Question for OC Dorsey

[frostbitmic]

Knox dropped a TD in the end zone that ended in a FG, that's 4 points left on the field.

 

Shakir's drop left between 3 and 7 points on the field.

 

That's 7-11 points that would've put 41 or 45 points on the board, somehow I don't think that Dorsey is the problem.

[Buffalo03]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

My God man, do you even watch the games? He HAS thrown them a LOT this year. The first two games of the year we were complaining as to why all of the throws were checkdowns.

Yes, I do watch the games. I've noticed all season long that Allen has taken a lot more deep shots than the past 2 years. I'm sorry, I'll correct myself from saying all season long. What I meant was since the bye week. They have changed what they are doing since the bye week. The offense was a lot more affective the first 6 games because they were running more of the shorter routes. They haven't really been doing it much since the bye week

[Big Turk]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Yes, I do watch the games. I've noticed all season long that Allen has taken a lot more deep shots than the past 2 years. I'm sorry, I'll correct myself from saying all season long. What I meant was since the bye week. They have changed what they are doing since the bye week. The offense was a lot more affective the first 6 games because they were running more of the shorter routes. They haven't really been doing it much since the bye week

 

Perhaps they have noticed tendencies in coverage that lead to them doing it?

 

I'm not sure. I think everything is gameplan specific. Bills have also been running the ball a lot against light boxes instead of throwing so perhaps some of those checkdowns turned into runs?

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

You won't find me saying it was a great game from Allen 

 

All I'm saying if the expectation is 70% for 400 and 4/0 (which is his line minus the picks and drops) we should probably examine why that is and if it's very realistic

I don’t think I’ll ever find you saying anything negative about the bills. Ever.  Which is fine, it’s a bills message board and many never like to discuss negative aspects about their favorite past time.  
 

I don’t feel that we should be worried as next week is different game, but Josh leading the league in turnovers is a problem.  Daboll clearly had a calming affect on Josh and Josh misses him.  I knew he would be a big loss but I didn’t think Josh would revert to turning the ball over so much.   

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think I’ll ever find you saying anything negative about the bills. Ever.  Which is fine, it’s a bills message board and many never like to discuss negative aspects about their favorite past time.  
 

I don’t feel that we should be worried as next week is different game, but Josh leading the league in turnovers is a problem.  Daboll clearly had a calming affect on Josh and Josh misses him.  I knew he would be a big loss but I didn’t think Josh would revert to turning the ball over so much.   

I will freely admit to finding it hard to criticize this team rn👍

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

My God man, do you even watch the games? He HAS thrown them a LOT this year. The first two games of the year we were complaining as to why all of the throws were checkdowns.

I don’t really understand what’s going on on these boards haha I’m all for anyone criticizing whoever…it is a message board after all…but this notion that Allen has a clean pocket and open throwing lanes to wide open guys underneath on every play is absurd.  Especially yesterday.  
 

and even if he did, every qb in the league is going to take the wide open go route over the wide open dumpoff to a rb.  It was just such a bizarre gameplan from Miami on defense that I think people just aren’t wrapping their heads around it lol I honestly hope the chiefs and bengals try to imitate that.  Miami traded probably 60 free points if we could connect on routine plays for a couple turnovers. 
 

With the identical gameplan from the offense we easily could’ve won that game 50+ to 30+ .  Miami was just selling out for the turnovers and despite just about everything going right for them they still gave up 34 and lost 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You won't find me saying it was a great game from Allen 

 

All I'm saying if the expectation is 70% for 400 and 4/0 (which is his line minus the picks and drops) we should probably examine why that is and if it's very realistic

Seems like Miami was counting on us not looking deep because they were hoping josh doesn’t like getting criticized on bills message boards 😂. Their gameplan just makes no sense to me

[BillsVet]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

They lack athletic linemen to execute those plays.  Morse is the only one who can move around in space well.  The rest of the o-line are plodders and maulers.  It's a symptom of competing goals - McD wants to be able to power-run and they've brought on bigger linemen throughout Beane's tenure.  But that's not a scheme that meshes well with what Josh is able to do.

 

That sort of strategic mis-alignment just never gets addressed in the off-season and they've had 2 since Josh's breakout 2020 season to do it.  I'd really like to know who during off-season reviews stands up for and pounds the table for offense.  If the GM is focused on acquiring pieces and managing the cap, then the HC is setting their strategic priorities and those rate offense behind his beloved defense.        

 

Ironically, the first thing McD did as Buffalo's HC was rebuild the secondary.  I guess he understands the passing offense is predominantly featured by other teams, but wants his to be balanced.  Makes you wonder.   

 

 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Josh‘s hero-ball tendencies are not Dorsey’s fault.  There were plenty of options open underneath all day but Josh’s desire to make the big play overrides proper decision making. His avg depth per throw was 16 Sunday - highest of any QB all year (NFL avg is 8).  If you think that’s Dorsey drawing up 39 deep shots you're crazy. 
Dorsey might not be perfect but we had 300 and 20 pts in the first half.  Add in two enormous drops and we’re looking at 500 and 40 for the game.  
Love Josh but he’s a Ferrari without breaks and Dorsey has to manage that. 

[Peter]

I do not understand the hyper criticism of Dorsey by some in the media, social media, and here.

 

We scored 34 points NOTWITHSTANDING the turnovers.

 

If we have issues, it is NOT Dorsey or should I say:

 

"Ninety-nine problems but [Dorsey] ain't one.'

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

They lack athletic linemen to execute those plays.  Morse is the only one who can move around in space well.  The rest of the o-line are plodders and maulers.  It's a symptom of competing goals - McD wants to be able to power-run and they've brought on bigger linemen throughout Beane's tenure.  But that's not a scheme that meshes well with what Josh is able to do.

 

Actually I think McDermott wants to be a zone run team. We start every year trying to feature zone runs, are bad at it and finally get some semblance of run game going late with more gap scheme. It has happened 3 years in a row now. The other issue on screens is we don't sell them very well. I do agree broadly on the offensive line though. I don't feel like they have ever had a clear identity of what they want there. The drafted Dion (who certainly early was athletic for a big guy... maybe a bit less so as he gets older and struggles to keep the weight off) and signed Morse arguably the most athletic "finesse" center in football. But then they went for Quinton Spain and Jon Feliciano who are road grading maulers. Then Williams who is more athletic. Then Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle who are huge humans with questionable technique while developing two guards in Ike and Ryan Bates who are more technical in their blocking. Then Saffold who (in his prime) was a road grader. 

 

For a team that has basically run the same fundamental offensive scheme for 5 years it is bizarre the way they have flipped and flopped on what they are looking for up front. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually I think McDermott wants to be a zone run team. We start every year trying to feature zone runs, are bad at it and finally get some semblance of run game going late with more gap scheme. It has happened 3 years in a row now. The other issue on screens is we don't sell them very well. I do agree broadly on the offensive line though. I don't feel like they have ever had a clear identity of what they want there. The drafted Dion (who certainly early was athletic for a big guy... maybe a bit less so as he gets older and struggles to keep the weight off) and signed Morse arguably the most athletic "finesse" center in football. But then they went for Quinton Spain and Jon Feliciano who are road grading maulers. Then Williams who is more athletic. Then Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle who are huge humans with questionable technique while developing two guards in Ike and Ryan Bates who are more technical in their blocking. Then Saffold who (in his prime) was a road grader. 

 

For a team that has basically run the same fundamental offensive scheme for 5 years it is bizarre the way they have flipped and flopped on what they are looking for up front. 

Nitpicking but Williams is not athletic, he had an RAS of like 2.5 I believe.  Another human door hinge.

 

SOMEONE is targeting these guys.  It’s so odd.  Teller was an athletic pulling guard and they got rid of him for more plodders.  If McD is trying to run outside zone, who the hell is writing these grocery lists?

Edited January 17, 2023 by Coach Tuesday

[MAJBobby]

My question is Ken. On Sunday did you call sheet glitch and say on the Verticals Section?  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:07 PM, GoBills808 said:

34 points

 

Could easily have been 50

What offense in the NFL do you like better? 

 

 

On a separate note -

 

Dorsey did a great job with the media this week.

 

Backed the weak Buffalo media up when they questioned the turnovers and why don’t the Bills run more. 
 

Mentioned “confidence” a bunch of times. 
 

You have to be confident to stride into this Bengals team and win. 
 

Checking down and and “playing power ball” as our Reporters are begging for is not going to work.

 

The Bengals play in the AFC NORTH against the Browns, Steelers and Ravens. They are used to teams trying to run them over and playing ugly football.

 

The Bills have Josh Allen and Diggs and Davis. They’re going to take some shots. 
 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[HappyDays]

11 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Absolutely no one will try to duplicate this dolphins game plan…they had to go for broke because they were such a big underdog.

 

Truest statement in the thread. There's nothing to glean about our offense in this game because we will never run into this style of defense again. I don't think it's fully settled in with Bills fans how weird the Dolphins gameplan was. The book on Allen is go 2 high and don't give him any deep windows. The Dolphins did the exact opposite on almost every snap. I guess the plan sort of worked but giving up 34 points in a game that featured numerous drops and fluky bounces of the ball that favored the defense is not a sustainable style of play.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

My question is Ken. On Sunday did you call sheet glitch and say on the Verticals Section?  

Miamis play sheet glitched on cover 1 press so that’s kind of how it goes.  We were running a deep cross to pull the safety and then the outside guys were beating the press 1 on 1 down the sideline.  
 

That was the weirdest football game I’ve ever seen lol it’s a look a team with a qb like Allen and receivers like davis and diggs would be begging an opponent to play all game and the dolphins did it and almost won.  
go routes down the sideline seem to be the only thing davis really excels at and the dolphins were just giving it to us all game 😂
 

in a not so distant alternate universe josh hits on a couple more of those deep throws he missed by inches and he’s got 500+ passing yards and 5 tds

Edited January 17, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Nitpicking but Williams is not athletic, he had an RAS of like 2.5 I believe.  Another human door hinge.

 

SOMEONE is targeting these guys.  It’s so odd.  Teller was an athletic pulling guard and they got rid of him for more plodders.  If McD is trying to run outside zone, who the hell is writing these grocery lists?

 

Yea athletic probably the wrong word. He had decent feet though Williams for a man his size. Not so much the type you are going to pull but he had quick feet in his pass sets.

 

The one thing that might be part of a reason is they are onto their 3rd oline coach. Maybe that is part of the disjointed thinking? 

Edited January 17, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think I’ll ever find you saying anything negative about the bills. Ever.  Which is fine, it’s a bills message board and many never like to discuss negative aspects about their favorite past time.  
 

I don’t feel that we should be worried as next week is different game, but Josh leading the league in turnovers is a problem.  Daboll clearly had a calming affect on Josh and Josh misses him.  I knew he would be a big loss but I didn’t think Josh would revert to turning the ball over so much.   

Josh had 36 TDs and 15 Ints in 2021 with 17 games and a mid-season lull.

 

Josh had 35 TDs and 14 Ints in 2022

(in 16 games) and Gabe drops a touchdown against the Patriots.

 

Why the narrative? 

 

 

5 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Miamis play sheet glitched on cover 1 press so that’s kind of how it goes.  We were running a deep cross to pull the safety and then the outside guys were beating the press 1 on 1 down the sideline.  
 

That was the weirdest football game I’ve ever seen lol it’s a look a team with a qb like Allen and receivers like davis and diggs would be begging an opponent to play all game and the dolphins did it and almost won.  
go routes down the sideline seem to be the only thing davis really excels at and the dolphins were just giving it to us all game 😂
 

in a not so distant alternate universe josh hits on a couple more of those deep throws he missed by inches and he’s got 500+ passing yards and 5 tds

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, took more checkdowns to Singletary. 
 

That’s how you win. 
 

Constant checkdowns, riding Cole Beasley and using Diggs as a decoy. 

[Srw1525]

Dorsey is doing just fine. Scores over 30 with 4-5 turnovers in the game. Some plays at certain times were questionable but we we won and advance. Dorsey is just getting started, as he grows as an OC, he will get better.

[Green Lightning]

16 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

You know things can be gameplan specific to attack weaknesses of teams right?

Geez really? Who knew? Here's a weakness we can exploit, stop going 3 and out with the season on the line in the 4th quarter by scheming some makable passes to keep the chains moving.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Josh had 36 TDs and 15 Ints in 2021 with 17 games and a mid-season lull.

 

Josh had 35 TDs and 14 Ints in 2022

(in 16 games) and Gabe drops a touchdown against the Patriots.

 

Why the narrative? 

 

 

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, took more checkdowns to Singletary. 
 

That’s how you win. 
 

Constant checkdowns, riding Cole Beasley and using Diggs as a decoy. 

I’m talking about turnovers-  you’re talking about interceptions.  

 

The narrative?  Ummmmm….. maybe because Josh led the league in turnovers.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-turnovers-by-a-nfl-player-in-2022

 

The 3 turnovers were the reason our season almost ended vs a 3rd string qb.  No other reason.  Just the turnovers.  Take them out of the equation and we blow them out. Going into yesterday, he had 2 playoff turnovers (1 int, 1 fumble) in 6 games.  He more than doubled that on Sunday.   
 

my post was directed to 808 in regards to him never saying anti-bills, even when there’s obviously an issue.  Josh’s turnovers are worrisome to 99.9% of the professional football world, only to be blown off by select mafia members. 
 

You can find stats to try and twist things up to prove whatever point you want to make.  My point was- turning the ball over is the biggest error a player can make on the football fields and Josh led the league in errors. He had 3 more in a playoff game where we were favored by 14 and won by a FG vs a 3rd string qb who was terrible.  
 

hence the narrative