Norman got the nod over him.  
 

Everyone evaluates differently.  A reach to one evaluator might not be a reach to another.  Again, it’s all subjective.   Elam sure looks like a reach @ 23 to me. 
 

 

 

 

I remember feeling like it was a panic trade up pick. And I hated that it felt like beane was panicking and was caught off guard. 

 

And unfairly to Elam it hurts so much more that breece hall went right after and we have to watch him look awesome in the division.

[somnus00]

On 10/26/2023 at 11:07 AM, MikePJ76 said:

Dallas swapped 2nd round cb bust kelvin joseph to miami for their 1st round cb bust Noah Igbinoghene.

 

I imagine that is the type of deal that can happen if they were to trade elam at some point.

Fingers crossed for another successful Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes kind of trade.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I remember feeling like it was a panic trade up pick. And I hated that it felt like beane was panicking and was caught off guard. 

 

And unfairly to Elam it hurts so much more that breece hall went right after and we have to watch him look awesome in the division.

Breece doesn’t upset me. Jermaine Johnson, Tyler Smith and Linderbaum do.  As do Pickens and Watson.  I’m good with James cook

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Five more CBs were picked after Elam in the 2nd round.  I think logically it is far fetched to say he would have been drafted in the 3rd round.

 

They drafted a physically gifted man corner because they thought they needed more speed and some versatility at the position.   Its becoming increasingly clear he has trouble playing zone and can't keep his hands off of the wideout.

 

You win some you lose some.   Its a marathon not a sprint.

I don't think I can square physically gifted first round man corner w can't keep his hands off of the wideout

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Breece doesn’t upset me. Jermaine Johnson, Tyler Smith and Linderbaum do.  As do Pickens and Watson.  I’m good with James cook

Pickens is the one

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

“We went with players that we thought would help us win.” -Sean McDermott on playing Josh Norman and having Kaiir Elam inactive

Says it all.

He gone 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't think I can square physically gifted first round man corner w can't keep his hands off of the wideout

Pickens is the one

Yeah he’d be great for sure.  But there were several good options and we took the worst one.  A guy that looks like he’s not even worthy of a 4th rd pick. 

 

I’d really like to know who was banging the table the hardest for Elam.

[BearNorth]

The cornerback market among teams near/out of playoff contention is pretty thin as you can imagine.

 

Here is a list of CB's from the bottom 6 teams with PFF scores above Dane.

 

Jaylon Johnson                CHI

Ja'Quan McMillian            DEN

Terell Smith                       CHI

Pat Surtain II                     DEN

Greg Stroman Jr.              CHI

Troy Hill                             CAR

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by BearNorth

[Warriorspikes51]

You’ve got to tip your cap to Josh Norman. Guy comes off his couch and makes a huge hit on Special Teams to start the game.  That got us going

[CNYfan]

57 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I remember feeling like it was a panic trade up pick. And I hated that it felt like beane was panicking and was caught off guard. 

 

And unfairly to Elam it hurts so much more that breece hall went right after and we have to watch him look awesome in the division.

Things went bad when Booth's medical issue came to light in the final days leading up to that draft as Booth had played as a perfect fit.   Great zone awareness and active, willing tackler.  Booth's game was miles ahead of KE, but then the word was out that Booth was not viable due to his medicals, and it became a scramble. 

My favorites, and I am no expert at all, were McDuffie and Kyler Gordon.  I know McDuffie is doing well but haven't followed K. Gordon with the Bears.   They went with Elam and the final chapters have not been written.     

Edited October 27, 2023 by CNYfan
missing phrase

[pennstate10]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

You’re certainly entitled to feel that way.  He was more bad than good in his last season in college.  Josh Norman is better than him according to our staff.  
 

Some people had first rd grades on:

Jalin Hyatt- 3rd

Kelee Ringo- 4th 

Dawand Jones- 4th

 

Some had Drew Sanders and Trenton Simpson going rd 1, high rd 2. They went rd 3.  It happens every year.  And it’s not as if Elam was a consensus 1st rd talent.  He was not. 
 

Agree to disagree that slipping to rd 3 is farfetched.  I don’t think it’s likely that he fell to rd 3.  I also don’t think it was likely that Elam would’ve been taken in the first round if we didn’t take him.
 

again- it’s subjective.  How do you feel about a player.  I didn’t think Elam was very good.  We’re about to find out how other teams think of him now.  Trade deadline in a few days.  There should be some teams that loved him as a 1st or 2nd rd prospect willing to give up a pick for him.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, per the Athletic, Elam was a consensus first round pick.