Was Josh Playing Hero Ball or Was i Imagining Things ?/

[T master]

I'm looking for some help here from y'all that watched the game . I listened more to the game than watched it which could be fortunate or unfortunate . But after the game i have been able to watch some of the replay's & there were a couple of things i did notice about the way Josh saw the field .

 

There were more than 1 time that i saw Josh on some of his bad throws especially that he threw down the field on his INT's . He had guys open underneath and on at least one play i saw Knox & Diggs open for a easy first down yet Josh was going down town for the big play. His hero ball thing took over i think .

 

I seem to remember last season at the being of the year Josh was taking what the D was giving him he would be doing the dink & dunk passes & it was like our offense couldn't be stopped . Then as the year went on he got back to the Hero ball in some games & those were the few that we lost .

 

I don't have access to the all 22 thing (mainly because i'm cheap) so i can't really tell if from what little i can see if that is in fact what Josh was doing . On 1 Bills live Browny had made mention about some similar things he did & Orlovsky seemed to think Josh was out of control certain times in the game .

 

And being that i couldn't actually sit & watch the game & only listened for a short time i would like you input .

 

Then to add to it there was the fact that i saw Spenser Brown getting pushed back on some plays that i did happen to see and pretty regularly . The guy on the Jets was making it look easy even as big as Brown is, It looked as if it may be time to try someone else at that position if what i saw was correct & if that's the way he will be this season .

 

Let me know if i was seeing what i thought i saw on those replays from y'all that actually sat & watched the entire game . And if there is already a post similar to this i apologize ... GO BILLS !!! 

[BillsFan130]

Listen to Joe Marino on locked on bills if you have some time.

 

He did a fantastic break down on Josh and the rest of the offence/defence.

 

Long story short though: Yes he was not taking what was there and passed on a lot of check downs

[Lost]

Short answer yes.   Early on he was making quick reads and checking down often.  As the game progressed he started locking on to his deeper targets more.  He got bored playing the short game and couldn't control himself.  

[Punching Bag]

When things stopped working he went back to "hero ball" making long throws when the Bills could not make multiple plays to advance down field.  This resulted in interceptions which put more stress on defense.

[HOUSE]

Yes, It was definitely HERO BALL

But if the Bills would somehow score more points in the 1st half rather than blowing opportunities Josh wouldn't be in that mess.

Ok, I am done complaining for this week. Thank you

Edited September 13, 2023 by HOUSE

[Straight Hucklebuck]

It's the same story as last year. 

 

Fans and WGR blame Ken Dorsey for not enough easy button throws. 

 

Then the All-22 comes out and wait a minute there are tons of easy throws built in, heck the Bills played 12 personnel all night. 

 

But Allen said it last year: the dink and dunk is nice, but eventually I want to make plays. 

 

He's not patient, he's not deliberate, he's not methodical, he's not disciplined. And with this WR group with zero vertical speed, it's a bad combination. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Yes Josh must be weened off Hero ball. And because of some possible ego issues,  this won't be an easy task.  Spencer Brown is terrible and nothing has changed.  He's clearly our weakest olineman. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes Josh must be weened off Hero ball. And because of some possible ego issues,  this won't be an easy task.  Spencer Brown is terrible and nothing has changed.  He's clearly our weakest olineman. 

While we agree on Brown, he was NOT the reason that Allen made some of the oddest decisions I’ve ever seen from a ‘franchise’ QB. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

While we agree on Brown, he was NOT the reason that Allen made some of the oddest decisions I’ve ever seen from a ‘franchise’ QB. 

I never said Spencer was the reason Josh reverted to bad decisions.  But besides Torrence, our OL still looks mediocre and this will have some impact on Josh's behavior.  Josh needs to get out of his own head and start fixing what he knows needs self-correcting.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I never said Spencer was the reason Josh reverted to bad decisions.  But besides Torrence, our OL still looks mediocre and this will have some impact on Josh's behavior.  Josh needs to get out of his own head and start fixing what he knows needs self-correcting.

I’m with ya there….and I’d take a serious look at Morse. He got beat massively on a few rushes right up the middle. I’ve gotta believe this is his last year. 

[Drew21PA]

He was playing stupid - call it whatever you want 

[NoSaint]

It felt like he thought he had to outpace Rodgers against a bills defense with question marks

 

unfortunately he did not adjust the mindset when the game changed drastically

 

 

[MJS]

I don't think it was hero ball. I think he was uncomfortable, confused, and wild. It was different than wanting to make a big play and putting the team on his back. He was just rattled for some reason.

 

I don't think overconfidence had much to do with it.

[SoCal Deek]

“Hero ball” is definitely the wrong term. You don’t need a hero when you’ve been ahead the entire game! Josh was reckless and selfish. If you fumble the shotgun snap on a meaningless down deep in your own territory, you simply fall on the freaking ball! Period. 

[Airseven]

It wasn’t “hero ball.” “Hero ball” is a backhanded compliment as if he was trying to carry the team. He was confused and panicked. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Jets D is in his head. Move on to this week. He will be fine. He has a bad game or two or three every year and bounces back. 

[NyQuil]

He was.  Against one of the best defenses in the NFL check downs are usually your best bet.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

It's the same story as last year. 

 

Fans and WGR blame Ken Dorsey for not enough easy button throws. 

 

Then the All-22 comes out and wait a minute there are tons of easy throws built in, heck the Bills played 12 personnel all night. 

 

But Allen said it last year: the dink and dunk is nice, but eventually I want to make plays. 

 

 This is why a number of fans call Josh selfish and it certainly is as a team leader you should always choose what is best for the whole team not  well I don't like  this and I don't like that.   Then after your contract is up go grow your melons and leave  the game to those who are serious about wanting to be successful as a team.  I'm not a Brady fan, because he was on the wrong team.  He always did seem to put the interests of team above his own.  Easy to demand better when u do your part as well.  Josh wants to recreate things he's already done.  The reason those plays were  WOW in the first place was they weren't done before.  Just like I have flown in airplanes before so I wouldn't be excited as if it were my first flight.  Now if I somehow did something that warranted getting say a  chance to go up in a fighter plane  that I worked on as a airman in air force you bet I'd be excited about that even having flown in other pksnes before.  Just different.  But yawn on any other standard flight.

 

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He's not patient, he's not deliberate, he's not methodical, he's not disciplined. And with this WR group with zero vertical speed, it's a bad combination. 

That's where it is up to the coaches to do their job.  The coaches are responsible to the entire team and can't cater to Josh  irregardless of him being a major reason the team is successful.  Josh gets his rewards in getting a kings ransom in pay and he basically could ask for a free meal anywhere there are any Bills Mafia.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

Let me know if i was seeing what i thought i saw on those replays from y'all that actually sat & watched the entire game . And if there is already a post similar to this i apologize ... GO BILLS !!! 

If you would have bothered to scan the 1st page, you’d know there are many topics on this subject. Apology not accepted

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, T master said:

I'm looking for some help here from y'all that watched the game . I listened more to the game than watched it which could be fortunate or unfortunate . But after the game i have been able to watch some of the replay's & there were a couple of things i did notice about the way Josh saw the field .

 

There were more than 1 time that i saw Josh on some of his bad throws especially that he threw down the field on his INT's . He had guys open underneath and on at least one play i saw Knox & Diggs open for a easy first down yet Josh was going down town for the big play. His hero ball thing took over i think .

 

I seem to remember last season at the being of the year Josh was taking what the D was giving him he would be doing the dink & dunk passes & it was like our offense couldn't be stopped . Then as the year went on he got back to the Hero ball in some games & those were the few that we lost .

 

I don't have access to the all 22 thing (mainly because i'm cheap) so i can't really tell if from what little i can see if that is in fact what Josh was doing . On 1 Bills live Browny had made mention about some similar things he did & Orlovsky seemed to think Josh was out of control certain times in the game .

 

And being that i couldn't actually sit & watch the game & only listened for a short time i would like you input .

 

Then to add to it there was the fact that i saw Spenser Brown getting pushed back on some plays that i did happen to see and pretty regularly . The guy on the Jets was making it look easy even as big as Brown is, It looked as if it may be time to try someone else at that position if what i saw was correct & if that's the way he will be this season .

 

Let me know if i was seeing what i thought i saw on those replays from y'all that actually sat & watched the entire game . And if there is already a post similar to this i apologize ... GO BILLS !!! 

 

Yes, Josh was playing "hero ball" or "getting impatient" or whatever you want to call it.

[Joe Ferguson]

Maybe Josh is trying to impress his new girlfriend and it backfired big time. That is one ***** performance and I hope he doesn't do that again.

[LarryMadman]

Nope not playing hero ball at all, Josh was playing stupid ball!

[Livinginthepast]

What was disturbing to me is that Hero ball usually starts if the Bills are down. This started when we were in the lead. It was as if he defaulted to it the second he got frustrated. Maybe he didnt like Dorsey's calls or maybe he rashly decided not to wait for the schemes to develop. Either way he dove straight into the deep end  of the Hero ball pool!

[All_Pro_Bills]

Josh was reckless and undisciplined.  Purposely and knowingly ignoring the risks and consequences of some act.  Like throwing the ball into double & triple coverage.  You know it's a bad idea, it's something that shouldn't be done unless it's desperation time, but you do it anyway.  It's some kind of behavioral issue or defect in his thought process.  He might need counseling or therapy, or the team needs to hire a behavior psychologist.  Whatever the coaches and teammates are saying isn't working.

 

Now we get to hear I can't let that happen and I've got to play smart and not let the team down.  Does anybody believe a word of that?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

29 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

 This is why a number of fans call Josh selfish and it certainly is as a team leader you should always choose what is best for the whole team not  well I don't like  this and I don't like that.   Then after your contract is up go grow your melons and leave  the game to those who are serious about wanting to be successful as a team.  I'm not a Brady fan, because he was on the wrong team.  He always did seem to put the interests of team above his own.  Easy to demand better when u do your part as well.  Josh wants to recreate things he's already done.  The reason those plays were  WOW in the first place was they weren't done before.  Just like I have flown in airplanes before so I wouldn't be excited as if it were my first flight.  Now if I somehow did something that warranted getting say a  chance to go up in a fighter plane  that I worked on as a airman in air force you bet I'd be excited about that even having flown in other pksnes before.  Just different.  But yawn on any other standard flight.

 

That's where it is up to the coaches to do their job.  The coaches are responsible to the entire team and can't cater to Josh  irregardless of him being a major reason the team is successful.  Josh gets his rewards in getting a kings ransom in pay and he basically could ask for a free meal anywhere there are any Bills Mafia.

He says all the right things at the podium, but come Sunday I expect Gabe Davis to be playing 99% of snaps again, not getting open, Spencer Brown being put on ice skates, and if he's trying to go to anyone but Diggs, Knox or Kincaid, it's eventually going to be a turnover. 

 

When you look at the who the Bills are paying skill wise: Diggs should be getting 20 targets a game, then Knox and Kincaid combine for 15, and everyone else should split 8 targets. 

 

That's your 40-45 attempts per game, but targeting guys this team has actually invested in. 

 

12 attempts to Cook, 5 for Josh, 3 to Harris, 3 to Murray. There is your 60 plays a game. 

 

Will Josh accept a shorter more disciplined passing game? The answer so far has been no and the rest of the NFL is not scared come Playoff time of Diggs, and a bunch of short area WRs. 2019 Josh showed he can do it but they also had better line play back then as well. 

[AuntieEm]

I hope that the team as a whole just decided they'd let the Jets game be a sacrifice bunt so to speak let dcs think Josh is easily rattled into 4 ints  losing games....  don't worry about the tes he won't take the easy dink dunks  so why waste their dbs on those when u can surround the player the ball will be going to increasing ur pick potential.

 

If the team is playing chess then sacrificing a game to have opponents thinking  they do this and Josh will cave and instead  Josh starts drinking dunking to his new  te bookends and it is unstoppable then the one loss to Jets is not  gonna hurt  the team.  It may have dcs thinking we just need to rattle Josh into mistakes  we win.  If they can't rattle him then the Bills basically win easy.   So I'm hoping they decided as Buffalo good neighbors to give the Jets the first game to cause this new speculation that Josh just doesn't have what it takes he just luckedvinto wins before on the strength of element of surprise rathervthsn talent.  For someone who is of above average intelligence to be so stubborn about not learning  the fundamentals is just unfathomable so I'm gonna chase to think this was just to throw future games DC plans on the wrong path to make Bills wins to be much easier.

Edited September 13, 2023 by AuntieEm

[LabattBlue]

People need to stop with the hero ball and Favre comparisons.  It was dumb football.  Period. 

[AuntieEm]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

People need to stop with the hero ball and Favre comparisons.  It was dumb football.  Period. 

Yea not a huge fan of Favre.  Don't hate the guy just don't think he was that great.  Lucked into being on the right team at right time and every thing clicked.  

[KOKBILLS]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Listen to Joe Marino on locked on bills if you have some time.

 

He did a fantastic break down on Josh and the rest of the offence/defence.

 

Long story short though: Yes he was not taking what was there and passed on a lot of check downs

 

Exactly... Joe basically said it may have been more frustrating looking back at what Josh chose not to do, then what he actually did...

[sven233]

What Allen has to realize is that the minute he learns how to be patient and take the free cheese underneath every time, it will be the moment he will become unstoppable.  Right now, teams are sitting back daring him to take wide open 6 yard gains all the way down the field.  They know he will become impatient and throw one that they will have a chance at.  They just don't believe he will be patient enough to take 12 plays to score a TD.  But, if Allen figures it out, and he does take these short throws regularly, teams will be forced to come up to defend those and all of a sudden, the deeper shots will be there.

 

Allen wants it all.  And he can have it all.  But he needs to prove it to other teams that he will do what it takes to earn it.

[KOKBILLS]

7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

People need to stop with the hero ball and Favre comparisons.  It was dumb football.  Period. 

 

This is probably the take I agree with most. I hate it because man do I love Josh Allen. But it's the truth...

[T master]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

If you would have bothered to scan the 1st page, you’d know there are many topics on this subject. Apology not accepted

 

Well like i said i apologize but you will either get over it or you'll carry it. 

[T master]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Jets D is in his head. Move on to this week. He will be fine. He has a bad game or two or three every year and bounces back. 

 

I am hoping exactly the same thing being the first game of the season with all the new pieces acquired over the off season . I just hope that this game was the one to knock off the rust and get all the guys attention & learn from it moving ahead .