All-22 analysis of Bills/Jags

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I can’t get too down on Diggs, who is so far having the best season of his career. He is on pace for 132 receptions, 1768 yards, and 17 TDs. I expect it to tail off due to weather, but he has been playing like a first-team all pro this season.

im not down on diggs at all

[HoofHearted]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

@HoofHearted

 

I knew I had an old thread on it and I found it 

 

you are the last comment page 1 

 

And tho I don't think the NFL is playing it off as new or innovative because it's not new

 

I certainly don't think it's as easy to execute at a high level ... some teams just don't have the right guys... Tre and Dane and Micah and Poyer and benford are very heady players... cerebral... they fit it perfectly 

 

You need a defensive back field that is playing in cohesion, and has great field awareness, play recognition... saban has run it with success at Alabama because he recruits super heady cornerbacks.. the best/smartest HS corners and safeties in the country... perfect scheme fit 

 

St John bosco's can run it because they have five division one defensive backs ... I could run it at canisius because they have the best players in buffalo ... But I don't think it would work at JFK because they don't have the right guys or football ability 

 

Some NFL teams have super athletic corners who aren't thinkers ... just turn hips and run ... That team might not find as much success in palms as a team that value cerebral corners

 

 

I disagree. Basically every High School and College in America runs some variation of 2 read coverage. Every NFL team runs some variation of it as well. It’s not an intellectually challenging scheme just takes reps like anything else.

 

As an aside Saban doesn’t run a ton of Palms - he’s made his name through his Match 3 coverages. Completely different.

Edited October 10, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

I disagree. Basically every High School and College in America runs some variation of 2 read coverage. Every NFL team runs some variation of it as well. It’s not an intellectually challenging scheme just takes reps like anything else.

 

As an aside Saban doesn’t run a ton of Palms - he’s made his name through his Match 3 coverages. Completely different.

Im not saying saban runs palms as his go to ... just that he has ran it over the years which he definitely has utilized

 

And I think you're confusing.. the ability to run something.. and the ability to run something well

 

Every team can run the read option.. it doesn't mean they all do it successfully... There's plenty of high school teams that can hardly execute quarters... And give up 40 a game... They're not executing palms

 

There are plenty of teams that when they run 2 read they look lost ... It's not a guarantee to be executed

 

As a defensive coordinator you should understand that... There's plenty of things the Bills defense does well... And then there's things they try to do that they don't do well

 

I've seen plenty of teams over 20 years execute palms terribly... So terribly they shouldn't play it

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Im not saying saban runs palms as his go to ... just that he has ran it over the years which he definitely has utilized

 

And I think you're confusing.. the ability to run something.. and the ability to run something well

 

Every team can run the read option.. it doesn't mean they all do it successfully... There's plenty of high school teams that can hardly execute quarters... They're not executing palms

 

There are plenty of teams that when they run 2 read they look lost ... It's not a guarantee to be executed

 

As a defensive coordinator you should understand that... There's plenty of things but Bill's defense does well... And then there's things they try to do that they don't do well

 

 

Sure. If your players suck it doesn’t matter what you run - it’s going to suck.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Sure. If your players suck it doesn’t matter what you run - it’s going to suck.

Well that was my point

 

You need to have the players to execute... 

 

There's plenty of teams who try to execute things that they don't have the dogs to do

 

When our entire secondary went down last year we didn't execute it as well and we had to get more basic 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

The best the Bills have ever been in YAC since Josh took over as QB is 14th.  So it makes more sense to you that they consistently sign wideouts who can't separate for the last 6 years than it is to say Josh's throwing style doesn't lead to YAC yardage?

 

They've had how many different tight ends and wideouts since 2018?  I can count 10 without trying, and all of those guys can't separate?   Yes, I am repeating my opinion on this redundantly, because it comes up multiple times a year.  

 

Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.

 

I blame Goodell for using our Bills as an a scheduling experiment.

 

Hard to believe he was born in Jamestown. Heck, I rode my bike there as a kid.

 

No home town help coming from that guy.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

@HoofHearted

 

Saban truly is the greatest college coach and defensive mind in the modern era of college

 

His cover 3 match and cover 7 match principles have created his defensive dynasty but really cannot be replicated by lots of teams who try and copy 

 

His attention to detail on the defensive side... His ability to recruit and develop talent for his system... And get the players into the right technique is second to none.. he dictates offenses not vice versa

 

Georgia certainly is building their program in the saban mold ... and since it's Kirby smart it makes sense 

 

But if you gonna run pattern matching zone coverages it better be your bread and butter ... like saban or McDermott and you better have the dogs 

 

A staple you can run in your sleep because rn even in D1... there are teams that are lost defensively when they go zone 

 

Players just can't execute 

 

Of course saban has perfected it along stops at Toledo and Michigan State and LSU and Alabama

 

There is a lot of good young minds in football on the defensive side but Saban has the mold for sure 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[harmonkillebrew]

21 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

Josh is a great but flawed quarterback. All his physical tools are ideal. He has, and still can (a lot of the time), rely heavily on these tools. He hasn’t had to be a student of the game beyond what is normal (for starting nfl quarterbacks). If he wants to go to the next level he has to develop this aspect of his game. He has to make his changeup as good as his fastball if you will. 
 

These shortcomings are also on coaching. The coordinator and the qb are a package. 
 

These criticisms are in the context of josh already being a great nfl quarterback. 

That's not the take away at all.  The take away from this game is that Josh needs better coaching and skilled players. 

 

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

That's not the take away at all.  The take away from this game is that Josh needs better coaching and skilled players. 

 

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

Can't get over the fact that the Chiefs were able to beat them only scoring 17 tbh

 

Doesn't make sense

[90sBills]

20 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Shhhh. It's all Josh's fault

Pfffft. It’s never ever Allen’s fault. He’s flawless!

18 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I agree. The argument I’m making is nuanced or maybe not as obvious as the failures you’ve pointed out. I expect people to disagree with me as they see ANY criticism of josh as sacrilegious. 

How dare you even insinuate that he’s anything but the best and most perfect qb in the history of the NFL. 

[Just in Atlanta]

Marino's all 22 analysis makes sense.

 

What killed us? In potential order of importance:

 

1. Dropped passes. 
2. Awful YAC.
3. Missed tackles (19!).
4. Bad running (Cook in particular). 
5. Injuries
6. Bad run design into a loaded box (Dorsey). 
7. Poor officiating (but on both teams).

 

Four out of seven (bolded) of these can be traced to the fact that these guys were visibly not juiced to play. It sounds silly to even say that, with millions on the line, but the ridiculous amount of missed tackles, low YAC, poor run decisions and dropped balls were probably directly correlated to the poor decision to arrive in London on Friday. 

 

In a game of inches, just one play can mean the difference. Our offense only seemed alive for the last part of the first and second halves. 

 

Side point 1: I agree with Marino that Josh was really good in this game. 

 

Side point 2: As the all 22 showed, Elam was not that bad ... and actually flashed some solid upside. Wrong angles at times. He was picked on, yes. But he's making rookie mistakes. Despite being an NFL fan for 40 years, I'll never understand how some fans come away with such strong takes based on a few seconds of camera footage in live games. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I can’t get too down on Diggs, who is so far having the best season of his career. He is on pace for 132 receptions, 1768 yards, and 17 TDs. I expect it to tail off due to weather, but he has been playing like a first-team all pro this season.

I'm not down on Diggs at all.  The guy has been elite every year he's been a Bill.  He's off to a great start this season to.  He has earned the right to drop a pass now and then just like Allen has earned the right to make a bad throw. 

 

My point on that play was that there were some posters throwing it out as an example of a bad Allen throw when in fact by NFL standards it was a great throw that traveled 65 - 70 yards in the air.   If you go back to 2020 when we beat the Raiders Diggs made a high point catch on a ball that was almost a carbon copy of the throw Allen made on Sunday with the exception that the Sunday throw was 10 yards further.

 

 

40 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

This is a great and disturbing point.  But given the offenses performance over the previous 3 weeks I'm going with jet lag.

 

 

13 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Pfffft. It’s never ever Allen’s fault. He’s flawless!

How dare you even insinuate that he’s anything but the best and most perfect qb in the history of the NFL. 

No one is saying this.  But it's enlightening that you try to claim people are.

 

[Scott7975]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can't get over the fact that the Chiefs were able to beat them only scoring 17 tbh

 

Doesn't make sense

 

I think the difference is KC defense got off the field on 3rd down.  As good as our defense was at not letting them score, they still let them drive the field or at least flip the field. By the time our O finally started scoring, our D was gassed and depleted.

[90sBills]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No one is saying this.  But it's enlightening that you try to claim people are.

 

The next time you have any criticism of Allen will be the first time. And it would truly be an enlightened moment.

 

Btw…I’m not blaming this loss on Allen. It’s a team loss. The offense just couldn’t get going despite a valiant effort by the shorthanded defense.

[Scott7975]

Whose to blame for this garbage?  This spacing happens every game in multiple areas of the field going back to last year.  I been making comments on it all season but no one seems to care lol.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Whose to blame for this garbage?  This spacing happens every game in multiple areas of the field going back to last year.  I been making comments on it all season but no one seems to care lol.

 

 

The concept is simple but effective

 

The execution was terrible.. you're getting a rub route on a mesh ... And the hook on the sit down should be between zone defenders.. so it should beat man and zone

 

The running back is a nice outlet and the out route should clear space

 

Just terrible execution

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Whose to blame for this garbage?  This spacing happens every game in multiple areas of the field going back to last year.  I been making comments on it all season but no one seems to care lol.

 

 

That's got to be on Knox 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The concept is simple but effective

 

The execution was terrible.. you're getting a rub route on a mesh ... And the hook on the sit down should be between zone defenders.. so it should beat man and zone

 

The running back is a nice outlet and the out route should clear space

 

Just terrible execution

 

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's got to be on Knox 

 

You can see this type of stuff almost every game. If it's execution then why are these guys so bad?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

You can see this type of stuff almost every game. If it's execution then why are these guys so bad?

what do you mean

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

 

Yea the rest of the offense was bad, all around. Worst game the OL had played, dropped passes.... but the gameplan was worst of all. I saw Dorsey resolutely try and use the plan that worked v Miami against a team defending us in a *very* different way. 

[london_bills]

23 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I disagree, his recognition and anticipation are not great. 
 

flaw might be the wrong word. Weakness is what I meant 

I think this is fair to an extent. But I've been impressed with his change from week 1 to be making safer decisions with the ball. 

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

You can see this type of stuff almost every game. If it's execution then why are these guys so bad?

It is clearly a lack of practice or lack of practicing the correct way on offense.  You simply have to contrast it with what the Jags were able to do on multiple third downs - Lawrence faced the rush and threw it to a specific spot on the field he knew his receiver would end up in due to the coverage and play call and it worked over and over again.  That is a well-timed, precise, practiced and properly COACHED offense that a lesser QB than Allen was able to execute successfully.

 

We need an overhaul of the entire approach on offense, from the roster allocation strategy to the coaching.  I am convinced.

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

what do you mean

 

Other top tier offenses don't have persistent issues like that. I guess it could be tunnel vision, like we're Bills fans so we only see bizarre spacing and execution issues like that when it happens to our team. But I feel like the Chiefs, 49ers, Dolphins, etc. don't have those problems. Our offense as a whole just looks a lot less crisp than other championship contenders.

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Other top tier offenses don't have persistent issues like that. I guess it could be tunnel vision, like we're Bills fans so we only see bizarre spacing and execution issues like that when it happens to our team. But I feel like the Chiefs, 49ers, Dolphins, etc. don't have those problems. Our offense as a whole just looks a lot less crisp than other championship contenders.

I agree. It seems like the Bills offense has to work hard for everything. One penalty, loss of yardage play, and or a drop seems to be hard to overcome. The offensive stats probably don't validate this but that's how I feel. Sure seems like the players have to over execute to make their plays and offensive system work. Nothing seems to come easy. I really think the offensive besides Diggs lacks reliability and explosiveness. Maybe I'm wrong. Hope I'm wrong because it sure seems like the offense has to pick things up for the injury riddled D. 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It is clearly a lack of practice or lack of practicing the correct way on offense.  You simply have to contrast it with what the Jags were able to do on multiple third downs - Lawrence faced the rush and threw it to a specific spot on the field he knew his receiver would end up in due to the coverage and play call and it worked over and over again.  That is a well-timed, precise, practiced and properly COACHED offense that a lesser QB than Allen was able to execute successfully.

 

We need an overhaul of the entire approach on offense, from the roster allocation strategy to the coaching.  I am convinced.

 

On coaching- It does sometimes feel like Dorsey is making moves reactively versus proactively.

 

"We have two good TEs. Run a lot of 12 personnel."

 

"Defenses are taking away deep passes. Go full on dink and dunk all the time."

 

And then when we end up in games where our usual solutions aren't working, Dorsey is way too slow to adjust. Multiple offensive duds each of the past two years including one in the playoffs. There's too few games in a season to have this many gameplan clunkers.

 

On personnel - Maybe our offensive weapons don't mesh together well, I don't know. We have zero YAC specialists. We have like 4 guys that all perform better in the slot. We run a lot of 12 personnel without a TE that excels as a blocker. Davis is a poor fit as a full time outside WR2. It's kind of just a hodgepodge of guys with incongruous skill sets.

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

On coaching- It does sometimes feel like Dorsey is making moves reactively versus proactively.

 

"We have two good TEs. Run a lot of 12 personnel."

 

"Defenses are taking away deep passes. Go full on dink and dunk all the time."

 

And then when we end up in games where our usual solutions aren't working, Dorsey is way too slow to adjust. Multiple offensive duds each of the past two years including one in the playoffs. There's too few games in a season to have this many gameplan clunkers.

 

On personnel - Maybe our offensive weapons don't mesh together well, I don't know. We have zero YAC specialists. We have like 4 guys that all perform better in the slot. We run a lot of 12 personnel without a TE that excels as a blocker. Davis is a poor fit as a full time outside WR2. It's kind of just a hodgepodge of guys with incongruous skill sets.

I'll agree with most but Knox is a very good blocker ... he even can pass block d ends 1 on 1 

 

He's very well rounded and is big part of our blocking scheme 

 

I remember him Stone Cold shutting down Matthew Judan an entire game... impressive 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'll agree with most but Knox is a very good blocker ... he even can pass block d ends 1 on 1 

 

He is a good blocker but I wouldn't say he excels. And he's an inconsistent route runner and pass catcher to boot. Ideally 12 personnel you would have a blocking specialist.

 

When Beane talked about it after drafting Kincaid, he said our 12 personnel would really be 11 personnel with Kincaid as the SWR taking on Beasley's old role. That was my expectation as well. But that hasn't really come to fruition at all. Which brings me to my point of Dorsey using 2TE sets because he feels like he has to, not because he actually knows how to use that package to create mismatches.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by HappyDays

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

The next time you have any criticism of Allen will be the first time. And it would truly be an enlightened moment.

 

Btw…I’m not blaming this loss on Allen. It’s a team loss. The offense just couldn’t get going despite a valiant effort by the shorthanded defense.

Oh please.  I'm critical of Allen when it's warranted.  As a Bills fan why would I want to make stuff up just to be critical of our franchise QB especially given that most of the time Allen plays at a very good to elite level.

 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:39 PM, Shortchaz said:

Josh is a great but flawed quarterback. All his physical tools are ideal. He has, and still can (a lot of the time), rely heavily on these tools. He hasn’t had to be a student of the game beyond what is normal (for starting nfl quarterbacks). If he wants to go to the next level he has to develop this aspect of his game. He has to make his changeup as good as his fastball if you will. 
 

These shortcomings are also on coaching. The coordinator and the qb are a package. 
 

These criticisms are in the context of josh already being a great nfl quarterback. 

 

You do realize that this flatly contradicts the very nice point by point summary of the all-22 review @HappyDays provided?

 

What are you, one of those old-fashioned crying baby dolls where you squeeze it the right way and it wails the same tune?

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He is a good blocker but I wouldn't say he excels. And he's an inconsistent route runner and pass catcher to boot. Ideally 12 personnel you would have a blocking specialist.

 

When Beane talked about it after drafting Kincaid, he said our 12 personnel would really be 11 personnel with Kincaid as the SWR taking on Beasley's old role. That was my expectation as well. But that hasn't really come to fruition at all. Which brings me to my point of Dorsey using 2TE sets because he feels like he has to, not because he actually knows how to use that package to create mismatches.

 

The days of blocking specialist tight ends are getting phased out... unless you're a team that's going to hand off the ball to a running back 300 times a year

 

We were running team for 20 years so the bills could carry it.. Tennessee could carry it with King Henry.. Baltimore

 

But the bills mask their under center offense with basically a spread offense.. and with the limited roster space, a blocking specialist is probably far down the list

 

I've seen Dawson Knox Stalwart Matthew judon for an entire game and he's a pro bowler.. not beat him for a few reps

 

Literally out muscle him for an entire game and demoralize him..  whoop him in pass blocking

 

He's definitely an inconsistent receiver who can make big plays.. but he's definitely one of the better blocking starting tight ends in the league

 

I don't think Dorsey knows how to use tight ends that well right now

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Shortchaz]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You do realize that this flatly contradicts the very nice point by point summary of the all-22 review @HappyDays provided?

 

What are you, one of those old-fashioned crying baby dolls where you squeeze it the right way and it wails the same tune?

You apparently skipped the FIRST section of the review and went directly to the sections that praised josh. 
 

your brain lumps anything critical of josh into one category so your thoughts aren’t challenged. It’s a normal defense mechanism. It’s okay, many people can’t handle complex ideas. 

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It is clearly a lack of practice or lack of practicing the correct way on offense.  You simply have to contrast it with what the Jags were able to do on multiple third downs - Lawrence faced the rush and threw it to a specific spot on the field he knew his receiver would end up in due to the coverage and play call and it worked over and over again.  That is a well-timed, precise, practiced and properly COACHED offense that a lesser QB than Allen was able to execute successfully.

 

We need an overhaul of the entire approach on offense, from the roster allocation strategy to the coaching.  I am convinced.

The offense is good mostly because of Allen's greatness. His ability to make all the throws, scramble, and extend plays. 

 

The Bills offensive scheme is very vanilla, lacks creativity, motion, is rarely team specific, one play hardly ever sets up another play, and lacks proper gametime adjustments.

 

I feel like the Bills O just sticks with the general offensive plan. Kind of like this is what we do go ahead and try to stop it. They believe they can out execute the other teams D. This works super well against lesser opponents and even good opponents. Number 17 and 14 can carry a team often. 

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the outlook of the offense. I know numbers say otherwise. The Miami game was fantastic and can't be discounted. Dorsey was great too! I fear that might be more of an anomaly. I know others will chime in and give great input as to why my viewpoint is likely inaccurate. Please do because I want to be wrong. 

 

More specifically, I feel like the offense isn't explosive and lacks weapons. There's Diggs and really no one else. The 12 personnel is a joke. The use of Knox and Kincaid for 5 yard passes is anything but brilliant. Davis is scoring TDs and is decent. The drops are what they are. An upgrade is really needed but he's cheap and serviceable. The chemistry with Allen is indisputable. The rest of the WR core is subpar. Still no slot receiver. Still no screen passes. 

 

Another huge concern is the Bills WRs cannot create separation. This is why they are at the bottom of the league for YAC. Without YAC, the offense has to work way way way too hard to score. 

 

Allen is less of a weapon this year because he's not running much. After 5 games his legs have been under utilized. Maybe that's a good thing long term but it certainly makes the Bills O less dynamic. I get it's a balancing act between protecting Allen and winning games. The Jags game sure looked like Allen had a few lanes to get some good yardage. When Allen runs it sure seems to spark the offense. They needed a spark in Sunday. 

 

I was very impressed with the oline until the Jags game. Hopefully, that was just a London travel thing. As we know a good oline makes an offense much much more dangerous. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He is a good blocker but I wouldn't say he excels. And he's an inconsistent route runner and pass catcher to boot. Ideally 12 personnel you would have a blocking specialist.

 

When Beane talked about it after drafting Kincaid, he said our 12 personnel would really be 11 personnel with Kincaid as the SWR taking on Beasley's old role. That was my expectation as well. But that hasn't really come to fruition at all. Which brings me to my point of Dorsey using 2TE sets because he feels like he has to, not because he actually knows how to use that package to create mismatches.

 

 

I could be mistaken, but I thought the reviews after the Raiders and the Miami games were that Dorsey had used 12 personnel quite effectively

 

I'm not a college football fan, but I thought the Hurricaines used 2 TE quite a bit when Dorsey went 38-2 with them.  Pretty sure the Panthers used 2 TE sets a lot while Dorsey was their QB coach and Mike Shula (who is now in the Bills building with Dorsey) was OC, especially in 2015 when Ed Dickson got there.

 

I think it's pretty unlikely that Dorsey doesn't "know how to use that package to create mismatches"

 

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think Dorsey knows how to use tight ends that well right now

 

Interesting.  Why do you think that?

 

I've seen Kincaid open underneath.  But I've also seen him getting mauled around off the line and trying to run routes with one of his arms being held behind him. I think Kincaid needs to adjust to the physicality of the NFL some.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Beck Water

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The offense is good mostly because of Allen's greatness. His ability to make all the throws, scramble, and extend plays. 

 

The Bills offensive scheme is very vanilla, lacks creativity, motion, is rarely team specific, one play hardly ever sets up another play, and lacks proper gametime adjustments.

 

I feel like the Bills O just sticks with the general offensive plan. Kind of like this is what we do go ahead and try to stop it. They believe they can out execute the other teams D. This works super well against lesser opponents and even good opponents. Number 17 and 14 can carry a team often. 

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the outlook of the offense. I know numbers say otherwise. The Miami game was fantastic and can't be discounted. Dorsey was great too! I fear that might be more of an anomaly. I know others will chime in and give great input as to why my viewpoint is likely inaccurate. Please do because I want to be wrong. 

 

More specifically, I feel like the offense isn't explosive and lacks weapons. There's Diggs and really no one else. The 12 personnel is a joke. The use of Knox and Kincaid for 5 yard passes is anything but brilliant. Davis is scoring TDs and is decent. The drops are what they are. An upgrade is really needed but he's cheap and serviceable. The chemistry with Allen is indisputable. The rest of the WR core is subpar. Still no slot receiver. Still no screen passes. 

 

Another huge concern is the Bills WRs cannot create separation. This is why they are at the bottom of the league for YAC. Without YAC, the offense has to work way way way too hard to score. 

 

Allen is less of a weapon this year because he's not running much. After 5 games his legs have been under utilized. Maybe that's a good thing long term but it certainly makes the Bills O less dynamic. I get it's a balancing act between protecting Allen and winning games. The Jags game sure looked like Allen had a few lanes to get some good yardage. When Allen runs it sure seems to spark the offense. They needed a spark in Sunday. 

 

I was very impressed with the oline until the Jags game. Hopefully, that was just a London travel thing. As we know a good oline makes an offense much much more dangerous. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

The Buffalo Bills, even after week 5, are 6th in the league in YAC, 4th in receiving yards and third in number of completions. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/advanced.htm

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

You apparently skipped the FIRST section of the review and went directly to the sections that praised josh. 
 

your brain lumps anything critical of josh into one category so your thoughts aren’t challenged. It’s a normal defense mechanism. It’s okay, many people can’t handle complex ideas. 

 

Now this is pure trolling, and not good trolling at all.  Back under your bridge, ShortArm.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I could be mistaken, but I thought the reviews after the Raiders and the Miami games were that Dorsey had used 12 personnel quite effectively

 

I'm not a college football fan, but I thought the Hurricaines used 2 TE quite a bit when Dorsey went 38-2 with them.  Pretty sure the Panthers used 2 TE sets a lot while Dorsey was their QB coach and Mike Shula (who is now in the Bills building with Dorsey) was OC, especially in 2015 when Ed Dickson got there.

 

I think it's pretty unlikely that Dorsey doesn't "know how to use that package to create mismatches"

 

 

Interesting.  Why do you think that?

 

I've seen Kincaid open underneath.  But I've also seen him getting mauled around off the line and trying to run routes with one of his arms being held behind him. I think Kincaid needs to adjust to the physicality of the NFL some.

I mean it's a long season so I'm open to how it evolves

 

But even last year I felt that Knox can be used more as a vertical threat.. and right now Kincaid is being a steady check down option

 

But I feel he has so much potential down the seam which we aren't utilizing right now

 

Fitz use the torch the seams with Scott Chandler... Knox and Kincaid could be Killers down the middle

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:48 PM, Xwnyer said:

Does he ever hit a receiver in stride across the middle or in the flat,  sure does on deep ball but not the shorter passes.

He sure looks accurate on the slant throws to Diggs

[GoBills808]

47 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Other top tier offenses don't have persistent issues like that. I guess it could be tunnel vision, like we're Bills fans so we only see bizarre spacing and execution issues like that when it happens to our team. But I feel like the Chiefs, 49ers, Dolphins, etc. don't have those problems. Our offense as a whole just looks a lot less crisp than other championship contenders.

Maybe

 

But I'm pretty sure I could comb thru a Chiefs or Lions game and find a similarly poorly spaced play design here or there

 

My position on the offense remains they're doing the best they can wrt personnel

 

Just a guess