Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Personally, I never saw it as a real possibility.  His contract is too big for our cap.

 

No team that Dhop would want to play for has a ton of cap space. The Bills and KC are near the bottom of the league in terms of cap space. Baltimore has about 12 million in space not that much to work with. 
 

Even second tier teams like Miami and The Browns aren’t flushed with cap space. Only eight teams have more than 20 million in cap space and one of them is Arizona. Most of those other 7 teams are not appealing situations other than maybe Dallas. 
 

So It will come down to how big is the difference between the offers and what Dhop will want more cash or a better shot at contention? The Bills still in the mix in my opinion 

[BillsFanForever19]

10 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I think the Bills will need to consider future dead cap charges for restructuring. Hyde is older and coming off an injury, and given the safety market this past offseason I think they just let Hyde’s deal play out rather than go for short term cap help.

 

Tre is another one I think they don’t restructure as they likely want to keep the flexibility of being able to cut him if he can’t come back from his injury. Right now the dead cap on Tre for 2024 is already large at 10 million but it still provides some savings opening up 6 million in space and the dead cap in 2025 the last year of Tre’s deal is fairly minimal. 
 

But Dawkins would be a solid option to free up some space as he is fairly young doesn’t have a major injury history and doesn’t have too many years left on his deal.

 

A D Jones extension is a toss up. Jones is 31 at a position where 31 is not ancient but is not young either. He doesn’t have an injury history and the Bills only have one other DT on the roster signed for next season. But the Bills might want to keep their options open as Poona Ford who will be 29 in 2024 with less years in the league may be a better use of cap dollars?

 

Based on my own opinion they won’t touch the Tre and Hyde deals but they will do Dawkins and could go either way on Jones. 
 

Good to know if the need a little more space for another move they can find It

 

The only thing I see on this list as something I'd expect is a Tre White restructure. He has looked really impressive in OTA's so the team has been looking into the condition of his knee heavily. Only reason I see them doing that following rave reviews is that they feel comfortable enough to play with his contract, which would make it more difficult to get out of.

 

On the flip side of that coin is Dawkins. Dawkin's isn't a terrible LT. But he hasn't played up to his contract and last year was his worst year. He only has this year and next year left on his deal. They may want to try and get out of that contract as simply as they can after 2024 or possibly even after this year if he regresses more. I don't think it's a coincidence that amongst the many restructures they've done already, Dion hasn't been one of them.

 

I also wouldn't expect a Daquan Jones extension until late in this season or after it. They decided that Ed Oliver was the priority to get done. I'd expect they wait until they see how Poona Ford plays for us, how Jordan Phillips returns after being oft-injired last season, and who stays healthy before committing to a 2nd DT long term.

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, jaybills said:

Now, we have to make moves just to roster the guys we currently have. What am I missing? How are we still in play for Dhop?

Look.. I’m not saying that they plan to do this… but they have not exhausted every option to free up money to sign D hop if they wanted too… ( Tre, Dawkins and Jones signing an extension..) they did a deal for Von last year which cost them $5m on the cap… and Dhop won’t be getting paid like Von…

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Took the time to transcribe the actual quotes from today's presser with Beane re: The Cap:

 

Q: What's your cap situation?

 

Beane: My cap situation? You would me ask that, Adam. I've been doing a lot of things. I think we're around just over 4. But that's Top 51. Without going through a 20 minute lecture here, Top 51 versus doing some projections with Kevin and Jim. I'm going to guess with adding Leonard we're going to be minus 3-5. Somewhere in there. I haven't done that in the last day, but somewhere in that. So projecting how we would cut, that's no injuries, we're still going to have to do some moves at some point to create more room. So even though today on the Top 51 we have, I believe a little over 4 - we really don't. Just knowing who we think has the best chance to make our roster and how guarantees are shaped and all that, i'd say it's going to be somewhere between 3 and 5 (over the cap).

 

Q: How much flexibility to do something significant beyond this? 

 

*Beane shakes head 'no'*

 

Q: You said you're still going to look, but nothing significant?

 

A: I'm going to look and if someone wants to come for cheap, come on down.

 

 

The talk of "something significant" was clearly to me the reporter asking about Hopkins without directly doing so and Beane's response to me was clearly a message to Hopkins.

 

So if Hopkins wants to come cheap, "come on down". As I've said from the get go, he's going to have to come around to our offer. And likely, that isn't going to happen unless his market is dry and he decides to take a 1 year prove it deal with a winning team to improve his stock for next season.

 

That's ultimately where I feel Beane is at. If Hopkins wants to play with Josh, he'll have to take a team friendly deal knowing where we're at financially. If he doesn't, he doesn't need to have him with what he's already done this offseason.

 

 

How many times is Beane going to tell you he can't make moves.........and then just keep making them.........before you realize that he's utterly full of sh!t and wants it that way?   There is zero upside to telling the Bills fanbase and media that there is any way he can find more money to make moves.   This dates back to the offseason after 2020 and has never changed.   His mantra is always "I don't expect big moves, we don't have much cap space, yada yada".   

 

It's NOT a cap problem.   Von Miller's $20M aav deal had a $5M cap hit last year.   They could have and still CAN get DHop in if they want.   

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

How many times is Beane going to tell you he can't make moves.........and then just keep making them.........before you realize that he's utterly full of sh!t and wants it that way?   There is zero upside to telling the Bills fanbase and media that there is any way he can find more money to make moves.   This dates back to the offseason after 2020 and has never changed.   His mantra is always "I don't expect big moves, we don't have much cap space, yada yada".   

 

It's NOT a cap problem.   Von Miller's $20M aav deal had a $5M cap hit last year.   They could have and still CAN get DHop in if they want.   

 

So angry.....

 

Yes, he did start last offseason saying he wouldn't be making any big splashes and then made it happen with Von in the first few days of FA. That is a thing that happened. And because that happened, people who want their shiny toys whenever like to say that he's always "full of sh!t" and cite it and it alone incessantly.

 

The fact remains the same, however. He clearly does not want to break the bank for Hopkins. He's trying to get him at his price, if he's really trying to get him at all. If he was as important to him as you and other fans say he should be to Beane, if the cap doesn't exist and money is no issue, and Hopkins wants to play for us as bad as everyone thinks - this would be done by now and there'd be no need for hardball.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

So angry.....

 

Yes, he did start last offseason saying he wouldn't be making any big splashes and then made it happen with Von in the first few days of FA. That is a thing that happened. And because that happened, people who want their shiny toys whenever like to say that he's always "full of sh!t" and cite it and it alone incessantly.

 

The fact remains the same, however. He clearly does not want to break the bank for Hopkins. He's trying to get him at his price, if he's really trying to get him at all. If he was as important to him as you and other fans say he should be to Beane, if the cap doesn't exist and money is no issue, and Hopkins wants to play for us as bad as everyone thinks - this would be done by now and there'd be no need for hardball.

Until he signs elsewhere, I’m not going to discount him coming here…

 

Beane can make it happen if he chooses…

[PrimeTime101]

7 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Until he signs elsewhere, I’m not going to discount him coming here…

 

Beane can make it happen if he chooses…

On that same note.. I would not be upset if it does not happen either. ... it is what it is lol

[BillsFanForever19]

18 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Until he signs elsewhere, I’m not going to discount him coming here…

 

Beane can make it happen if he chooses…

 

I'm not saying it can't happen or it won't happen.

 

I'm saying that he seems to be letting everyone know that much like it was with Leonard Floyd - it's on Hopkins to come around to the deal he's offering (if there's indeed one on the table).

 

He's not going to get into a bidding war and he's not going to overpay. Much like Floyd, if Hopkins wants to come here, he's going to have to turn down less money from another team or teams. 

 

It has to work for Beane and the balancing of his checkbook. And from the sounds of it, he seems to feel that someone is going to offer something that Hopkins won't turn down to come here.

Edited June 7, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Punching Bag]

On 6/5/2023 at 5:16 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes had two players that were among the best at their position on his offense (Kelce and Humphrey), and a top 2 play caller. Allen had one player like that and a rookie play caller. Is it so much to ask for the help given to Allen to be at least equivalent to the help given to Mahomes?

 

Hard to get equivalent to a top 2 play caller - it would mean the top 1 would need to want to leave current job to come here. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

So angry.....

 

Yes, he did start last offseason saying he wouldn't be making any big splashes and then made it happen with Von in the first few days of FA. That is a thing that happened. And because that happened, people who want their shiny toys whenever like to say that he's always "full of sh!t" and cite it and it alone incessantly.

 

The fact remains the same, however. He clearly does not want to break the bank for Hopkins. He's trying to get him at his price, if he's really trying to get him at all. If he was as important to him as you and other fans say he should be to Beane, if the cap doesn't exist and money is no issue, and Hopkins wants to play for us as bad as everyone thinks - this would be done by now and there'd be no need for hardball.

 

 

It's not anger.........it's just being blunt and matter of fact.    You crafting an argument around Von Miller being the only significant move they've made since last January is laughable.   They've extended Knox and Oliver.....2 players they didn't HAVE to re-sign at all costs..........to the tune of $110M alone since then.  And they have made a heap of mid-level moves and re-structures that probably pushes another $100M in potential future commitments.    Open your eyes. 

 

Obviously everyone that is interested in Hopkins is trying to negotiate the best deal they can get and nobody is going to "break the bank" for him like I presume you believe the Bills did with Von Miller at 6yr/$120M.    He is likely to get a 2-3 year deal and it likely won't be at a figure the Bills couldn't possibly make work.   Your feelings about how much Beane wants Hopkins to be a Bill or how much Hopkins wants it are just feels.   Since you clearly can't see anything coming why are you so committed to these feels that are betraying you?   It will happen or it will not but it won't be because of your flawed rationale.

[HappyDays]

 

[0017]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Haha! Perfect he can follow Julio into retirement, but I’m not surprised if he takes the money over a contender, I’m happy as long as it’s not KC. 

[Nextmanup]

On 6/5/2023 at 4:56 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you rank most important positions?

 

They drafted a first round pass catcher.

 

 

You need 2 or 3 of those guys; not one.

 

 

[ddaryl]

37 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

You need 2 or 3 of those guys; not one.

 

 

 

 

Diggs is a 1st rd talent 

Kincaid was drafted in the 1st round

 

we got 2.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

You need 2 or 3 of those guys; not one.

 

 

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had like 15 draft picks every year several first would also be nice

[Fan in Chicago]

23 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Q: What's your cap situation?

 

. I'm going to guess with adding Leonard we're going to be minus 3-5. Somewhere in there. I haven't done that in the last day, but somewhere in that. So projecting how we would cut, that's no injuries, we're still going to have to do some moves at some point to create more room. So even though today on the Top 51 we have, I believe a little over 4 - we really don't. Just knowing who we think has the best chance to make our roster and how guarantees are shaped and all that, i'd say it's going to be somewhere between 3 and 5 (over the cap). this? 

 

 

 

 

What he saying is - we are over the cap or under but we don't have any more space 😀 Gobbledegook

 

best to just ignore this stuff. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Alphadawg7]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:57 PM, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Looks like no dhop

 

Its been no DHop for a while now...but there are people who will run these threads up to 1000 pages before accepting that reality.  

[Solomon Grundy]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its been no DHop for a while now...but there are people who will run these threads up to 1000 pages before accepting that reality.  

To quote the great Jesse Jackson, "Keep Hope Alive" 😎

[billsfan89]

54 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its been no DHop for a while now...but there are people who will run these threads up to 1000 pages before accepting that reality.  

I give the Bills a 20% chance to get him. It is going to come down to how big the gap is between what the Bills offer and what other lesser contenders offer. 
 

If Dhop just wants the most money he is not coming here. I feel like a second level team with some cap space will offer him a decent sized deal. 
 

But if Dhop wants to contend and play with a top QB and is willing to take a discount to do so then the Bills are in play. 
 

It mainly is going to come down to Dhop’s preference of cash or contention and can the Bills sensibly make an offer that at least closes that gap enough 

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's not anger.........it's just being blunt and matter of fact.    You crafting an argument around Von Miller being the only significant move they've made since last January is laughable.   They've extended Knox and Oliver.....2 players they didn't HAVE to re-sign at all costs..........to the tune of $110M alone since then.  And they have made a heap of mid-level moves and re-structures that probably pushes another $100M in potential future commitments.    Open your eyes. 

 

My eyes are open, thank you. They see things a little more clearly and with perspective to how Beane operates than you, who looks at things simply from the point of view of what you would or wouldn't do and what can or can't be done without respect for the effects of those actions.

 

I find it funny that you point to extensions as proof that he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Those extensions needed to be done when they were done in large part to get under the cap last year and this year. The idea that we can 'damn the torpedos' and do whatever, whenever is not true in large part BECAUSE it hampers his ability to get extensions like those ones done now and in the future.

 

Drafting, developing, and retaining are keys to building a team. You don't just fill a team and build a good locker room with the best available Free Agents every year. You may not value Knox or Oliver as important and replaceable. But he and the team feel otherwise. Both of these players (like Edmunds) would have made what they made and probably more had they gone elsewhere. 

 

As for "mid" signings, we started this year -18.5 over the cap and with 24 Free Agents. We had practically half of a roster to fill. He, at no point, said "we can't do anything" and then made the moves he did. He said he couldn't do "big splash" like signings this year and he didn't. He had to fill the roster and make all of those moves because of the 24 contracts that elapsed. And not every signing is going to be a name level superstar because we need to make sure we fill all those holes.

 

Like you said, he had to do a "heap" of restructures to do it. There isn't an endless supply of restructures that can be done that he feels comfortable doing. At this point, it seems it's pretty much Tre and Dawkins. With Tre, they're doing diligence to see what the shape of his knee is medically first. Dawkins, they may or may not want to even do as they may want to move on from his deal that he didn't live up to last season after this season or next as simply as they can.

 

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Obviously everyone that is interested in Hopkins is trying to negotiate the best deal they can get and nobody is going to "break the bank" for him like I presume you believe the Bills did with Von Miller at 6yr/$120M.    He is likely to get a 2-3 year deal and it likely won't be at a figure the Bills couldn't possibly make work.   Your feelings about how much Beane wants Hopkins to be a Bill or how much Hopkins wants it are just feels.   Since you clearly can't see anything coming why are you so committed to these feels that are betraying you?   It will happen or it will not but it won't be because of your flawed rationale.

 

Again, I'm not looking at things simply from the standpoint of what I would do and what is physically possible. I'm looking at the situation we're in financially, what we've done already, and how he operates. 

 

It's quite clear he feels we're in a situation now where a.) Hopkins would be nice, but he isn't a need and b.) He'll have to come at the price he's comfortable offering and that price is going to be below market value. 

 

I don't know what you're talking about when you say if he comes here or doesn't it has nothing to do with my "flawed rationale". It's pretty clear if he comes here, it won't be the best offer and he's coming here to play with Josh and improve his stock next season. And if he doesn't, it will be because Beane doesn't feel comfortable paying his price tag after what he's already done and what's on the horizon.

 

But I'd love to hear your rationale if it doesn't happen. I'm sure it will be... rational.

Edited June 7, 2023 by BillsFanForever19