Education in America

[SoCal Deek]

11 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There's some sacrifice by the parents too. I mentioned in another thread that my wife and I drive cars that are over 10 years old. I live in a big city with a big city school system that is, by any account, troubled. Yet I park next to coworkers with beautiful new $100,000 cars who send their kids to those same public schools. I could have had one or two of those if my kids had gone to public school ...

(Patting myself on the back)

Thanks Frank. I give you permission to go get that new car. 😂

 

In all seriousness it never ceases to amaze me how people think there’s a magic fast lane to success. Think about it….We readily accept and glorify the NBA star who were told is the first one in the gym and the last one to leave, shorting hundreds of free throws every day. (When he wins the championship he almost thanks his mom!) But when it comes to academics we chalk it up to the kid being ‘gifted’ as if little to no work or dedication is required. 

[The Frankish Reich]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks Frank. I give you permission to go get that new car. 😂

 

In all seriousness it never ceases to amaze me how people think there’s a magic fast lane to success. Think about it….We readily accept and glorify the NBA star who were told is the first one in the gym and the last one to leave, shorting hundreds of free throws every day. (When he wins the championship he almost thanks his mom!) But when it comes to academics we chalk it up to the kid being ‘gifted’ as if little to no work or dedication is required. 

Very true. And I also see a lot of parents who sink tons of money into things that are really unlikely to pay off: club sports travel teams for their good (not great) athlete kids while they give short shrift to the academic side. I know one family where that ostensibly "worked" - the kid got a full ride basketball scholarship to a college nobody's heard of. And then promptly said "I'm out" after being burned out on constant basketball from the age of 6.

Meanwhile we see a lot of Asian kids whose parents pay for tutors, extra assignments, violin lessons, even spelling bee coaches. Those latter things don't often translate directly into success (there aren't many jobs for concert violinists or professional spelling bee competitors), but they build study skills that translate into success as doctors, research scientists, etc. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Very true. And I also see a lot of parents who sink tons of money into things that are really unlikely to pay off: club sports travel teams for their good (not great) athlete kids while they give short shrift to the academic side. I know one family where that ostensibly "worked" - the kid got a full ride basketball scholarship to a college nobody's heard of. And then promptly said "I'm out" after being burned out on constant basketball from the age of 6.

Meanwhile we see a lot of Asian kids whose parents pay for tutors, extra assignments, violin lessons, even spelling bee coaches. Those latter things don't often translate directly into success (there aren't many jobs for concert violinists or professional spelling bee competitors), but they build study skills that translate into success as doctors, research scientists, etc. 

In general I agree. Where I offer a slightly different take is that I let people make their own choices….but for that take I believe those people trade away the right to complain when it doesn’t work out. Complaining about the outcome after the game has been played isn’t a good look for anyone. (Not even Bills fans.)

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

In general I agree. Where I offer a slightly different take is that I let people make their own choices….but for that take I believe those people trade away the right to complain when it doesn’t work out. Complaining about the outcome after the game has been played isn’t a good look for anyone. (Not even Bills fans.)

Totally impressionistic/anectodal: Asian-American parents (or I'll expand it a bit, since I've seen the same thing with children of African immigrants) hold their kids responsible for their own successes and failures. You got a B? You didn't study hard enough! We'll get you a tutor who makes sure you do all the work. 

White parents: "My kid is very intelligent, he just doesn't test well. One of the other parents said the same thing, and they took him to a psychologist who diagnosed him with ADHD, so now he gets additional time on exams." And typically does a little better, but still trails well behind the tiger mommy kids.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Totally impressionistic/anectodal: Asian-American parents (or I'll expand it a bit, since I've seen the same thing with children of African immigrants) hold their kids responsible for their own successes and failures. You got a B? You didn't study hard enough! We'll get you a tutor who makes sure you do all the work. 

White parents: "My kid is very intelligent, he just doesn't test well. One of the other parents said the same thing, and they took him to a psychologist who diagnosed him with ADHD, so now he gets additional time on exams." And typically does a little better, but still trails well behind the tiger mommy kids.

Frank….You and I are simply saying the quiet part out loud. As I say on here ALL THE TIME, most things in life really aren’t that complicated. 

[Orlando Tim]

9 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Wow. That's depressing.

 

There's room for snark in this forum (and I'll admit I am a participant in that), but I actually check out these topics because it's kind of like a tiny reddit - there are people who actually have experience in a certain area who can provide some insight into things I don't know much about. 

So ... how did we get to this place? I know COVID made things worse, but the trend was already well in place. Checked out or entitled parents? Social media distractions? Bad/bloated school administrators? Burned out teachers? All of the above? 

The trend was in place but the explosion has been since COVID. COVID broke many parents which in turn overwhelmed the schools ability to help kids until it really bad. But the two things we as society need to do is stop making being a "victim" a point of pride. If you are mentally ill or truly victimized I want to help you, not confirm you. Secondly we need to stop telling kids that a terrible effort will be tolerated, I have parents telling me there kids "did the best they could" when the kid spent 3 minutes on the 4 questions assignment I gave them 20 minutes to do in class. (Yes that was a real example) I know the kid would struggle but he did not ask for help, he did not do research, he simply did not try because he is not afraid of me because parents would not back me. Last thing is one school policy- no phones in class at all and each violation is a out of school suspension. 

[Orlando Tim]

58 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Totally impressionistic/anectodal: Asian-American parents (or I'll expand it a bit, since I've seen the same thing with children of African immigrants) hold their kids responsible for their own successes and failures. You got a B? You didn't study hard enough! We'll get you a tutor who makes sure you do all the work. 

White parents: "My kid is very intelligent, he just doesn't test well. One of the other parents said the same thing, and they took him to a psychologist who diagnosed him with ADHD, so now he gets additional time on exams." And typically does a little better, but still trails well behind the tiger mommy kids.

Yes, immigrant kids, outside of the really rich Brazilians, are never my issue.   I will point out the additional time kids rarely use it, parents just want it to make themselves feel better about being crappy parents usually. The other most common accommodation is "preferential seating" which some parents think that means the kid gets to choose where they sit, it means I have to pay attention to their location in class. 

[The Frankish Reich]

9 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

outside of the really rich Brazilians

This is so Miami/Orlando ...

I do see a lot of the hispanic kids struggle (and remember, I am not in Florida, so it's a different hispanic demographic), mostly because the parents have minimal education and are just happy that the kids are in school at all. That's somewhere I think school outreach could really help. Of course, that also ties into the immigration issue. And that's changing, now that we see a lot of educated Venezuelans and Colombians coming in ...

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There's some sacrifice by the parents too. I mentioned in another thread that my wife and I drive cars that are over 10 years old. I live in a big city with a big city school system that is, by any account, troubled. Yet I park next to coworkers with beautiful new $100,000 cars who send their kids to those same public schools. I could have had one or two of those if my kids had gone to public school ...

(Patting myself on the back)

#truth

Mrs Ish takes the Bentley as a sensible choice.  The Frankish likes a little pop of color when he’s road trippin. 
 

[The Frankish Reich]

43 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Last thing is one school policy- no phones in class at all and each violation is a out of school suspension. 

I think that would be huge.

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

#truth

Mrs Ish takes the Bentley as a sensible choice.  The Frankish likes a little pop of color when he’s road trippin. 
 

Oh, when that new car finally comes it'll be something to behold.

#DelayedGratificationIsTheBestGratification

 

Now I need to finish my kids' college so they can make big money and buy me one.

[Big Blitz]

 

[Big Blitz]

 

[Orlando Tim]

22 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There's some sacrifice by the parents too. I mentioned in another thread that my wife and I drive cars that are over 10 years old. I live in a big city with a big city school system that is, by any account, troubled. Yet I park next to coworkers with beautiful new $100,000 cars who send their kids to those same public schools. I could have had one or two of those if my kids had gone to public school ...

(Patting myself on the back)

Before I get to my point- you did your job as a father and should be proud, your kids were taught where you invest your resources and it is in your kids. I work in one of the largest school districts in the country and while some of public schools suck, some are phenomenal for allowing kids to flourish. My sons school has kinda the two tracks in the school itself for kids who choose to be great and those who just want to graduate. In my school we have public schools with billionaire kids mixing with the welfare kids based more on effort than resources at home. Crappy school are not a forgone conclusion for public schools unless the parents accept it. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

Crappy school are not a forgone conclusion for public schools unless the parents accept it. 

I certainly agree with that. There are a lot of fantastic public school programs even in our big city school districts.

The problem I see: there's an obsessive focus by the bureaucrats with making the numbers look better than they are. In Denver, we had a new high school they called the Denver School of Science and Technology (DSST). You didn't test in, but it attracted high achieving students and it always at least equaled the performance of our best private schools. So what does the school board do? They water it down! First, they start trying to improve access for kids who aren't as well prepared and standards start to slip. Then they realize they have a successful brand, so they start relabeling existing schools - what was once an ordinary school become "DSST West Campus" or something like that. They create something valuable, then try to spread the high test scores a little more broadly, start destroying the brand, and lose a lot of the value of what they created. 

And then we have the removal of "school resource officers" (school cops) in one of those social justice pushes, and then we have shootings at our best public high school with the best AP programs, and the high-performing kids' families start pulling their kids out. 

It is the constant meddling of the bureaucrats that is our main problem here, and the main reason we went the private route, even after moving into the city and intending to send our kids to public schools.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:31 AM, The Frankish Reich said:

Very true. And I also see a lot of parents who sink tons of money into things that are really unlikely to pay off: club sports travel teams for their good (not great) athlete kids while they give short shrift to the academic side. I know one family where that ostensibly "worked" - the kid got a full ride basketball scholarship to a college nobody's heard of. And then promptly said "I'm out" after being burned out on constant basketball from the age of 6.

Meanwhile we see a lot of Asian kids whose parents pay for tutors, extra assignments, violin lessons, even spelling bee coaches. Those latter things don't often translate directly into success (there aren't many jobs for concert violinists or professional spelling bee competitors), but they build study skills that translate into success as doctors, research scientists, etc. 

 

Sinking money into club sports doesn’t pay off because no scholarships but violin lessons do because of study skills? 

you are missing the other aspects of these sports..  teamwork, leadership, accountability, performance under pressure, friendships, competition and camaraderie. These all translate into success in just about every career. 
 

Any parent buying into club sports for scholarships is missing the entire point. 

[BillsFanNC]

Social justice math.

 

Makes sense!

 

 

[Doc]

The party of low(ering) standards.

[B-Man]

 

 

Democrats Are Throwing Kids Off the School Bus

STEPHEN MOORE

 

 

 

Have you heard the outrageous story of what happened recently in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania’s capital? Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-Pa.), elected in 2022, had campaigned on school choice for tens of thousands of children, mostly minorities, who are forced to attend failing public schools in places like Philadelphia.

 

“It’s what I believe,” Shapiro, then state attorney general, assured voters as he ran for governor. Last month on a national Fox News broadcast, Shapiro was unequivocal in his support for school choice because “every child of God” deserves “a quality education.”

 

But there’s a force far more powerful in politics than Shapiro’s convictions, such as they are. And that force is the teachers unions. They put on a full-court press to stop the roughly 10,000 vouchers for the poorest kids in Pennsylvania’s worst school districts even though the state budget bill gave billions more for the public schools. It didn’t matter that this voucher program comprised less than 0.5% of state spending. The union brass commanded Democrats to vote no on even a single penny going to schools that work.

 

In the end, Shapiro did a full flip-flop. He vetoed his own promise. He might as well have declared that black lives don’t matter.

 

This story isn’t just about Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania. In North Carolina, Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper declared a state of emergency in the Tar Heel State because the legislature wanted to fund vouchers for kids to go to the best schools possible. Egads!

 

In Arizona, Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs wants to defund a school choice program that is already serving tens of thousands of kids, most of whom are Hispanic, with proven results of better performance and higher test scores. Why would she kill a program that is working? The teachers unions want the money and the kids under their control.

 

In New York City’s Harlem neighborhood, charter schools are flourishing. They are alternatives to public schools but are still regulated by the state. They are oversubscribed because parents want to choose the best school for their kids. Now, the Democrats want to put a cap on the charter schools because the teachers unions want to warehouse the kids in public schools where a majority of the kids can’t read or do math at grade-level proficiency. In other words, many of the public schools are worse than mediocre. And it’s not for lack of money. New York spends more than $20,000 per child in public schools.

 

Did I mention that in nearly every one of these cases across the country, the Democrats blocking private and Catholic school options went to private schools themselves? Or they send their kids to private schools. But poor black kids aren’t allowed that same opportunity? These are hypocrites with a capital H.

 

There’s a cruel historic irony here. Sixty years ago this summer, Alabama Gov. George Wallace stood before the doors of schools to prevent black children from attending the schools with white children. He was trying to preserve the stain of segregation.

 

Today, Democrats are employing the same tactic to keep minority kids from attending excellent schools. Why? They say that school choice will hurt public schools or cause more segregation.

 

Wrong on both counts. Monopolies are always bad for consumers and competition improves service. Education choice requires public schools to compete. Would you get good and friendly service if there were only one restaurant in town?

 

Instead of draining public schools of money, studies show that per-pupil funding rises when some kids take advantage of vouchers to attend alternative schools. Charter and Catholic schools tend to be, in most cases, more racially diverse than inner-city public schools.

 

 

https://hotair.com/stephen-moore/2023/07/18/democrats-are-throwing-kids-off-the-school-bus-n565274

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Of course they do.

 

 

California profs call opponents of progressive propaganda in public schools ‘white nationalists,’ ‘religious zealots.’

 

 

https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=23618

 

.

[Orlando Tim]

10 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Democrats Are Throwing Kids Off the School Bus

STEPHEN MOORE

 

 

 

Have you heard the outrageous story of what happened recently in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania’s capital? Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-Pa.), elected in 2022, had campaigned on school choice for tens of thousands of children, mostly minorities, who are forced to attend failing public schools in places like Philadelphia.

 

“It’s what I believe,” Shapiro, then state attorney general, assured voters as he ran for governor. Last month on a national Fox News broadcast, Shapiro was unequivocal in his support for school choice because “every child of God” deserves “a quality education.”

 

But there’s a force far more powerful in politics than Shapiro’s convictions, such as they are. And that force is the teachers unions. They put on a full-court press to stop the roughly 10,000 vouchers for the poorest kids in Pennsylvania’s worst school districts even though the state budget bill gave billions more for the public schools. It didn’t matter that this voucher program comprised less than 0.5% of state spending. The union brass commanded Democrats to vote no on even a single penny going to schools that work.

 

In the end, Shapiro did a full flip-flop. He vetoed his own promise. He might as well have declared that black lives don’t matter.

 

This story isn’t just about Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania. In North Carolina, Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper declared a state of emergency in the Tar Heel State because the legislature wanted to fund vouchers for kids to go to the best schools possible. Egads!

 

In Arizona, Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs wants to defund a school choice program that is already serving tens of thousands of kids, most of whom are Hispanic, with proven results of better performance and higher test scores. Why would she kill a program that is working? The teachers unions want the money and the kids under their control.

 

In New York City’s Harlem neighborhood, charter schools are flourishing. They are alternatives to public schools but are still regulated by the state. They are oversubscribed because parents want to choose the best school for their kids. Now, the Democrats want to put a cap on the charter schools because the teachers unions want to warehouse the kids in public schools where a majority of the kids can’t read or do math at grade-level proficiency. In other words, many of the public schools are worse than mediocre. And it’s not for lack of money. New York spends more than $20,000 per child in public schools.

 

Did I mention that in nearly every one of these cases across the country, the Democrats blocking private and Catholic school options went to private schools themselves? Or they send their kids to private schools. But poor black kids aren’t allowed that same opportunity? These are hypocrites with a capital H.

 

There’s a cruel historic irony here. Sixty years ago this summer, Alabama Gov. George Wallace stood before the doors of schools to prevent black children from attending the schools with white children. He was trying to preserve the stain of segregation.

 

Today, Democrats are employing the same tactic to keep minority kids from attending excellent schools. Why? They say that school choice will hurt public schools or cause more segregation.

 

Wrong on both counts. Monopolies are always bad for consumers and competition improves service. Education choice requires public schools to compete. Would you get good and friendly service if there were only one restaurant in town?

 

Instead of draining public schools of money, studies show that per-pupil funding rises when some kids take advantage of vouchers to attend alternative schools. Charter and Catholic schools tend to be, in most cases, more racially diverse than inner-city public schools.

 

 

https://hotair.com/stephen-moore/2023/07/18/democrats-are-throwing-kids-off-the-school-bus-n565274

I am fully in support of school vouchers but want to make sure everyone is aware of the issues that they cause parents. One is that the good schools become overcrowded quickly and depending on situation causes the quality to drop. In FL we have school choice but school only has to take kid if the school is not at capacity, which every good school is at "capacity", such as my high school is at capacity at 720 per class but 2 years ago had a graduating class of 1200 before relief school was opened. Secondly who has responsibility of transportation, in most of country that becomes a real issue. Lastly what is response to kids who miss a large amount of days due to transportation issues? These are the issues that popped up in FL recently. For most parents it is easier to move to a good district then deal with this rigamarole.

[SoCal Deek]

37 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

I am fully in support of school vouchers but want to make sure everyone is aware of the issues that they cause parents. One is that the good schools become overcrowded quickly and depending on situation causes the quality to drop. In FL we have school choice but school only has to take kid if the school is not at capacity, which every good school is at "capacity", such as my high school is at capacity at 720 per class but 2 years ago had a graduating class of 1200 before relief school was opened. Secondly who has responsibility of transportation, in most of country that becomes a real issue. Lastly what is response to kids who miss a large amount of days due to transportation issues? These are the issues that popped up in FL recently. For most parents it is easier to move to a good district then deal with this rigamarole.

Yes, but at least the parent has a choice. 

[DrW]

36 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

I am fully in support of school vouchers but want to make sure everyone is aware of the issues that they cause parents. One is that the good schools become overcrowded quickly and depending on situation causes the quality to drop. In FL we have school choice but school only has to take kid if the school is not at capacity, which every good school is at "capacity", such as my high school is at capacity at 720 per class but 2 years ago had a graduating class of 1200 before relief school was opened. Secondly who has responsibility of transportation, in most of country that becomes a real issue. Lastly what is response to kids who miss a large amount of days due to transportation issues? These are the issues that popped up in FL recently. For most parents it is easier to move to a good district then deal with this rigamarole.

 

Here in West Texas we have a long-standing opposition against school vouchers, driven by an unlikely coalition of rural republicans and democrats who fear that vouchers would take money away from the public school districts which badly need it. In most parts of the country here, there is just no private school within 50 - 100 miles.

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, DrW said:

 

Here in West Texas we have a long-standing opposition against school vouchers, driven by an unlikely coalition of rural republicans and democrats who fear that vouchers would take money away from the public school districts which badly need it. In most parts of the country here, there is just no private school within 50 - 100 miles.

I’m not sure if funding is the same in all States but here in California the public schools get money based on Average Daily Attendance…or in other words per kid. So if the kid leaves the money goes with them. The public school district is no more damaged by a kid going to charter school than they are if that same kid moves to Arizona. Or, if they just suffer from declining enrollment (as many are) from demographic shifts. 

[DrW]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure if funding is the same in all States but here in California the public schools get money based on Average Daily Attendance…or in other words per kid. So if the kid leaves the money goes with them. The public school district is no more damaged by a kid going to charter school than they are if that same kid moves to Arizona. Or, if they just suffer from declining enrollment (as many are) from demographic shifts. 

 

Most rural school districts here are so small that they cannot afford to lose another kid. And I can tell you from my own experience (my kids went to a pretty large suburban/rural public school district here in Lubbock, but had a number of friends in smaller rural districts) that the teachers and administrators in these small schools make tremendous efforts for a lousy salary.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, DrW said:

 

Most rural school districts here are so small that they cannot afford to lose another kid. And I can tell you from my own experience (my kids went to a pretty large suburban/rural public school district here in Lubbock, but had a number of friends in smaller rural districts) that the teachers and administrators in these small schools make tremendous efforts for a lousy salary.

My wife is a public school educator. I’m not anti-school. But if a rural school is losing students because they’ve gone off the rails in what they’re teaching, then the market should force them to course correct (pardon the pun). And eventually, if the school is no longer viable, then the school will close and parents have to make other accommodations. 

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure if funding is the same in all States but here in California the public schools get money based on Average Daily Attendance…or in other words per kid. So if the kid leaves the money goes with them. The public school district is no more damaged by a kid going to charter school than they are if that same kid moves to Arizona. Or, if they just suffer from declining enrollment (as many are) from demographic shifts. 

I believe it is the same all over country, but the issue for the Teachers Union is that the kids in certain areas are latched to their school, like a monopoly. If a parent can simply choose another school then all those jobs at that site are in jeopardy, and mostly the change is to private, therefore they want to make sure that the government makes the private school as hard as possible to get into for the parent.

[SoCal Deek]

13 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

I believe it is the same all over country, but the issue for the Teachers Union is that the kids in certain areas are latched to their school, like a monopoly. If a parent can simply choose another school then all those jobs at that site are in jeopardy, and mostly the change is to private, therefore they want to make sure that the government makes the private school as hard as possible to get into for the parent.

I’m sure you’re aware that a charter school is not a private school. The per pupil money simply moves from the ‘District’ school to the Charter School. 

[Precision]

No AP Math in Cambridge MA Middle Schools, the home of Harvard and MIT...

 

Parents slam woke Massachusetts school district for axing advanced math classes to boost 'equity', after they attracted too many white and Asian students - with families now forced to hire private tutors instead

[Orlando Tim]

24 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m sure you’re aware that a charter school is not a private school. The per pupil money simply moves from the ‘District’ school to the Charter School. 

I did use the term incorrectly, and you are correct, what my point is since the charters don't have union employees they are opposed to them. To a true pro union teacher charter and private schools are the same. I do want to point out that the teachers union in FL is voluntary and I am not a member because they spend too much time dealing with political crap and not enough getting me paid more. 

[The Frankish Reich]

38 minutes ago, Precision said:

No AP Math in Cambridge MA Middle Schools, the home of Harvard and MIT...

 

Parents slam woke Massachusetts school district for axing advanced math classes to boost 'equity', after they attracted too many white and Asian students - with families now forced to hire private tutors instead

This is an awful trend.

I have some familiarity with educational systems in Europe; very little with educational systems in Asia or other parts of the world.

They tend to "track" students much earlier, separating out the high achievers from those that are struggling. We have a more egalitarian focus in America. That continues straight through high school and university. We want to give late bloomers a chance. Unlike the UK, you don't specialize (by taking A levels) in particular disciplines before going to college. And unlike the UK, you aren't accepted into a particular degree program (with some minor exceptions), so you don't even have to declare a major until your second or third year. There's something valuable in all of that.

But ... we have to live in the real world too. There are a lot of disciplined/bright kids who will be going into STEM fields who will be adversely impacted by trying to push everyone into an easier math sequence. My perception (and our educators are welcome to jump in here to agree/disagree): we pretty much know which kids may have a STEM future and which kids don't by the time they do hit 8th grade. Tracking shouldn't be a bad word. We should give a kid every opportunity to catch up. But catching up doesn't mean slowing down the talented/dedicated kids. 

We are in a weird place in America. Nobody ever suggests that the little kid sports team rules - everybody plays on the same team, regardless of ability - should carry through to high school. I would have played varsity football if that had been the rule, and believe me, I had no business even thinking about playing varsity football. Same thing with other skills: ballet, music, theater, whatever. But when it comes to academics we are afraid to admit that different kids have different talent levels in writing/math, etc. My kids' private school even stopped publishing the Honor Rolls (which, taking into account all 3 levels and grade inflation, probably included 85% of all students), but it had no problem publishing individual stats for the basketball teams. Why?

Edited July 19, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[Precision]

30 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

This is an awful trend.

I have some familiarity with educational systems in Europe; very little with educational systems in Asia or other parts of the world.

They tend to "track" students much earlier, separating out the high achievers from those that are struggling. We have a more egalitarian focus in America. That continues straight through high school and university. We want to give late bloomers a chance. Unlike the UK, you don't specialize (by taking A levels) in particular disciplines before going to college. And unlike the UK, you aren't accepted into a particular degree program (with some minor exceptions), so you don't even have to declare a major until your second or third year. There's something valuable in all of that.

But ... we have to live in the real world too. There are a lot of disciplined/bright kids who will be going into STEM fields who will be adversely impacted by trying to push everyone into an easier math sequence. My perception (and our educators are welcome to jump in here to agree/disagree): we pretty much know which kids may have a STEM future and which kids don't by the time they do hit 8th grade. Tracking shouldn't be a bad word. We should give a kid every opportunity to catch up. But catching up doesn't mean slowing down the talented/dedicated kids. 

We are in a weird place in America. Nobody ever suggests that the little kid sports team rules - everybody plays on the same team, regardless of ability - should carry through to high school. I would have played varsity football if that had been the rule, and believe me, I had no business even thinking about playing varsity football. Same thing with other skills: ballet, music, theater, whatever. But when it comes to academics we are afraid to admit that different kids have different talent levels in writing/math, etc. My kids' private school even stopped publishing the Honor Rolls (which, taking into account all 3 levels and grade inflation, probably included 85% of all students), but it had no problem publishing individual stats for the basketball teams. Why?

I agree that it is an awful trend.  As you indicated all of us have strengths and weaknesses that are innate.  Trying to level the playing field is never going to change that.

 

I find this especially troubling in an affluent city like Cambridge, MA that can afford to do a lot.  Rather than raise everyone up they are lowering standards to the point of limiting the future academic options of students.  The well off in Cambridge will simply hire tutors or send their children to a private school so this only hurts the middle and lower classes.  I bet the number of children of Harvard and MIT faculty not taking AP classes is somewhere between zero and none.

[Orlando Tim]

We in Orange County just guaranteed free lunch to every student in every school everyday. I know this sounds great but it is going to be a horrible waste of money because we will have to prepare each day as if children will eat lunches they will not eat. The summer school meals were a joke, pizza, french fries, fruit cups, chicken nuggets were each almost every other day. Kids would take the "fresh" fruit and not eat it because of the quality but had to take it because of federal rules. I am ok with feeding kids but the current meals are atrocious and not healthy.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Orlando Tim said:

We in Orange County just guaranteed free lunch to every student in every school everyday. I know this sounds great but it is going to be a horrible waste of money because we will have to prepare each day as if children will eat lunches they will not eat. The summer school meals were a joke, pizza, french fries, fruit cups, chicken nuggets were each almost every other day. Kids would take the "fresh" fruit and not eat it because of the quality but had to take it because of federal rules. I am ok with feeding kids but the current meals are atrocious and not healthy.

My wife would watch as the kids, who had already eaten at home, would take the breakfast, keep the chocolate milk, and dump the rest. Day after day after day…but since the Feds were paying for the breakfast nobody cared. 

[Doc]

The amount of food wasted is unconscionable  

[The Frankish Reich]

I will hazard a guess that the percentage of school age children in America who are actually underfed statistically rounds to zero.

Yet the "going to bed hungry" or "unable to learn because they are hungry" memes persist. And in general, the poorer the kids are, the higher the rate of obesity.

Walmart cheapo white bread: $1.32.

Walmart peanut butter: 64 ounces (that's a lot!), 6 bucks.

Walmart jelly: 2 bucks, 18 ounces.

But what about vegetables you ask?

Yeah, a lot less vegetables for the school compost bin.

[Orlando Tim]

11 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I will hazard a guess that the percentage of school age children in America who are actually underfed statistically rounds to zero.

Yet the "going to bed hungry" or "unable to learn because they are hungry" memes persist. And in general, the poorer the kids are, the higher the rate of obesity.

Walmart cheapo white bread: $1.32.

Walmart peanut butter: 64 ounces (that's a lot!), 6 bucks.

Walmart jelly: 2 bucks, 18 ounces.

But what about vegetables you ask?

Yeah, a lot less vegetables for the school compost bin.

Truly this is biggest issue, kids take just portions they want but are required to take all parts because of federal law. Also produce is crap at my school and my school is the rich one 

[B-Man]

Our schools are not OK

DAVID STROM

 

By now everybody knows that our public schools are in crisis.

 

Test scores have been falling, enrollment has dropped like a rock, and many of the kids graduating don’t have even basic skills.

 

Yet school boards and teachers are focused on alphabet ideology and pushing pornography in school.

It’s good to know where their priorities lie.

 

It’s not just in Blue areas either, where you would expect it. Because of the peculiarities of how school boards are chosen (teachers often make up the majority of the vote in the elections) and the selection of people who run the public schools, districts across the nation are focused on race and gender issues far more than basic skills. In fact, many school districts have reduced or eliminated standards for graduation and even reduced advanced programs in order to ensure “equity.”

 

Equity simply means that everybody graduates equally uneducated.

 

The parents are prudish bigots who, if the Biden Administration had its way, would be labeled “domestic terrorists.”

The MSM doesn’t tell the public what the fights are about. They portray parents just trying to restore sanity to our public schools as fascists, and the school boards and teachers as saintly people trying to save kids on the brink of suicide.

 

This isn’t saintly unless you think turning teens into sexual zealots who view blow jobs as the same thing as communion.

 

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/07/28/our-schools-are-not-ok-n567571

 

 

[Doc]

They're more worried about allowing pornography in schools than the dismal test scores.  Pathetic.

[SoCal Deek]

What most people don’t understand is that the Teachers Union pays for the campaign of just enough school board members to hold onto a simply majority.