Some insight on Bills first round and how it went down

[Doc]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

I have no problem that they gave up a 4th due to their drafting record. I'm just saying people are posting it as fact that Dallas would have taken Kincaid and nobody knows that and it was never reported as being the case. In fact, they specifically said they had no TE higher than Mazi Smith so either they are lying or that's the truth.

 

Sometimes you just go and make the deal to ensure you get a guy.  If the choices were trade-up to get Kincaid or wait and possibly lose him leading you to trade down and miss-out on any 1st round talents, you do it.  As I said before, a 1st round talent like Kincaid will help the Bills far more than a late 4th rounder.

[KDIGGZ]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

You are dug in on your interpretation, partly because it confirms a particular view of Beane. I think mine is more plausible, but this is not the sort of issue that resolves ordinarily. Folks aren't argued out of fundamental convictions. Paradigm shifts require something more. You're welcome to your views, of course. I just disagree with them. (And it should go without saying, but in the big picture this an utterly trivial matter.)

Your view is fine, but it's just that...an opinion based solely on "I believe Beane." My contention is there is zero proof seemingly that Dallas had any intention on drafting Kincaid. Pretend this is a court of law. Let's see the proof.

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Sometimes you just go and make the deal to ensure you get a guy.  If the choices were trade-up to get Kincaid or wait and possibly lose him leading you to trade down and miss-out on any 1st round talents, you do it.  As I said before, a 1st round talent like Kincaid will help the Bills far more than a late 4th rounder.

That's fine if they felt a certain conviction. I think it's nonsensical to say Dallas was definitely going to take this guy. I've seen nothing to show that at all just Beane saying he had a hunch

[Dr. Who]

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

Your view is fine, but it's just that...an opinion based solely on "I believe Beane." My contention is there is zero proof seemingly that Dallas had any intention on drafting Kincaid. Pretend this is a court of law. Let's see the proof.

But this isn't a court of law with a criteria of proof that is necessarily higher if it is determining the fate of individuals. I'm interested in literature and history. If you take a figure like Thucydides, he creates histories with plausible speeches he couldn't possibly have verbatim notes to. He based his work on a reading of human nature and the particular characters of individual figures. I think you have a predisposition to mistrust Beane. I don't really dislike Jerry Jones, but I am more inclined to believe he would lie to save face and I also believe the Cowboys wanted Kincaid.

 

It's also true that Kincaid was my favorite player in the draft and I am very happy the Bills traded up to secure him. If I was a GM and I thought a team might take him ahead of me and he had fallen within trade up range, I make the trade to secure the player. And I personally wouldn't mind embellishing a tale to explain the move, but I don't think Beane is that kind of fella.

[ChevyVanMiller]

10 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Your view is fine, but it's just that...an opinion based solely on "I believe Beane." My contention is there is zero proof seemingly that Dallas had any intention on drafting Kincaid. Pretend this is a court of law. Let's see the proof.

That's fine if they felt a certain conviction. I think it's nonsensical to say Dallas was definitely going to take this guy. I've seen nothing to show that at all just Beane saying he had a hunch

I think the fact that they took Luke Schoonmaker at #58 in the 2nd round, way above his pre-draft projection, is pretty compelling evidence that Kincaid was a real desire for them in the 1st.

Edited April 30, 2023 by ChevyVanMiller

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

But this isn't a court of law with a criteria of proof that is necessarily higher if it is determining the fate of individuals. I'm interested in literature and history. If you take a figure like Thucydides, he creates histories with plausible speeches he couldn't possibly have verbatim notes to. He based his work on a reading of human nature and the particular characters of individual figures. I think you have a predisposition to mistrust Beane. I don't really dislike Jerry Jones, but I am more inclined to believe he would lie to save face and I also believe the Cowboys wanted Kincaid.

 

It's also true that Kincaid was my favorite player in the draft and I am very happy the Bills traded up to secure him. If I was a GM and I thought a team might take him ahead of me and he had fallen within trade up range, I make the trade to secure the player. And I personally wouldn't mind embellishing a tale to explain the move, but I don't think Beane is that kind of fella.

I'm even fine with some circumstantial evidence. A video of them looking upset after the pick as was mentioned would do it. I've never seen anything like that

20 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I think the fact that they Took Luke Schoonmaker at #58 in the 2nd round, way above his pre-draft projection, is pretty compelling evidence that Kincaid was a real desire for them in the 1st.

Or that they thought #26 was too high for a TE and they liked Mazi Smith better at that pick

[KDIGGZ]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thelandryhat.com/posts/cowboys-smokescreen-bills-trade-dalton-kincaid-nfl-draft-01gz419cr226/amp

[pennstate10]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What an exciting first 2 days of the draft, none more exciting than the first round!  Well here is how the first round went down for the Bills, some of this has come out publicly since our pick and some of this is inside info I have confirmed.  I don't often share inside info on here, but when I have as you know it's been always been correct, and I have a little here to share now as well. 

 

• Jordan Addison was their first and primary target in which they tried at least twice to trade up for him.  He was their highest graded WR in the draft.
  • I have a source that confirms to me that one of the teams were the Chargers but were rebuffed as they were all in on Quentin Johnston.
  • I don't know who the other team(s) was, but it was presumably after the Chargers because they said we "first tried to get him at the Chargers pick".
• Supposedly Bills did not have a first round grade on all the WR's that went before their pick and Addison was definitely the only one they tried to trade up for.  
• The only remaining player on the board after Addison went with a first round grade on Beanes board was Kincaid.  This is not inside info, Beane directly stated that.  
• From what I was told, the Jags had another team call with a similar offer for their pick but ours was slightly better.  (Maybe Cincy for Kincaid?) 
• Beane stated he had a trade down in place if Kincaid was gone. 
  • I also was told this was true and it was with the Titans where we sent 27 and got back 41 and their 3rd.  
  • Once Giants took a CB, Beane obviously pulled the trigger with the Jags to get Kincaid instead of the trade down.

 

Nothing too ground breaking here, more just confirming what a lot of us suspected already or had already come out.  Addison being their top target was pretty known given how many times they met with him.  But it was interesting to see that we tried to get Addison though, makes me wonder if he was the only WR they had a first round grade on, or did they have on JSN too but just preferred Addison.  

 

What I love about Beane is that when he wasn't able to get Addison, he stayed aggressive in his pursuit for more weapons for Allen and pounced as soon as he had an opportunity to get one by not hesitating to jump the Cowboys to do it.  

 

I have no info on Hopkins, so don't ask 

 

I’m confused. Your source is stating that Addison “was the only WR they had a first round grade on “, yet Beane directly stated they didn’t have a 1st round grade on any of the 4 WR taken before Bills picked. 
 

For the record, I think Kincaid was a better pick thanAddison. 

[jkeerie]

20 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I’m confused. Your source is stating that Addison “was the only WR they had a first round grade on “, yet Beane directly stated they didn’t have a 1st round grade on any of the 4 WR taken before Bills picked. 
 

For the record, I think Kincaid was a better pick thanAddison. 

That is not what I heard when listening to the presser.  He said that he did not have a first round grade on all four WRs taken ahead of them, but did not specify which ones.  Based on the OP, likely they had a first round grade only on Addison and none of the others.  

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I’m confused. Your source is stating that Addison “was the only WR they had a first round grade on “, yet Beane directly stated they didn’t have a 1st round grade on any of the 4 WR taken before Bills picked. 
 

For the record, I think Kincaid was a better pick thanAddison. 

 

You read it wrong...I didn't say he didn't have a 1st round grade on "any" WR, I said he didn't have one on all 4..  Meaning had some of the other WRs (outside of Addison) had been on the board, Kincaid still would have bene the pick.  

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

If we traded with the Titans that would have been 14 spots for them to come up and (presumably) take Levis, giving them a potential QB of the future with a 5th year option. A 3rd would have been poor value (in this draft especially) to give them that IMO. 

 

And if Kincaid is the weapon people are saying he can be, I think the Bills played it right. We needed the weapon and there weren't many options left high up that may have an impact this year. 

 

The presumption is that more picks would have been involved to make it balance, but those were the meaty picks mentioned.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

If this was the only trade down opportunity then I agree with what Beane did.  Dropping 14 spots was too far to only pick up a third. If the team had fewer holes, you can do that and get a 2nd in 2024.  Only trade back that would have made sense was in the top 5 of the second round that would have also given you a top 5 in the 3rd round.  Then the Bills would have had 4 picks from say somewhere between 34 to 91. That nets you one more top player and probably still gets you a WR, an OG, a better ILB prospect, and an OT or an edge.  

[Augie]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

What's the inside info on 3rd round pick LB Dorian Williams? 

 

I think that pick sucked big time. Wondering what in the world are the Bills doing? 

 

Wow! Way to be the very first response and manage to completely change the topic to something that “sucked big time” that you wanted to complain about. Couldn’t you at least pretend to play along before complaining about another topic. Bold, I’ll give you that!  

 

EDIT: As for the topic at hand: 

 

* I have come to really like what I see of the player and am excited to see more.

* I hate it now as we sit in the 4th round empty handed, but I can live with the price. 

* We screwed the Cowboys, so that is the cherry on top.  😋

 

 

.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Augie

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I’d have preferred a more aggressive move up for JSN. If not that, then I’m good with what the Bills. 

 

JSN is a good question, he was gone already at this point, so not sure if he had a first round grade too or not given Beane said he didn't have one all of the guys who went in the first.  And if he did, I wonder who was higher, him or Kincaid.  My guess is that it probably went Addison - Kincaid - JSN as everything points to them loving Kincaid almost as much as they loved Addison.

[Teddy KGB]

Did you get your information from Leroi ? 
 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

I have no problem that they gave up a 4th due to their drafting record. I'm just saying people are posting it as fact that Dallas would have taken Kincaid and nobody knows that and it was never reported as being the case. In fact, they specifically said they had no TE higher than Mazi Smith so either they are lying or that's the truth.

 

It doesn't have to be fact though, when you are sitting there and you believe they will take him at 26, then moving up to insure you get him is a good move.  Bills clearly thought they could take him and again, was told someone else called the Jags for the pick with a similar offer.  I am guessing Cincy, and I would think Kincaid could have also been the reason.  

 

Correct, no one will ever no for sure, but that is why you make the move to prevent it from happening because you don't know if it will or not.  

Edited April 29, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Augie]

48 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thelandryhat.com/posts/cowboys-smokescreen-bills-trade-dalton-kincaid-nfl-draft-01gz419cr226/amp

 

Some guy from ESPN speculated something. Shocking. I’m going with the main stream thinking on this one. 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

What's the inside info on 3rd round pick LB Dorian Williams? 

 

I think that pick sucked big time. Wondering what in the world are the Bills doing? 

Kincaid & Torrence are fantastic picks. Williams should have been Dawand Jones.  After all the LB's were gone, Beane pulls another desperate Bernard/ Spector head scratcher??

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I’m confused. Your source is stating that Addison “was the only WR they had a first round grade on “, yet Beane directly stated they didn’t have a 1st round grade on any of the 4 WR taken before Bills picked. 
 

For the record, I think Kincaid was a better pick thanAddison. 

 

No he didn't. He said they didn't have a 1st on "all of them". 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

Coming out of the first with Addison, if all it would’ve taken is our 3rd (after seeing who we took) would’ve been my preference.  
 

However, it’s a 1A to Kincaid’s 1B situation.   Very happy with Kincaid as well. 

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. Well said.

 

Agreed...at least we know the front office was dead focused on getting Allen help and they went after the best 2 guys to probably do that in the draft in terms of being a target for Allen.  Then adding O'Cyrus next to get him some more protection help was the icing on the cake.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Kincaid & Torrence are fantastic picks. Williams should have been Dawand Jones.  After all the LB's were gone, Beane pulls another desperate Bernard/ Spector head scratcher??

 

If there is one thing I am grateful for it is that we did not draft Dawand Jones. Bust. Bust. Bust. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If there is one thing I am grateful for it is that we did not draft Dawand Jones. Bust. Bust. Bust. 

Pinning this comment for when he inevitably is an All-Pro.