GunnerBill Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 20 minutes ago, PBF81 said: That's the most puzzling thing. It seems that with us, sometimes the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and they're acting independently. Same thing with Hines, we trade for a prolific pass catching RB, talk about how he'll be used, and then don't use him, at all. ... as one example. I don't think they planned to draft a tight end. They planned to draft a receiver but knew they needed a weapon for Josh and Dalton is more a receiver than a two way tight end in any event at this point. Of his 784 offensive snaps in 2023 he only played tight end on 247 of those and almost 50% came in the five games Knox missed. He was 50% a slot receiver, 31% a tight end, 18% split wide and 1% in the backfield. So I don't think they drafted him for his tight end skill so much as they drafted him for his pass catching. Not that I'm arguing receiving tight ends and wide receivers are completely interchangeable, they are not. And while the Bills played a fair amount of 12 personnel in 2023 they have to remain balanced with 11. But I don't think they were planning to replace Knox going into the 2023 draft, or coming out of it. However, where they are now I'm not sure they are going to be able to be a 60% plus 12 personnel team. But equally I don't think you can yet go heavy 11 with Dalton Kincaid and have the flexibility to run or pass down to down. They are going to have to be a bit more package specific with them in the short term. I suspect another year of both of them, let Kincaid work on his blocking (there was some improvement as 2023 wore on) and then next spring I can imagine them taking calls for Knox for a mid round pick. As long as he continues to be an effective redzone weapon (and at the moment in the redzone I think Knox is still BETTER than Kincaid) he will have trade value. On the pass receiving back thing I think you have more of a point about there being a disconnect somewhere. Beane has obsessed over pass catching backs since he has been here. They have had multiple goes at filling that role - from TJ Yeldon, to the guy they tried to get from Washington (McKissic), to drafting Cook and talking specifically about his ability as a receiver to trading for Hines. But they have never truly committed to it as part of their offense. Check downs are not actually Josh's strongest suit. His ball placement is better 25 yards downfield than it is sometimes on those check down routes. Joe Brady used the back a lot both at LSU and at Carolina, and showed signs of committing to it last year when he took over so maybe finally they will be in sync - and if Cook can clean up the concentration drops in the redzone they could be onto something. But that will be after at least 5 years of trying! The other area where I have always felt they were muddled in their thinking is the type of oline they wanted and tried to build. They veered from big physical run graders, to athletic guys who can move laterally, and ended up with a cobbled together mess for about 3 seasons. That can only be a disconnect Beane and the coaching staff as to scheme and style. I think they have consistently wanted to build a zone run game but that is really hard with a Quarterback who wants to be in the gun as much as Josh. I dunno, just feel like Daboll and Dorsey were both culpable for trying to force something that wasn't working and McDermott and Beane were ultimately culpable for not setting a clearer direction of travel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Move Knox to defensive end. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 12:02 PM, Nephilim17 said: Most people were happy. @Back2Buff @Einstein @Wayne Arnold were not fans of the extension. And they took heat for it. You are not allowed to criticize Allen and Beane on this board. This fanbase has rose colored glasses constantly on for these two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzboy54 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I don't get this, I thought the first contract was too generous for a guy that wasn't that good. He basically lost his starting job to Kincaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: And if Knox hadn't missed a third of the year with wrist surgery? Honestly the people using 2023 as proof that they were "right" on Dawson Knox are premature in the extreme. Or if he hand not played a significant portion of the season with a broken wrist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Knox is a good player. A bit inconsistent, but he’s good. His true value lies somewhere between $8-$10M/yr and is likely what he would have got had he hit the open market prior to this offseason (where I expect a number of deals to be inflated). He’s not only making a bit more than he should, but his importance as a receiver has lessened with the addition of Kincaid. It’s not a Star Lotuleile egregious contract, but it isn’t one of Beane’s better decisions/extensions. Similarly, I have no idea what he was thinking giving Diggs a 4 yr $96M extension at his age. Diggs was due a pay raise, but should’ve got half the length. A 2 yr $48M extension would’ve made much more sense and he’d be a 32 year old when it expired, looking for what would likely be his final contract. That deal was probably worse than Knox’s. The Von contract was worse than all, but only because of injury. After shedding a number of guys and fixing the cap issues when he first became GM, Bills are now 32nd ranked in cap because of Beane’s bad spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, Brand J said: Knox is a good player. A bit inconsistent, but he’s good. His true value lies somewhere between $8-$10M/yr and is likely what he would have got had he hit the open market prior to this offseason (where I expect a number of deals to be inflated). He’s not only making a bit more than he should, but his importance as a receiver has lessened with the addition of Kincaid. It’s not a Star Lotuleile egregious contract, but it isn’t one of Beane’s better decisions/extensions. Similarly, I have no idea what he was thinking giving Diggs a 4 yr $96M extension at his age. Diggs was due a pay raise, but should’ve got half the length. A 2 yr $48M extension would’ve made much more sense and he’d be a 32 year old when it expired, looking for what would likely be his final contract. That deal was probably worse than Knox’s. The Von contract was worse than all, but only because of injury. After shedding a number of guys and fixing the cap issues when he first became GM, Bills are now 32nd ranked in cap because of Beane’s bad spending. Yet we were still the 2 seed the last 2 years. The problem is if these bad contracts aren’t addressed properly going forward. Beane was just handed a giant gift with the huge cap increase this year and going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Yet we were still the 2 seed the last 2 years. The problem is if these bad contracts aren’t addressed properly going forward. Beane was just handed a giant gift with the huge cap increase this year and going forward. Oh yeah, things could def be worse. We could be 31st in cap savings and not nearly as competitive (Saints). A lot of that has to do with our QB though. Things would be quite different if David Carr was throwing passes for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, Brand J said: Oh yeah, things could def be worse. We could be 31st in cap savings and not nearly as competitive (Saints). A lot of that has to do with our QB though. Things would be quite different if David Carr was throwing passes for us. Agreed. We won 6 games in row including a playoff game and took KC to the brink with no or minimal contributions from Tre, Milano, Von, and Knox… 4 of our 7 highest cap hits. I will be disappointed if Beane doesn’t use the next 3 weeks to clean up the cap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Knox cost $2.6M in 2022 and $6.3M in 2023 in cap hits. This season his $14.3M is more than his worth BUT if Beane wants to move on from him next year he has a $7.8M dead cap hit. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. I don't see him on the team after 2024 unless he really tears it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 59 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Knox cost $2.6M in 2022 and $6.3M in 2023 in cap hits. This season his $14.3M is more than his worth BUT if Beane wants to move on from him next year he has a $7.8M dead cap hit. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. I don't see him on the team after 2024 unless he really tears it up. I think he is a quality complementary piece and has proven valuable when targeted in the red zone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: Knox cost $2.6M in 2022 and $6.3M in 2023 in cap hits. This season his $14.3M is more than his worth BUT if Beane wants to move on from him next year he has a $7.8M dead cap hit. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. I don't see him on the team after 2024 unless he really tears it up. I could see Knox being a team guy and renegotiating, even taking less, to stay with Josh and the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBillsForLife Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Knox is a good player but he's being paid like he's an elite player when he's not even the best TE on the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: And if Knox hadn't missed a third of the year with wrist surgery? Honestly the people using 2023 as proof that they were "right" on Dawson Knox are premature in the extreme. He misses time every year. Unreliable hands and unreliable, as far as availability is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 He's a Nashville guy right? Anyone know the ramifications of trading him $ wise? Titans have boatloads of space if interested. Maybe he's worth a 4th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: He's a Nashville guy right? Anyone know the ramifications of trading him $ wise? Titans have boatloads of space if interested. Maybe he's worth a 4th? There is almost no way to unload Knox without eating his dead cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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