Pressure is on McBeane - PFT discussion

[jethro_tull]

The pressure has always been there, it is the nature of the job. 

A super bowl was the goal but they are still a very successful team and the regime has earned their stay for a few more years at least.  

 

[BillsFanSD]

10 hours ago, stuvian said:

We have the major pieces. Despite getting schooled at home vs Cincy I'm not ready for regime change. I felt we looked soft at times last year. I don't think the team recovered from the Damar incident mentally. 

 

I do, however, expect the team to address those issues or I will entertain change this time next year if we are in the same place.

Pretty much exactly where I am.  Football is a weird sport in the sense that a 17-game season followed by a single-elimination tournament creates a ton of variance.  Excellent teams get their seasons completely upended by injuries to individual players, weird bounces of the ball, officiating errors, etc.  You can't just assume that because your team is the best team on paper, it will automatically be there at the end.  Soccer, baseball, and basketball are all far more predictable than football IMO.  You can't be firing your HC or GM because of one season of under-performance or one horrific gut-punch.  

 

By and large, McBeane have done well. They've gotten us into the playoffs as a matter of course, and it's now the expectation that we win our division.  That's very good.  Huge step up from where we were.  

 

But like you said, it does feel like something is just off with this team.  It's not that they're just a player or two away, or something like that that would be easy to fix.  They're mentally and physically soft.  They're the Dungy-era Colts.  Plenty of talent on paper, and none of it matters when they encounter a good opponent with more spine. 

 

But maybe I'm wrong.  Or maybe I'm right and McBeane are already working to fix this problem.  For what they've accomplished so far, they deserve the benefit of the doubt for one more year.  If 2023 is like 2022, though, I'll probably be advocating for some new people.

[Since1981]

The bills have had the proper talent for 2-3 yrs. QB + Coach is NFL gap between playoff caliber and Super Bowl caliber. Mac Clappy can say he and OC/DC are Super Bowl caliber, that doesn’t make it so. 

[WideNine]

On 2/24/2023 at 12:57 PM, PBF81 said:

 

Allen's easily the most athletic QB to come to Buffalo, he may be the most athletic QB in NFL history.  He's definitely in the conversation.  Kelly wasn't as athletic, perhaps Kemp or another was close, but they weren't as good as Allen is otherwise. 

 

See my post above about Brady.  Belichick wouldn't have replaced Bledsoe with Brady if Mo Lewis hadn't made that decision for him.  Then on top of it he kicks us in the nuts by trading Bledsoe, one of the worst playoff QBs of all-time, to us.  Everyone said he was nuts to trade in the division, I said he was genius at the time.  LOL  

 

Here's my thing with Allen and his brain-farts as you put it, we don't know how he'd be playing if he had an offensive line that was better than a bunch of journeymen 1 and 2 year signees, changing significantly every single season since he's been here, or with decent overall direction otherwise.  I'd like to reserve final judgement on Allen's ultimate potential until I see him play with the same OL (for the most part) for at least two seasons, and with play-calling and competent coaching otherwise where he doesn't have to not only overcome the absence of a running game, but the defensive lapses of allowing 30-some points regularly in the playoffs either.  

 

 

 

I have a few comments on this.
 

• Allen's injury made short to intermediate throws more difficult to make as the way the injured elbow has to flex and the angles needed are more stressed with those throws than deeper ones (locked on Bills has a good pod cast on this with a guest speaker doctor).
  • However, even before the injury defenses were starting to pick up on tendencies and dial into how Allen likes to extend plays rolling to the right in the red zone where it seemed that they had come up with some different pressure and robber concepts to bait throws into uncharacteristic INTs.
  • We saw less turnovers in the red zone down the stretch so perhaps Allen and Dorsey were able to diagnose those things and come up with workarounds.
  • If someone has a good link to a breakdown of those turnovers I would love to see those. I just remembered Allen looking very bewildered and that usually happens when a defender peals away from an expected zone and drifts over to make that INT - where a QB just loses track of defenders after the pre-snap reads.
• Too many of Dorsey's calls seemed to lean into lower percentage downfield throws, particularly in places in games where a sustained drive was really needed to spell the defense and develop some offensive rhythm. We have pass-catching RBs, Knox, and some slot options we needed to use more.
• Upgrading the OL will help, but we need a run game identity that lends itself to the blocking up front that the coaches determine we can do with some higher degree of success, and the personnel packages for those runs that allow for successful play action passes. We have some good speed and shiftiness back there now, but a bruiser between the tackles in the mold of a Raheem Mostert would be great down the stretch with a lead in games.

 

On defense I feel like we lack some creativity and aggression on that side of the ball, we have coaches that are great with working out of defensive systems that are likely easy to teach and minimize risks. That will work against most QBs, but down the stretch against elite QBs you have to be willing to go after them, jam receivers at the line and challenge routes - you cannot sit back and wait. 

 

With that in mind, we also cannot ignore our lack of size on the DL, when Jones went down against the Bengals our DL got pushed around and they made it look EASY and they were able to run at will. This took a lot of pressure off their passing game. This defense does not work period without interior DL players that have the size and strength needed to successfully anchor or get push against double-teams to both collapse the pocket, and redirect and/or stuff the runs.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by WideNine

[TheWeatherMan]

On 2/24/2023 at 12:23 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

60% of the draft allocation is defense.

 

McDermott has gotten his way since 2017.

 

We can bring up he tried Peterman - not once, but twice.

My initial read on him when he was hired was he sounded like Jauron, a typical defensive coach who talked about snowy weather and the physical run game. 

 

13 seconds started his clock ticking, we all saw the passive prevent defense him and Frazier played against Cincinnati, showing they learned nothing from 13 seconds. Meanwhile the Bengals coaching staff had a great plan for Allen. 

 

He’s definitely under the microscope now, with Diggs starting to get more vocal now on every interview about what are we doing and the growing angst of Allen being asked about his elbow non-stop.

 

I think Kansas City was always the backstop. They are the bar of excellence. But to see you’ve also been passed by the Bengals now, has been a harder pill to swallow. 
 

Is he the Marty Schottenheimer of our era? And can Beane actually Draft well enough to stock the shelves? 

 

Exactly how I feel to a T.

[DCofNC]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:58 AM, H2o said:

I'm not saying McDermott is the coach we need long term, but look at Andy Reid in Philly. He won 6 division titles, 10 Playoff games overall, made 5 NFCC games, lost 3 NFCC games in a row, won the 4th of those NFCC games, and lost to the Pats in his only SB appearance. He then goes to KC, has a very talented group from FO to players, now has two Lombardi's, and is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. 

 

The pressure is squarely on the FO and coaching staff to get this right though. Everyone on the outside looking in says the exact same things. Sports media, fans, everyone sees the Bills need OL help and more weapons for Josh. No QB in the NFL has achieved more with less. 

Look at what Reid did for the career of every QB he ever had.  The guy took the offenses he had to the top of the league every year.  The teams always were very competitive, now he has the most talented QB to work with and he’s over the top, it’s no surprise.   The problem with a defensive coach and a great QB is the fact Allen can make you look great and boom there goes your coordinator.   Now you have to hire a new coach to remake the whole thing.  With  the head coach as the offensive mastermind, the team can be amazing and they don’t lose the scheme behind it.  
 

The same SHOULD be true for a defensive coach, yet when it counts, our D has folded like origami.   People are praying the D will change here and THATS your head coach’s bread and butter.   They have spent a ton on the D and is consistently destroyed by playoff teams.   Somebody should be held accountable and I see great progress with firing the Safties coach, it’s clear he’s why Po got hurt, Hyde missed most of the season and I think if you watch in slow motion you can actually see him turning Higgins should to hit Hamlin too.  Good riddance.

[Nihilarian]

This last playoff exit has everyone in an uproar because of that 27-10 beatdown by the Bengals at Buffalo. Most fans were shocked at that outcome and vented quite a bit in this forum...justifiably too. I know I wasn't happy about it and was scratching my head over that loss. The game just got out of hand early.  

 

Last year at 11-6 that playoff game in KC set the football world a fire because of the explosive offense by both teams...with some talking about the greatest playoff game ever!  You simply can't say that a 36-42 loss in OT in 2021... that Buffalo was destroyed. That 13 seconds screwup by the defense was a major letdown and probably cost Bills DC Leslie Frazier a head coaching job with a different team. I've always disliked that prevent defense and even McD was screaming about when he saw it. 

 

Bottom line: Buffalo lost their premier pass rusher in Von Miller and just couldn't get pressure on Joe Burrow. Joe does have a quick release and can get the ball out in 2 seconds or so at times. His average time from snap to release average was 2.54 and recently quickened that to 2.41 by the end of the season. The Bengals do have  good offensive minds in HC Zac Taylor along with OC Brian Callahan and they worked to get the Bengals offense schemed to get the ball out quicker.

 

Let's not forget that while Buffalo did have the #2 overall offense this season...they also had a rookie OC calling plays. It showed at different times. Losing Bills OC Brian Daboll did hurt the offense. Although Ken Dorsey is a smart guy and he was Josh Allen's choice for OC. Allen is a pretty smart guy too and together they will work things out. 

 

Even without out their best pass rusher the Buffalo Bills still finished 13-3, and #2 in defensive points allowed, #6 in yards defensive allowed in 2022. 

 

I think this Buffalo brain trust realizes that they need stronger O line, run game. Better defensive line too. I have faith that this HC / GM will find the right players to be on top of the AFC east again for 2023. Let's see what happens.

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I have a few comments on this.
 

• Allen's injury made short to intermediate throws more difficult to make as the way the injured elbow has to flex and the angles needed are more stressed with those throws than deeper ones (locked on Bills has a good pod cast on this with a guest speaker doctor).
  • However, even before the injury defenses were starting to pick up on tendencies and dial into how Allen likes to extend plays rolling to the right in the red zone where it seemed that they had come up with some different pressure and robber concepts to bait throws into uncharacteristic INTs.
  • We saw less turnovers in the red zone down the stretch so perhaps Allen and Dorsey were able to diagnose those things and come up with workarounds.
  • If someone has a good link to a breakdown of those turnovers I would love to see those. I just remembered Allen looking very bewildered and that usually happens when a defender peals away from an expected zone and drifts over to make that INT - where a QB just loses track of defenders after the pre-snap reads.
• Too many of Dorsey's calls seemed to lean into lower percentage downfield throws, particularly in places in games where a sustained drive was really needed to spell the defense and develop some offensive rhythm. We have pass-catching RBs, Knox, and some slot options we needed to use more.
• Upgrading the OL will help, but we need a run game identity that lends itself to the blocking up front that the coaches determine we can do with some higher degree of success, and the personnel packages for those runs that allow for successful play action passes. We have some good speed and shiftiness back there now, but a bruiser between the tackles in the mold of a Raheem Mostert would be great down the stretch with a lead in games.

 

On defense I feel like we lack some creativity and aggression on that side of the ball, we have coaches that are great with working out of defensive systems that are likely easy to teach and minimize risks. That will work against most QBs, but down the stretch against elite QBs you have to be willing to go after them, jam receivers at the line and challenge routes - you cannot sit back and wait. 

 

With that in mind, we also cannot ignore our lack of size on the DL, when Jones went down against the Bengals our DL got pushed around and they made it look EASY and they were able to run at will. This took a lot of pressure off their passing game. This defense does not work period without interior DL players that have the size and strength needed to successfully anchor or get push against double-teams to both collapse the pocket, and redirect and/or stuff the runs.

 

Not much to disagree with there, but that puts it on the coaching and on Beane, and I agree with that.  BTW, I was actually defending Allen.  

 

It's difficult to tell, since we don't know the plays, the "strategy" to the extent there is any by Dorsey, Allen's audibles, the conversations between Allen & Dorsey.  To that extent, while I understand what that doctor said in the interview about Allen not being able to throw shorter effectively, I noticed that he really hadn't been doing that to the extent that he had in '21.  Whether that was Daboll vs. Dorsey, who knows, but he also didn't excel at it regardless.  That's been a weakness of his since he's been here.  I'm sure that it's correctible as Allen's pretty Brilliant.  He's impressed me with his intelligence.  

 

Again, my biggest concern is that they piss him off by not doing their part to help him out, and he opts out of his contract after three more seasons.  Like I implied, if that happens, good luck getting a dime for PSLs in that new stadium.  

[Chicken Boo]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:21 PM, Billl said:

What top coaching candidate is going to take the job if McDermott were to get fired after the amount of success he’s had?

 

There would be no shortage of guys jumping at the chance to coach Josh Allen.  That's for sure.

[TheFunPolice]

There's a TON of injury luck involved too. The Eagles just played 95% of the NFC Title Game against a team faced with the choice of having a RB playing QB or have the QB with a busted UCL who couldn't even throw a screen pass hand off every play. That game was over after the 1st offensive series for SF when Purdy went down.

 

One hit in the 1st quarter and that game went from 50/50 to basically a bye for the Eagles to the Super Bowl. But you've got to be there to be lucky. Can you imagine the Bills being in the AFC Title Game and it's the 1st quarter and Devon Singletary is lining up at QB? 

 

If this year's Bills team faced a 2 game schedule of the Giants and then facing a Pop Warner level offense for 3 full quarters we would have been in the Super Bowl too. 

 

I get the school of thought that says we've got a good HC and a good staff and eventually they will break through, if given enough chances. The problem is that we have a defensive coach whose defense doesn't show up in the playoffs. That worries me more than anything else. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Fan in Chicago]

17 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

 

 

Let's not forget that while Buffalo did have the #2 overall offense this season...they also had a rookie OC calling plays. It showed at different times. Losing Bills OC Brian Daboll did hurt the offense. Although Ken Dorsey is a smart guy and he was Josh Allen's choice for OC. Allen is a pretty smart guy too and together they will work things out. 

 

 

 

Our window for the Superbowl was open. It is known that Allen needs some reigning in. It was known that we don't have a great OL.

 

Why then did Beane give the reins to a rookie OC? He should've taken Allen's input and explained why an experienced OC was the right option got this team, at this time.

 

I am not buying this excuse.

[Punching Bag]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:12 PM, ScottLaw said:

IDo I see that happening even with a down year? Nah. The Pegulas trust him and they are somewhat clueless owners so my guess is they’d just defer to “continuity”. 

 

Poster clearly is expert at being clueness with many years of history to demonstrate.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

wonder what next years excuse will be.. 

 

lost too much ( including pro bowl level) talent in free agency to replace in one off season?

 

The new safeties and MLB need more time in the scheme? 

 

Allens elbow kept him from working on his short pass game this offseason?

Diggs heart isn’t in it anymore? 
 

o line still I needs to gel?

 

Need an upgrade at RB? 

 

 

🤔

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

Our window for the Superbowl was open. It is known that Allen needs some reigning in. It was known that we don't have a great OL.

 

Why then did Beane give the reins to a rookie OC? He should've taken Allen's input and explained why an experienced OC was the right option got this team, at this time.

 

I am not buying this excuse.

First, looking at the offensive line from the end of last season... they played well and because of that, as a result of that good play, it gave Beane a solid reason to go with some of the same players. Some were injured, some regressed and some new players didn't live up to their contracts. Stuff happens! 

 

Beane gave the OC job to the QB coach because that is what his franchise QB asked for and wanted. Ken Dorsey had been the Buffalo Bills QB coach since 2019. Not for nothing that Buffalo's offense finished the season #2 overall on offense. That equals Brian Daboll's 2020 best season as Buffalo OC. I'd say that's pretty darn good for a first-year OC. Would the team have done better had Brian Daboll stayed as OC, perhaps? 

 

So, no excuse is needed here. 

 

The Buffalo team fell flat against the Bengals and now almost every Buffalo Bills fan is pointing fingers everywhere, at everyone. Yes, it sucks they lost in the playoffs again, at home, by a wide margin. Nobody saw this coming. Not with the team that was expected to be in the SB this season by almost everyone. 

 

I'm pretty certain that the Buffalo HC and GM themselves are still searching for answers as to why the team lost focus for the biggest home game of the season. Some say it was from being emotionally drained by the circumstances surrounding Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin. Probably because nobody in the entire history of the NFL had to endure almost losing a teammate to cardiac arrest on...the...field...during...a...game. 

 

Another thing I'm certain of is...that those men will make improvements to the team and Buffalo will be right back in the hunt for 2023. I'm moving on and looking forward to the draft, free agency, and the new upcoming season. Buffalo has one of the very best young QBs in the league and that SB window should be open for a long time! 

 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

Regime change. My god. Look at Iraq! Terry Pegula better have his ducks in a row if he’s pulling that cord. McBeane built this thing into a perennial division winner and playoff winner. The hump appears to have not been gotten over, but they built this thing this far. And Terry has some things on his plate that he may not want to blowup that right now. McBeane is here for a while. The most we could ask is that Sean and Brandon are made to be held accountable through reflection of everything top to bottom and declared adjustments and adaptations.  

[ArtVandalay]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:00 AM, balln said:

I was saying early this year, pressure is ratcheting up on McD. Needed to make super bowl this year - team looked stacked early in the year. Now national media ( i think of all the talking heads - sims and florio are the most reasonable and legit ) starting to recognize McD and Beane arent getting the job done. Sims is a little more on the side of needing more impact players which I agree. I still think think the right move was keeping Daboll and leaving frazier and McD in kc parking lot after 13 seconds (and hous and kc playoff game poor D performances)

 

 

100% can't agree any more. This was pretty much proven true this year with Dabol winning Coach of The Year and seeing the Bills utterly colapse in the post season vs Miami and Cinci both at home. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Lol @ Coach of the Year meaning something.