New stadium cost goes up from $1.4 billion to $1.54 billion.

[cba fan]

8 hours ago, Utah John said:

I still can't believe the Pegulas get credit in this deal for the money collected from PSLs.  That's money from the fans, from the public, not from their own pockets. And they even get to count the money that it costs to sell and administer the PSLs.  

 

They ARE responsible for cost overruns, which could turn out to be a lot of money, so they're not getting off scott-free.  I just think the PSLs should be regarded as another category of funding for the stadium, so we could see more clearly who's paying what.

A lot of what's being counted as money from the Pegulas is actually money paid by the fans, for PSLs.  It's crazy.

as i pointed out the PSL's in this deal are fundamentally different than in any other.

 

Pegs contributes a set multi millions as i set forth per the deal. No stipulation PSL's intake affects his contribution. State wanted a guarantee and got it.

 

Pegs as owner of Bills is only one who can sell PSL's. Pegs as owner keeps 100% of the PSL money. If he can't sell any PSL's or only sells $50 million of PSL's he has no recourse. The deal is done.

 

If he sells $100 billion of PSL's he keeps all of it. State and County have no recourse to ask for more. 

You can bet Pegs will try to keep the amount of PSL money taken in, a hot secret.

Edited April 9, 2023 by cba fan

[bigK14094]

gonna need Doug Flutie to sell  PSL's like last time.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

3 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Lol

 

My points are "pretty backward"?  Please see bold above...

 

Yikes.

 

Backward or not, your theory certainly isn't validated by the Bills themselves.

 

I would venture to say that if there is one thing that anyone, from pundits to casual fans, could easily agree upon when it comes to the Bills, is that they're a rather soft team. So much that their QB is indisputably their toughest, most physical player.

 

So unless going through something like the Hamlin's scare and totally s**tting the bed afterwards is the definition of not being soft, yeah playing in the elements did pretty much nothing to make the Bills a though or physical team.

Edited April 9, 2023 by McDeerInTheHeadlights

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

we have gone over this and we disagree on it.

I still believe PSL money is Pegs. He choose to do PSL's as part of the funding and opening up the G4 loan from NFL.

Pegs and Bills have pd into the NFL G4 loan fund for decades and will pay in in perpetuity by taking Bills cut of tickets when they are on road when Bills are visitor. so it is Pegs money getting spent.

So i give it to Pegs on the ledger front.

 

I know you and some others do not agree.

 

It is just my categorization of it. Partially due to the following also:

 

If Pegs or other owner wanted to move a team to newer richer city, they could dig in, refuse to offer PSL's, then not Q for the G4 loan, and insist on more public funding that would not come, to then grease the wheel for the team to escape to richer pastures.

 

This option was very plausible for Pegs in this market and he could have dug in and insisted Bills WNY market cannot support PSL's and most believe that. Especially the State believes that as you read on:

 

and finally. This stadium deal is fundamentally different from every other PSL funding deals in history.

Pegs is funding all his portion up front including cost overruns to be determined completely separate from PSL money eventually brought in. And it has absolutely no bearing on how much, how little, or if any PSL money is raised. Or if 20 trillion is raised. Pegs is locked into the deal as is.

 

State wanted no part of this unknown and got Pegs to agree on the deal as is. 

 

 

None of this changes the fact that the majority (or even half) is not coming from Pegula’s pocket.

 

The crux of your argument is that Pegula is gauranteeint the payment without seeing the PSL money (but that’s every stadium/owner ever). And that Pegula could have moved the team.

 

Neither one of those points changes that Pegula is NOT paying for half of the stadium. 

 

There is a reason why economists call this one of the sweetest and most team friendly stadium deals ever.

 

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2022/04/12/business-football-bills-stadium-deshaun-watson-contract

[That's No Moon]

They'd be better off letting them walk. Never going to win, gonna pay a ton to keep them here as also rans. For what?

[Punching Bag]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:26 PM, Draconator said:

 

You obviously missed the reason for the $140 Million extra cost.

 

- Bigger canopy covering the fans

- Enhanced electronics and amenities throughout the stadium to enhance the game day experience for the fans

 

Some of the amenities are probably ways to make more money from stadium.

[Draconator]

21 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Some of the amenities are probably ways to make more money from stadium.

That's smart business.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, Jukester said:

And you are so sure of this already? How about we reserve judgement til it actually exists and we’ve actually experienced its level of fan friendliness. 

How do you think people will feel sitting in virtually the same location, paying double to attend the game, freezing cold, and wet?

 

It’ll be sometime opening season that fans and media realize they were ripped off. “We paid $1.6 billion just to freeze our ass off?” “The canopies didn’t help, I was wet and cold.”

 

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, cba fan said:

we have gone over this and we disagree on it.

I still believe PSL money is Pegs. He choose to do PSL's as part of the funding and opening up the G4 loan from NFL.

Pegs and Bills have pd into the NFL G4 loan fund for decades and will pay in in perpetuity by taking Bills cut of tickets when they are on road when Bills are visitor. so it is Pegs money getting spent.

So i give it to Pegs on the ledger front.

 

I know you and some others do not agree.

 

It is just my categorization of it. Partially due to the following also:

 

If Pegs or other owner wanted to move a team to newer richer city, they could dig in, refuse to offer PSL's, then not Q for the G4 loan, and insist on more public funding that would not come, to then grease the wheel for the team to escape to richer pastures.

 

This option was very plausible for Pegs in this market and he could have dug in and insisted Bills WNY market cannot support PSL's and most believe that. Especially the State believes that as you read on:

 

and finally. This stadium deal is fundamentally different from every other PSL funding deals in history.

Pegs is funding all his portion up front including cost overruns to be determined completely separate from PSL money eventually brought in. And it has absolutely no bearing on how much, how little, or if any PSL money is raised. Or if 20 trillion is raised. Pegs is locked into the deal as is.

 

State wanted no part of this unknown and got Pegs to agree on the deal as is. 

 

 

 

You can mischaracterize PSLs any way you want, I guess.

 

But it is money that comes from season ticket buyers and is used to fund the stadium.  Therefore, obviously, it cannot in any way be described as coming from the the pockets of "Pegs".  And it is not "fundamentally different from every other PSL funding deals in history".  It is typical for owners to put their money up front for construction and then sell PSLs to recoup their money form their customers.  This is how Metlife was done, as was ATT in Dallas---and those were actually primarily privately funded. 

 

An actually fundamentally different PSL scenario involved Levis Stadium, where the team had to show they could raise 200 million in PSLs before the Goldman Sachs would lend $850 million to the public stadium authority. Erie and NYS didn't require that of Pegs...

 

Likewise,  The G4 loan program is funded, per the CBA, as a maximum of 1.5% of annual league revenue, so it's not something that Pegs has "paid into for decades".  It is, like player salaries, money that the owners never see in their coffers.   And as such, Pegs personally is not on the hook for such a loan.  He team can pay it back by not taking their cut of away game gate receipts.

 

This isn't a matter of different opinions...

 

[Matt_In_NH]

On 4/8/2023 at 11:28 AM, Utah John said:

I still can't believe the Pegulas get credit in this deal for the money collected from PSLs.  That's money from the fans, from the public, not from their own pockets. And they even get to count the money that it costs to sell and administer the PSLs.  

 

They ARE responsible for cost overruns, which could turn out to be a lot of money, so they're not getting off scott-free.  I just think the PSLs should be regarded as another category of funding for the stadium, so we could see more clearly who's paying what.

A lot of what's being counted as money from the Pegulas is actually money paid by the fans, for PSLs.  It's crazy.

Tax payers pay $600 million the Pegulas the rest no matter where it comes from who cares if it’s PSLs or selling pancakes or money they previously earned.  The point is it is theirs.  

[Buffalo716]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you think people will feel sitting in virtually the same location, paying double to attend the game, freezing cold, and wet?

 

It’ll be sometime opening season that fans and media realize they were ripped off. “We paid $1.6 billion just to freeze our ass off?” “The canopies didn’t help, I was wet and cold.”

 

Or we didn’t build a new stadium and the bills are in Austin Texas? What ????

 

It’s not about a grand football stadium… It’s about a football stadium

 

Everybody who is trying to make it more, Doesn’t realize the state and Terry Pegula just want a football stadium… To watch football in

 

And that’s what a lot of football fans want

[Matt_In_NH]

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you think people will feel sitting in virtually the same location, paying double to attend the game, freezing cold, and wet?

 

It’ll be sometime opening season that fans and media realize they were ripped off. “We paid $1.6 billion just to freeze our ass off?” “The canopies didn’t help, I was wet and cold.”

 

There are a percentage of fans who cannot handle cold and wet and generally find any reason in life to complain and a bunch who choose to dress for it enjoy it and revel in it.   We know which group you are in.  

[Gigs]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:30 PM, HOUSE said:

We need a smaller visitors locker room with 2 light bulbs. 

That's why you're not the owner, you're being too generous

[Don Otreply]

And? 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Eh, what's $0.14 billion? Inflation. In for a penny in for a pound. Get'R done. 😉

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[Utah John]

4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Tax payers pay $600 million the Pegulas the rest no matter where it comes from who cares if it’s PSLs or selling pancakes or money they previously earned.  The point is it is theirs.  

They get the money but it's not coming from their pockets, it's coming from the fans, the public.  Sure, fans don't have to buy tickets if they don't want to.  But they do want to.

 

When the Raiders moved back to Oakland, they charge a hefty PSL for the right to buy season tickets at Oakland Raiders games.  Those PSLs aren't worth anythng anymore.  

[Buffalo Super Fan]

15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you think people will feel sitting in virtually the same location, paying double to attend the game, freezing cold, and wet?

 

It’ll be sometime opening season that fans and media realize they were ripped off. “We paid $1.6 billion just to freeze our ass off?” “The canopies didn’t help, I was wet and cold.”

 

Bingo. At the end of day it’s up to the individual Buffalo fan which is fine. But Terry Pegula is this Buffalo Bills savior doing it just because he is a fan of the city of Buffalo is nonsense. It is way over the top from some Buffalo Bills fans and if you point that out they have a hissy fit saying your a fraud no longer a Bills fan at best at worst they run to the moderator to have anti Terry Pegula Bills fans silence. By moderators threatening permanent ban them from this Bills board which is ridiculous.
 

Again being a Buffalo Bills fan doesn’t mean you have to like that cheap bum Terry Pegula. The Buffalo Bills fans in my day many didn’t like Ralph Wilson. Ralph Wilson was a man though and took his critics not trying to silence or ban them for speaking out. As long as it wasn’t vulgar you were good. I wasn’t a Ralph Wilson fan because I am not a fan of owners in general. But at least he was a man and faced the music from his Buffalo fan critics. Terry Pegula is never held accountable for nothing lawyer up along PSE employees trying to ban Buffalo fans like myself from speaking or trying to change the conversation on the new Bills stadium it’s ridiculous. Go to twitter see how many like this new Bills stadium deal for one reason or the other in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Or we didn’t build a new stadium and the bills are in Austin Texas? What ????

 

It’s not about a grand football stadium… It’s about a football stadium

 

Everybody who is trying to make it more, Doesn’t realize the state and Terry Pegula just want a football stadium… To watch football in

 

And that’s what a lot of football fans want

What? If Terry Pegula just wanted a football stadium he could have built it himself or renovated Highmark Stadium with a dome so no one would have to waste money on heated seats that aren’t very efficient or environmentally friendly. I thought the Pegula’s were all hip for today’s environmentally friendly New York State. Wasting heat into the outside seems like a waste of energy and resources for the environmental New York State but what do I know I am old and I don’t know what I am talking about according to some Bills fans.
 

If the Buffalo Bills were reducing the capacity anyway remove the falling deck reducing the number of seats so the Bills get there reduced seating capacity to screw the Bills fan anyway which is what this is really all about if we have our Bills fans eyes open. But unfortunately some Bills fans eyes on there beer can instead of having there eyes on there wallet. Terry Pegula is going all Jerry Jones now ask Dallas Cowboys fans that got kicked out because of the cost of PSL’s when they moved from old Texas Stadium. Move the Highmark Stadium gate build a shell around the currant Highmark Stadium. Then a BC Lions Vancouver Whitecaps BC Place Stadium dome over Highmark Stadium would have worked and Buffalo would have gotten there down stadium with good sight lights in Orchard Park.
 

What’s the difference BSF? The difference is a dome so we don’t freeze and it can be used for more than 10 times a year. I would also have removable Highmark Stadium seats in the renovation so Highmark Stadium can host Toronto Blue Jays exhibition games yearly in the Highmark Stadium dome. So your not getting a 10 football games and nothing else facility for $1.5 billion dollars is just ridiculous waste of resources. I will bet the ranch the sight lines will suck in the new Bills stadium compared to Highmark Stadium. Because of building codes today and Highmark Stadium was grandfathered when they put the chair back seating in.
 

I think it’s ironic the Buffalo Bills tailgate crowd is grabbing onto the new Buffalo Bills stadium because it’s open air and in Orchard Park. And there are so many things they assume they are getting in the new Bills stadium that they most likely won’t be getting. And at the end of day when it’s too late they will howl the most because they will be the first ones in line to be suckered into PSL’s oh well get your popcorn ready to watch the show in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Buffalo Super Fan

[Buffalo Super Fan]

4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

There are a percentage of fans who cannot handle cold and wet and generally find any reason in life to complain and a bunch who choose to dress for it enjoy it and revel in it.   We know which group you are in.  

What about the Buffalo Bills fans that have health issues? What about the fact Erie County is a aging area of the country? Does that matter? You are trying to make it like it’s a tough guy thing or badge of honor. I went in blizzards back when I was healthy enough not just for the Buffalo Bills but the UB Bulls. The Buffalo Bisons were the best because you could get window seats in the restaurant to get around the freezing April cold weather. I once froze so badly at the Buffalo Bills game against the San Diego Chargers I couldn’t move my hand to make my power chair work. I had gloves on my brother in law thankfully had a blanket he bought he was using to put on my hand so I could get back to the car. And it sucked to battle the weather weekly as a Buffalo Bills and UB Bulls season ticket holder. I didn’t feel it was badge of honor at all. Again not all of us are in the same situation. It’s cold at these games and also for fans like me who are disabled in Power Wheelchairs we have to watch how much rain because it’s a power chair. I once had my power chair die at UB Stadium on the walk back at the end of the game because of nasty weather Miami Ohio RedHawks game with Ben Roelisburger it was a blizzard in the second half. Again sit in cold isn’t no badge of Buffalo honor. I only have been to one dome stadium football game ever the International Bowl Game in Toronto for the UB Bulls and I loved not freezing not having to layer on tons of clothes that isn’t enjoyable it’s a pain in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Jrb1979]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Or we didn’t build a new stadium and the bills are in Austin Texas? What ????

 

It’s not about a grand football stadium… It’s about a football stadium

 

Everybody who is trying to make it more, Doesn’t realize the state and Terry Pegula just want a football stadium… To watch football in

 

And that’s what a lot of football fans want

Unfortunately there isn't enough of you that will pay the prices that come with the new stadium. It's a big reason the majority of new stadiums across all leagues are making the stadium experience more important.