JaCrispy Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) I wanted to make this thread because I honestly don’t know the answer... There seems to be a lot of overlapping when it comes to these two ideologies... -Both can be racist -Both can be authoritarian -Both can believe in socialism, while using capitalism to grow -Both can virtue signal about what they claim are their moral values, while secretly engaging in the opposite So what, really, is the difference between Left Wing/Right Wing? Is it a belief in a higher power (ie God) vs. secularism (humanism)? Is it tradition vs. ‘anything goes’? Is it isolationism vs. globalism? Obviously there are economic and social issues at play, here- and maybe others I’m not even thinking about...so feel free to contribute any and everything so that we can have a fuller understanding...👍 Edited March 20, 2022 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) A simple google search had this: Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism". At first glance I found it odd that it said “freedom” is associated with the Left wing types of people...Because I just always associated that side with wanting big government control, and mocking Right Wingers who cry freedom all the time...so that confused me a bit... Second, I found it odd when it said Left Wing supports rights, because you see a lot of see a lot of support of censorship, and shutting down of free speech rights coming from the Left...granted, censorship has also come from the Right at various stages of history as well...so this was a bit confounding... I like freedom, but understand you have to have some authority and order so there isn’t chaos...The Left and Right will forever bicker over what is the right amount...Typically people who are confident in themselves, self assured, and believe that Man is more good than bad, want more freedom...Those who are less confident, and more fearful of the world and human nature, tend to be the ones willing to surrender their individual freedoms for more government control...This last part isn’t necessarily a fact, just the way I see it...👍 The word ‘equality’ doesn’t really have any meaning to me, because it is such a vague term, that is thrown around all the time, and can mean anything and nothing at the same time...It just seems to be one of those words that sounds good to say, while nobody seems to know what it’s actually referring to... Rights are God given (according to the Constitution) so I don’t understand how the Right Wing can be nationalists but not be for rights, if it’s in your nation’s founding document... Hierarchy is a biological manifestation...So it certainly has its place...But not to the point where people at the top of a particular hierarchy should be able assert tyrannical power over others... Tradition is important, and can also be very useful...But not to the point where it keeps society from progressing, and stuck in place... Nationalism can be good (so long as it’s done in moderation) because it allows for a place for people of shared values...Like a small town is a microcosm of a larger county or state, so, too, is a nation for the whole world...And as technology continues to bring the world closer together, and cultures continue to evolve, you can envision a cohesive international global community (Obviously with the caveat that the end result could go any number of ways)...😉 Another point that was made is that the Right is reactionary...This would tend to make sense, because as the Left pushes for change, the Right reacts to the change...Sometimes the Right is against the change and pushes back...Other times the changes might be an obvious need... But in conclusion, based on this google search, I would say that I agree with some of the Left wing values and some of the Right wing values...So, I guess I would be considered a moderate or in the center of the political spectrum... Edited March 20, 2022 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Interesting thoughts Crispy. I have often thought that some people are so far right they actually become lefty. Was Nazi Party actually right or left? I think a deciding factor maybe money!$$$$$$. Should money be left with the earner or should it partially be redistributed by a formula. Money hoarded is harmful to the colony of people. Money needs to be recirculated 7 times for a colony to be successful. That is basic enterprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: I think a deciding factor maybe money!$$$$$$. Bingo! It’s all about where the money comes from. The rest is a bunch or circular references, contradictions and lies and figuring out how to control and manipulate as many minds as possible. there’s no virtues values or principles. the one thing the Republicans say rightly is the less government, the better, even though they don’t practice what they preach. and the one thing the democrats say rightly is be who you want to be, love who you want to love etc, but then of course they act as the most everything ‘ists’ on the planet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 4 hours ago, JaCrispy said: I wanted to make this thread because I honestly don’t know the answer... There seems to be a lot of overlapping when it comes to these two ideologies... -Both can be racist -Both can be authoritarian So you are trying to water down and make "normal" right wing racism. You know anything about American history? Conservatism has had as its backbone racism as its core. Just loo how the Conservatives bailed on the Democratic party after the Civil Rights bills passed But I get it, accuse democrats/pro-republic people of the same things of the wanna be authoritarians 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: So you are trying to water down and make "normal" right wing racism. You know anything about American history? Conservatism has had as its backbone racism as its core. Just loo how the Conservatives bailed on the Democratic party after the Civil Rights bills passed But I get it, accuse democrats/pro-republic people of the same things of the wanna be authoritarians Oh come on Tibs. AOC is as racist as anyone in the world. Reverse racism is racism on the other side of Main Street. AOC looks at someone and says you must be racist because you are white. I will teach you how to act because I know best because I am black. That is racism. Remove the idea of color, and religion and you begin to have quality. But you cannot sit high on a pedestal build on color and religion and point down and call others racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 My two cents: The two are virtually indistinguishable in 2022 America. The current divide is more accurately described as Inside vs Outside…not Right vs Left. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 38 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Oh come on Tibs. AOC is as racist as anyone in the world. Reverse racism is racism on the other side of Main Street. AOC looks at someone and says you must be racist because you are white. I will teach you how to act because I know best because I am black. That is racism. Remove the idea of color, and religion and you begin to have quality. But you cannot sit high on a pedestal build on color and religion and point down and call others racist. She isn't racist at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 That's just. Stupid racist point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 If you could imagine a line painted on the ice from the center of each net, left wingers should generally fore and backcheck to the left of that line, while right wingers should patrol right of that line. Same for offensive play but creativity allows for more free flow and less positional rigidity. Oh, and don't forget to cover your points. You are welcome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: She isn't racist at all. She is that ’ist’, just about every other in the book and also the poster girl for the Dunning-Kruger effect… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: She is that ’ist’, just about every other in the book and also the poster girl for the Dunning-Kruger effect… Always accuse your opponents of being what you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: So you are trying to water down and make "normal" right wing racism. You know anything about American history? Conservatism has had as its backbone racism as its core. Just loo how the Conservatives bailed on the Democratic party after the Civil Rights bills passed But I get it, accuse democrats/pro-republic people of the same things of the wanna be authoritarians So please explain why it was the liberal states that damaged minorities the worst during the pandemic? If I need to explain why that is clearly true then you are once again too ignorant to be taken seriously when you spout such drivel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tiberius said: So you are trying to water down and make "normal" right wing racism. You know anything about American history? Conservatism has had as its backbone racism as its core. Just loo how the Conservatives bailed on the Democratic party after the Civil Rights bills passed But I get it, accuse democrats/pro-republic people of the same things of the wanna be authoritarians Not trying to water down any kind of racism...Just saying that there is racism on both sides...I’ll give you an example of what I mean... After doing some research a few years back, I learned that early 20th century Progressives were very racist towards black people. Not necessarily overtly, like “burn crosses on your front yard” racism (although there were some who did this too)...But early 20th century racism was more subtle, or covert... This all came about when people joined the military and were given aptitude tests...Blacks scored lower than whites, on average- not because they didn’t have the same mental capacity, but because they were only a generation removed from slavery, and did not have same opportunities in a segregated nation... However, progressive leaders like Woodrow Wilson and Margaret Sanger (among others) used the test results to justify the notion that white people needed to help ‘civilize’ the African race, because their inferiority made them incapable of doing it on their own...This was very common thought among early 20th century Progressives... So, the point I’m try to illustrate here is that, from my estimation, there seems to be two form of racism... The first form is the most obvious because of its visibility...It’s what I like to call “uneducated racism”. It’s the racism that stems from our biological hardwiring- where humans tend to fear the unknown, or the unfamiliar...When we aren’t familiar with something, we naturally tend to distrust that thing...And when we distrust something we eventually start to resent or hate that thing...We concoct all kinds of irrational reasons for why that thing is the worst possible thing on Earth...This is “uneducated racism”. This is the kind you see from some rural folks, who have never met another person of a different ethnicity... The other form of racism, I refer to as “educated racism”...This racism comes from the more we’ll-to-do people in society, and is less obvious, but exists right beneath the surface...It’s the kind where college educated people don’t think blacks are smart enough to know how to get a photo ID...It’s the kind that Malcom X talked about when speaking about white liberals...It’s their education and elite status that makes them feel superior to the African coming out of slavery...Malcom described it that they would befriend the black man, earn their trust, to make them feel like they were on their side...Offer them token gifts, through token government programs to win their favor...All the while it is to make the African dependent on the white man to take care of them, but also control them, because they were viewed as too inferior to take care of themselves...It’s the ‘soft bigotry of lowered expectations’. But I want to make clear, even though Malcolm X references white liberals in this way, this form of ‘educated racism’ (elitism) exists on both sides, in both parties...I’m not trying to be partisan here...just trying to help illustrate that, contrary to popular belief, racism does exist on both sides... Here is a short video on Leftist Progressive Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) to further illustrate this point... Edited March 20, 2022 by JaCrispy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) You guys really don’t see that these are just the topics that the Inside wants all of us on the Outside arguing about? Really? What’s it going to take for you guys to wake the Fock up? Edited March 20, 2022 by SoCal Deek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: She is that ’ist’, just about every other in the book and also the poster girl for the Dunning-Kruger effect… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Always accuse your opponents of being what you are... I do my best not to be racist, my dear Mr Tibs and would appreciate you not refer to me that way. And tell AOC not to as well. We ALL have things to learn and can be better. Those of us, and we are many, who do our best to not stereotype are not helped by being called racist by people like AOC who is a racist by her actions and speech. A Scotsman is cheap, talks funny, has ruddy complexion, has a short temper and eats haggis. That is stereotype, and I have very close friends who fit that description. I love them, trust them, they are dear to me, I respect them I even share a wee dram with them, so I am I a racist because that describes them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Exactly- THANK YOU! This looks like it was written by a 4th grader, not someone who is supposed to have the mental capacity to effectively legislate. Edited March 20, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Not trying to water down any kind of racism...Just saying that there is racism on both sides...I’ll give you an example of what I mean... After doing some research a few years back, I learned that early 20th century Progressives were very racist towards black people. Not necessarily overtly, like “burn crosses on your front yard” racism (although there were some who did this too)...But early 20th century racism was more subtle, or covert... This all came about when people joined the military and were given aptitude tests...Blacks scored lower than whites, on average- not because they didn’t have the same mental capacity, but because they were only a generation removed from slavery, and did not have same opportunities in a segregated nation... However, progressive leaders like Woodrow Wilson and Margaret Sanger (among others) used the test results to justify the notion that white people needed to help ‘civilize’ the African race, because their inferiority made them incapable of doing it on their own...This was very common thought among early 20th century Progressives... So, the point I’m try to illustrate here is that, from my estimation, there seems to be two form of racism... The first form is the most obvious because of its visibility...It’s what I like to call “uneducated racism”. It’s the racism that stems from our biological hardwiring- where humans tend to fear the unknown, or the unfamiliar...When we aren’t familiar with something, we naturally tend to distrust that thing...And when we distrust something we eventually start to resent or hate that thing...We concoct all kinds of irrational reasons for why that thing is the worst possible thing on Earth...This is “uneducated racism”. This is the kind you see from some rural folks, who have never met another person of a different ethnicity... The other form of racism, I refer to as “educated racism”...This racism comes from the more we’ll-to-do people in society, and is less obvious, but exists right beneath the surface...It’s the kind where college educated people don’t think blacks are smart enough to know how to get a photo ID...It’s the kind that Malcom X talked about when speaking about white liberals...It’s their education and elite status that makes them feel superior to the African coming out of slavery...Malcom described it that they would befriend the black man, earn their trust, to make them feel like they were on their side...Offer them token gifts, through token government programs to win their favor...All the while it is to make the African dependent on the white man to take care of them, but also control them, because they were viewed as too inferior to take care of themselves... But I want to make clear, even though Malcolm X references white liberals in this way, this form of ‘educated racism’ (elitism) exists on both sides, in both parties...I’m not trying to be partisan here...just trying to help illustrate that, contrary to popular belief, racism does exist on both sides... Here is a short video on Leftist Progressive Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) to further illustrate this point... You are talking about pre-Civil Rights era Progressives? Woodrow Wilson was a straight up racist, yes. He was from the south and supported segregation. Black people were not allowed to vote then so Black people really didn’t get much of a voice in anything. The Civil Rights movement, with the help of White Liberals, ended Jim Crow and gave Blacks the right to vote and be citizens. White liberals voted to do that and the Conservatives left the Dems to go to the Republicans. Did there use to be racists progressives? Yes, but times change. But to say that now now both sides are racist, and to use hundred year old comparisons is not a sound argument. 22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Exactly- THANK YOU! This looks like it was written by a 4th grader, not someone who is supposed to have the mental capacity to effectively legislate. She writes better than Trump does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffarukus Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) all i can tell you is neither is the same ideology that it was awhile ago. occupy wall street for example seemed fundamentally similar to the trucker protest when it came to demanding respect to the lower working class being trampled by elite power over reach. if you were on a side for both protests and your positioning changed then people need to ask themselves why. mine stayed the same so im considered a far right trumper now. 🤔 Edited March 20, 2022 by Buffarukus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You are talking about pre-Civil Rights era Progressives? Woodrow Wilson was a straight up racist, yes. He was from the south and supported segregation. Black people were not allowed to vote then so Black people really didn’t get much of a voice in anything. The Civil Rights movement, with the help of White Liberals, ended Jim Crow and gave Blacks the right to vote and be citizens. White liberals voted to do that and the Conservatives left the Dems to go to the Republicans. Did there use to be racists progressives? Yes, but times change. But to say that now now both sides are racist, and to use hundred year old comparisons is not a sound argument. Granted, I will concede 100 year old comparisons may not be the best argument... However, the same arguments are being used today, by elitists on both sides of the political aisle, but mainly from the Left... These are modern college educated white people...listen to what they say about black people...And then listen to how shocked black people are, to hear how they are viewed... This is the type of covert, subtle racism, born out of 20th century Leftist Progressivism, that I am talking about...This is the kind that seeks to keep black people with a lowered mental perception of themselves, to control them imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 As I lay hear on an American beach surrounded by people of every possible creed and color I can tell you that you’re all full of sheet. You’ve really got to get out more. Pathetic 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Granted, I will concede 100 year old comparisons may not be the best argument... However, the same arguments are being used today, by elitists on both sides of the political aisle, but mainly from the Left... These are modern college educated white people...listen to what they say about black people...And then listen to how shocked black people are, to hear how they are viewed... This is the type of covert, subtle racism, born out of 20th century Leftist Progressivism, that I am talking about...This is the kind that seeks to keep black people with a lowered mental perception of themselves, to control them imo... A right wing video? really? The Democratic party (liberals) fights for black people, fights for their justified inclusion in our main institutions and society. I don't see your argument, based on right wing media sources, as having any validity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: She writes better than Trump does Thank you again!!! Exactly! she’s barely edging out a 70 year old with a vocabulary of 78 words. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tiberius said: A right wing video? really? The Democratic party (liberals) fights for black people, fights for their justified inclusion in our main institutions and society. I don't see your argument, based on right wing media sources, as having any validity Oh, don’t be so silly...you think CNN or MSNBC would show Leftist Progressives saying racist things? Of course not... Just like FOX News wouldn’t show Right Wingers saying racist things...it doesn’t mean both sides don’t do it... Those people, in the video, still said those things, regardless of who was asking the questions...Try not to make everything so partisan...you can learn a lot more that way...👍 Edited March 20, 2022 by JaCrispy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Once again…you have to refuse to be manipulated by these people. Go out and be a good person. I guarantee you will NOT be alone. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 The definitions haven't changed at all. The 2 political parties and their supporters have. 2022 Democrats are totalitarian fascists that say and do nothing for the common........person. 2022 Republicans are still sorta limited government conservatives, they just think they can run the government better. What's bad about this for everyone? GONE are the days of "We gotta shrink government and cut your taxes!" No one is winning on that alone. And they're the only issues that matter but we live in peak stupid times. Where all that matters is making everything about narrative control and that your side comes out on top of every argument. You think it's bad today? Just wait till circa 2028 when the first group of voters that were 10 when Covid shut their lives down and ruined many of them can start voting. Oh and they grew up on tik-tok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: As I lay hear on an American beach surrounded by people of every possible creed and color I can tell you that you’re all full of sheet. You’ve really got to get out more. Pathetic I knew you were a surfer dude,😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Sorry but this says nothing except those who chose to be vaxxed, it was not mandatory, also believe we should help Ukraine. 87% of the country decided to help save lives. They decided Ukraine is about freedom, masks to help your fellow citizens is not about freedom, it is being responsible. So he thinks he knows something special. I could read it to suggest that 13 to 52% of Canada is communist supporting. Duh. This tweet shows his desire to influence not report which his profile says he does for a living Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: I knew you were a surfer dude,😂 Actually just laying on a towel enjoying the scenery…if you know what I mean. 😉 But my comment still stands…so many people here from so many nationalities, colors, and traditions, and everyone gets along. You have to refuse to be baited into this race nonsense. It’s beneath us all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Actually just laying on a towel enjoying the scenery…if you know what I mean. 😉 But my comment still stands…so many people here from so many nationalities, colors, and traditions, and everyone gets along. You have to refuse to be baited into this race nonsense. It’s beneath us all. We were just talking about this. Remember the Summer of (Covid) Love when you could go to the beach but not lie down. You had to keep moving. I really wish I had kept a journal of all that nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 37 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: We were just talking about this. Remember the Summer of (Covid) Love when you could go to the beach but not lie down. You had to keep moving. I really wish I had kept a journal of all that nonsense. Not to make this into a Covid thread…but after the first few weeks almost all of the advice was the EXACT opposite of what we should have been told to do. History and SCIENCE are going to prove that out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Chef Jim said: We were just talking about this. Remember the Summer of (Covid) Love when you could go to the beach but not lie down. You had to keep moving. I really wish I had kept a journal of all that nonsense. There was some crazy stuff going around. 'Wash your produce in bleach' was another gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: There was some crazy stuff going around. 'Wash your produce in bleach' was another gem. That probably would be a good thread to start. Stupid ***** they told us to do or not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albwan Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 right=normal people left=whack jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 3/22/2022 at 7:15 AM, BillStime said: Wait! If it’s going to come down to a contest of who walks away more in the face of questions….you may want rethink. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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