Injuries NOT an excuse. Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury thru Week 11

[Royale with Cheese]

29 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Dane Jackson wants to know why he was left off this list 😅 He missed the Dolphins game with the neck injury.

 

That's right!!

[Behindenemylines]

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

They're 8-3.  Are we making excuses for them winning?

No but we should be at worst 9-2 and probably 10-1 which changes the dynamic 💯.  Maybe I’m in the minority but if our DC wasn’t so reluctant to change game plans to react to the opponents strengths we would be 1 seed.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

that said…..our offense needs to fix itself or we won’t win the SB

 

The Bills are the #2 scoring offense in the NFL.  They're averaging 1.5 fewer points/game than KC, who is #1.

[Royale with Cheese]

42 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The Ravens last year and 49ers in 2020 were teams that were decimated with season ending injuries to key players so that's a bit different IMO.

 

But looking at the Bills, sure we've have some key injuries to important players but so far the only one of note lost for an extensive period of time was Hyde in week 2. If Miller is gone for the year that would certainly be another major blow.

 

Also the Cowboys have missed some of those players in question this year and have been just fine also sitting at 8-3. The Bengals are another team that has been hit hard with injuries since the beginning of the year and are 7-2 after and 0-2 start.

 

At the end of the day every team is effected differently but I stand with the original premise of this thread that if the Bills fail to live up to expectations (which is anything short of of a SB appearance) injuries won't be a valid excuse unless a bunch of other key guys land on season ending IR the coming weeks.

 

Never at any point of the season did the Cowboys and Bengals miss their entire starting secondary, both starting DE's, 2 starting DT's and had 3rd/4th stringers playing a lot...that's just defense. 

 

We have had All Pros miss over 30 games combined.  Not just All Pro's...high level players and back ups as well.

 

Yes, if by the end of the year we are mostly healthy except for Hyde....then yes, injuries won't be an excuse.  Injuries is an excuse for why our defense isn't playing at the level they should be right now.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Royale with Cheese

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The Ravens last year and 49ers in 2020 were teams that were decimated with season ending injuries to key players so that's a bit different IMO.

 

But looking at the Bills, sure we've have some key injuries to important players but so far the only one of note lost for an extensive period of time was Hyde in week 2. If Miller is gone for the year that would certainly be another major blow.

 

Also the Cowboys have missed some of those players in question this year and have been just fine also sitting at 8-3. The Bengals are another team that has been hit hard with injuries since the beginning of the year and are 7-2 after and 0-2 start.

 

At the end of the day every team is effected differently but I stand with the original premise of this thread that if the Bills fail to live up to expectations (which is anything short of of a SB appearance) injuries won't be a valid excuse unless a bunch of other key guys land on season ending IR the coming weeks.

What’s our record again?  
 

How many games has Jesse Bates missed?  Von Bell?  Trey Hendrickson?  Pratt?  Hilton?  Micah parsons?  Trevon Diggs?  Demarcus Lawrence? Vander esche?  
 

WHO has been injured is a big part of why we’ve lost the games we’ve lost.  Especially when you look at the specific plays that won and lost each game.
 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

They're 8-3.  Are we making excuses for them winning?

 

For this board...yes.  

 

Some on this board think we are 3-8.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The Bills are the #2 scoring offense in the NFL.  They're averaging 1.5 fewer points/game than KC, who is #1.

Thanks for the info.  How about break down the last 4 games instead?  Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now.  What have you done for me lately @Gugny?  Our offense has been sputtering if you haven’t noticed.  

 

The steelers were 11-0 in 2020.  The cardinals were 7-0 in 2021.  Meant nothing because they sucked down the stretch. 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Thanks for the info.  How about break down the last 4 games instead?  Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now.  What have you done for me lately @Gugny?  Our offense has been sputtering if you haven’t noticed.  

 

The steelers were 11-0 in 2020.  The cardinals were 7-0 in 2021.  Meant nothing because they sucked down the stretch. 

 

 

 

We've averaged almost 30 points scored the last 3 weeks though.  

[TH3]

12 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

No but we should be at worst 9-2 and probably 10-1 which changes the dynamic 💯.  Maybe I’m in the minority but if our DC wasn’t so reluctant to change game plans to react to the opponents strengths we would be 1 seed.

So you must have coached? - Have the All-22? Maybe you can teach us?

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

We've averaged almost 30 points scored the last 3 weeks though.  

 

As Nate Geary has stated....we've slept walked to 30 ppg.  What will happen once we get rolling again?

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Thanks for the info.  How about break down the last 4 games instead?  Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now.  What have you done for me lately @Gugny?  Our offense has been sputtering if you haven’t noticed.  

 

The steelers were 11-0 in 2020.  The cardinals were 7-0 in 2021.  Meant nothing because they sucked down the stretch. 

 

 

 

I've noticed that over the past four weeks that the Bills have scored an average of 26.5 points/game - which, for the season, is 4th best in the NFL.

 

I'm not going to sit here and say that the offense has been great.  They haven't.  They've been inconsistent and sloppy.

 

But the fact of the matter is that the team is 8-3 because of the offense; and they are, indeed, the 2nd best scoring offense in the league.

 

With all of the injuries on defense, the pressure is on the offense.  Frankly, I think they're doing a great job, overall.

[Behindenemylines]

1 minute ago, TH3 said:

So you must have coached? - Have the All-22? Maybe you can teach us?

No I just watch the games.  When your getting beat consistently in the same fashion and don’t change your strategy your either stubborn or stupid. I don’t think DC is stupid.  How many 3-longs must we give up for people to realize.

[Amaru523]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Thanks for the info.  How about break down the last 4 games instead?  Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now.  What have you done for me lately @Gugny?  Our offense has been sputtering if you haven’t noticed.  

 

The steelers were 11-0 in 2020.  The cardinals were 7-0 in 2021.  Meant nothing because they sucked down the stretch. 

 

 

Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now, just like the last few weeks will mean nothing in January.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Hard to not be skeptical they go this route…. They’ve proven they prefer defense time and time again…. Hell, McD and Beane told us multiple times how good Davis is and he is proof that you don’t need to take WRs early this past off season. 
 

You have a great Safety prospect sitting there at the end of round 1 vs a great WR prospect…. Going to have to keep McDermott out of the room to not take the safety. 

 

They are going BPA.  I hope it's a WR that's still sitting there...maybe a guard.  But whoever is the top person on their board, they will take.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

We've averaged almost 30 points scored the last 3 weeks though.  

We played the Lions- the worst scoring D in the league.  The Browns - the 3rd worst scoring D in the league.  And Packers-  tied for the 10th worst scoring D in the league (and gave up almost 400 yards of rushing O last night).  
 

do you watch the games?  Do you think our offense looks good? 

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've noticed that over the past four weeks that the Bills have scored an average of 26.5 points/game - which, for the season, is 4th best in the NFL.

 

I'm not going to sit here and say that the offense has been great.  They haven't.  They've been inconsistent and sloppy.

 

But the fact of the matter is that the team is 8-3 because of the offense; and they are, indeed, the 2nd best scoring offense in the league.

 

With all of the injuries on defense, the pressure is on the offense.  Frankly, I think they're doing a great job, overall.

See above

5 minutes ago, Amaru523 said:

Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now, just like the last few weeks will mean nothing in January.

No….but they mean everything RIGHT NOW…… while we’re having the conversation about the current team…… which is what we’re talking about…..

 

I said we have to fix our offense…..so this can mean nothing in January.  

[Process]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hard to not be skeptical they go this route…. They’ve proven they prefer defense time and time again…. Hell, McD and Beane told us multiple times how good Davis is and he is proof that you don’t need to take WRs early this past off season. 
 

You have a great Safety prospect sitting there at the end of round 1 vs a great WR prospect…. Going to have to keep McDermott out of the room to not take the safety. 

I’m with you. As you know I thought it was a bigger priority last off-season that was ignored…. 

The thought of us going defense in round 1 makes me ill.

 

Assuming Edmunds is resigned the draft should look something like this

 

WR

OL

OL

TE

WR

DB

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m with you. As you know I thought it was a bigger priority last off-season that was ignored…. 

 

I can see why Davis was thought to be a #2.  He has been someone they have been developing and see him every day in practice.  He wasn't given the targets because of Sanders and John Brown in his first two years.  He didn't step up this year and now we know we need a better #2.  

Davis will probably finish this year with about 60 receptions, about 900 yards with about 7 TD's.  Not bad but not consistent enough.

[BearNorth]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I am 100% on a firm stance with #2 WR being our main priority in the offseason.

Gabe Davis is a #3 at best.  He's a guy you want to make the big play down the field but not to rely on consistently throughout a game.

 

How will this #2 be paid for?  Josh's huge contract kicks into high gear next year, we have to either pay or replace Edmunds, Von's cap hit goes up $13MM.  We can hope we get lucky drafting between 25 and 32 with a wide out, but that's about it.  We have Davis at a draft discount for next year, but then he will make at least the $10MM that Bobby Trees is making.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Amaru523 said:

Weeks 1 and 2 mean nothing right now, just like the last few weeks will mean nothing in January.

No….but they mean everything RIGHT NOW…… while we’re having the conversation about the current team…… which is what we’re talking about…..

 

I said we have to fix our offense…..so this conversation will hopefully mean in january

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, BearNorth said:

How will this #2 be paid for?  Josh's huge contract kicks into high gear next year, we have to either pay or replace Edmunds, Von's cap hit goes up $13MM.  We can hope we get lucky drafting between 25 and 32 with a wide out, but that's about it.  We have Davis at a draft discount for next year, but then he will make at least the $10MM that Bobby Trees is making.

 

We don't need a top flight, big money FA WR in the offseason.

 

John Brown type level and contract. 

 

Or our #25-#32 picks on a WR if the board falls that way.

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hard to not be skeptical they go this route…. They’ve proven they prefer defense time and time again…. Hell, McD and Beane told us multiple times how good Davis is and he is proof that you don’t need to take WRs early this past off season. 
 

You have a great Safety prospect sitting there at the end of round 1 vs a great WR prospect…. Going to have to keep McDermott out of the room to not take the safety. 

I’m with you. As you know I thought it was a bigger priority last off-season that was ignored…. 

Meanwhile we’ve never drafted a S before rd 6 since he’s been here.  
 

it wasn’t ignored.  It wasn’t filled how you (or I) wanted it to be filled.  Crowder, Mckenzie and Shakir were added.  Cook was supposed to add more help.  They took the value route @WR so they could fix the defense that got destroyed 2 seasons in a row to end each season. 
 

If the D ever gets healthy, we’ll find out if they made the right choice.  Our d is suffering because of injury.  Not talent.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Their tendencies suggest BPA at positions they prefer… one first round pick on offense since 2018(excluding the trade for Diggs).

 

They prefer defense. That mindset needs to change because that strategy isn’t sustainable to winning IMO.

 

Well you can't exclude Diggs, a 1st round pick was used on him.

 

A strong defense with a great QB is definitely sustainable.  The 49ers have been Super Bowl contenders for the last few years with Jimmy G as QB.  

Of the top 10 NFL scoring defenses, only 2 aren't above .500 and one is the Bucs who are one game below.  

 

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Meanwhile we’ve never drafted a S before rd 6 since he’s been here.  
 

it wasn’t ignored.  It wasn’t filled how you (or I) wanted it to be filled.  Crowder, Mckenzie and Shakir were added.  Cook was supposed to add more help.  They took the value route @WR so they could fix the defense that got destroyed 2 seasons in a row to end each season. 
 

If the D ever gets healthy, we’ll find out if they made the right choice.  Our d is suffering because of injury.  Not talent.

 

Cook is coming around now.

 

Not sure why Shakir has been invisible since the Ravens game.

 

I think we need Knox incorporated more in the passing game.

 

I think Allen's slump is over and we will start seeing more consistency on offense.

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Their tendencies suggest BPA at positions they prefer… one first round pick on offense since 2018(excluding the trade for Diggs).

 

They prefer defense. That mindset needs to change because that strategy isn’t sustainable to winning IMO.

It surely didn’t last season.  Prior to last season, Beane had drafted 1 CB, Dane Jackson in last round.  They showed they were ok starting corners that possessed zone experience and attributes over physical attributes.  
 

they had shown that CB was not a position they preferred.  Yet drafted a one in rd 1.  

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well you can't exclude Diggs, a 1st round pick was used on him.

 

A strong defense with a great QB is definitely sustainable.  The 49ers have been Super Bowl contenders for the last few years with Jimmy G as QB.  

Of the top 10 NFL scoring defenses, only 2 aren't above .500 and one is the Bucs who are one game below.  

 

 

Cook is coming around now.

 

Not sure why Shakir has been invisible since the Ravens game.

 

I think we need Knox incorporated more in the passing game.

 

I think Allen's slump is over and we will start seeing more consistency on offense.

Agree on all points minus Allens slump.  I hope so, but I think part of his slump has to do with Dorsey and the OL.  

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea ignored is too strong a word, more like they put it on the back burner…they went quantity over quality on offense to focus on defense…. And as a result, yet again Josh has to carry the team on his back because he’s got Diggs and nothing else around him….He continues to take a beating because of it. 
 

I stand by my opinion it’s not a strategy for long term success to stack defense. The offseason should be offensive oriented….even if that means the defense takes a bit of a hit. 

Agreed.  I hope to see lots of O with our draft picks this year.  
 

that said, I’m happy with our D and hope to see what they can do when somewhat healthy.  The D can dominate when the pieces are all there.  

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I don’t disagree at all… I also don’t think it’s realistic to have all those D pieces healthy…. And unfortunately the defense seems to revert back to average if even one prominent piece misses some time. 

 

I don't understand the bolded.  We are #5 in NFL defensive scoring with more than one prominent piece missing.

Our prominent piece last year was Tre White....our defense still finished #1 in defensive scoring.

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think LT could be something they look at closer to Dawkins reaching his upper 20's.

Might be wise to do and move the Shnowman to OG.   Saffold is a one and done.  

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

But defense in general is a group that they absolutely prefer. That is my point. 

Ok, you said position.  
 

The only unit they prefer over any other unit based on their FA and draft tendencies has been DL.  
 

If you consider paying our All pro safeties, CB and LB a “preference”, so be it.  They keep their best players that are crucial to the defense reaching its potential while putting extreme emphasis on rushing the passer

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Might be wise to do and move the Shnowman to OG.   Saffold is a one and done.  

 

I don't think you downgrade LT to help LG.  

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t disagree at all… I also don’t think it’s realistic to have all those D pieces healthy…. And unfortunately the defense seems to revert back to average if even one prominent piece misses some time. 

We’ve missed almost Hyde all season.  That’s ONE.  We don’t know what we look like if we’re only missing one prominent piece because we’ve been missing more than one every game since Hyde got hurt.

[freddyjj]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think you downgrade LT to help LG.  

What if a stud LT is on the board in Rd 1?   Guess they could use a real RT too.  

[FilthyBeast]

52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What’s our record again?  
 

How many games has Jesse Bates missed?  Von Bell?  Trey Hendrickson?  Pratt?  Hilton?  Micah parsons?  Trevon Diggs?  Demarcus Lawrence? Vander esche?  
 

WHO has been injured is a big part of why we’ve lost the games we’ve lost.  Especially when you look at the specific plays that won and lost each game.
 

 

 

I'm not going to deny that the injuries this team have suffered have suffered have been very specific in terms of the timing and importance of the position.

 

But I still think it's misleading (and concerning) if we are to expect an entire defense and scheme to completely fall apart because of one or two guys out on a given week. And if this is the case what does it say about both coaching and roster construction?

 

At the end of the day though I don't believe it matters if this defense heads into the playoffs at full strength or very close to it because it's not going to stop the inevitable in terms of going to a place like KC again and having Mahomes and that offense drop 400+ yards and 30+ points on us.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I'm not going to deny that the injuries this team have suffered have suffered have been very specific in terms of the timing and importance of the position.

 

But I still think it's misleading (and concerning) if we are to expect an entire defense and scheme to completely fall apart because of one or two guys out on a given week. And if this is the case what does it say about both coaching and roster construction?

 

At the end of the day though I don't believe it matters if this defense heads into the playoffs at full strength or very close to it because it's not going to stop the inevitable in terms of going to a place like KC again and having Mahomes and that offense drop 400+ yards and 30+ points on us.

Can you point out the given week that there were only one or two guys out on defense?

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I'm not going to deny that the injuries this team have suffered have suffered have been very specific in terms of the timing and importance of the position.

 

But I still think it's misleading (and concerning) if we are to expect an entire defense and scheme to completely fall apart because of one or two guys out on a given week. And if this is the case what does it say about both coaching and roster construction?

 

At the end of the day though I don't believe it matters if this defense heads into the playoffs at full strength or very close to it because it's not going to stop the inevitable in terms of going to a place like KC again and having Mahomes and that offense drop 400+ yards and 30+ points on us.

One or two guys.  Lol.  That’s not what is happening

[DCbillsfan]

37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can you point out the given week that there were only one or two guys out on defense?

Week 1 against the Rams.  White was out.  I think that's the only game.  Oliver was hurt in the Rams game and Hyde and Jackson were hurt game 2 against the Titans.  

[FilthyBeast]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

One or two guys.  Lol.  That’s not what is happening

 

You are acting like we've missed Oliver/Hyde/Poyer/Edmunds/Milano/Groot/etc all together for multiple games.

 

My point is that's not the reality of the situation and it's really been one or two of these key guys at a time which still sucks but should change the entire defense and integrity of the scheme.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Hard to not be skeptical they go this route…. They’ve proven they prefer defense time and time again…. Hell, McD and Beane told us multiple times how good Davis is and he is proof that you don’t need to take WRs early this past off season. 
 

You have a great Safety prospect sitting there at the end of round 1 vs a great WR prospect…. Going to have to keep McDermott out of the room to not take the safety. 

I’m with you. As you know I thought it was a bigger priority last off-season that was ignored…. 

 

I understand the scepticism. I was offensive line, receiver or corner last year and the way this year has played out I don't think I was wrong that corner was a need, is a premium position that can sink your season if you are bad there, and that simply taking Dane Jackson playing well as a given would be foolish. I do not see safety next year the same way. Yes, it is likely a need. But it is simply not a premium position in the same way. I think they will draft a safety in the first two days of the draft. I do not think that should be in the first round. 

 

Receiver or Offensive Tackle. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

You are acting like we've missed Oliver/Hyde/Poyer/Edmunds/Milano/Groot/etc all together for multiple games.

 

My point is that's not the reality of the situation and it's really been one or two of these key guys at a time which still sucks but should change the entire defense and integrity of the scheme.

No, I’m definitely not.  
 

But you are definitely acting like we’re missing only Hyde or Hyde plus ONE other key player every week.  That is not the case.  

[Bad Things]

I cannot believe anyone who has been watching and following our season would come to the conclusion that injuries have not affected us.

That's ridiculous.

[Logic]

These charts shows that the Bills are actually the 2nd or 3rd MOST AFFECTED by injury of any team in the NFL.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Logic