FireChans Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. 12 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Play action improves protection Whenever Allen has reasonable (doesn't even have to be good) pass protection he is the best QB in the league 9 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. There's a world of difference when the Bills utilize play action from under center when they have a viable run game that the defense has to worry about, versus never lining up under center and half assing play action out of shotgun to a running back the defense doesn't respect. 4 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. Rex Ryan said as much that whether you can run the ball or not makes no difference in terms of the success of play action because it causes a split second hesitation for the players to locate the ball and then they have to make a decision on what to do. That hesitation is going to happen no matter what and that is enough time for the offense to create separation or give Allen a little extra time to attack deep. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Can playaction be effective without a running game, sure, would it be more effective with a good running game, obviously. 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Rex Ryan said as much that whether you can run the ball or not makes no difference in terms of the success of play action because it causes a split second hesitation for the players to locate the ball and then they have to make a decision on what to do. That hesitation is going to happen no matter what and that is enough time for the offense to create separation or give Allen a little extra time to attack deep. Yeah I hate to give credit to the old Blowhard but I heard him and he is right. Josh under center with lay action is hard to beat, 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Motorin' said: There's a world of difference when the Bills utilize play action from under center when they have a viable run game that the defense has to worry about, versus never lining up under center and half assing play action out of shotgun to a running back the defense doesn't respect. this is the relationship between EPA/rush and EPA/play action dropback as you can see very little correlation the quality of your run game does not impact the effectiveness of play action passes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 josh also needs to be under center. 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Can playaction be effective without a running game, sure, would it be more effective with a good running game, obviously. What seems to matter (and would like to see some data) is if the formation is under center or not. My thought is under center the ball gets hidden better and thus the LBs come a bit further forward. I also suspect a down and distance aspect to this. 3 & 10 is not gonna bring the LBs up as much as 3 & 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co_springs_billsfan Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: this is the relationship between EPA/rush and EPA/play action dropback as you can see very little correlation the quality of your run game does not impact the effectiveness of play action passes Never been a fan of Jackson Pollock 12 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. I posted last week he needed to be under center a lot more and got blasted for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 I've always hated the shotgun draw. It completely neutralizes the speed of Cook. Now with 3 different rbs, we have the luxury to freeze lbs and take a few shots downfield. We as fans have been screaming for it (along with more motion) and its finally happening. Hats off to Dorsey & McD recognizing this missing piece. 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: this is the relationship between EPA/rush and EPA/play action dropback as you can see very little correlation the quality of your run game does not impact the effectiveness of play action passes Oh ok then. So if the Bills line up in shotgun 100% of the time, never run the ball once, the play cation would be just as effective as lining up under center 50% of the time and having a pass / run ratio of 50 / 50? Your scatter plot reminds me of the study Purdue pharma used to insist that less than 1% of patients will become addicted to oxycontin. 9 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: What seems to matter (and would like to see some data) is if the formation is under center or not. My thought is under center the ball gets hidden better and thus the LBs come a bit further forward. I also suspect a down and distance aspect to this. 3 & 10 is not gonna bring the LBs up as much as 3 & 3. Who needs context when you have maths? Edited October 2, 2023 by Motorin' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 26 minutes ago, FireChans said: Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. It's not about the run, it's the threat of the run. Need to keep showing it in early downs, even if it's not working that well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 26 minutes ago, FireChans said: Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. Can you imagine Josh with Kyle Shannahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 I get a tingly feeling when I see Josh under center. It could be sexual but I think it's that part of me that loves the old school 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Oh ok then. So if the Bills line up in shotgun 100% of the time, never run the ball once, the play cation would be just as effective as lining up under center 50% of the time and having a pass / run ratio of 50 / 50? correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Oh ok then. So if the Bills line up in shotgun 100% of the time, never run the ball once, the play cation would be just as effective as lining up under center 50% of the time and having a pass / run ratio of 50 / 50? Your scatter plot reminds me of the study Purdue pharma used to insist that less than 1% of patients will become addicted to oxycontin. Yep and it is. Also you can line up under center 100% of the time and NEVER run and play action will still just be as effective. As proven OVER and OVER and OVER again. You do not NEED an effective Running Game for Play action to work. Edited October 2, 2023 by MAJBobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: correct Tell me you don't know how to interpret statistics without telling me you don't know how to interpret statistics. 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Yep and it is. Also you can line up under center 100% of the time and NEVER run and play action will still just be as effective. And there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow too! Edited October 2, 2023 by Motorin' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Just now, Motorin' said: Tell me you don't know how to interpret statistics without telling me you don't know how to interpret statistics. And there's a pot at the end of the rainbow. Sorry you do not. The reality is all the analytics SHOW THAT. Why? LBers play of KEYS. G-C-G Triangle (run action they play Run) Through QB to RB A RUN ACTION the LBers will play RUN. That is the reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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