Will DeAndre Hopkins be available this offseason?

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree on alot of this, and mainly he needs to get us that SB! 

 

But we are very close and key defensive injuries have happened last 2 years.  Not an excuse, just fact.  Tre in 2021, Hyde/Von in 2022.

 

We need a bit of luck to stay healthy, which is what every SB winner basically needs.

 

Beane has done too much, in short order, and future looks too bright (mainly Josh, but others), to give any time frame on Beane as of now

That's just pure speculation.  And suits your own agenda to go for it now. 

Naturally, it's speculation. I don't know the future, neither do you. One speculates. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Sorry my point was not clear.  It's all about the future cap implications to me. 

 

People can have different opinions, or even strategies, with hoe the future cap space should be managed.  

 

I'd consider myself 'moderate', not conservative, but realizing we already kicked the can on many high-$ contracts.  Voided years on Hyde, Dion, Von, and restructures on top of that.  I realize other teams are more aggressive, ie: Miami, possibly Jets with a Rodgers contract.  But to me, we've already leveraged enough future cap

 

I tend to agree with you.  The thing is, Beane could do this DHop deal and make the numbers work for this year.

What fans have to realize is he will have to roll out of another player the following year when DHop's money comes due.

There are no "magic bullets" in this cap stuff.

 

KC keeps getting brought up in these talks, but the facts are they have 6 players above $10M per year contracts.

They have been at that number (7 last season) for a number of years.  That's how THEY play the game.

 

Bills have 9 over $10M and fans want to add another.  That is not going to last much longer.

 

I would be excited if DHop is on the team, but I also see the extreme need to get Knox off the line and into the passing game.

He is going to cost $14.4M next season.  To get him off the line you need to invest in the line.  Lots of ways to skin these cats!

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Naturally, it's speculation. I don't know the future, neither do you. One speculates. 

You talked in certainties, specifically about team dissension (in worse case).

 

You are making up speculation to fit your agenda.

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

But to me, we've already leveraged enough future cap

 

Have we? According to Over the Cap the expected salary cap in 2024 is $256 million. We currently have $252.5 million in cap hits that year. That's without accounting for any potential restructures and cuts. Just as one example I quickly explored, we could cut Morse and Poyer next offseason to save $14 million against the cap in 2024. I don't know, I don't see even a hint of cap trouble and that's before diving into every possible restructure and other possible cuts. Partly because we haven't drafted that well we don't have any looming major extensions. Maybe Rousseau in 2025 if he continues on his current trajectory but that's it.

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Have we? According to Over the Cap the expected salary cap in 2024 is $256 million. We currently have $252.5 million in cap hits that year. That's without accounting for any potential restructures and cuts. Just as one example I quickly explored, we could cut Morse and Poyer next offseason to save $14 million against the cap in 2024. I don't know, I don't see even a hint of cap trouble and that's before diving into every possible restructure and other possible cuts. Partly because we haven't drafted that well we don't have any looming major extensions. Maybe Rousseau in 2025 if he continues on his current trajectory but that's it.

Gabe or Ed?

 

That's probably another topic altogether.  

 

I see your point, and you seem to understand mine.  All good, Go Bills!

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

You talked in certainties, specifically about team dissension (in worse case).

 

You are making up speculation to fit your agenda.

Agenda is a word with negative connotations -- it subtly implies an ideological distortion or putting one's thumb on the scales.

"Falling short anywhere similar to the last two years is going to bring a lot of dissension. I don't think the long game is psychologically realistic." 

I stand by that. Built into the first bolded is a subjunctive -- "if this happens, then," so it is not a certitude. And I think taking into consideration the likely psychological results is germane to how one strategizes building the team. 

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Agenda is a word with negative connotations -- it subtly implies an ideological distortion or putting one's thumb on the scales.

"Falling short anywhere similar to the last two years is going to bring a lot of dissension. I don't think the long game is psychologically realistic." 

I stand by that. Built into the first bolded is a subjunctive -- "if this happens, then," so it is not a certitude. And I think taking into consideration the likely psychological results is germane to how one strategizes building the team. 

I don't agree that we build a team worried about Josh or Diggs being malcontents, if we don't win a SB in next 2 years.  Or team psychological impacts/dissension.

 

I've said enough on my opinion.  Looking forward to seeing what plays out and the draft.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree on alot of this, and mainly he needs to get us that SB! 

 

But we are very close and key defensive injuries have happened last 2 years.  Not an excuse, just fact.  Tre in 2021, Hyde/Von in 2022.

 

We need a bit of luck to stay healthy, which is what every SB winner basically needs.

 

Beane has done too much, in short order, and future looks too bright (mainly Josh, but others), to give any time frame on Beane as of now

That's just pure speculation.  And suits your own agenda to go for it now. 

I agree completely.  I thought we had the team this year but the injuries on D and having a rookie OC were too much to overcome.  Just wasn’t meant to be.

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Have we? According to Over the Cap the expected salary cap in 2024 is $256 million. We currently have $252.5 million in cap hits that year. That's without accounting for any potential restructures and cuts. Just as one example I quickly explored, we could cut Morse and Poyer next offseason to save $14 million against the cap in 2024. I don't know, I don't see even a hint of cap trouble and that's before diving into every possible restructure and other possible cuts. Partly because we haven't drafted that well we don't have any looming major extensions. Maybe Rousseau in 2025 if he continues on his current trajectory but that's it.

 

Wow, Spotrac has this year's cap at $224.8M and already has next year's at $235M.  That $256M is a huge increase estimate.

Be that as it may, it only means that all the players will want more.  It's not about the number for one team, it's league wide.

Teams with more cap space will just start paying $30M for OTs and $60M+ for QBs.  Vet minimum's, rookie contracts and even PS

players get more every year too.

 

It's all relative.

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Cheap/talented labor is the missing piece, to long term success.  This has propelled Cincy, KC, and even the Jets in recent years.  Miami is living in a house they can't afford, we don't want to be in the same spot 2 years from now

 

Can you be propelled to last place in the division? 

[BillsFanForever19]

32 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Have we? According to Over the Cap the expected salary cap in 2024 is $256 million. We currently have $252.5 million in cap hits that year. That's without accounting for any potential restructures and cuts. Just as one example I quickly explored, we could cut Morse and Poyer next offseason to save $14 million against the cap in 2024. I don't know, I don't see even a hint of cap trouble and that's before diving into every possible restructure and other possible cuts. Partly because we haven't drafted that well we don't have any looming major extensions. Maybe Rousseau in 2025 if he continues on his current trajectory but that's it.

 

There's a major disparity between OTC and Spotrac for next year's cap. I don't know if OTC is already factoring in what they expect the cap to be next season before it's been confirmed or what the deal is there - but Spotrac has us 17.5+ over already in '24

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2024/

Edited March 26, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Airseven]

34 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Some folks think that as long as we have Josh Allen, we're in the discussion for a SB means a conservative approach at player acquisition and building through the draft is the best counsel. I think if we don't win a SB in the next few years, Diggs won't be the only one who is irate with the regime. Josh Allen is in a legacy competition and Mahomes is up 2-0, Burrow has two number 1 receivers, and the conference seemingly keeps adding premium players. Win one now might very well open up more success later. Falling short anywhere similar to the last two years is going to bring a lot of dissension. I don't think the long game is psychologically realistic.

Allen is no more in a “legacy competition” than Herbert, Jackson, Lawrence, etc. How exactly has Allen ascended into a “legacy competition”? He hasn’t accomplished anything. Give me a break.

[Zerovoltz]

From the outside looking in....

 

Hopkins for the Bills....would be alot like when KC signed Sammy Watkins.  That contract was way too much, and it really wasn't needed.  

 

Could the Bills use some help in the WR room?  Sure...but I can't stress this enough....Josh Allen is the rare QB who elevates whoever is out there and spending a TON on Hopkins isn't going to improve Allen or your offenses stats in any way that would be remotely close to to being worth Hopkins contract and whatever draft picks you give up.  The Bills still sit at 3rd best SB win odds as we sit here after FA, and pre draft.  Thats Allen.  Hopkins would NOT move the needle.

 

If you are going to invest some draft capital at WR, you'd be much better off trying to haggle with the Broncos over Juedy.  2 years of cost control for a player who has suffered from CRAP coaching and CRAP QB play....metrics say his YAC and separation are GREAT.  That should be your target.

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

From the outside looking in....

 

Hopkins for the Bills....would be alot like when KC signed Sammy Watkins.  That contract was way too much, and it really wasn't needed.  

 

Could the Bills use some help in the WR room?  Sure...but I can't stress this enough....Josh Allen is the rare QB who elevates whoever is out there and spending a TON on Hopkins isn't going to improve Allen or your offenses stats in any way that would be remotely close to to being worth Hopkins contract and whatever draft picks you give up.  The Bills still sit at 3rd best SB win odds as we sit here after FA, and pre draft.  Thats Allen.  Hopkins would NOT move the needle.

 

If you are going to invest some draft capital at WR, you'd be much better off trying to haggle with the Broncos over Juedy.  2 years of cost control for a player who has suffered from CRAP coaching and CRAP QB play....metrics say his YAC and separation are GREAT.  That should be your target.

Definitely worth consideration. I think it probably will cost 27 and there is likely more competition for him.

[stevestojan]

Has anyone answered the OP? 
 

I believe the answer is yes. 
 

seems like we could have saved 147 pages. 

[4merper4mer]

Any updates on this?

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Definitely worth consideration. I think it probably will cost 27 and there is likely more competition for him.

We’re not trading White.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

Any updates on this?

We’re not trading White.

Pick #27 in the first round.

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Pick #27 in the first round.

That would be monumentally stupid too.

Edited March 26, 2023 by 4merper4mer

[JohnBonhamRocks]

8 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

Has anyone answered the OP? 
 

I believe the answer is yes. 
 

seems like we could have saved 147 pages. 

I did. Page 94. 🍻

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

How is trading for Hopkins going to stop us from building through the draft? We're talking about at most one 2nd round pick. The cap space issue I at least understand the concern there. As far as the trade compensation itself that's not even a consideration for me. Who really cares?

 

The benefit of trading a 2nd is that McBeane don't have a chance to over-draft a Cody Ford, Boogie Basham, or James Cook type player.  

 

8 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

From the outside looking in....

 

Hopkins for the Bills....would be alot like when KC signed Sammy Watkins.  That contract was way too much, and it really wasn't needed. 

 

KC signed Watkins to that 3 year 16 AAV contract with one 1,000 yard season on his then 4 year NFL career.

 

Hopkins is a 10 year vet with 6 1,000+ seasons with 5 1st or 2nd All-Pro selections. 

 

The only similarity is the cost of the contract, of which Watkins' was in UFA as opposed to what comes over in a prospective trade.