Bills Roster Discussion

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Chargers are an actual option. Mike Williams is $33m on the cap next year, $12m dead if they get out. They aint paying him $33m. Likely Keenan Allen's last year too. Gabe is a level below Williams but they are similar players and the difference isn't huge. Tom Telesco loves bigger receivers. 

yea, that is why I chose that team. Tried being realistic instead of feeding him to a dumpster fire team and that would be a bad example. 

[T master]

No mention of Shorter, Latavious Murray, did you mention Hines ?

 

If it was me i would cut Barkley to open another roster spot for someone like Shorter . There will be so many good players that the Bills will have to let go & that really sucks !

 

Other teams like the Pats, & NYG will be salivating waiting for cut down day knowing al of the talent the Bills will be letting go .

 

They do need to keep some players on the roster so they don't get stolen like Hodgins did last season . 

[Solomon Grundy]

Bills have Shane "Sting" Ray and Marvin Wilson in on camp tryouts. Ray was a former 1st rd pick of Broncos. Wilson former DT at Florida State 

[In Summary]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:23 PM, Drew21PA said:

Sheesh

 

i am probably the only one here that is thinking Kincaid is allowed to be average this year and if he exceeds my expectations excellent

 

I feel he will be good - and first couple preseason games and regualr season I’ll be double taking saying “wait who was that again?”  
 

but everyone coming out of the gate saying Kincaid is going to be the number 2 star behind Diggs idk

 

MAYBE eclipse 500 yards in my estimate…

 

 

it's reasonable to think a rookie will have limited contributions no matter who they are.

[Warriorspikes51]

 

Extend DaQuan and sign Ngakoue 

[MrEpsYtown]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Bills have Shane "Sting" Ray and Marvin Wilson in on camp tryouts. Ray was a former 1st rd pick of Broncos. Wilson former DT at Florida State 

Ray always had talent and the ability to rush the passer. Those wrist injuries are just brutal for pass rushers. It’s probably nothing more serious than a camp flyer…but he has pass rush ability you can’t teach. Not your typical flyer imo. 

This is fun…what he does to Morse

 

 

 

They were also teammates at Mizzou

Edited May 12, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Extend DaQuan and sign Ngakoue 

 

From Brandon Beane's presser today regarding possible DT extensions:

 

"You know me well, ya know, we've found a way to sometimes do an extension or two, ya know, in Training Camp. So maybe we look at it at that point, see where the guys are at - who's all in, who's looking good, and if there's a chance to get one extended, we might look to do that then"

 

Seems he's not going to do that until he sees the guys in Camp, takes a look at them, and talks to them and their people.

 

Takes two to tango with extensions. It isn't as simple as just saying "extend this guy and sign this guy". Maybe Daquan isn't interested in signing an extension before hitting the market. Maybe he wants more than Beane is offering right now 

 

But Beane isn't the type to do an extension simply to sign someone else. Yannick is going to get a gig before Training Camp. Beane's also not the type to make an offer and then double back and offer substantially more.

 

Seems to me he may want another Edge. But it will have to be at his price of an incentive laden deal. Somebody is going to have to settle for that and we're going to get a steal. But it won't be Yannick. We made our offer, he said no. We'll wait and move on to the next guy who will take it.

Edited May 12, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Bills have Shane "Sting" Ray and Marvin Wilson in on camp tryouts. Ray was a former 1st rd pick of Broncos. Wilson former DT at Florida State 

 

Ray was always an overdraft. Predictable bust. Wilson was a guy a LOT of Bills fans wanted us to take a late flyer on when he came out. Interesting tryout players.

20 hours ago, T master said:

No mention of Shorter, Latavious Murray, did you mention Hines ?

 

If it was me i would cut Barkley to open another roster spot for someone like Shorter . There will be so many good players that the Bills will have to let go & that really sucks !

 

Other teams like the Pats, & NYG will be salivating waiting for cut down day knowing al of the talent the Bills will be letting go .

 

They do need to keep some players on the roster so they don't get stolen like Hodgins did last season . 

 

Barkley won't make the roster unless Kyle Allen sucks in camp.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ray was always an overdraft. Predictable bust. Wilson was a guy a LOT of Bills fans wanted us to take a late flyer on when he came out. Interesting tryout players.

 

Barkley won't make the roster unless Kyle Allen sucks in camp.

Def a huge overdraft, but he has a ability. I feel like injuries crushed him. 

[BillsFanForever19]

22 hours ago, T master said:

No mention of Shorter, Latavious Murray, did you mention Hines ?

 

If it was me i would cut Barkley to open another roster spot for someone like Shorter . There will be so many good players that the Bills will have to let go & that really sucks !

 

Other teams like the Pats, & NYG will be salivating waiting for cut down day knowing al of the talent the Bills will be letting go .

 

They do need to keep some players on the roster so they don't get stolen like Hodgins did last season . 

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Solomon Grundy]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:49 AM, Shemp said:

Nobody's talking about Beasley. Is he finished as a Bill and/or an NFL player?

Done like a Christmas goose😅

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

 

And I basically have it the same save Murray cut and Morris in. 

 

I just think if you are going to run some 12 as your base being one injury away from  having to ditch a whole chunk of your playbook necessitates an additonal tight end and personally I just don't see losing Murray as something to fear. I think he is mainly here as insurance against Harris's hamstrings not making it through camp. 

 

I know they have kept 4 backs previously but that included a guy who they didn't ever use as a back. Unless that is the way they seen Hines (and if so he is waaay overpaid) I think they will end up with 3 backs, Murray on the PS and if someone picks him up for a few weeks to cover an injury so be it.

[T master]

17 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

 

If as you say Morris is a casualty i think Dabol will be all over that one because the dude has great hands & would be a plus on any team in need of a go to receiver .

 

Here's another question as far as a roster spot goes . Why do they have 1 roster spot for a long snapper ? Wouldn't it be more advantageous to have your Center be that guy too ?

 

Morse signed a contract for $50 mill & i get it that learning all the line calls & such is a huge responsibility but you can't tell me the dude can't long snap & that would be 1 extra roster spot to have another player like say Morris to stick rather than cut .

 

Always wondered about that is it that much of a specialty that Morse couldn't learn how for $50 mill ??

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, T master said:

 

If as you say Morris is a casualty i think Dabol will be all over that one because the dude has great hands & would be a plus on any team in need of a go to receiver .

 

Here's another question as far as a roster spot goes . Why do they have 1 roster spot for a long snapper ? Wouldn't it be more advantageous to have your Center be that guy too ?

 

Morse signed a contract for $50 mill & i get it that learning all the line calls & such is a huge responsibility but you can't tell me the dude can't long snap & that would be 1 extra roster spot to have another player like say Morris to stick rather than cut .

 

Always wondered about that is it that much of a specialty that Morse couldn't learn how for $50 mill ??

Long snapper is a unique technique. There's a reason teams have a dedicated player for that position alone. If it was something the ordinary center could typically handle without the reps, everyone would do that and save the roster spot. Do you imagine league wide folks just haven't thought of it?

[T master]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Long snapper is a unique technique. There's a reason teams have a dedicated player for that position alone. If it was something the ordinary center could typically handle without the reps, everyone would do that and save the roster spot. Do you imagine league wide folks just haven't thought of it?

 

No i imagine they have . But given the amount of extra money paid out for another roster spot i'm pretty sure there COULD be 50 million reasons for someone to put in the extra time to learn how to do basically the same thing .

 

The same but different . I use to be a brick mason for a pool company and to be more employable i expanded my craft to doing tile then doing rock, glass block & more, so in the same thought if you are a center you have the basic skills so why not expand them ?

 

It's just a thought & i find it hard to believe that it can't be done these men are usually exceptionally smart & very athletically gifted people so in my punny little mind i don't see it being that big of a mountain to climb .

 

 

[Dr. Who]

22 minutes ago, T master said:

 

No i imagine they have . But given the amount of extra money paid out for another roster spot i'm pretty sure there COULD be 50 million reasons for someone to put in the extra time to learn how to do basically the same thing .

 

The same but different . I use to be a brick mason for a pool company and to be more employable i expanded my craft to doing tile then doing rock, glass block & more, so in the same thought if you are a center you have the basic skills so why not expand them ?

 

It's just a thought & i find it hard to believe that it can't be done these men are usually exceptionally smart & very athletically gifted people so in my punny little mind i don't see it being that big of a mountain to climb .

 

 

My surmise is that the longsnapper works with punters and kickers as part of a single "special teams unit" as it were and that it actually entails a lot of technique and continual repetition. It isn't something you can take ten minutes off to the side to address. Hence, you cannot task part of the starting oline to participate in what involves that level of commitment. Generations ago, the kicker was not a specialist. Longsnapper, like kicker, is now a specialist position and I don't think you can build out from a normal G or C to accomplish the same thing. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

No i imagine they have . But given the amount of extra money paid out for another roster spot i'm pretty sure there COULD be 50 million reasons for someone to put in the extra time to learn how to do basically the same thing .

 

The same but different . I use to be a brick mason for a pool company and to be more employable i expanded my craft to doing tile then doing rock, glass block & more, so in the same thought if you are a center you have the basic skills so why not expand them ?

 

It's just a thought & i find it hard to believe that it can't be done these men are usually exceptionally smart & very athletically gifted people so in my punny little mind i don't see it being that big of a mountain to climb .

 

 

Teams don't want this because of injury and the intricacies of snapping. The NFL long snapper can spin the ball to have the laces up in a 4 sq inch window 8 yards underneath behind him and a 60 sq inch window with laces up 18 yards back and underneath him. The tempo to go from playing one position to cool, calm, and focused for that is difficult. A minor injury can really tweak that. 

 

I long snapped in HS and was quite good. My favorite position. My favorite memory was in training camp having coaches put on boxing gloves to hit me while in my stance. 😁

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I basically have it the same save Murray cut and Morris in. 

 

I just think if you are going to run some 12 as your base being one injury away from  having to ditch a whole chunk of your playbook necessitates an additonal tight end and personally I just don't see losing Murray as something to fear. I think he is mainly here as insurance against Harris's hamstrings not making it through camp. 

 

I know they have kept 4 backs previously but that included a guy who they didn't ever use as a back. Unless that is the way they seen Hines (and if so he is waaay overpaid) I think they will end up with 3 backs, Murray on the PS and if someone picks him up for a few weeks to cover an injury so be it.

 

That's fair. I don't think that's crazy at all to surmise. 

 

Morris was #54 on my roster. I think what swayed me was a video from the Cover 1 guys talking about Kincaid being Drafted not being good for Morris. I think Gilliam could cover both roles and get more reps, making the contract he signed last season a worthwhile investment.

 

Reggie Gilliam started his career here as a TE. Even as a FB, he's sort of a FB/TE hybrid. And with the addition of Harris, who's a very good blocking Back and a Power Runner - on run downs you could put Gilliam on the line as the 3rd Blocking TE, who can catch some passes.

 

Morris plays on Special Teams. But we've added Sherfield, Shorter, and Williams to play mainly Teams (to go with core guys like Matakevitch, Neal, Bernard, and others). So we may be good there as well.

 

Again, I don't think it's crazy to surmise that Murray is released and Morris stays. I just think with the general makeup of the build of McBeane's rosters that they wouldn't feel comfortable dressing Cook, Harris, and Hines every week as they will and not have something they're comfortable with dressing the following week in the likely event that one of them goes down.

 

I also feel that with Beane calling up Murray's people and getting the deal done on Draft Day, facilitating a Trade Down in lieu of Drafting a RB in the 6th (who I think would have been on the 53) speaks some volumes. I think they liked what Murray did last season and want a 4th guy they can rely on instead of grabbing whomever off the scrap heap, if one of our core 3 guys go down.

 

I also think that when push comes to shove - the likelihood of a team giving Morris a spot on their 53 after cutdowns is pretty low. And that he'd be less likely to be poached off the Practice Squad then Murray would be, at a generally league wide war torn position like RB.

 

Murray was the go to guy for teams last year who had injuries at the RB position. Signing to two different teams and being activated to play because of league wide injuries at the position.

Edited May 13, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That's fair. I don't think that's crazy at all to surmise. 

 

Morris was #54 on my roster. I think what swayed me was a video from the Cover 1 guys talking about Kincaid being Drafted not being good for Morris. I think Gilliam could cover both roles and get more reps, making the contract he signed last season a worthwhile investment.

 

Reggie Gilliam started his career here as a TE. Even as a FB, he's sort of a FB/TE hybrid. And with the addition of Harris, who's a very good blocking Back and a Power Runner - on run downs you could put Gilliam on the line as the 3rd Blocking TE, who can catch some passes.

 

Morris plays on Special Teams. But we've added Sherfield, Shorter, and Williams to play mainly Teams (to go with core guys like Matakevitch, Neal, Bernard, and others). So we may be good there as well.

 

Again, I don't think it's crazy to surmise that Murray is released and Morris stays. I just think with the general makeup of the build of McBeane's rosters that they wouldn't feel comfortable dressing Cook, Harris, and Hines every week as they will and not have something they're comfortable with dressing the following week in the likely event that one of them goes down.

 

I also feel that with Beane calling up Murray's people and getting the deal done on Draft Day, facilitating a Trade Down in lieu of Drafting a RB in the 6th (who I think would have been on the 53) speaks some volumes. I think they liked what Murray did last season and want a 4th guy they can rely on instead of grabbing whomever off the scrap heap, if one of our core 3 guys go down.

 

I also think that when push comes to shove - the likelihood of a team giving Morris a spot on their 53 after cutdowns is pretty low. And that he'd be less likely to be poached off the Practice Squad then Murray would be, at a generally league wide war torn position like RB.

 

Murray was the go to guy for teams last year who had injuries at the RB position. Signing to two different teams and being activated to play because of league wide injuries at the position.

 

Murray will play for multiple teams in 2023. Whether one of them is the Bills is kind of neither here nor there IMO. I just think in the overall roster makeup it makes very little sense. I'd hate it personally and I have been a Latavius Murray fan throughout his career. He won me 2 fantasy championships as a Raider.

[BillsFanForever19]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Murray will play for multiple teams in 2023. Whether one of them is the Bills is kind of neither here nor there IMO. I just think in the overall roster makeup it makes very little sense. I'd hate it personally and I have been a Latavius Murray fan throughout his career. He won me 2 fantasy championships as a Raider.

 

I mean, I personally think it makes perfect sense. Gilliam plays limited reps in a hybrid FB role. I think he can take on both his limited role and Morris' limited role, justifying his 2 year 4.6m extension he signed last season until 2025.

 

I also think Morris is unlikely to be signed to a 53 following cut downs and less likely to be poached than Murray, if placed on the Practice Squad.

 

We also have TE Zach Davidson, a 6'7" former 5th Round pick of the Vikings, who we signed to the Practice Squad at the beginning of last season and has remained on the team through a Futures Contract. Providing insurance on the Practice Squad in the unlikely event we were to lose Morris at TE. Likewise, we have little to no insurance at RB.

 

Ultimately, in Morris, we're talking about a guy who averaged 13 snaps a game on Offense last season, almost exclusively as a Blocker, getting 10 catches on 11 targets for 102 yards and 1 TD. He played more on Special Teams, but we've also added a number of Special Teamers and retained most of our core.

 

I don't see him as irreplaceable as you do given all of this. But we can agree to disagree on that.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I mean, I personally think it makes perfect sense. Gilliam plays limited reps in a hybrid FB role. I think he can take on both his limited role and Morris' limited role, justifying his 2 year 4.6m extension he signed last season until 2025.

 

I also think Morris is unlikely to be signed to a 53 following cut downs and less likely to be poached than Murray, if placed on the Practice Squad.

 

We also have TE Zach Davidson, a 6'7" former 5th Round pick of the Vikings, who we signed to the Practice Squad at the beginning of last season and has remained on the team through a Futures Contract. Providing insurance on the Practice Squad in the unlikely event we were to lose Morris at TE. Likewise, we have little to no insurance at RB.

 

Ultimately, in Morris, we're talking about a guy who averaged 13 snaps a game on Offense last season, almost exclusively as a Blocker, getting 10 catches on 11 targets for 102 yards and 1 TD. He played more on Special Teams, but we've also added a number of Special Teamers and retained most of our core.

 

I don't see him as irreplaceable as you do given all of this. But we can agree to disagree on that.

 

I don't see Morris as irreplaceable. It isn't about Morris. It is about Murray. I'd rather Jordan Mims from Fresno State get those reps. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Who is our back up slot receiver? 

 

We have been hearing that Kincaid is going to be playing primarily in the slot. Basically, the Cole Beasley role but 8 inches taller. Likely stretching the field vertically more than Beasley did as well I am guessing. 

 

So, when Kincaid comes out, or worst-case scenario, has to miss time due to an injury who is his replacement in the slot? Sweeney? Knox? Do they go Sherfield who is 6'1" or try Shorter at 6'4"? Do they abandon the "jumbo slot" and go Shakir, Harty or Hines? 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Who is our back up slot receiver? 

 

We have been hearing that Kincaid is going to be playing primarily in the slot. Basically, the Cole Beasley role but 8 inches taller. Likely stretching the field vertically more than Beasley did as well I am guessing. 

 

So, when Kincaid comes out, or worst-case scenario, has to miss time due to an injury who is his replacement in the slot? Sweeney? Knox? Do they go Sherfield who is 6'1" or try Shorter at 6'4"? Do they abandon the "jumbo slot" and go Shakir, Harty or Hines? 

 

Yea when it isn't Kincaid it will be Sherfield, Shakir or Harty IMO. 

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Who is our back up slot receiver? 

 

We have been hearing that Kincaid is going to be playing primarily in the slot. Basically, the Cole Beasley role but 8 inches taller. Likely stretching the field vertically more than Beasley did as well I am guessing. 

 

So, when Kincaid comes out, or worst-case scenario, has to miss time due to an injury who is his replacement in the slot? Sweeney? Knox? Do they go Sherfield who is 6'1" or try Shorter at 6'4"? Do they abandon the "jumbo slot" and go Shakir, Harty or Hines? 

 

It's Khalil Shakir. I imagine Dalton Kincaid will get the majority of reps at the Slot. But Shakir will still get a lot of reps there cycling in for Kincaid in certain packages and playing there when Kincaid is occasionally lining up with his hand in the ground.

 

Harty and Sherfield are outside depth behind Diggs and Davis. Harty will be moved around a lot as a gadget guy depending on the package.

[hondo in seattle]

I know we're not PFF fans here, but PFF ranks the Bills roster as the fifth best in the NFL:

 

5. BUFFALO BILLS

 

Biggest strength in 2023: QB Josh Allen

There isn’t a more do-it-all quarterback in the league right now than Josh Allen. In 2022, he accounted for 46 total touchdowns (38 in the air and eight on the ground) while also putting up the third-highest passing grade (85.8) and highest rushing grade (92.8) among quarterbacks.

 

Biggest weakness in 2023: Receiver depth

Outside of Stefon Diggs, there aren’t too many pass catchers on the roster that strike fear into the hearts of defensive coordinators. Gabriel Davis will have the occasional big game, but he isn’t much of a volume guy, as his single-game high for receptions in 2022 was six, which he accomplished twice.

 

X-Factor for 2023: QB Josh Allen

While Allen is as explosive as they come at quarterback, his play style can be a rollercoaster, as his 33 turnover-worthy plays were the most in the NFL. If Allen can bring that number down a bit, we’re looking at one of the most dangerous offenses in football.

 

Rookie to watch: TE Dalton Kincaid

Despite not drafting a receiver until the fifth round, the Bills managed to snag arguably the 2023 draft’s best pass catcher — regardless of position — in former Utah tight end Dalton Kincaid with the 25th overall pick. Buffalo may run more 12 personnel with Kincaid alongside the incumbent Dawson Knox in order to get the best group of pass catchers on the field.

 

Over/Under 10.5 win total: Over

It’s going to be difficult to repeat in the competitive AFC East, but Buffalo has come out on top in this division three years in a row. As long as Josh Allen is under center, the Bills should remain the favorites in 2023.

 

www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-roster-rankings-strengths-weaknesses-x-factors-rookies-to-watch#BUF

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I know we're not PFF fans here, but PFF ranks the Bills roster as the fifth best in the NFL:

 

5. BUFFALO BILLS

 

Biggest strength in 2023: QB Josh Allen

There isn’t a more do-it-all quarterback in the league right now than Josh Allen. In 2022, he accounted for 46 total touchdowns (38 in the air and eight on the ground) while also putting up the third-highest passing grade (85.8) and highest rushing grade (92.8) among quarterbacks.

 

Biggest weakness in 2023: Receiver depth

Outside of Stefon Diggs, there aren’t too many pass catchers on the roster that strike fear into the hearts of defensive coordinators. Gabriel Davis will have the occasional big game, but he isn’t much of a volume guy, as his single-game high for receptions in 2022 was six, which he accomplished twice.

 

X-Factor for 2023: QB Josh Allen

While Allen is as explosive as they come at quarterback, his play style can be a rollercoaster, as his 33 turnover-worthy plays were the most in the NFL. If Allen can bring that number down a bit, we’re looking at one of the most dangerous offenses in football.

 

Rookie to watch: TE Dalton Kincaid

Despite not drafting a receiver until the fifth round, the Bills managed to snag arguably the 2023 draft’s best pass catcher — regardless of position — in former Utah tight end Dalton Kincaid with the 25th overall pick. Buffalo may run more 12 personnel with Kincaid alongside the incumbent Dawson Knox in order to get the best group of pass catchers on the field.

 

Over/Under 10.5 win total: Over

It’s going to be difficult to repeat in the competitive AFC East, but Buffalo has come out on top in this division three years in a row. As long as Josh Allen is under center, the Bills should remain the favorites in 2023.

 

www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-roster-rankings-strengths-weaknesses-x-factors-rookies-to-watch#BUF

 

 

Think I agree with every point here. Weird.

 

The nuanced caveat is Allen's 2023 pass protection: 1) if he can set up in the pocket we've seen him be patient and surgical (more in 2021 than 2022?) and move the chains methodically; or, instead 2) if he gets pressured early/often (let's say, for the sake of argument, off the RIGHT SIDE) we see a stubbornly aggressive approach that often ignores simpler solutions in favor of forcing it downfield.

 

So having said that, I'd put the o-line as the X-factor. 

[Richard Noggin]

On 5/12/2023 at 5:15 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Shorter will be on the roster as the 6th WR on the 53. Barkley will have the same role as last year, he'll be the 3rd QB on the Practice Squad. Josh and Kyle will be the only QB's on the 53.

 

Hines is a lock. We just gave him 4 million dollars upfront in a restructure to keep him. I see Murray being here on the 53 as we always keep 4 and to try and keep him on the PS would be to lose him when teams get injuries at RB. He wouldn't stay on the PS if playing time and more money was available elsewhere. He'll be this year's TJ Yeldon or Matt Breida "break glass in case of emergency" RB4.

 

To me, the 53 is pretty clear. A couple decent guys may be released. But "so many good players that the Bills will have to let go" and "teams like the Pats and NYG will be salivating waiting for cutdown day knowing all of the talent the Bills will have to let go" is an overstatement. 

 

To give you an idea, when I did mine, the biggest releases were Quintin Morris, Baylon Spector, and Cam Lewis - with Tommy Doyle starting on PUP. Other additions at DE or OT may change some things (making Boettger and/or Basham on the outside looking in, Basham being a trade candidate). But right now I see it like:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Boettger

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Klein, Bernard, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Benford, Jackson, Neal

S - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

PUP - Doyle

 

But yeah, nothing crazy being released that would have teams salivating. 

 

Solid work here.

 

The ONLY place I even flinch at all is TE, where I wonder if Morris has flashed untapped potential as a pass catcher, a skill the Bills might be emphasizing more in their TEs lately. 

 

Wonder if there is 1 fewer DL and/or OL spot which could lead to keeping Morris and/or we could see Austin stick in the secondary? He seems like a McDermott CB: long and smart. Do they usually keep 10 DL and 9 OL? I want to recall it being more like 9 DL and 8 OL tbh, but I have to check if that's at all accurate...

[BillsFanForever19]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:00 PM, Richard Noggin said:

 

Solid work here.

 

The ONLY place I even flinch at all is TE, where I wonder if Morris has flashed untapped potential as a pass catcher, a skill the Bills might be emphasizing more in their TEs lately. 

 

I've gone over this with another poster. Morris was #54 on my roster. Ultimately, it came down to a few things. 

 

One was that unless there's an injury, we don't use more than 2 TE's. Tommy Sweeney was only used in 5 games. And those were the 5 games that Dawson Knox or Quintin Morris wasn't available. Clearly, those two TE's will be Dalton Kincaid and Dawson Knox this year. 

 

Morris' role on this team is as an on the line blocker and Special Teams player. Last season, Reggie Gilliam signed a 2 year, 4.6m extension through the 2024 season. Gilliam started his career as a TE. His position now is a bit of a hybrid role and he's not on the field on all downs. 

 

I feel that with the amount of money Gilliam is making and the addition of a very good blocking back in Damien Harris, that Gilliam can play both FB and blocking TE on the line when Harris is in the backfield. And with the additions of guys like Trent Sherfield, Justin Shorter, and Dorian Williams - in conjunction with core ST'ers like Matakevitch, Neal, Dodson, and others returning, that we may be good on ST's as well without Morris.

 

Also, I feel like the odds of getting Morris back on the Practice Squad are pretty good. I'd be surprised if a team is going to put him on their 53 man roster after final cuts with no offseason with their team. But in the event that did happen, we also have Zach Davidson. A 6'7" former 5th Round Pick of the Vikings that we signed to the PS in September of last year who we retained after the season. If we were to lose Morris, that's pretty good insurance.

 

Ultimately, the roster being as it is, a difficult cut or two will be made. If Morris represents the toughest cut we make, that's pretty good in my opinion.

 

On 5/18/2023 at 11:00 PM, Richard Noggin said:

Wonder if there is 1 fewer DL and/or OL spot which could lead to keeping Morris and/or we could see Austin stick in the secondary? He seems like a McDermott CB: long and smart. Do they usually keep 10 DL and 9 OL? I want to recall it being more like 9 DL and 8 OL tbh, but I have to check if that's at all accurate...

 

I don't see that. 10 DL between 5 DE's and 5 DT's is the standard number for us. And if it's down to a Tim Settle, Jordan Phillips, or Boogie Basham vs. Quintin Morris - I don't see any way Morris is being kept over one of them.

 

When it comes to OL - the magic number is 9. Sometimes we carry 10. But 8 is too few for the OL. 

 

If Morris is to be kept, then the next likely to be lost on the roster would be either one of Tyrel Dodson or AJ Klein at the LB position or Latavius Murray at the RB position.

 

Alex Austin being the 8th last pick in a weak draft... I mean, anything's possible. Anyone can look undeniable and force their way on to a roster. But 7th Round picks almost always don't. His ceiling to me is the Practice Squad and the floor is being released. Between Tre, Elam, Taron, Benford, Jackson, and Neal - the 6 CB's we generally carry are pretty much all set in stone. And I don't see us carrying 7.

Edited May 20, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[JerseyBills]

On 5/14/2023 at 10:32 AM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Who is our back up slot receiver? 

 

We have been hearing that Kincaid is going to be playing primarily in the slot. Basically, the Cole Beasley role but 8 inches taller. Likely stretching the field vertically more than Beasley did as well I am guessing. 

 

So, when Kincaid comes out, or worst-case scenario, has to miss time due to an injury who is his replacement in the slot? Sweeney? Knox? Do they go Sherfield who is 6'1" or try Shorter at 6'4"? Do they abandon the "jumbo slot" and go Shakir, Harty or Hines? 

That's the least of our worries.  Starting with a future stud in Shakir and Sherfield 

[Richard Noggin]

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I've gone over this with another poster. Morris was #54 on my roster. Ultimately, it came down to a few things. 

 

One was that unless there's an injury, we don't use more than 2 TE's. Tommy Sweeney was only used in 5 games. And those were the 5 games that Dawson Knox or Quintin Morris wasn't available. Clearly, those two TE's will be Dalton Kincaid and Dawson Knox this year. 

 

Morris' role on this team is as an on the line blocker and Special Teams player. Last season, Reggie Gilliam signed a 2 year, 4.6m extension through the 2024 season. Gilliam started his career as a TE. His position now is a bit of a hybrid role and he's not on the field on all downs. 

 

I feel that with the amount of money Gilliam is making and the addition of a very good blocking back in Damien Harris, that Gilliam can play both FB and blocking TE on the line when Harris is in the backfield. And with the additions of guys like Trent Sherfield, Justin Shorter, and Dorian Williams - in conjunction with core ST'ers like Matakevitch, Neal, Dodson, and others returning, that we may be good on ST's as well without Morris.

 

Also, I feel like the odds of getting Morris back on the Practice Squad are pretty good. I'd be surprised if a team is going to put him on their 53 man roster after final cuts with no offseason with their team. But in the event that did happen, we also have Zach Davidson. A 6'7" former 5th Round Pick of the Vikings that we signed to the PS in September of last year who we retained after the season. If we were to lose Morris, that's pretty good insurance.

 

Ultimately, the roster being as it is, a difficult cut or two will be made. If Morris represents the toughest cut we make, that's pretty good in my opinion.

 

 

I don't see that. 10 DL between 5 DE's and 5 DT's is the standard number for us. And if it's down to a Tim Settle, Jordan Phillips, or Boogie Basham vs. Quintin Morris - I don't see any way Morris is being kept over one of them.

 

When it comes to OL - the magic number is 9. Sometimes we carry 10. But 8 is too few for the OL. 

 

If Morris is to be kept, then the next likely to be lost on the roster would be either one of Tyrel Dodson or AJ Klein at the LB position or Latavius Murray at the RB position.

 

Alex Austin being the 8th last pick in a weak draft... I mean, anything's possible. Anyone can look undeniable and force their way on to a roster. But 7th Round picks almost always don't. His ceiling to me is the Practice Squad and the floor is being released. Between Tre, Elam, Taron, Benford, Jackson, and Neal - the 6 CB's we generally carry are pretty much all set in stone. And I don't see us carrying 7.

 

Solid post. One disagreement: the Bills didn't keep 10 DL on the initial 53 in 2022. They went with 9 (5 DE + 4 DT). So 10 can't really be standard, can it?

 

**upon further, last-second googling, while they kept 9 DL in 2022, they actually rostered 11 in 2021 (making 10 the mean, or standard, here). 11 is kind of crazy, especially given the "uneven" impact the DL was having on most games. They have also, interestingly, kept 7 WRs each of the last two seasons while the TE number went from 2 to 3. 

 

***while they did roster 10 OL in 2020, they have since kept 9 two seasons in a row. You are correct that 8 is not enough. (I might have been conflating the gameday active roster rules that allow for two additional roster spots if a team activates only 7 OL? I might be mistaken still on this point...)