Over-reaction Three Weeks In.... Offense seems disjointed

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And that is my concern (bold red) and hope it is just short-term and based on two "laughers".  

 

However if this is McD again holding him back, which yes I think he does (and yes my opinion) this will be an issue and usually is when playing quality opponents.

 

I don't think it is McD holding him back.  I see zero evidence to support that synopsis. I think Josh has to play better. It is one awful game, one great game, one average game. That pattern won't be enough.

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it is McD holding him back.  I see zero evidence to support that synopsis. I think Josh has to play better. It is one awful game, one great game, one average game. That pattern won't be enough.

I just don’t want them to peek too early like they did last year
 

Need momentum going into the playoffs

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it is McD holding him back.  I see zero evidence to support that synopsis. I think Josh has to play better. It is one awful game, one great game, one average game. That pattern won't be enough.

Yes I get it a fan of McD.....  Maybe the most polarizing Bill on TSW.  

 

I have openly admitted my concerns with him and while a very good coach, I have issues with some in game decisions (#never forget 13 seconds) and what I see is that he is not a coach who fully embraces the offense.

 

Just look at this thread and as soon as I mention McD the negative reactions/emojis fly.

 

As said in the OP I hope it is an over-reaction and Sunday definitely will be the test.  

[Ya Digg?]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes I get it a fan of McD.....  Maybe the most polarizing Bill on TSW.  

 

I have openly admitted my concerns with him and while a very good coach, I have issues with some in game decisions (#never forget 13 seconds) and what I see is that he is not a coach who fully embraces the offense.

 

Just look at this thread and as soon as I mention McD the negative reactions/emojis fly.

 

As said in the OP I hope it is an over-reaction and Sunday definitely will be the test.  

Your comments seem to be all over the place. You seem incredibly concerned about the offense but then say you don’t want them to peak too early. So to your OP just using your own thinking yes you are absolutely overreacting 

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Ya Digg? said:

Your comments seem to be all over the place. You seem incredibly concerned about the offense but then say you don’t want them to peak too early. So to your OP just using your own thinking yes you are absolutely overreacting 

I said nothing about peaking too early.  I want them to be great all year....  Frankly Allen and the offense haven't wowed me the first three weeks.  As said seems they are trying to rein in Allen, but again very early.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes I get it a fan of McD.....  Maybe the most polarizing Bill on TSW.  

 

I have openly admitted my concerns with him and while a very good coach, I have issues with some in game decisions (#never forget 13 seconds) and what I see is that he is not a coach who fully embraces the offense.

 

Just look at this thread and as soon as I mention McD the negative reactions/emojis fly.

 

As said in the OP I hope it is an over-reaction and Sunday definitely will be the test.  

 

That doesn't address the point. What evidence do you have that suggests he "holds Josh back?"

 

In game decisions is different. There is some merit to that. What is your evidence for him holding Josh Allen back?  

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That doesn't address the point. What evidence do you have that suggests he "holds Josh back?"

 

In game decisions is different. There is some merit to that. What is your evidence for him holding Josh Allen back?  

There is none.  The real question to be asked is this:  if you know you're overreacting, then why start the thread to begin with?

[Ya Digg?]

20 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I said nothing about peaking too early.  I want them to be great all year....  Frankly Allen and the offense haven't wowed me the first three weeks.  As said seems they are trying to rein in Allen, but again very early.

You’re right my bad, I read the comment above yours and linked it with yours. First week I will give you, offense looked terrible. Don’t know how you watched the second game and weren’t impressed by the offense. Third week they were fine but they didn’t need to wow anyone. I would rather they have that game plan and not give too much to Miami to look at 

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That doesn't address the point. What evidence do you have that suggests he "holds Josh back?"

 

In game decisions is different. There is some merit to that. What is your evidence for him holding Josh Allen back?  

What I see and a gut feeling and what I've read and heard from McD and how he views offense.  

 

Oh and 100's of Threads here saying similar.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What I see and a gut feeling and what I've read and heard from McD and how he views offense.  

 

Oh and 100's of Threads here saying similar.

 

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What I see and a gut feeling and what I've read and heard from McD and how he views offense.  

 

Oh and 100's of Threads here saying similar.

 

Which 100s of threads? 

 

The gut feeling from McDermott saying after Sunday "we want Josh to be himself" and then Monday "we don't want to be a conservative football team."

 

McDermott has never said anything that leads one to believe he reigns Josh in - EXCEPT for in his running. He is the guy who has frequently told Josh that he has to let it rip. 

 

It is just an unsubstantiated gut feeling.

Edited September 27, 2023 by GunnerBill

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And that is my concern (bold red) and hope it is just short-term and based on two "laughers".  

 

However if this is McD again holding him back, which yes I think he does (and yes my opinion) this will be an issue and usually is when playing quality opponents.

I think part of it is the talent level behind Diggs and how teams are playing us. McD and Dorsey stressing on it because pushing the ball downfield with inconsistent players will lead to more turnovers. Josh gotta be a surgeon out there pretty much all the time. 
 

Maybe someone will step up as the year goes on. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by BananaB

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What I see and a gut feeling and what I've read and heard from McD and how he views offense.  

 

Oh and 100's of Threads here saying similar.

 

Do you purposely misconstrue everything?

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

I think part of it is the talent level behind Diggs and how teams are playing us. McD and Dorsey stressing on it because pushing the ball downfield with inconsistent players will lead to more turnovers. Josh gotta be a surgeon out there pretty much all the time. 

 

I'm not sure this is the case at all.  We threw it deep twice to Davis last game.  

 

We are telling Allen to not force things and play hero ball.  Not saying you but some people are taking this as "McDermott wants to muzzle Allen".

No, that's not it at all.  If it's 3rd and 2, throwing it to the open WR underneath and not force it into double coverage for an INT.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Great use of stats and analysis. 

 

It feel like it's difficult to win playing offense this way. The Bills seemingly struggle to move the ball in chunks. They seem to be a short passing team with a good running game.  Just seems like old school football rather than modern day football. Can they sustain winning like this? Is this the new offensive of the Bills? 

 

I want to see an explosive offense that can score quickly or on one play. I'm just not seeing that after a short 3 game sample. This offense seems nothing like the offense of a couple of years ago. 

 

If teams are going to sit in 2 high looks all game long, you have to be able to do it this way.  As Manning once said - run them out of cover 2.  

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you purposely misconstrue everything?

 

I'm not sure this is the case at all.  We threw it deep twice to Davis last game.  

 

We are telling Allen to not force things and play hero ball.  Not saying you but some people are taking this as "McDermott wants to muzzle Allen".

No, that's not it at all.  If it's 3rd and 2, throwing it to the open WR underneath and not force it into double coverage for an INT.

If the guys can’t be trusted to make a play you can’t keep throwing it deep. The second pass the Gabe was on 3rd and 20 and the INT switched the field possession. It’s a very low risk throw.  To be honest if Gabe didn’t drop the pass thrown to him before that, which was a pretty easy catch we would not of been in that position 

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

If the guys can’t be trusted to make a play you can’t keep throwing it deep. The second pass the Gabe was on 3rd and 20 and the INT switched the field possession. It’s a very low risk throw.  To be honest if Gabe didn’t drop the pass thrown to him before that, which was a pretty easy catch we would not of been in that position 

I like Gabe being a hard worker. He's had a few big games. It's clear he's not a very good WR2. His rookie contract ends and I'll be happy when he moves on. He's not worth WR2 money 

 

Too early to talk about next year. The Bills are going to need some better WRs for sure. 

[Royale with Cheese]

21 minutes ago, BananaB said:

If the guys can’t be trusted to make a play you can’t keep throwing it deep. The second pass the Gabe was on 3rd and 20 and the INT switched the field possession. It’s a very low risk throw.  To be honest if Gabe didn’t drop the pass thrown to him before that, which was a pretty easy catch we would not of been in that position 

 

I think Allen has trust, which is why he throws deep.  He throws deep more than any QB in the game.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What I see and a gut feeling and what I've read and heard from McD and how he views offense.  

 

Oh and 100's of Threads here saying similar.

 

I agreed somewhat with your thread but this I don't agree with.  McD isn't conservative and I don't think he is holding Josh back. The only thing McD wants to that effect is for Josh to be smart and slide or get out of bounds when he runs and for Josh to make better decisions than throwing into double coverage when he doesn't have to.  Otherwise I think McD wants Josh to lead a high powered offense.  He may want some run game so the opposing D can't pin their ears back but thats just smart.

[GoBills808]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it is McD holding him back.  I see zero evidence to support that synopsis. I think Josh has to play better. It is one awful game, one great game, one average game. That pattern won't be enough.

Tyler Dunne doesn't agree

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/free-josh-allen

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Tyler Dunne doesn't agree

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/free-josh-allen

 

He doesn't say McDermott is holding him back. 

 

McDermott has said exactly what Dunne is saying there. The Bills need Josh to be himself. 

 

They do not need "sedated Josh" as he puts it. I think anyone arguing that ia what they need is wrong.

Edited September 27, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He doesn't say McDermott is holding him back. 

 

McDermott has said exactly what Dunne is saying there. The Bills need Josh to be himself. 

 

They do not need "sedated Josh" as he puts it. I think anyone arguing that ia what they need is wrong.

When vs. LV they started the game with two straight runs up the middle for 1-2 yards, then you put Allen behind the 8-ball and again take a look at the first half vs. Washington and how many bad positions Allen was put in thanks to runs and bad plays on first & second down.  

 

This has been mentioned many times in this thread, but conveniently ignored by some.

 

Vs. LV too it was close to being 10 or 14-0 until a TO by Jimmy G the second possession.   

 

McD can say what he wants, but the play calling states otherwise in many ways.  

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When vs. LV they started the game with two straight runs up the middle for 1-2 yards, then you put Allen behind the 8-ball and again take a look at the first half vs. Washington and how many bad positions Allen was put in thanks to runs and bad plays on first & second down.  

 

This has been mentioned many times in this thread, but conveniently ignored by some.

 

Vs. LV too it was close to being 10 or 14-0 until a TO by Jimmy G the second possession.   

 

McD can say what he wants, but the play calling states otherwise in many ways.  

 

What so because they opened the game with two runs it means they are reigning Josh in? Oh come off it you are talking utter crap.

 

EDIT: and "close to 14-0" means intercepted at his own 30 yard line. A mere 70 yards away from the Bills endzone. Though what that even has to do with reigning in Josh I have no idea.

Edited September 27, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Royale with Cheese]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:11 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

It is what a lot of the uber critics here do. They say "ah yes the way it happened was okay... but what if it hadn't happened that way? What if they'd been worse? Then it would have been bad wouldn't it? See there's your proof."

 

It is the most batshit crazy way of engaging in debate.

 

I wonder if Giants fans discount their first Super Bowl win against the Pats?  "Yeah but it took a David Tyree miracle to win that game.  We had to rely on a miracle to win that game because Coughlin holds the team back."

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He doesn't say McDermott is holding him back. 

 

McDermott has said exactly what Dunne is saying there. The Bills need Josh to be himself. 

 

They do not need "sedated Josh" as he puts it. I think anyone arguing that ia what they need is wrong.

"Instead, Allen opted to do exactly what all of America (including his head coach) has been scream-scolding him not to. He improvised. "

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

"Instead, Allen opted to do exactly what all of America (including his head coach) has been scream-scolding him not to. He improvised. "

 

I missed that line. Fair enough. But I would ask Dunne what his evidence for that assertion is. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I missed that line. Fair enough. But I would ask Dunne what his evidence for that assertion is. 

I've questioned his motives in the past but not his accuracy

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I've questioned his motives in the past but not his accuracy

 

But there is zero evidence for that assertion. If he means his Head Coach has told him he has to stop turning the ball over I am sure that is true. Beyond that he has nothing.

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

But there is zero evidence for that assertion. If he means his Head Coach has told him he has to stop turning the ball over I am sure that is true. Beyond that he has nothing.

So because it's in direct conflict w your point it's fake news

 

weren't you just criticizing some other guy for having a crap argument lol

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So because it's in direct conflict w your point it's fake news

 

weren't you just criticizing some other guy for having a crap argument lol

 

It isn't even news. It is a totally unsupported line. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't even news. It is a totally unsupported line. 

so fake news

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

What so because they opened the game with two runs it means they are reigning Josh in? Oh come off it you are talking utter crap.

When anyone watching on TV with the Bills down 7-0 could see (and no I'm not a coach) that it was going to be a run the first two plays and no disguising it, that to me were two wasted downs and a 3 & out.  

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

so fake news

 

Not even that.

[GoBills808]

'theres no evidence to support this'

 

*sees evidence

 

'...that's unsupported!'

 

too funny

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When anyone watching on TV with the Bills down 7-0 could see (and no I'm not a coach) that it was going to be a run the first two plays and no disguising it, that to me were two wasted downs and a 3 & out.  

 

 

Ah any run is a wasted down. Got it. 

Just now, GoBills808 said:

'theres no evidence to support this'

 

*sees evidence

 

'...that's unsupported!'

 

too funny

 

There is no evidence. There is a throw away line in parenthesis from a journo that you are interpreting.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When anyone watching on TV with the Bills down 7-0 could see (and no I'm not a coach) that it was going to be a run the first two plays and no disguising it, that to me were two wasted downs and a 3 & out.  

 

 

You don't believe in a 4 quarter game.  

[Xwnyer]

its the genius of Dorsey not showing an in synch offense with new great designed plays to get receivers open and hit in stride.   

[Billsfan1972]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

'theres no evidence to support this'

 

*sees evidence

 

'...that's unsupported!'

 

too funny

Fake News = Trump & his Supporters????🤣 

[Mikie2times]

I've been pretty vocal about Josh needing to dial back the mistakes, but really starting to turn to the view of "F" it, we live in die with this man being a gunslinger. We just don't have an offense that can dink and dunk. It's not who we are. If Josh plays free (whether that freedom is based on his own mindset or potential restraints he has) our volatility will increase, but our top output will also increase. Just some rando thoughts for the day. Cheerio. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Billsfan1972]

45 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You don't believe in a 4 quarter game.  

Now I see that those runs were designed to make LV think twice in the 4th quarter. 

 

e get it the Bills steamrolled them.  

 

The Bills were down 7-0 and came out with 3 uninspired plays to start the game and it was all a ruse.😉 

 

Again I was playing checkers and McD was playing Chess 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[RunTheBall]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

I've been pretty vocal about Josh needing to dial back the mistakes, but really starting to turn to the view of "F" it, we live in die with this man being a gunslinger. We just don't have an offense that can dink and dunk. It's not who we are. If Josh plays free (whether that freedom is based on his own mindset or potential restraints he has) our volatility will increase, but our top output will also increase. Just some rando thoughts for the day. Cheerio. 

This is exactly what teams who play a 2-high shell with 7 defenders (rushing 4) want Josh to think. The deep balls are covered, the intermediate balls require precision and we've got only 1 guy right now (Diggs) who's getting separation regularly and catching the ball. This is where Davis / Knox / Kincaid should be used with play action. We should be running the sht out of the ball into light boxes and hitting slants/quick WR screens/TE chips to the flat. If you are successful the D adjusts and now the deep/intermediate shots are more open