Buffalo hates Eichole so much, he had to drop the price on his condo

[PetermansRedemption]

If I was looking for a 1 million dollar place, downtown Buffalo would be one of the last places I look. Give me any of the affluent surrounded suburbs any day. At least there, your tax dollars go to better services. Why live in the city, pay the city taxes, and get the city services (plowing for example). 
 

In addition to that, this location just isn’t that good. Usually you get some walkability in a downtown place. But there really isn’t that much around that area to walk to. I also find it interesting that about 2 blocks away are the subsidized marine towers that are practically falling apart. You have one million dollar condos 2 minutes from subsidized housing. 

[sullim4]

I tend to agree - 1.2MM for a condo in Buffalo is crazy for the market conditions there.  Typically you see that kind of pricing on the significantly larger/nicer mansions that players and coaches are trying to offload around Orchard Park.

 

Even in Seattle... the 1.2MM condo market can get you a unit with a view of Elliot Bay, though admittedly with less square footage.  With the property taxes in Erie County, I just don't see the appeal of sharing a wall with someone and paying $1.2MM for the privilege.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Where's the closest grocery store, Niagara St.?  No thanks on Front Park.

[4merper4mer]

OP you misspelled Eichole.

[TBBills]

They should just burn it down and start again.

[boater]

21 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

Where's the closest grocery store, Niagara St.?  No thanks on Front Park.

There's a Braymiller Market on Ellicott Street. I hear it's nice. https://www.braymillermarket.com/locations/downtown-buffalo-market/

[Marv's Neighbor]

10 hours ago, boater said:

There's a Braymiller Market on Ellicott Street. I hear it's nice. https://www.braymillermarket.com/locations/downtown-buffalo-market/

OK.  IF I lived there, which I don't, I'd be looking for a Tops or Wegmans.  Do you still have to get back to Porter Ave., to get in/out of that location?

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 5/6/2022 at 4:29 PM, PetermansRedemption said:

If I was looking for a 1 million dollar place, downtown Buffalo would be one of the last places I look. Give me any of the affluent surrounded suburbs any day. At least there, your tax dollars go to better services. Why live in the city, pay the city taxes, and get the city services (plowing for example). 
 

In addition to that, this location just isn’t that good. Usually you get some walkability in a downtown place. But there really isn’t that much around that area to walk to. I also find it interesting that about 2 blocks away are the subsidized marine towers that are practically falling apart. You have one million dollar condos 2 minutes from subsidized housing. 

That's pretty much all of the city of Buffalo. You can leave a million dollar home walk 200 feet and be in middle of a poor neighborhood or projects. It's crazy how fast the neighborhoods change. 

 

There's a guy in wheatfield that built a mansion over looking a run down trailer park. I don't get it. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos

[Rockpile233]

 

5 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

That's pretty much all of the city of Buffalo. You can leave a million dollar home walk 200 feet and be in middle of a poor neighborhood or projects. It's crazy how fast the neighborhoods change. 

 

Exactly why I’m trying to get out of the city. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:03 PM, Marv's Neighbor said:

Where's the closest grocery store, Niagara St.?  No thanks on Front Park.

Yeah..  BFLo's got issues in that locale for the affluent!

6 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

That's pretty much all of the city of Buffalo. You can leave a million dollar home walk 200 feet and be in middle of a poor neighborhood or projects. It's crazy how fast the neighborhoods change. 

 

There's a guy in wheatfield that built a mansion over looking a run down trailer park. I don't get it. 

Hyde Park in Chicago is no different.  

Edited May 9, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[SoTier]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:25 AM, Not at the table Karlos said:

That's pretty much all of the city of Buffalo. You can leave a million dollar home walk 200 feet and be in middle of a poor neighborhood or projects. It's crazy how fast the neighborhoods change. 

 

There's a guy in wheatfield that built a mansion over looking a run down trailer park. I don't get it. 

 

That's just the nature of upscale urban living, in Buffalo or Boston or Chicago or Omaha or anywhere in the US.

 

If this condo was in Allentown or the Delaware District or within walking distance of the Elmwood Strip, it would probably bring more than list price because of bidding wars.  Those neighborhoods have "urban ambiance" that attract wealthy people who reject the suburban life-style found in Clarence or Orchard Park.  Waterfront Village is more like a suburban condo/townhouse development close to downtown.

[PromoTheRobot]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:56 PM, SoTier said:

 

That's just the nature of upscale urban living, in Buffalo or Boston or Chicago or Omaha or anywhere in the US.

 

If this condo was in Allentown or the Delaware District or within walking distance of the Elmwood Strip, it would probably bring more than list price because of bidding wars.  Those neighborhoods have "urban ambiance" that attract wealthy people who reject the suburban life-style found in Clarence or Orchard Park.  Waterfront Village is more like a suburban condo/townhouse development close to downtown.

 

And for at least 60% of the year the weather is so brutal you can't enjoy being on the waterfront.

[Mr. WEO]

$340 a foot for that McCondo??

 

yikes...

[djp14150]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:12 AM, Draconator said:

True, and $1 Million homes (Single Family or Condo) attract a very specific type of buyer in Buffalo. $1 Million Condo's in say Hilton Head gets you about 2 blocks from the beach.

 

to me in buffalo this housing market is insane the last couple years.

 

the last housing boom of 2004-2008 skipped over buffalo.

 

im curious who the buyers are….

 

1. Are they true local home buyers

2. are they people who work out of nyc/ Boston/dc decide to work remotely from buffalo. It’s an easy 1 hrflight if they need to go into work.

3. high cost cities having folks sell their home and move to buffalo pocketing 50% of their old house sale for retirement 

4. pure investors

 

this is true with all secondary markets out there.

 

the housing price value does not coincide with regular workers income.  My rule on house buying is going to under 3.5 your household income at the start of a 30 yr mortgage for new home buyers.  If it’s above that it’s going to seriously strain you financially. If a couples combined income is $125K you can’t low $$400K depending on down payment amount.

 

ilook at the home I grew up in.

 

the value generally fluctuated between $65K-$80K for years.  My parents bought in in mid 60s. Ehrn my dad entered nursing home we had to sell it for a loss. It needed work.  
 

it was bought once as a fix up. It was sold again as a second fix up. I guess the first didn’t have skills to do some of the work.  It then sold for about double its historic avg value.  Thsts why I don’t see it retaining that value long term given its basically a starter home.

Edited May 16, 2022 by djp14150

[Draconator]

41 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

to me in buffalo this housing market is insane the last couple years.

 

the last housing boom of 2004-2008 skipped over buffalo.

 

im curious who the buyers are….

 

1. Are they true local home buyers

2. are they people who work out of nyc/ Boston/dc decide to work remotely from buffalo. It’s an easy 1 hrflight if they need to go into work.

3. high cost cities having folks sell their home and move to buffalo pocketing 50% of their old house sale for retirement 

4. pure investors

 

this is true with all secondary markets out there.

 

the housing price value does not coincide with regular workers income.  My rule on house buying is going to under 3.5 your household income at the start of a 30 yr mortgage for new home buyers.  If it’s above that it’s going to seriously strain you financially. If a couples combined income is $125K you can’t low $$400K depending on down payment amount.

 

ilook at the home I grew up in.

 

the value generally fluctuated between $65K-$80K for years.  My parents bought in in mid 60s. Ehrn my dad entered nursing home we had to sell it for a loss. It needed work.  
 

it was bought once as a fix up. It was sold again as a second fix up. I guess the first didn’t have skills to do some of the work.  It then sold for about double its historic avg value.  Thsts why I don’t see it retaining that value long term given its basically a starter home.

 

There are all kinds of buyers. I'll give you an example from a sale I had last year. It was a house in the village of Orchard Park. Total remodel from water coming through the walls of the basement, to the roof caving in in the upstairs bathroom, to the roof on the house needing a full replacement. Total disaster. I listed it at $169K. It sold for $208K cash offer. The buyer was local that just wanted to be in the village of Orchard Park. They have since done a full remodel on the home and it is wonderful! 

[Mango]

On 5/6/2022 at 5:30 PM, sullim4 said:

I tend to agree - 1.2MM for a condo in Buffalo is crazy for the market conditions there.  Typically you see that kind of pricing on the significantly larger/nicer mansions that players and coaches are trying to offload around Orchard Park.

 

Even in Seattle... the 1.2MM condo market can get you a unit with a view of Elliot Bay, though admittedly with less square footage.  With the property taxes in Erie County, I just don't see the appeal of sharing a wall with someone and paying $1.2MM for the privilege.

I am a bit biased, I grew up and lived a good portion of my adult life on the WS and EV. I get wanting to live in the city. 
 

But he could have like 2500 square feet and a beautiful home on Richmond, Anderson, Linwood, Dorchester, etc. for like half the price. 
 

His place would be very low on my choices city or suburbs. 

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

to me in buffalo this housing market is insane the last couple years.

 

the last housing boom of 2004-2008 skipped over buffalo.

 

im curious who the buyers are….

 

1. Are they true local home buyers

2. are they people who work out of nyc/ Boston/dc decide to work remotely from buffalo. It’s an easy 1 hrflight if they need to go into work.

3. high cost cities having folks sell their home and move to buffalo pocketing 50% of their old house sale for retirement 

4. pure investors

 

this is true with all secondary markets out there.

 

the housing price value does not coincide with regular workers income.  My rule on house buying is going to under 3.5 your household income at the start of a 30 yr mortgage for new home buyers.  If it’s above that it’s going to seriously strain you financially. If a couples combined income is $125K you can’t low $$400K depending on down payment amount.

 

ilook at the home I grew up in.

 

the value generally fluctuated between $65K-$80K for years.  My parents bought in in mid 60s. Ehrn my dad entered nursing home we had to sell it for a loss. It needed work.  
 

it was bought once as a fix up. It was sold again as a second fix up. I guess the first didn’t have skills to do some of the work.  It then sold for about double its historic avg value.  Thsts why I don’t see it retaining that value long term given its basically a starter home.

 

I can only speak about Buffalo's housing market west of Main Street because that's the area I know best.  In that area, Buffalo's real estate market has been booming for more than a decade, especially west of Main Street.  The prices in the most desirable West Side neighborhoods -- Allentown, Richmond Ave, Elmwood Village, Delaware District -- have skyrocketed, and that's meant an overflow of gentrification into parts of the Lower West Side, Black Rock, Connecticut Street, etc.  North Buffalo has also been a desirable area going back to the 1980s, and its become even more so.  Most of single family homes in these neighborhoods as well as many of the two family homes are owned by people who live in them.   All these neighborhoods have lots of single family homes with some decent/interest architecture that appeal to modern buyers.  Many of the grand old mansions and classic Victorians in the Delaware District have also been condos into pricey condos.

 

Even lower end neighborhoods west of Main Street filled utilitarian two families like Grant Amherst and Grant Ferry have seen significant price increases.  These homes are being bought up by younger buyers looking to build nest eggs with fixer uppers or as well as by investors.

[djp14150]

13 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I can only speak about Buffalo's housing market west of Main Street because that's the area I know best.  In that area, Buffalo's real estate market has been booming for more than a decade, especially west of Main Street.  The prices in the most desirable West Side neighborhoods -- Allentown, Richmond Ave, Elmwood Village, Delaware District -- have skyrocketed, and that's meant an overflow of gentrification into parts of the Lower West Side, Black Rock, Connecticut Street, etc.  North Buffalo has also been a desirable area going back to the 1980s, and its become even more so.  Most of single family homes in these neighborhoods as well as many of the two family homes are owned by people who live in them.   All these neighborhoods have lots of single family homes with some decent/interest architecture that appeal to modern buyers.  Many of the grand old mansions and classic Victorians in the Delaware District have also been condos into pricey condos.

 

Even lower end neighborhoods west of Main Street filled utilitarian two families like Grant Amherst and Grant Ferry have seen significant price increases.  These homes are being bought up by younger buyers looking to build nest eggs with fixer uppers or as well as by investors.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/07/16/how-railroads-highways-and-other-man-made-lines-racially-divide-americas-cities/
 

look at the above article. There is a drawing of buffalo based on 2010 census data.  Parts of west side are and have always been white neighborhoods.

 

in result of this shooting they have brought up how kengsington expressway was built and changing of neighborhoods.

 

my dad taught at Grover fir 30 years

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/07/16/how-railroads-highways-and-other-man-made-lines-racially-divide-americas-cities/
 

look at the above article. There is a drawing of buffalo based on 2010 census data.  Parts of west side are and have always been white neighborhoods.

 

in result of this shooting they have brought up how kengsington expressway was built and changing of neighborhoods.

 

my dad taught at Grover fir 30 years

 

Main Street has been a dividing line between the "good side" and the "poor side" of town going back to the Buffalo's days as a booming canal town in the1830s.  The wealthy and middle class people lived west of Main Street and the working class and poor people lived east of Main Street all through the 19th and 20th centuries.  The poor were concentrated in what was the old Ellicott District which was began on the east side of Main and spread east along North and South Divisions streets as well as in the Canal Street area and along the waterfront into the Old First Ward.  

 

Many of these neighborhoods were peopled by immigrants, first Irish and Germans, and were later joined or replaced by Italians, Poles, and Russian Jews.  Buffalo's small population of pre-Civil War Blacks lived around Michigan Avenue in the Ellicott District, and it remained relatively small until the 20th century when the Great Migration brought a modest influx of Blacks from the South into Buffalo between the world wars.   Buffalo didn't experience a significant influx of black newcomers until WW II and afterward.

 

When the Kensington Expressway was planned, which would have been in the late 1940s or early 1950s, the Black population of Buffalo was much smaller and located much closer to downtown than it was by the time the expressway was completed in the 1960s, so it's not factual to claim that it was racially motivated.   It was economically motivated, targeting poorer working class neighborhoods that city leaders believed should be leveled and used for something "better", ie, an expressway.   The neighborhoods along the Kensington Expressway route generally were white, mostly ethnically German but were already changing because people with good paying industrial jobs looked for better housing than the crowded working class cottages and mutlifamilies that filled much of the East Stide.   IOW, most of the whites who moved out of the Near East Side in the 1950s would have moved out to Kaisertown or Cheektowaga even without the Kensington because they wanted better housing.  The Kensington expressway project accelerated that move.  Blacks were the latest group of newcomers (along with Puerto Ricans) to come to Buffalo, and probably would have filled in the near East Side anyways, but perhaps not so quickly.

[djp14150]

3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Main Street has been a dividing line between the "good side" and the "poor side" of town going back to the Buffalo's days as a booming canal town in the1830s.  The wealthy and middle class people lived west of Main Street and the working class and poor people lived east of Main Street all through the 19th and 20th centuries.  The poor were concentrated in what was the old Ellicott District which was began on the east side of Main and spread east along North and South Divisions streets as well as in the Canal Street area and along the waterfront into the Old First Ward.  

 

Many of these neighborhoods were peopled by immigrants, first Irish and Germans, and were later joined or replaced by Italians, Poles, and Russian Jews.  Buffalo's small population of pre-Civil War Blacks lived around Michigan Avenue in the Ellicott District, and it remained relatively small until the 20th century when the Great Migration brought a modest influx of Blacks from the South into Buffalo between the world wars.   Buffalo didn't experience a significant influx of black newcomers until WW II and afterward.

 

When the Kensington Expressway was planned, which would have been in the late 1940s or early 1950s, the Black population of Buffalo was much smaller and located much closer to downtown than it was by the time the expressway was completed in the 1960s, so it's not factual to claim that it was racially motivated.   It was economically motivated, targeting poorer working class neighborhoods that city leaders believed should be leveled and used for something "better", ie, an expressway.   The neighborhoods along the Kensington Expressway route generally were white, mostly ethnically German but were already changing because people with good paying industrial jobs looked for better housing than the crowded working class cottages and mutlifamilies that filled much of the East Stide.   IOW, most of the whites who moved out of the Near East Side in the 1950s would have moved out to Kaisertown or Cheektowaga even without the Kensington because they wanted better housing.  The Kensington expressway project accelerated that move.  Blacks were the latest group of newcomers (along with Puerto Ricans) to come to Buffalo, and probably would have filled in the near East Side anyways, but perhaps not so quickly.

 

You have many inaccuracies….

 

there was redlining and black zones.  The Kensington expressway split a black neighborhood. This has happened in many other cities when expressways were built. They avoided white neighborhoods and cut thru black ones.

 

the post WW2 GI bill benefited white veteran dips only allowing them to buy homes in the suburbs.  The highways were built along when suburbs were built.

 

https://ppgbuffalo.org/files/documents/data-demographics-history/a_city_divided__a_brief_history_of_segregation_in_the_city_of_buffalo.pdf

 

The cities history was Irish south, Italians north, Polish on the east, Delaware  park area was wealthy,  Rest was black.

 

erie canal did not enter Niagara in buffalo but used tonawanda creek into Niagara river