Here is how I would fix the offense (Listen up Dorsey)

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

Dude they were second in pts allowed last year (granted with one less game played..but still likely finish there) and first the year before. They've also played a bunch of tomato can offenses outside of Miami so far this year.

 

Seriously asking, do you not see how silly it is to continually blame coordinators when the common denominator is one guy?

 

Frazier sucked.  Defense was more aggressive since McD took over and he shut down Miami.  If you cant see the difference in the defense under McD compared to Frazier, then I don't know what to tell you (in terms of prior to the injuries).  

 

Does any of that give McD a pass on any responsibility?  No...but Frazier was an issue, and we are a better defense without him. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I’ve defended Knox AND Davis longer then anyone here.  
 

He catches balls wide open.  That inflates the numbers.  

 

Dawson has to have surgery on his wrist... might play a part in his game yesterday.

 

And he's caught a TON of difficult passes. 

[BUFFALOTONE]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not a fan of Dorsey or the excuses he gets...but since the odds of him being replaced in season are so low, this is to focus on what he and the offense need to do to turn this thing around.  And with the injuries on Defense, we absolutely need the offense to be better.  This is ALSO assuming no trades, just working with what we have.   

 

Well its not rocket science even though it seems hard for Dorsey to figure out who honestly just feels out of his depth right now from a coaching perspective.  So let me help him out...

 

1. TURN JOSH ALLEN LOOSE! - This whole over correction after the Jets game is just as bad as the Jets game was.  
   1. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to take less hits.  
   2. Josh did NOT need to run less...we needed less called runs off the snap up the middle like a FB into the teeth of the defense.
   3. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to be smarter and not fight for extra meaningless yards once he made the play.
   4. The bottom line is that this was a MAJOR part of the NIGHTMARES that DC's had to defend against because he made you pay and pay bad when you didn't account for it.  Taking this out of his game has made Dorsey vanilla offense even easier to defend and its taken away Superman's cape to a degree.  Josh is more hesitant than I have ever seen him and it's because he is playing in a way to fight his own instincts.  When you have a talent as special as him, you live with the good and the bad because the good SUBSTANTIALLY out weights the bad.  
2. SCRAP THE OVERUSE OF 12 PERSONNEL! - If we are not going to use the 12 personnel to put a ton of pressure on the defense and take advantage of mismatches, then STOP running it so much.  You are not Belichick, you have no clue how to utilize this to our advantage so stop over using it until you figure out how to make defenses pay with it.
3. REDUCE DAVIS SNAP DOMINANCE! - There is absolutely no reason for Davis to have the most snaps on offense (96%), especially when he is producing so little with it.  
   1. Shakir is starting to earn more trust with the coaches and he is making key plays when given chances to do so.  His snap % has gone up every week since week 1 where it started at 10% and was 34% week 7.  HOWEVER...Davis snap counts are NOT going down, that means we are still limiting the other personnel to keep Davis on the field more.
   2. We need more snaps that have BOTH Shakir and Kincaid on the field more.  Let Shakir work the slot short stuff so Kincaid can hit the seem, midfield, etc and put more pressure on the defense.  Right now, Kincaid is seeing too much short underneath stuff and that is not what we drafted him for.  
4. PUT JOSH UNDER CENTER MORE! - Geezus Dorsey, are you the only person who watches football that hasn't seen the significantly higher level of success and production when Josh is under center vs the shotgun????  
5. STOP RUNNING SO MUCH OUT OF SHOTGUN! - As I already said above, this offense is so much better with Allen under center, and the play action has been a major weapon of this offense.  So start lining up under center and running the ball from there too so it only further helps sell the play action even more.  
6. STUDY PHILLY QB SNEAK TUSH PUSH! - How are we not literally doing the same thing with Josh?  Yes we ran some sneaks, but they are not as good as Philly's and we don't do it often enough.  It should be a major weapon in our offense and practically immediate goto play with 1.5 yards to go or less.  
7. MORE QUICK STRIKE READS! - Josh Allen again on Sunday was night and day better on drop backs where the ball came out quickly.  And I know there is more that goes into it than just saying more quick strike reads (guys got to get open, OL needs to do its part, Josh needs to make the right read, etc).  But its pretty easy to tell when that wasn't the type of call, like when Josh makes a deep drop and then you can see the first looks are downfield which take longer to develop.  
8. THROW TO JAMES COOK! - There is no reason or excuse where James Cook shouldn't get at least 5 targets in a game.  Cook should be getting 18+ touches a game between running and receiving.  And despite being drafted to be a receiving weapon, Dorsey just isn't getting him involved enough in that area.

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.  It doesn't take a professional GM or OC to look at the tape and literally see Josh playing like he has some sort of speed restrictor on his gas pedal out there.  Don't get me wrong, taking what the D gives him is something Josh needed to be better about rather than always trying to buy time to find big chunk plays.  However, there has been a gross over correction now, especially in regards to Josh using his legs to make plays.  And honestly, go watch Allen highlights, its those plays where he runs someone over, stiff arms someone, etc etc that you will see Josh the most fired up.  He feeds off those moments and it brings him to another gear few players have.

 

#Alpha4OC 😎🤪😂

This is the take of everyone calling WGR. There are a lot of failures other than Dorsey. But this comes down to the HV wanting to run more 12 personnel for “balance”… this is all McDermott and Dorsey will get canned for it. 

[SoCal Deek]

This is ALL about the design of the offense. The Bills appear to be running a high school level offense. While the suggestions can’t hurt, they’re not going to fix the design and utter lack of complexity.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

You know that scene in the office where Dwight is conducting a speech and keeps banging the podium? That’s how this played out in my head.

 

Good thread!

[Billever76]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

He also led the Bills to 6 points against the Jags, the worst performance of the Allen unleashed era.

With a decimated oline and offense players missing the game

[HoofHearted]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Not a fan of Dorsey or the excuses he gets...but since the odds of him being replaced in season are so low, this is to focus on what he and the offense need to do to turn this thing around.  And with the injuries on Defense, we absolutely need the offense to be better.  This is ALSO assuming no trades, just working with what we have.   

 

Well its not rocket science even though it seems hard for Dorsey to figure out who honestly just feels out of his depth right now from a coaching perspective.  So let me help him out...

 

1. TURN JOSH ALLEN LOOSE! - This whole over correction after the Jets game is just as bad as the Jets game was.  
   1. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to take less hits.  
   2. Josh did NOT need to run less...we needed less called runs off the snap up the middle like a FB into the teeth of the defense.
   3. Josh did NOT need to run less...he needed to be smarter and not fight for extra meaningless yards once he made the play.
   4. The bottom line is that this was a MAJOR part of the NIGHTMARES that DC's had to defend against because he made you pay and pay bad when you didn't account for it.  Taking this out of his game has made Dorsey vanilla offense even easier to defend and its taken away Superman's cape to a degree.  Josh is more hesitant than I have ever seen him and it's because he is playing in a way to fight his own instincts.  When you have a talent as special as him, you live with the good and the bad because the good SUBSTANTIALLY out weights the bad.  
2. SCRAP THE OVERUSE OF 12 PERSONNEL! - If we are not going to use the 12 personnel to put a ton of pressure on the defense and take advantage of mismatches, then STOP running it so much.  You are not Belichick, you have no clue how to utilize this to our advantage so stop over using it until you figure out how to make defenses pay with it.
3. REDUCE DAVIS SNAP DOMINANCE! - There is absolutely no reason for Davis to have the most snaps on offense (96%), especially when he is producing so little with it.  
   1. Shakir is starting to earn more trust with the coaches and he is making key plays when given chances to do so.  His snap % has gone up every week since week 1 where it started at 10% and was 34% week 7.  HOWEVER...Davis snap counts are NOT going down, that means we are still limiting the other personnel to keep Davis on the field more.
   2. We need more snaps that have BOTH Shakir and Kincaid on the field more.  Let Shakir work the slot short stuff so Kincaid can hit the seem, midfield, etc and put more pressure on the defense.  Right now, Kincaid is seeing too much short underneath stuff and that is not what we drafted him for.  
4. PUT JOSH UNDER CENTER MORE! - Geezus Dorsey, are you the only person who watches football that hasn't seen the significantly higher level of success and production when Josh is under center vs the shotgun????  
5. STOP RUNNING SO MUCH OUT OF SHOTGUN! - As I already said above, this offense is so much better with Allen under center, and the play action has been a major weapon of this offense.  So start lining up under center and running the ball from there too so it only further helps sell the play action even more.  
6. STUDY PHILLY QB SNEAK TUSH PUSH! - How are we not literally doing the same thing with Josh?  Yes we ran some sneaks, but they are not as good as Philly's and we don't do it often enough.  It should be a major weapon in our offense and practically immediate goto play with 1.5 yards to go or less.  
7. MORE QUICK STRIKE READS! - Josh Allen again on Sunday was night and day better on drop backs where the ball came out quickly.  And I know there is more that goes into it than just saying more quick strike reads (guys got to get open, OL needs to do its part, Josh needs to make the right read, etc).  But its pretty easy to tell when that wasn't the type of call, like when Josh makes a deep drop and then you can see the first looks are downfield which take longer to develop.  
8. THROW TO JAMES COOK! - There is no reason or excuse where James Cook shouldn't get at least 5 targets in a game.  Cook should be getting 18+ touches a game between running and receiving.  And despite being drafted to be a receiving weapon, Dorsey just isn't getting him involved enough in that area.

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.  It doesn't take a professional GM or OC to look at the tape and literally see Josh playing like he has some sort of speed restrictor on his gas pedal out there.  Don't get me wrong, taking what the D gives him is something Josh needed to be better about rather than always trying to buy time to find big chunk plays.  However, there has been a gross over correction now, especially in regards to Josh using his legs to make plays.  And honestly, go watch Allen highlights, its those plays where he runs someone over, stiff arms someone, etc etc that you will see Josh the most fired up.  He feeds off those moments and it brings him to another gear few players have.

 

#Alpha4OC 😎🤪😂

1. Designed runs are going to be the most effective way to get Josh going in the run game and put stress on a defense. You don't want those though as they are designed to hit between the tackles in most instances. So what you are actually asking for is for Josh to get out of the pocket and scramble more? Have there been times this year where Josh has had the opportunity to tuck it and gain some yards, sure, but I do think this is a big step in his maturation as a QB to learn how to operate within a pocket. Is it a struggle right now, sure, but it will set us up for long-term success later.

 

2. You want to scrap 12 personnel yet it has been the most successful personnel package we've had throwing the ball both with and without play action and it's not even close. You also say we're not taking advantage of mismatches within the personnel group, but you don't have a clue what you're looking for. By being in 12p and sitting in these loaded box formation we are forcing defenses out of their Cover 2 shells and allowing our receivers to do big time damage down the field. Josh on play action out of 12p this season is 23/32 for 397 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 12.42 A/NYPA. So, yes, we are taking major advantages of the mismatches created by 12p - you just don't know enough football to understand what those mismatches are that we're taking advantage of.

 

3. Davis is the best run blocking WR we have on the roster. That's why his snap count is so high. To your point though - there is absolutely reason to get Shakir more involved in the pass game running the option routes from the slot that Cole use to run. With Knox out for an indefinite period of time I'd expect to see more of him in the slot. I'd also like to see Harty get more involved in the pass game. Harty has the physical ability to be a defensive nightmare in the slot with his speed and agility. My concern currently is that he's struggling to pick up the offense (pure speculation on my part based on a couple of Gabe's comments the other day). He's a weapon though with the ball in his hand, and when called upon this season he has shown flashes on extreme athleticism.

 

4. Josh has been under center more and more - the more we've used play action in the pass game. There has to be balance.

 

5. We've been at our worst running the football out of 12p which has been more under center than in gun (3.26 yards per carry). This myth that getting a full head of stem on runs helps you gain more yards just isn't true. The run game is all about taking proper paths, angles, physicality, timing, and numbers - nothing more - nothing less.

 

6. They're protecting Josh as much as possible. Whether right or wrong - that's what's happening.

 

7. This has to do with what the defense is giving us. I haven't gotten to the A22 from the Patriots yet, but from the broadcast it sounded like that Pats were primarily in C2 looks which takes away our deep passing game and thus opening the underneath. Against the Jags they were primarily in C3 looks and we tried to take advantage of those by running different types of levels concepts to the sidelines. It's a fantastic way to attack Cover 3, but takes longer to develop in some instances. Against the Giants they were running a lot of 1 Rat to start the game and we tried to take advantage of it with our crossers. The gameplan can not and should not look the same week to week. If it did there'd be some serious concerns with Dorsey.

 

8. I agree Cook needs to get more touches in the pass game, but it certainly hasn't been for lack of trying. We've schemed him wide open multiple times on mesh and for whatever reason Allen is staring down Diggs instead of taking what the defense is giving him. We've also design various rub routes to get him open in the RedZone. His lack of targets definitely isn't because of lack of trying.

[Since1981]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

The issue that needs to be fixed is why does it take til halftime to adjust and why can't you make these same adjustments after the 1st or 2nd drive of the 1st half?

Exactly. And this is on HC OC. it’s very clear 1Q, 2Q is a bug as O has same humans better in 3Q/4Q. 

[LeGOATski]

5 hours ago, Success said:

Nicely put together.  And some of it is obvious.

 

I'd like to see more no-huddle, too.  Just throw it in there once in awhile - especially when the offense isn't doing well.

 

And we NEVER do any trick plays. It's good to have a couple in the playbook, and most other teams do.

 

You don't go no-huddle when the offense isn't doing well. That just make them faster at not doing well.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

5 hours ago, Success said:

Nicely put together.  And some of it is obvious.

 

I'd like to see more no-huddle, too.  Just throw it in there once in awhile - especially when the offense isn't doing well.

 

And we NEVER do any trick plays. It's good to have a couple in the playbook, and most other teams do.

 

People forget in 2019 and 2020 we ran lots of trick plays. Always successfully too

[HoofHearted]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

The issue that needs to be fixed is why does it take til halftime to adjust and why can't you make these same adjustments after the 1st or 2nd drive of the 1st half?  Fix that and they go back to putting up crazy numbers.

That’s the most frustrating thing, and I’m sure what’s frustrating for Dorsey right now. We aren’t making sweeping adjustments we’re just executing better in the second half of games. By and large we’re running the same sets and calling the same plays from those sets the second half of these games.

[Success]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

You don't go no-huddle when the offense isn't doing well. That just make them faster at not doing well.

 

That's how the ol' K-Gun started. We were down 14-0 to the Jets, and the offense was stagnant.

 

[Mister Defense]

I agree with almost all of your points, things they need to do.

 

But Dorsey is not going to really listen to anyone, it seems. 

 

He will change things up to a degree, but then always falls back into his lazy, negligent ways, as if he is entitled to this great job.  He will soon learn that is not the case, in my view.

 

He has all of the answers...

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I would just do what we did against Miami. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Knox’s hands make 12 personnel a problem.  

 

Getting wrist surgery, so 12 will be going way down.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

1. Designed runs are going to be the most effective way to get Josh going in the run game and put stress on a defense. You don't want those though as they are designed to hit between the tackles in most instances. So what you are actually asking for is for Josh to get out of the pocket and scramble more? Have there been times this year where Josh has had the opportunity to tuck it and gain some yards, sure, but I do think this is a big step in his maturation as a QB to learn how to operate within a pocket. Is it a struggle right now, sure, but it will set us up for long-term success later.

 

Disagree.  You want to run designed runs, then roll him out, not run him like a FB up the middle off the snap.  And Josh improvising with his legs is a big part of his game, taking that away isn't making him mature as a passer, its making him work against his instincts.  Josh never was a run first QB, he has always looked to throw before running, but now he waits too long for the pass and has missed many opportunities these last 3 weeks where he could have made a positive play by pulling the ball down and taking off and either giving him a better chance for the first down or at least shortening the down to go yardage on the next play.

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

2. You want to scrap 12 personnel yet it has been the most successful personnel package we've had throwing the ball both with and without play action and it's not even close. You also say we're not taking advantage of mismatches within the personnel group, but you don't have a clue what you're looking for. By being in 12p and sitting in these loaded box formation we are forcing defenses out of their Cover 2 shells and allowing our receivers to do big time damage down the field. Josh on play action out of 12p this season is 23/32 for 397 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 12.42 A/NYPA. So, yes, we are taking major advantages of the mismatches created by 12p - you just don't know enough football to understand what those mismatches are that we're taking advantage of.

 

When you run something more than anything, then statistically its going to produce yards because you still have Josh Allen and Diggs.  But from an efficiency stand point, its not been good.  You can't sit here and say how successful its been when we had 7 points midway through the 4th quarter of weeks 5 and 6 and just 10 points in week 7.  There is nothing "successful" about the offense the past 3 weeks and against weak to bad competition to boot.  We should be on a 3 game losing streak, but Giants beat themselves.  

 

And sorry, I assure you I know plenty about football.  And I would say you are actually the one who doesn't understand the mismatches with a 2 TE attack given you just lumped in production that is heavily Diggs and not the TE's.  Kincaid was drafted to be a receiving weapon, and coming into this game he was averaging UNDER 7 yards per catch and so was Knox.  They are not using our 2 athletic TE's to put pressure anywhere else down field.  The offense still produces because we still have Allen and Diggs out there, but that in no way is an indicator that we are using the 2 TE set to an advantage out there, and if you don't believe it, just go rewatch the last 3 games.   

 

If Kincaid and Knox are not being used as anything other than short dump offs or decoys, that is NOT taking advantage of mismatches, that is a poor use of the 12 personnel set, poor use of a first round TE we traded up for, and poor use a $50M TE.  If we hid the names and looked only at the stat sheet, everyone would say Buffalo needs to draft a TE next year because ours average less than 7 YPC through 6 games and have pathetic production.   And this gets magnified when you factor in the only other target out there besides Diggs is Davis who struggles to get separation and it puts a ton of pressure on the Allen to Diggs connection.  There is a reason there is so much talk we are too reliant on Diggs offensively.  

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

3. Davis is the best run blocking WR we have on the roster. That's why his snap count is so high. To your point though - there is absolutely reason to get Shakir more involved in the pass game running the option routes from the slot that Cole use to run. With Knox out for an indefinite period of time I'd expect to see more of him in the slot. I'd also like to see Harty get more involved in the pass game. Harty has the physical ability to be a defensive nightmare in the slot with his speed and agility. My concern currently is that he's struggling to pick up the offense (pure speculation on my part based on a couple of Gabe's comments the other day). He's a weapon though with the ball in his hand, and when called upon this season he has shown flashes on extreme athleticism.

 

We are not running the ball enough to justify Davis getting 96% of the snaps because he is good at blocking.  

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

4. Josh has been under center more and more - the more we've used play action in the pass game. There has to be balance.

 

Still not enough

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

5. We've been at our worst running the football out of 12p which has been more under center than in gun (3.26 yards per carry). This myth that getting a full head of stem on runs helps you gain more yards just isn't true. The run game is all about taking proper paths, angles, physicality, timing, and numbers - nothing more - nothing less.

 

This has more to do with how predictable Dorsey is than anything else.

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

6. They're protecting Josh as much as possible. Whether right or wrong - that's what's happening.

 

Its wrong IMHO

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

7. This has to do with what the defense is giving us. I haven't gotten to the A22 from the Patriots yet, but from the broadcast it sounded like that Pats were primarily in C2 looks which takes away our deep passing game and thus opening the underneath. Against the Jags they were primarily in C3 looks and we tried to take advantage of those by running different types of levels concepts to the sidelines. It's a fantastic way to attack Cover 3, but takes longer to develop in some instances. Against the Giants they were running a lot of 1 Rat to start the game and we tried to take advantage of it with our crossers. The gameplan can not and should not look the same week to week. If it did there'd be some serious concerns with Dorsey.

 

And this is the biggest issue with Dorsey, he just is consistently out coached and is poor to adjust.  

 

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

8. I agree Cook needs to get more touches in the pass game, but it certainly hasn't been for lack of trying. We've schemed him wide open multiple times on mesh and for whatever reason Allen is staring down Diggs instead of taking what the defense is giving him. We've also design various rub routes to get him open in the RedZone. His lack of targets definitely isn't because of lack of trying.

 

I don't buy that, lesser QB's and lesser teams throw to their RB's all the time because its part of their game plan.  Cook is far too often a check-down often late in the read progression.  And when you got an arm talent like Allen, he is more likely to see a throw he feels he can make before he gets back to Cook on the check-down, and that is assuming the OL held long enough to get through his progressions which it hasn't been doing a good job as of late.  

[GunnerBill]

 

i am not overall a Dorsey fan, but he was NOT the probelm vs New England. He called a good game.

[HappyDays]

40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And I would say you are actually the one who doesn't understand the mismatches with a 2 TE attack given you just lumped in production that is heavily Diggs and not the TE's.

 

He is saying that 12 personnel pulls defenses out of cover 2 shell which in turn gives better opportunities for Diggs (and other WRs) to get open downfield. 12 personnel isn't just about feeding the ball to the TEs, it's about opening up more options in the run and the pass game.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Frazier sucked.  Defense was more aggressive since McD took over and he shut down Miami.  If you cant see the difference in the defense under McD compared to Frazier, then I don't know what to tell you (in terms of prior to the injuries).  

 

Does any of that give McD a pass on any responsibility?  No...but Frazier was an issue, and we are a better defense without him. 

 

How was all that aggressive blitzing on Sunday? Answer - a major factor in our loss. 

 

Aggressive does not always = good.

[HappyDays]

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This has more to do with how predictable Dorsey is than anything else.

 

I doubt that. It is probably because defenses are playing the run more when they see us under center especially in 12 personnel, so naturally we will not be as effective. But like the previous point, that also opens up opportunities in the pass game.

47 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don't buy that, lesser QB's and lesser teams throw to their RB's all the time because its part of their game plan.  Cook is far too often a check-down often late in the read progression.  And when you got an arm talent like Allen, he is more likely to see a throw he feels he can make before he gets back to Cook on the check-down, and that is assuming the OL held long enough to get through his progressions which it hasn't been doing a good job as of late.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Dorsey make a concerted effort to make Cook and Kincaid the 1st read on more plays, especially in the 1st half when we have had trouble getting into a rhythm. It's the only schematic solution I can think of to our slow starts on offense.