Bills 2021 rookie class ranked 27th in league

[Mr. WEO]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:10 PM, Long Suffering Fan said:

 

It actually does work that way.  Drafting at the top is an advantage.  Of course, that does not make your team instantly good....or ever good.  As you mention, see the Sabres.

 

If you draft bad, you can fritter away your draft position, but there is a reason that teams trade up.

 

It's a ranking of the rookie class on each team.  It's not a ranking "relative to where the team picked".

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I can't.

I guess you aren't a big Sabres fan.

 

A couple names for you: Jack Eichel; Sam Reinhart.

 

We tanked an entire season for each; after years of losing, both wanted out.

 

Not saying it's exactly the same with the Bills and Allen, but there is precedent for it, at least hypothetically.

Look at the recent moving of good QBs around the league and Rodgers' current situation.

 

Never say never!

 

 

 

On 2/5/2022 at 2:55 PM, Malazan said:

 

Then there's you who's just always wrong and pretends that everyone is a kool-aid drinker because you're just really, really bad at being objective yourself. I've heard horse tranquillizer can help with that though. Drink up. 

Yeah right!  LOL.  Provide me with some links to all my "wrong takes".

 

Kool aid boy.

 

 

[Malazan]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Yeah right!  LOL.  Provide me with some links to all my "wrong takes".

 

Kool aid boy.

 

Here's 1: 

 

Try thinking for a change instead of lashing out emotionally all the time. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Malazan

[teef]

kool aid boy isn't a terrible screen name.

[TableDestoyer69]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:54 AM, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

 

 

There is absolutely a correlation between draft order and draft quality. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

And lots of teams picking at the top, year after year, remain trash heaps.

 

People need to remember that teams do NOT have the draft order correctly analyzed...so there is not necessarily a huge correlation between draft spot and talent of player received, especially the further you get from the very top of the draft.

 

If NFL teams knew how to assess talent properly, Tyreek Hill wouldn't have been taken 165th overall, or have been passed over by every team in the league four--and some teams five--times.

 

For example.

 

 

 

 

 

Tyreek went 165th overall because of his character, not his talent. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I guess you aren't a big Sabres fan.

 

A couple names for you: Jack Eichel; Sam Reinhart.

 

We tanked an entire season for each; after years of losing, both wanted out.

 

Not saying it's exactly the same with the Bills and Allen, but there is precedent for it, at least hypothetically.

Look at the recent moving of good QBs around the league and Rodgers' current situation.

 

Never say never!

 

 

I wouldn't watch skate hockey if the alternative was torture. And Josh Allen is no Aaron Rodgers. He has always been a diva.

[Success]

Hot take city.  I love the potential Groot showed, and Brown is already there.  That's 2 very good starters at worse.  Basham contributed, and I think Stevenson could work his way in w/ that speed.

 

As some have said, it's easier for worse teams to bring rookies in as starters.  The Pats were #1, and their draft probably was the best they've had in awhile. But I'm still not convinced that Jones will be their starter in 5 years. Barmore was a bit win though.

 

[Buffalo716]

Drafting is an inexact science... Always has been and always will be

 

Philosophy, scheme, coaching, time to develop, work ethic, love for the game, are all things that shape a player's career

 

In one situation it could be positive and another it could be completely negative

 

Notice I said all those things without ever mentioning a player's talent.. because every single player is immensely talented at that level

 

Why do some players fall? Based on perceived negatives.. such as not ideal height weight or physique... Lack of competition.. or maybe questionable off-field decisions

 

What do consistently good teams do in the draft? They stick to their board.. they stick to their philosophies.. they draft good football players instead of reaching for athletes who can maybe play

 

Matt Milano.. probably a 7th round pick on most teams boards.. not great size and not the fastest. Good special team value  

 

But our scouts do a great job of projecting now.. they know the league has changed.. those 260 lb run stuffing days are gone 

 

So take a chance on an undersized coverage linebacker who fits the mold of the NFL... Somebody who pound for pound hits as hard as anybody just is undersized.. somebody who fits Sean's scheme with an understanding of what he's trying to accomplish 

 

And you get overachievers

 

Fit and scheme really are the two best chances for a player to succeed.. and when you put them in a good environment it's easier to flourish

 

[BillsFan619]

5 hours ago, Success said:

Hot take city.  I love the potential Groot showed, and Brown is already there.  That's 2 very good starters at worse.  Basham contributed, and I think Stevenson could work his way in w/ that speed.

 

As some have said, it's easier for worse teams to bring rookies in as starters.  The Pats were #1, and their draft probably was the best they've had in awhile. But I'm still not convinced that Jones will be their starter in 5 years. Barmore was a bit win though.

 

Yes, definitely a lot of hot takes in this one.

 

That said, good take on your part. I do believe Spencer Brown could be special.

 

And there still is a lot of potential in Groot. It wasn’t good that he fell off so early but that doesn’t always mean anything either.

[RyanC883]

On 2/6/2022 at 7:12 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The top two rounds the past 2 drafts? First, he traded away the 1st round pick that year for Diggs. No first rounder makes it hard for a draft to show immediate big returns, and Diggs of course has been terrific.

 

Basically you're talking about three players (outside of Diggs), two of whom are rookies, and all of whom are way too young to fully judge.

 

2020 2nd: Epenesa  Not enough so far, but he's flashed and it's too early to know

2021 1st: Rousseau. For how much he's played, and the fact that he's a rookie, looks good so far.

2021 2nd: Basham. Hard to even comment, really. Showed flashes, but not enough, but the numbers game kept him off the field. No way to begin to judge, really.

 

Only other top two round picks for Beane have been:

 

Oliver: looks terrific.

Ford: looks awful

Allen: looks insanely good

Edmunds: looks good

 

Overall that's good.

 

I'd disagree with your grading of some of these picks, and my comments were limited to the last 2 drafts, when we are in "win-now" mode.  For those drafts: 

 

Epenesa: not too early to know.  He's a 2nd round pick.  That guy should be showing by now.  

 

Rousseau: I'm okay with this pick, although DT Barmore would have been a better pick given our need at DT.  

Basham:  Really hate this pick.  This looks like Bean couldn't decide if either guy would pan out, so he took 2 DE's.  Meanwhile, needing help on the OL, he passes on the best interior OL prospect in the draft in Creed Humphrey, who is an instant impact player that would have helped the OL (and also our cap space this year).  

 

I favor trading a pick for a player like Diggs if that's available.  Rookies, unless you really hit on the pick, could take too long, if ever, to develop.  We need a front 7 presence while our secondary is still playing well (Poyer and Hyde both on the wrong side of 30 and expensive).  

 

 

[BillsFan619]

10 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I'd disagree with your grading of some of these picks, and my comments were limited to the last 2 drafts, when we are in "win-now" mode.  For those drafts: 

 

Epenesa: not too early to know.  He's a 2nd round pick.  That guy should be showing by now.  

 

Rousseau: I'm okay with this pick, although DT Barmore would have been a better pick given our need at DT.  

Basham:  Really hate this pick.  This looks like Bean couldn't decide if either guy would pan out, so he took 2 DE's.  Meanwhile, needing help on the OL, he passes on the best interior OL prospect in the draft in Creed Humphrey, who is an instant impact player that would have helped the OL (and also our cap space this year).  

 

I favor trading a pick for a player like Diggs if that's available.  Rookies, unless you really hit on the pick, could take too long, if ever, to develop.  We need a front 7 presence while our secondary is still playing well (Poyer and Hyde both on the wrong side of 30 and expensive).  

 

 

Is there anyone in particular that you would trade a pick for to get an impact player (like Diggs) at a position of need?

[Bronxbomber21]

On 2/6/2022 at 7:23 PM, BillsFan619 said:

You would trade a first for Barkley?

 

Even with his injury history?

For pick 25 yes

[FilthyBeast]

I think this is pretty accurate, if anything there wasn't really any major contributors this year outside of Brown who wasn't even expected to be a factor but was somewhat forced in the lineup by default because of how bad the oline was early in the year.

 

At some point though Beane needs to be under the microscope because outside of Allen, you can argue he's not had any real big time hits in the draft in terms of finding star players, or even above average NFL players for that matter. And if Groot and/or Basham doesn't become a big time impact player next year that's essentially 3 wasted high draft picks on the dline in 2 years because doesn't look like Epensa is going to amount to much in this league through 2 seasons.

 

Meanwhile the team we are still chasing in the AFC continues to have excellent drafts on a year basis including finding two future all pros in Creed Humprhey and Nick Bolton last year.

[John from Riverside]

For a 29th pick....I thought Groot was pretty damn good

[BillsFan619]

40 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

For a 29th pick....I thought Groot was pretty damn good

It seemed like Groot was coming on strong and then seemed to lose steam after the first KC meeting. That said, I believe he has great potential and it will be interesting to see how he grows in his second year.

 

Out of all of our picks, I thought Spencer Brown did the best for us this year. I really do hope he can continue to develop and continue to bring some stability to our o-line.

[YattaOkasan]

22 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Yes, definitely a lot of hot takes in this one.

 

That said, good take on your part. I do believe Spencer Brown could be special.

 

And there still is a lot of potential in Groot. It wasn’t good that he fell off so early but that doesn’t always mean anything either.

In hindsight it makes a lot of sense that groot hit a rookie wall because he didn’t play last year.  Getting an off-season should help him be more consistent next year.