Eating crow x2

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I hereby admit defeat in 2 proclamations I made this offseason.

 

1- Deonte Harty.  Dunno if it’s the superdome turf or the way the saints used him but it looks like he’s lost of juice.  He doesn’t look nearly as explosive as he in NO.  I’d hate to see him continue to get looks when he can’t get separation and can’t make anyone miss. Can Dorsey scheme this guy some space?  Maybe he plans of having him run some streaks to catch the D off guard? If not, he should be on the bench.  He doesn’t look to have “it”.  
 

It’s only 3 games…..but I don’t see how he’s going to all of a sudden be faster.  If he’s not faster than what we’re seeing, he’s a bust.  

 

2- Terrel Bernard-  I would’ve been happy if we traded him for a 6th rd pick a month ago.  I thought he was too small and weak for the part.  His college injury history (in addition to his size) was also a big flag. Suppose that will always be a worry.
 

I wanted to roll with Dorian Williams and let him play through his mistakes at the expense of our defense because i didn’t think Bernard had his upside. 
 

Through 3 games……. I feel like we have our Mike.  He flies to the ball.  He’s decisive.  He seems to be a solid wrap up tackler. He understands zone coverage very well and communicates it to his teammates.  I don’t have a lot of confidence in him replicating Sundays performance vs Miami, but I am confidant and happy that I was wrong about him.  
 

Are you ready to chow down on some crow?

 

Already offered to munch crow over Bernard.  Pining for the opportunity to keep munching all season long.

 

Harty is currently #17 in the league for punt yards/return.  So we're getting some use out of him as a punt returner.  Which puts him one slot behind former Bill Ray ray McCloud ($2M/yr cap hit) and nine slots behind former Bill Isaiah McKenzie ($1.232M cap hit) 😈

 

'Course, having reliable abilities to track the ball and bring it in when the winds grow tough will be part of the picture.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't know what to expect of Harty but I agree, he's been disappointing.   It might have something to do with Dorsey (sooner or later I always come back to Dorsey!).   A guy like Harty has to get the ball in stride and in space that allows get up to speed before he has to deal with tacklers.   Instead, he seems to get the same opportunities that didn't work for McKenzie, either.  

 

As for Bernard, I hate to bring up a sore subject, but I told you so.  I mean, I had the same doubts that many people had here.   What I also had, that many people didn't, is confidence in McDermott and Beane.  If Bernard were as bad as we thought he was, McDermott and Beane would have done something to get help.  They did nothing, and as I suspected, they did nothing because they knew the defense would be fine with Bernard in the middle.   They brought in Kirksey to be a veteran backup, not to take the starting job. 

 

Did I expect him to be the guy we saw on Sunday?  No.  The Cover One video breakdown of him shows some amazing talent, both physical and mental.  

It’s not a sore subject. I’m eating crow on it right now.  I’m extremely happy. I have no problem owning my misses and I’m transition from “being right” on a guy to “hellllll yeah let’s goooooooo” on a guy.  

[mrags]

43 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Why are people so quick to say it’s a Dorsey thing not Harry? He has been in the league 5 years and his best year is 36 rec for 500 yards. That is basically McK production from last year. The guy has like 800 yards total in his fifth year and it’s not him but we are not using him right? I guess no one has used him right then. 

 

35 minutes ago, Airseven said:

The notion that Harty was going to be an upgrade was the typical baseless wishful thinking. 

Yup. This x1,000

20 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Already offered to munch crow over Bernard.  Pining for the opportunity to keep munching all season long.

 

Harty is currently #17 in the league for punt yards/return.  So we're getting some use out of him as a punt returner.  Which puts him one slot behind former Bill Ray ray McCloud ($2M/yr cap hit) and nine slots behind former Bill Isaiah McKenzie ($1.232M cap hit) 😈

 

'Course, having reliable abilities to track the ball and bring it in when the winds grow tough will be part of the picture.

I feel like this argument is as useless as the argument that we have a home field advantage in the winter time when it’s snowing and windy and rainy because we deal with it all the time and other teams don’t. 

[NewEra]

45 minutes ago, mrags said:

You and I pretty much have the exact thoughts on Bernard. Thought he was too small/undersized for MLB in the league. And while it might still turn out that way. As teams start to plan against him. I do still think he could be a liability in a more run heavy offensive gameplan. 
 

unfortunately I knew this about Harty. Unlike you and many others, I NEVER saw anything special or even quick in him in his time in NO. Everyone wants to talk about him having a full route tree and being more versatile than what we’ve had at the position. I tried telling everyone that even his best years aren’t as good as McKenzies and McKenzie sucked. I didn’t buy the thought that with a good QB he would all the sudden produce. 
 

same as Bernard, things could change throughout the season. But I don’t buy it. I also believe it won’t be long until he’s injured. He’s been injured about 1/3 of his career so he’s likely due to come down with something within the next 1-2 games and miss some time. Trust me, I wish I was wrong but I just don’t think I will be. 

Yeah, Bernard isn’t out of the woods yet. This week will be a great test for him in the run game. 

 

Idk how anyone doesn’t see “quick” in his game.  After just watching 20 mins of his highlights, he seems to be lacking the extra gear I was expecting 98% of the time.  He had it on a couple plays- mostly on returns and then one play vs the cowboys iirc.  I do see quick on the majority of his highlights though.  
 

I hope we’re wrong about Bernard holding up.  I just hope that Dorian steps in if he goes down.  Please no Dodson

27 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Already offered to munch crow over Bernard.  Pining for the opportunity to keep munching all season long.

 

Harty is currently #17 in the league for punt yards/return.  So we're getting some use out of him as a punt returner.  Which puts him one slot behind former Bill Ray ray McCloud ($2M/yr cap hit) and nine slots behind former Bill Isaiah McKenzie ($1.232M cap hit) 😈

 

'Course, having reliable abilities to track the ball and bring it in when the winds grow tough will be part of the picture.

My crow is regarding Harty as a WR.  When we signed him, I figured it would be Hines on returns.  
 

I thought we’d be able to get him loose.  🤦🏻‍♂️ 

[mrags]

Just now, NewEra said:

Yeah, Bernard isn’t out of the woods yet. This week will be a great test for him in the run game. 

 

Idk how anyone doesn’t see “quick” in his game.  After just watching 20 mins of his highlights, he seems to be lacking the extra gear I was expecting 98% of the time.  He had it on a couple plays- mostly on returns and then one play vs the cowboys iirc.  I do see quick on the majority of his highlights though.  
 

I hope we’re wrong about Bernard holding up.  I just hope that Dorian steps in if he goes down.  Please no Dodson

Agree with Williams if Bernard goes down. But there is one thing to be said for veterans coming in to play. Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked if they went with Klein up from the practice squad if something happened. They’ve done it before. They obviously have faith in him. 
 

yeah, I just don’t see any of that in Harty. In fact I find it odd you were able to find 20 minutes of highlights on him. I’ve hated the pickup of him from the start and forced myself to look at highlights to try and understand why and the most I found was 3-4 minute videos. Which all have the same plays on them. The guy just isn’t good. Never has been. Likely never will be. He could put up 200 yards this week and 6tds and I’ll still think he’s garbage that got lucky and had the game of his life. 

More than anything we wasted $9m over 2 years in him. $5m+ this year. We could have used that towards someone with some actual promise. Like a RT that everyone doesn’t hate. Or maybe used that money to attempt getting a real WR in here to help on offense. That money would have went a long way towards DHop at the time. Instead we got this lame duck 17th ranked punt returner. 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

yeah, I just don’t see any of that in Harty. In fact I find it odd you were able to find 20 minutes of highlights on him. I’ve hated the pickup of him from the start and forced myself to look at highlights to try and understand why and the most I found was 3-4 minute videos. Which all have the same plays on them. The guy just isn’t good. Never has been. Likely never will be. He could put up 200 yards this week and 6tds and I’ll still think he’s garbage that got lucky and had the game of his life. 

 

It's the second hit searching Youtube for Deonte Harty.  2021 highlights. 20 min 22 sec.

 

He legit had a good 2021.  But there was always the question was that a fluke, and would he hold up.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[Big Blitz]

I’m currently very wrong on Cook.  Really wrong.    
 

I did think we needed a MLB but I didn’t know what to make of Bernard.  Because we hadn’t seen him!

 

I’m convinced McD is the best DC in the NFL.  That’s why he’s calling plays.  
 

Have we seen elite QB play yet - no but everything looks and feels different about the defense and how they’re playing.

 

We could give up 24 points this week that’s just fine.  I feel like if we lose it’s not going to be because of defense.   
 

 

I still have major concerns on Dorsey tho more optimistic then after the Jets debacle. 
 

 

I also know, I’d very much not like to peak in September/October *cough cough Miami cough cough**

[NickelCity]

I'm sure I've said crow worthy things about Bernard, but I'll also flag that during the red and blue scrimmage he popped to me when others were talking about Dodson. Player of the day out there...but that's the last we saw of him. I, too, got scared off by that. Thought kirksey was a lock to start. What an impressive performance by him so far, and he deserves a lot of love. 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, mrags said:

Agree with Williams if Bernard goes down. But there is one thing to be said for veterans coming in to play. Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked if they went with Klein up from the practice squad if something happened. They’ve done it before. They obviously have faith in him. 
 

yeah, I just don’t see any of that in Harty. In fact I find it odd you were able to find 20 minutes of highlights on him. I’ve hated the pickup of him from the start and forced myself to look at highlights to try and understand why and the most I found was 3-4 minute videos. Which all have the same plays on them. The guy just isn’t good. Never has been. Likely never will be. He could put up 200 yards this week and 6tds and I’ll still think he’s garbage that got lucky and had the game of his life. 

More than anything we wasted $9m over 2 years in him. $5m+ this year. We could have used that towards someone with some actual promise. Like a RT that everyone doesn’t hate. Or maybe used that money to attempt getting a real WR in here to help on offense. That money would have went a long way towards DHop at the time. Instead we got this lame duck 17th ranked punt returner. 

🤷🏻‍♂️ I googled deonte Harty highlights and the 5th video down was 20 minutes 

[mrags]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's the second hit searching Youtube for Deonte Harty.  2021 highlights. 20 min 22 sec.

 

He legit had a good 2021.  But there was always the question was that a fluke, and would he hold up.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

🤷🏻‍♂️ I googled deonte Harty highlights and the 5th video down was 20 minutes 

I appreciate what you guys are saying. What I’m saying is it wasn’t there when I went searching previously. I watched every 3-4 minute video he had out there. I mean, the guys got like 70 career receptions for just over 800 yards and 4 TDs in 4+ seasons. Did they seriously make a video of every catch he’s ever had? Lol. 
 

anyway, I appreciate the input. But I’m not going to watch it now. I tried before, didn’t see what anyone else did. Made up my mind and so far I’m being proven right that he’s a pile of hot garbage. I’ll just continue to keep thinking that. If I’m proven wrong by the end of the year you guys will be the first ones I admit to that I was soooooo wrong all along. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by mrags

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Process said:

Harty is very disappointing. Thought he would be a better McKenzie. Right now it looks like they are forcing him into the game plan because of his contract, and nothing they are trying is working. Luckily there is an out in his contract after this year. 

 

I think that if one of JSN/Addison/Flowers fell in the draft the Bills would have taken them. Unfortunate how it played out. I am happy with Dalton, but hopefully next year is the year they properly address the WR spot. 

 

Re Bernard...yea, he looks like a stud. Hopefully he keeps it up as we start facing tougher competition. What a nice surprise he has been.

Adonai Mitchell would fit perfectly with Diggs. Hoping he slips down in the 30s for the Bills to draft him

[Beck Water]

15 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

I appreciate what you guys are saying. What I’m saying is it wasn’t there when I went searching previously. I watched every 3-4 minute video he had out there. I mean, the guys got like 70 career receptions for just over 800 yards and 4 TDs in 4+ seasons. Did they seriously make a video of every catch he’s ever had? Lol. 
 

anyway, I appreciate the input. But I’m not going to watch it now. I tried before, didn’t see what anyone else did. Made up my mind and so far I’m being proven right that he’s a pile of hot garbage. I’ll just continue to keep thinking that. If I’m proven wrong by the end of the year you guys will be the first ones I admit to that I was soooooo wrong all along. 

 

Nah, not every catch he ever had, but basically, Harty had One Good Year.

 

I thought he legit looked good in that One Good Year, but I had big-ass concerns about that Best Ability, Availability.

 

The Bills training staff said to be very good, wonder if they are keeping him on the field through some injury and that's why he doesn't look as fast.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

I appreciate what you guys are saying. What I’m saying is it wasn’t there when I went searching previously. I watched every 3-4 minute video he had out there. I mean, the guys got like 70 career receptions for just over 800 yards and 4 TDs in 4+ seasons. Did they seriously make a video of every catch he’s ever had? Lol. 
 

anyway, I appreciate the input. But I’m not going to watch it now. I tried before, didn’t see what anyone else did. Made up my mind and so far I’m being proven right that he’s a pile of hot garbage. I’ll just continue to keep thinking that. If I’m proven wrong by the end of the year you guys will be the first ones I admit to that I was soooooo wrong all along. 

You’re safe with me.  I probably won’t remember.  I had forgotten that you didn’t like him this offseason. 
 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

It’s not a sore subject. I’m eating crow on it right now.  I’m extremely happy. I have no problem owning my misses and I’m transition from “being right” on a guy to “hellllll yeah let’s goooooooo” on a guy.  

so far, he's been more than either of us imagined

[DCofNC]

I never saw it w Harty, told everyone he was a McK all over again.. sorry I was spot on.

 

Bernard.. guess I’ll fire up the smoker bc I have crow to cook.  He’s playing well.

[GunnerBill]

I didn't need to watch highlight videos of Harty. I actually watched thebartist formerly known as Harris play in New Orleans. He has DEFINITELY lost some sped post his injuries. 

 

It isn't even in question to me. 

[JerseyBills]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

I hereby admit defeat in 2 proclamations I made this offseason.

 

1- Deonte Harty.  Dunno if it’s the superdome turf or the way the saints used him but it looks like he’s lost of juice.  He doesn’t look nearly as explosive as he in NO.  I’d hate to see him continue to get looks when he can’t get separation and can’t make anyone miss. Can Dorsey scheme this guy some space?  Maybe he plans of having him run some streaks to catch the D off guard? If not, he should be on the bench.  He doesn’t look to have “it”.  
 

It’s only 3 games…..but I don’t see how he’s going to all of a sudden be faster.  If he’s not faster than what we’re seeing, he’s a bust.  

 

2- Terrel Bernard-  I would’ve been happy if we traded him for a 6th rd pick a month ago.  I thought he was too small and weak for the part.  His college injury history (in addition to his size) was also a big flag. Suppose that will always be a worry.
 

I wanted to roll with Dorian Williams and let him play through his mistakes at the expense of our defense because i didn’t think Bernard had his upside. 
 

Through 3 games……. I feel like we have our Mike.  He flies to the ball.  He’s decisive.  He seems to be a solid wrap up tackler. He understands zone coverage very well and communicates it to his teammates.  I don’t have a lot of confidence in him replicating Sundays performance vs Miami, but I am confidant and happy that I was wrong about him.  
 

Are you ready to chow down on some crow?

I was and still am big on Harty. Cautiously optimistic he'll be a weapon within a few weeks 

 

Bernard just has instincts and needed that red shirt year to prepare for the role. His instincts just pop off the screen and Milano looks better than ever next to him..

What a great decision to let him walk 

Edited September 27, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Virgil]

Harry doesn’t surprise me at all. We couldn’t utilize McKenzie so I assumed this would be no different.  I saw nothing in camp or preseason to change my mind.  It’s a shame we gave him that contract.  There’s nothing Harry has done that Isabella couldn’t have done for a fraction of the price. 
 

Bernard, jury is still out for me. He’s had two great games and been in the right place to make plays.  I need to see more games from him, especially this weekend and KC.  Kid hasn’t been super tested yet.  

[stlbills13]

Guys I was wrong about in a good way: Bernard, Oliver, Dawkins

 

Guys I was wrong about in a bad way: Benford, Ford, Harty

[eball]

I didn’t have a strong opinion on Harty but he has definitely underwhelmed thus far.

 

I had no opinion on Bernard and was worried; I definitely wanted Kirksey in here.  Suffice it to say I’m very pleasantly surprised.

 

Davis had his nice TD, but not coming down with a 2nd Sunday and then dropping a big pass over the middle to kill a drive was disheartening.  I root for this guy and want him to succeed as a true #2 but the inconsistency keeps rearing its head.  That is probably my crow to eat.

 

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

Guys I was wrong about in a good way: Bernard, Oliver, Dawkins

 

Guys I was wrong about in a bad way: Benford, Ford, Harty

 

Ford?

 

And in what bad way were you wrong about Benford? He has been steady.

[stlbills13]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ford?

 

And in what bad way were you wrong about Benford? He has been steady.

I honestly thought Poona was going to be a stud run stuffer. Being a healthy scratch was disappointing. Benford has just been average to me. Fine but not at the level needed for a CB2 with the offenses we have to go through to win a Super Bowl. Good test for him on Sunday 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

I honestly thought Poona was going to be a stud run stuffer. Being a healthy scratch was disappointing. Benford has just been average to me. Fine but not at the level needed for a CB2 with the offenses we have to go through to win a Super Bowl. Good test for him on Sunday 

 

Ah Poona. Yes. Benford has been decent. Poona has sucked. 

[Irv]

Harty has been playing like Laurel and Harty.  Does the dude have a catch yet?

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I didn't need to watch highlight videos of Harty. I actually watched thebartist formerly known as Harris play in New Orleans. He has DEFINITELY lost some sped post his injuries. 

 

It isn't even in question to me. 

Thank you.  Now in feel better about my eye sight.  🍻 

[DisplacedBillsFan]

14 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Here's to hoping they take that Harty screen out of the playbook

Shakir needs some touches in space on things like screens and swing passes. Let’s make that happen instead of the Harry touches.

[Cash]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't know what to expect of Harty but I agree, he's been disappointing.   It might have something to do with Dorsey (sooner or later I always come back to Dorsey!).   A guy like Harty has to get the ball in stride and in space that allows get up to speed before he has to deal with tacklers.   Instead, he seems to get the same opportunities that didn't work for McKenzie, either.  

 

As for Bernard, I hate to bring up a sore subject, but I told you so.  I mean, I had the same doubts that many people had here.   What I also had, that many people didn't, is confidence in McDermott and Beane.  If Bernard were as bad as we thought he was, McDermott and Beane would have done something to get help.  They did nothing, and as I suspected, they did nothing because they knew the defense would be fine with Bernard in the middle.   They brought in Kirksey to be a veteran backup, not to take the starting job. 

 

Did I expect him to be the guy we saw on Sunday?  No.  The Cover One video breakdown of him shows some amazing talent, both physical and mental.  

 

I'm very much still not sold on Dorsey*.  Too small a sample size to draw a conclusion yet, but there's evidence that he might struggle with getting playmakers in space.  McKenzie was fairly disappointing last year, as was Nyheim Hines on offense.  Hines only got the ball on like 2 gimmick plays a game, and they almost never worked.  This year it's Harty only getting the ball on gimmick plays that don't work.  Whereas under Daboll, McKenzie mostly got the ball on gimmick plays, but they mostly worked.

 

Either we need better gimmick plays, or we need to find a way to get the ball to these guys as part of the normal offense.  I don't know how to do that, but that's okay because it's not my job.  It *is* Ken Dorsey's job, and it's fair to hold him to it.

 

 

*General note:  I worry that what someone heard was, "Dorsey sucks," but what I said was, "I'm not sold on Dorsey."  I don't think he sucks, or McDermott would've fired him after last year - plenty of promising candidates would want to run Josh Allen's offense.  But there's plenty of room for Dorsey to be Just Okay or A Little Below Average without being a net positive for the team.  Dorsey was not a net positive last year and I'm looking for improvement this year.  If I don't see it, I'll be a Fire Dorsey guy this offseason.  I expect that plenty of promising OC candidates would want to work with Josh Allen.

[ngbills]

Word is Harty had a very good 2021 and McK had a 2022 solidifying we need to get rid of him. I would argue the stats are not much different and even if they were exactly the same the narrative would be the same. Its the old "we know player x, we dont know new player y they just signed he must be awesome". 

 

2021 Harty = 36 rec, 570 yards, 3 TD, success rate 50%, 23 1st D

2022 McK = 42 rec, 433 yards, 4 TD, success rate 59%, 27 1st D

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Jet sweeps into the short side of the field really don't give the runner a chance to take advantage of their speed.  They need to stop doing it.  Hardy should be running crossing patterns and deeper routes to occupy safeties.  He still looks fast but he is not being used in ways to display that speed effectively.