OLINE PASS PRO/ QB UNFORCED ERROR ALL 22 REVIEW - WEEK 7 PATRIOTS

[Bocephuz]

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 2

TORRENCE - 3

BROWN - 1

 

 

-DAWKINS - Not a great game by Dawkins. Gave up 2 pressures and had a false start

- MCGOVERN - #66 rallied from a poor game last week to have a clean sheet against NE. 

- MORSE - 2nd week in a row where Morse has struggled a bit. He was cleanly beaten twice giving up pressures.  

- TORRENCE - Rough day for the rook.. he looked flat footed all day. #90 way too quick for him. 

- BROWN  - Hats of to #79. He was one of the best linemen today in pass pro. Only beaten once by my eye

 

- DORSEY -  Dorsey had TEs and RBs in on a regular basis to chip in against the rush with mixed results.  Cook had another rough day in picking up biltzers.. but Murray was solid. He even had Shakir stay in for a few pass block reps. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  Belichick employed much the same methods as the Giants in attacking the Bills pass pro. Lots of delayed blitzes from corners , lbs and safeties. Not a whole lot the O line can do in these situations where they don't have numbers.  For the most part Josh escaped these free man blitzes but he had mixed results improvising on these escapes. Where the oline really suffered was up the middle. Morse and Torrence did not do well with their matchups and Allen suffered for it. In particular.. if Torrence holds his block for a half beat I have no doubt Josh hits Diggs on the go route in q3. Instead Torrence barely gets a hand on #92 and his rush up the middle disrupts Allens throw just enough for incompletion. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 6 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - UE1 - INT - good protection.. bad choice by Allen 

 

q1 - Brown beaten to the outside by speed rush.. Allen flushed .. nice throw to Cook on scramble drill 

 

q1 -Shakir stays in to pass pro.. does nice job

 

q1 -Good blitz beater quick throw to Cook in flat

 

q1 -UE2 - Delayed blitz.. Allen has Shakir for quick hitter blitz beater but unnecessarily bails out of the pocket resulting in incompletion

 

q2 -UE3 - Allen has time.. has open Knox but decides to bail from clean pocket ( instead of climbing the pocket) and incomplete pass to Davis in end zone. Knox clearly pissed after the play 

 

q2 -Torrence beaten outside by #90 flushes Josh.. inc to Diggs

 

q2 - Cook poor blitz pickup .. Morse beaten by #92. Josh throws away 

 

q2 - SACK - Torrence whiffs on #90 ..blitz gets home as well. 

 

q2: UE4 - Josh has time.. stays on 1st read too long .. never works through progressions .. and then throws it away

 

q3 - Morse does nice job picking up twist stunt

 

q3 - Dawkins whiffs on LB delayed blitz... flushes Allen .. incomplete

 

q3 - Miss on Diggs deep - Torrence loses his block on #92 and #92 alters Allen deep throw at last minute causing off target throw. 

 

q3 -False start Dawkins

 

q4 - UE5 - Josh has time.. takes unnecessary extra hitch in clean pocket and throws behind Diggs incomplete

 

q4- Cook falls down trying to get to delayed blitz pickup.. Allen flushed incomplete to Diggs

 

q4 -  UE6- Allen throws behind open Diggs in the seam

 

 

SUMMARY  -  The O line was not great.. however..this one falls mostly on the QB unforced errors by #17. Allen has been showing several disturbing tendencies the last few games.

• #1- Bailing out of the pocket instead of climbing the pocket. There were several instances where Allen had room to climb the pocket to avoid pressure. .instead he bailed out wide. Mac Jones actually hung tougher and made a few throws climbing the pocket. Allen needs to get back to climbing the pocket and delivering.. even if he needs to take a hit to get the job done
• #2 - Staying on 1st read too long. Allen has not been consistently going through his progressions quick enough. There were several instances where he had open targets that were secondary reads.. which he either didn't see.. or decided not to check down to.

 

Cook is struggling in picking up blocks.. which is a shame.. because he did so well earlier in the year. There were also a couple of plays where Dorsey didn't really give Josh a good outlet.. all deep developing routes where Josh hits his drop and noone coming out of their breaks yet.  

 

All in all it wasn't as bad as it looked live on TV. I'm really hoping Spencer Brown can build off this performance. I'm also hoping Torrence can rally after a few poor games. I don't like Ocyrus having to give the hand signal for snaps on the road. I think it distracts him from his technique. Hopefully being at home with a quiet crowd on offense will help him get back to form.  If #17 can start climbing the pocket and do a better job of going through his progressions things should get better against the Bucs. I sure hope so because I'm driving up to Maryland to watch the game Thursday. 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Bocephuz

[MJS]

Better watch out. If you state the fact that Josh Allen didn't play well, you'll get a lot of people attacking you, even if it is true.

 

Nice analysis. I always enjoy these.

Edited October 24, 2023 by MJS

[Success]

I'm surprised at the overall conclusion.  Just "eye test" from the game, it felt like Allen was harried all day. The NE pass rush looked like world beaters that game.

 

But I'm seeing more observations that Allen was just missing good opportunities, and not going through his progressions very well.  I did notice that he doesn't step up in the pocket anymore.

 

It's concerning.  I've been pushing back on the idea that he's regressing, but it we see another game or 2 like this in the weeks ahead....

 

[Bocephuz]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

I'm surprised at the overall conclusion.  Just "eye test" from the game, it felt like Allen was harried all day. The NE pass rush looked like world beaters that game.

 

But I'm seeing more observations that Allen was just missing good opportunities, and not going through his progressions very well.  I did notice that he doesn't step up in the pocket anymore.

 

It's concerning.  I've been pushing back on the idea that he's regressing, but it we see another game or 2 like this in the weeks ahead....

 

it is tough to see if he has opportunities to climb the pocket on the live broadcasts sideline view.. but coaches endzone view uncovers those  missed opportunities 

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

I'm surprised at the overall conclusion.  Just "eye test" from the game, it felt like Allen was harried all day. The NE pass rush looked like world beaters that game.

 

But I'm seeing more observations that Allen was just missing good opportunities, and not going through his progressions very well.  I did notice that he doesn't step up in the pocket anymore.

 

It's concerning.  I've been pushing back on the idea that he's regressing, but it we see another game or 2 like this in the weeks ahead....

It's less regression and more that defenses have adjusted and playing him better. Defenses are better around the league, actually.

 

It is up to Josh to evolve, now. He has to get better at some of the QB mental aspects of the game because relying on his physical abilities, like he traditionally does, is not always getting the job done.

 

But he has actually played well this year outside of the Pats and Jets games. Against the Giants I think it was more him getting let down by his teammates. That was definitely the case against the Jags too.

[Bocephuz]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

It's less regression and more that defenses have adjusted and playing him better. Defenses are better around the league, actually.

 

It is up to Josh to evolve, now. He has to get better at some of the QB mental aspects of the game because relying on his physical abilities, like he traditionally does, is not always getting the job done.

 

But he has actually played well this year outside of the Pats and Jets games. Against the Giants I think it was more him getting let down by his teammates. That was definitely the case against the Jags too.

good point. the whole delayed blitz tactic in the last few weeks has really thrown him off. in the past he would have just taken off running to make the d pay for that kind of blitzing.. but they are clearly asking him to dial that back. 

 

The delayed blitzes seem to come more when he has an empty backfield. Perhaps keeping a rb in .. or going more pistol would help?  
 

Its on Dorsey to help scheme against that tactic. But its also on Josh not to miss the opportunities that he is presented with.
 

 

 

 

[Bocephuz]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Better watch out. If you state the fact that Josh Allen didn't play well, you'll get a lot of people attacking you, even if it is true.

 

Nice analysis. I always enjoy these.

Hah.. thanks for the warning. .and the compliment.

 

The tape don't lie.. 

[MJS]

30 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

Hah.. thanks for the warning. .and the compliment.

 

The tape don't lie.. 

A lot of people want to put it all on coaching. Heck, maybe they are right. It is way easier to evaluate players and their execution, though. It is way more difficult to evaluate coaches, at least for me. All I know is what the players are and aren't doing on the field.

[Bocephuz]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

A lot of people want to put it all on coaching. Heck, maybe they are right. It is way easier to evaluate players and their execution, though. It is way more difficult to evaluate coaches, at least for me. All I know is what the players are and aren't doing on the field.

well said

[BillsfaninCT]

the plays are there to be made but the coaching isn't EFFECTING JOSH'S DECISIONS.  nobody demonstrating Josh "can't see them open" but constantly show him choosing a harder play.  Not a lot of reasons for picking a low percentage play over a high percentage play on early downs, but he needs to be effected in such a way that he can do both, learn when to do which, and also be happy........ good freaking luck.  the mental part of the game is harder for physically gifted people because you can just blast your way through a lot of stuff.... like a once in a lifetime arm...

 

the reason I endlessly say fire dorsey on Fina's show and Over reaction is because the coaches aren't effective.  he's a generational talent but do these coaches have the mental skillset required to rewire Josh Allen without also ruining him?

 

I hope he's in therapy.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BillsfaninCT

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

Cook is struggling in picking up blocks.. which is a shame.. because he did so well earlier in the year.

 

I'm curious what his metrics are in this way.  

 

Cook's not the prototypical blocking back to be polite.  It was a weakness of his coming into the NFL and it seems as if Dorsey needs to find another solution.  

 

Goes with not being a 3-down RB I suppose.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

Do not agree w your interpretation of UE#3

 

yes Knox comes open but Allen is reading L modified Bow concept w Diggs option underneath and Davis on the deeper basic

 

by the time Allen around Brown to R side of field it's scramble drill and I think Knox is mad at himself for not coming back to QB and drifting into Davis

 

I think the error here is likely not hitting Kincaid immediately after you break contain, but this is splitting hairs here calling it an unforced error instead of just a normal play imo

[Bocephuz]

1 hour ago, BillsfaninCT said:

the plays are there to be made but the coaching isn't EFFECTING JOSH'S DECISIONS.  nobody demonstrating Josh "can't see them open" but constantly show him choosing a harder play.  Not a lot of reasons for picking a low percentage play over a high percentage play on early downs, but he needs to be effected in such a way that he can do both, learn when to do which, and also be happy........ good freaking luck.  the mental part of the game is harder for physically gifted people because you can just blast your way through a lot of stuff.... like a once in a lifetime arm...

 

the reason I endlessly say fire dorsey on Fina's show and Over reaction is because the coaches aren't effective.  he's a generational talent but do these coaches have the mental skillset required to rewire Josh Allen without also ruining him?

 

I hope he's in therapy.

there's few things more difficult in sports. silver lining is that we know Josh had the balance figured out in the past.. its in there somewhere. 

44 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm curious what his metrics are in this way.  

 

Cook's not the prototypical blocking back to be polite.  It was a weakness of his coming into the NFL and it seems as if Dorsey needs to find another solution.  

 

Goes with not being a 3-down RB I suppose.  

 

 

he is on the small side... that being said.. he was excellent the first few games in pass pro picking up blitzes.. not sure why he's regressing. 

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Better watch out. If you state the fact that Josh Allen didn't play well, you'll get a lot of people attacking you, even if it is true.

 

Nice analysis. I always enjoy these.

 

That Pats loss was really difficult as both sides of the ball floundered but also both sides of the ball screwed up the other side of the ball chances and the Special Teams did not do anyone any favors either.

 

The offense flounders all game only having scored 10 points which puts them down 12 with 7 minutes 36 seconds left. The offense scores in about 2 minutes to get the game back to within one score with 5 minutes 30ish seconds left. The defense in the only time this team played "complementary football" actually came up with a big turnover to give the offense a short field with about 5 minutes left in the game. The offense not only cashes in the turnover for a TD but gets the two-point conversion to give the defense a 3 point lead which at least gives them a margin for error as a field goal only ties the game. 

 

The defense then proceeds to give up a long TD drive with less than 2 minutes left in the game. Just one of those frustrating losses. Really should have been able to put up more points in the first half and even in the second half they didn't get it in gear offensively until 7.5 minutes left in the game. The defense which was decent but not very good most of the game should have been able to close out the game or at least force a field goal on the final drives lets up a TD for the loss. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by billsfan89

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

#1- Bailing out of the pocket instead of climbing the pocket. There were several instances where Allen had room to climb the pocket to avoid pressure. .instead he bailed out wide. Mac Jones actually hung tougher and made a few throws climbing the pocket. Allen needs to get back to climbing the pocket and delivering.. even if he needs to take a hit to get the job done

 

I question this conclusion.  My sense watching the game was that Allen was put under much more serious pressure on a lot more plays then Jones saw.  Jones was able to "climb the pocket" largely because there was an intact pocket to climb.  Some of Allen's worst pressure came up the gut leaving little room to climb the pocket.

 

I think NE's pass rush was far more effective then the Bills so I'm wondering how you can compare the reactions of the two QB's.

 

 

 

[Bocephuz]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

I question this conclusion.  My sense watching the game was that Allen was put under much more serious pressure on a lot more plays then Jones saw.  Jones was able to "climb the pocket" largely because there was an intact pocket to climb.  Some of Allen's worst pressure came up the gut leaving little room to climb the pocket.

 

I think NE's pass rush was far more effective then the Bills so I'm wondering how you can compare the reactions of the two QB's.

 

 

 

There were some plays where Morse and Torrance failed.. and there was no pocket to climb. However.. I listed several specific plays where Allen had a chance to climb the pocket in my significant plays listing.  From the All 22 and end zone view it is relatively easy to see 

Just now, Bocephuz said:

There were some plays where Morse and Torrance failed.. and there was no pocket to climb. However.. I listed several specific plays where Allen had a chance to climb the pocket in my significant plays listing.  From the All 22 and end zone view it is relatively easy to see 

 

q1 -UE2 - Delayed blitz.. Allen has Shakir for quick hitter blitz beater but unnecessarily bails out of the pocket resulting in incompletion

 

q2 -UE3 - Allen has time.. has open Knox but decides to bail from clean pocket ( instead of climbing the pocket) and incomplete pass to Davis in end zone. Knox clearly pissed after the play 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Bocephuz said:

There were some plays where Morse and Torrance failed.. and there was no pocket to climb. However.. I listed several specific plays where Allen had a chance to climb the pocket in my significant plays listing.  From the All 22 and end zone view it is relatively easy to see 

 

It's easy to see on the broadcast view as well.  

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I question this conclusion.  My sense watching the game was that Allen was put under much more serious pressure on a lot more plays then Jones saw.  Jones was able to "climb the pocket" largely because there was an intact pocket to climb.  Some of Allen's worst pressure came up the gut leaving little room to climb the pocket.

 

I think NE's pass rush was far more effective then the Bills so I'm wondering how you can compare the reactions of the two QB's.

 

 

 

The all22 shows a couple good pockets that he could have stepped into but it wasn't a glaring issue

 

What I see is two things consistently this game- first is Brown's man can usually take him wherever he wants in the backfield and disengage very quickly to stop those easy rollouts/escapes and 2- Knox is possibly worse at blocking (esp in the run game) than he is at catching passes which is impressive

 

 

[balln]

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I question this conclusion.  My sense watching the game was that Allen was put under much more serious pressure on a lot more plays then Jones saw.  Jones was able to "climb the pocket" largely because there was an intact pocket to climb.  Some of Allen's worst pressure came up the gut leaving little room to climb the pocket.

 

I think NE's pass rush was far more effective then the Bills so I'm wondering how you can compare the reactions of the two QB's.

 

 

 

Of course you question anything where Joshy isn’t perfect

[CincyBillsFan]

Another point about pressure and it's effect that is hard to quantify but I suspect is very important is the impact of repeated QB pressures on those moments when there isn't much pressure on the QB.  According to the stats I've seen Allen was pressured on 41% of his drop backs which is very high. This will have a cumulative impact on how a QB reacts on pass plays when the rush isn't as effective and he has time. 

 

Over the years I've seen many elite QB's get "rattled" a bit by continuous pressure and not make the best decisions or throws when their pass protection did hold up. After a DT breaks free up the gut and is in your face you become less willing to move up in the pocket because you no longer trust that the pocket will hold up. And when you're being harassed form one side with almost immediate pressure you might jump out of the pocket on plays where the pressure isn't immediate.

 

I think one of the keys to Allen's amazing ability to avoid sacks is that he anticipates the pass rush very well.  But this will also mean he will be wrong sometimes and his anticipation will betray him and he'll bail to soon from the pocket.  But against NE there are a lot of NFL QB's who would have been sacked at least 4 or 5 more times then Allen did.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the price you pay when your QB is under constant pressure is that they'll bail from the pocket to soon or throw the ball into the ground on pays where they did have time & opportunity to move up in the pocket. Not sure ho you would quantitate this factor but it's real.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

There were some plays where Morse and Torrance failed.. and there was no pocket to climb. However.. I listed several specific plays where Allen had a chance to climb the pocket in my significant plays listing.  From the All 22 and end zone view it is relatively easy to see 

 

q1 -UE2 - Delayed blitz.. Allen has Shakir for quick hitter blitz beater but unnecessarily bails out of the pocket resulting in incompletion

 

q2 -UE3 - Allen has time.. has open Knox but decides to bail from clean pocket ( instead of climbing the pocket) and incomplete pass to Davis in end zone. Knox clearly pissed after the play 

 

 

I address this in my post above.

[oldmanfan]

Orlovsky has pointed out teams know the Bills are very weak on reacting to the blitz, can’t get things blocked or get the ball out quickly.   Teams will keep doing it till the Bills prove they can beat it.

Edited October 24, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Bocephuz]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Another point about pressure and it's effect that is hard to quantify but I suspect is very important is the impact of repeated QB pressures on those moments when there isn't much pressure on the QB.  According to the stats I've seen Allen was pressured on 41% of his drop backs which is very high. This will have a cumulative impact on how a QB reacts on pass plays when the rush isn't as effective and he has time. 

 

Over the years I've seen many elite QB's get "rattled" a bit by continuous pressure and not make the best decisions or throws when their pass protection did hold up. After a DT breaks free up the gut and is in your face you become less willing to move up in the pocket because you no longer trust that the pocket will hold up. And when you're being harassed form one side with almost immediate pressure you might jump out of the pocket on plays where the pressure isn't immediate.

 

I think one of the keys to Allen's amazing ability to avoid sacks is that he anticipates the pass rush very well.  But this will also mean he will be wrong sometimes and his anticipation will betray him and he'll bail to soon from the pocket.  But against NE there are a lot of NFL QB's who would have been sacked at least 4 or 5 more times then Allen did.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the price you pay when your QB is under constant pressure is that they'll bail from the pocket to soon or throw the ball into the ground on pays where they did have time & opportunity to move up in the pocket. Not sure ho you would quantitate this factor but it's real.

 

 

I address this in my post above.

this is a good point.. hate to admit it .. but sometimes Allen "sees ghosts" a al Zach Wilson.  the cumulative effect of bad pass pro from earlier in a game..or .. previous games does creep in 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, balln said:

Of course you question anything where Joshy isn’t perfect

It beats jumping all over Allen every time the Bills lose and he doesn't have a HOF game. I would expect that sort of stuff about Allen on a Jet's or Dolphins message board.  But it takes someone who is clinically depressed to do it repeatedly on a Bills message board. But hey we all have an opinion and you're entitled to yours.

 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It beats jumping all over Allen every time the Bills lose and he doesn't have a HOF game. I would expect that sort of stuff about Allen on a Jet's or Dolphins message board.  But it takes someone who is clinically depressed to do it repeatedly on a Bills message board. But hey we all have an opinion and you're entitled to yours.

 

I’m hard on him when he looks bad yes

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

this is a good point.. hate to admit it .. but sometimes Allen "sees ghosts" a al Zach Wilson.  the cumulative effect of bad pass pro from earlier in a game..or .. previous games does creep in 

I didn't want to use the word "ghosts" because of the famous Darnold comment but you're right and that is exactly what it is. In fact I've seen it a lot even with the best QB's.  Go back and watch Mahomes in the TB Super Bowl.  There are times he bails from the pocket when he doesn't have to but he was under a lot of pressure.  And I use Mahomes here as I have immense respect for him. 

 

 

[PBF81]

52 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

there's few things more difficult in sports. silver lining is that we know Josh had the balance figured out in the past.. its in there somewhere. 

he is on the small side... that being said.. he was excellent the first few games in pass pro picking up blitzes.. not sure why he's regressing. 

 

Size & types of players rushing?  

 

i.e., DBs rather than LBs maybe.  I haven't spent any time looking whatsoever other than superficially.  

 

 

[Mango]

I always look forward to these. Thank you!

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, balln said:

I’m hard on him when he looks bad yes

But he didn't play bad in the NE game.  In fact he played good if you go by QBR & the regular QB rating.  He was average in the 1st half and he was excellent in the 2nd half.  He got the Bills the lead with under 2 minutes left.  That's not playing "bad" by a long shot.

 

The problem with some of you people is that you equate Allen not playing at an all pro level as playing "bad".  That's silly on its face but you do it all the time.  Allen only played "bad" in one game this season - against the Jets.  Since that game he has been good to great in every game.  Which is exactly where you want your franchise QB to be. 

 

As Greg Cosell keeps saying if you need your QB to be elite in every game you got a problem and it's not the QB.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[balln]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But he didn't play bad in the NE game.  In fact he played good if you go by QBR & the regular QB rating.  He was average in the 1st half and he was excellent in the 2nd half.  He got the Bills the lead with under 2 minutes left.  That's not playing "bad" by a long shot.

 

The problem with some of you people is that you equate Allen not playing at an all pro level as playing "bad".  That's silly on its face but you do it all the time.  Allen only played "bad" in one game this season - against the Jets.  Since that game he has been good to great in every game.  Which is exactly where you want your franchise QB to be. 

 

As Greg Cosell keeps saying if you need your QB to be elite in every game you got a problem and it's not the QB.

 

 

He played BAD in the first half.

[Bocephuz]

16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I didn't want to use the word "ghosts" because of the famous Darnold comment but you're right and that is exactly what it is. In fact I've seen it a lot even with the best QB's.  Go back and watch Mahomes in the TB Super Bowl.  There are times he bails from the pocket when he doesn't have to but he was under a lot of pressure.  And I use Mahomes here as I have immense respect for him. 

 

 

Happens to the best of them.. especially guys like Mahomes and Allen who are super athletes and thrive when improvising. Comes back to bite em in the ass sometimes tho

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Size & types of players rushing?  

 

i.e., DBs rather than LBs maybe.  I haven't spent any time looking whatsoever other than superficially.  

 

 

It seems to be delayed blitzes I've seen have typically been LBs or DBs.... and they either come from the outside edge... or they hide behind the Dline and then sneak in through the A or B gap 

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

I always look forward to these. Thank you!

My pleasure.. hopefully they provide some context

[CincyBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, balln said:

He played BAD in the first half.

Again you conflate "bad" with mediocre.  They are two very different things when talking about QB play in the NFL.  And if you had lived through the 18 year playoff drought and seen what "bad" QBing actually looked like you would not say Allen was bad in the 1st half against NE. 

 

Oh and Allen was excellent in the 2nd half.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Again you conflate "bad" with mediocre.  They are two very different things when talking about QB play in the NFL.  And if you had lived through the 18 year playoff drought and seen what "bad" QBing actually looked like you would not say Allen was bad in the 1st half against NE. 

 

Oh and Allen was excellent in the 2nd half.

 

 

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

Allen is far and away leading the league in CPOE

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Allen is far and away leading the league in CPOE

 

That's better than points.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's better than points.

 the Bills are scoring points at third highest rate in the league

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

And you're countering with highly subjective analysis.  Is Marino the last word here? I'll wait to here from a lot more "experts" before taking what Marino said as gospel.

 

Everything you say about Allen in your last paragraph is a gross distortion and exaggeration of what is happening on the field IMO.

 

And for the record I'm not "box score scoring".  I'm looking at the cumulative rankings of QB's after 7 weeks of play.  And I'll trust that sample size of OBJECTIVE measurements over one or two guys looking at the film in a highly subjective way.

 

 

[DapperCam]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically you're box score scoring.

 

There are people who understand how to break down film and your counter is the box score.

 

He's missing open WR, his accuracy has dropped, he's not moving well inside the pocket and we aren't putting up points.

You can be happy with 19 points a game over the last 3, 99% are not.

If you think Josh Allen played bad, I invite you to watch other quarterbacks. Most of them played worse this weekend.

 

Jalen Hurts had a very similar stat line against a trash Dolphins defense that Allen torched. Did Hurts have a very bad game? Nobody is saying that…

[Comebackkid]

I look at like if the coaching staff has influence over Allen and his running then he is listening.   If bad habits are popping up and he is regression the training staff is allowing it to happen.   That's why we have a qb coach and an OC.   To coach to direct, to give insight and to explain how and why and why not.  If Josh is not doing what he should when he should, how he should they need to be in his face.   Don't just allow it happen and then say we don't why this stuff is happening. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Comebackkid

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Nice analysis but we are all focused on the wrong group.  The defense made a group of jags look like world beaters.  Penalties, poor third down performance, horrible tackling, and blown assignments extended drives and gave up scoring opportunities.  I thought Dane Jackson was terrible on screens and in run support.  Ford and Settle frequently got their butts handed to them.  Poyer was slow to react to patterns in his zone coverage.  When they are playing a really bad group of receivers like the Cheatriots, more man to man and pressure at the line of scrimmage combined with blitzing would have been a better approach.  Jones folds and makes big mistakes under pressure.  Miller should have been used more.

[Royale with Cheese]

41 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If you think Josh Allen played bad, I invite you to watch other quarterbacks. Most of them played worse this weekend.

 

Jalen Hurts had a very similar stat line against a trash Dolphins defense that Allen torched. Did Hurts have a very bad game? Nobody is saying that…

Is your argument really that since other QB’s played worse, that means he didn’t?  
 

Is that what we want as a franchise QB?  He wasn’t worse than other QB’s.