Ken Dorsey - would he choose OC here or leave to be Daboll's OC?

[Boatdrinks]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes.

 

To me, he is THE choice.

 

Four top 12 offenses despite having Nick Foles, Alex Smith, and Carson Wentz as his QB's. 

He’s a WCO guy, and I just don’t think Josh is a WCO type QB. New system = step back in Championship mode. 

[london_bills]

Still nothing about Daboll from the Bills, must be finalizing Dorsey

[Not at the table Karlos]

51 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Still nothing about Daboll from the Bills, must be finalizing Dorsey

They made a post the other day congratulating Daboll. 

 

https://twitter.com/BuffaloBills/status/1487219317003407360?t=UvPutxeRFZOGYzmhPpFw0Q&s=19

Edited January 31, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos
Add tweet

[london_bills]

39 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

They made a post the other day congratulating Daboll. 

 

https://twitter.com/BuffaloBills/status/1487219317003407360?t=UvPutxeRFZOGYzmhPpFw0Q&s=19

Oh right didn't see that thanks. There's a Daboll presser with the giants later so hopefully we get some Bills OC news today

[BuffaloBillyG]

One thing that stands out for me at least as somewhat of a red flag on Dorsey.

 

If he's such a hot name "rising star"...why are the only 2 teams mentioned for his services the Bills (who he is with now) and the Giants (who are where his old boss ended up)? I would figure with the, what 9 teams looking for HCs and new staff if he was such a hot commodity he would be mentioned more.

 

Not saying he would be bad at the job. But it"s definitely something that would be a pause for concearn for me.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

One thing that stands out for me at least as somewhat of a red flag on Dorsey.

 

If he's such a hot name "rising star"...why are the only 2 teams mentioned for his services the Bills (who he is with now) and the Giants (who are where his old boss ended up)? I would figure with the, what 9 teams looking for HCs and new staff if he was such a hot commodity he would be mentioned more.

 

Not saying he would be bad at the job. But it"s definitely something that would be a pause for concearn for me.

How many other teams are going to be able to compete with Josh Allen as qb? Daboll makes sense because of comfort level and association. Other teams may know or simply presume that Dorsey is either staying in Buffalo or going to the Giants. In any case, it doesn't automatically say red flag to me.

[Da webster guy]

Put simply, the Giants are a sinking ship.  Daboll missed out on his dream job w the Chargers (Staley over Daboll will go down as a legendary whiff by that franchise) and the guy got an offer from a GM he knows for a HC job so he took it, but they are still going to suck.

Jones has played 3 seasons in the league and he's done OK.  Turnovers were his biggest challenge and he was 10 TD's on 7 picks before his injury which is WAY better than his 1st two years.  Throws a decent deep ball too, but overall he's just a guy, and we know all too well how that one ends.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

How many other teams are going to be able to compete with Josh Allen as qb? Daboll makes sense because of comfort level and association. Other teams may know or simply presume that Dorsey is either staying in Buffalo or going to the Giants. In any case, it doesn't automatically say red flag to me.

Teams offer coaches that they want interviews. No one is shy. This isn't some 4th grade dance that everyone just stands around afraid to ask people to dance.

 

It's actually very much the opposite. If he was a "gotta have" teams would be lining up to make their pitch. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

Teams offer coaches that they want interviews. No one is shy. This isn't some 4th grade dance that everyone just stands around afraid to ask people to dance.

 

It's actually very much the opposite. If he was a "gotta have" teams would be lining up to make their pitch. 

Okay, you're free to indulge negative vibes. I remain unpersuaded it is a significant tell.

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Put simply, the Giants are a sinking ship.  Daboll missed out on his dream job w the Chargers (Staley over Daboll will go down as a legendary whiff by that franchise) and the guy got an offer from a GM he knows for a HC job so he took it, but they are still going to suck.

Jones has played 3 seasons in the league and he's done OK.  Turnovers were his biggest challenge and he was 10 TD's on 7 picks before his injury which is WAY better than his 1st two years.  Throws a decent deep ball too, but overall he's just a guy, and we know all too well how that one ends.

 

 

Last year after he missed on the Charger job he withdrew his name from other interviews that were set up IIRC. Tells me he wasn't going to take just "Any job".

 

Giants are a solid landing spot with some pieces on place, good picks this season (and a projected soft schedule next year). Don't be shocked when they win 7 or 8 next year.

[Southern_Bills]

10 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Put simply, the Giants are a sinking ship.  Daboll missed out on his dream job w the Chargers (Staley over Daboll will go down as a legendary whiff by that franchise) and the guy got an offer from a GM he knows for a HC job so he took it, but they are still going to suck.

Jones has played 3 seasons in the league and he's done OK.  Turnovers were his biggest challenge and he was 10 TD's on 7 picks before his injury which is WAY better than his 1st two years.  Throws a decent deep ball too, but overall he's just a guy, and we know all too well how that one ends.

 

 

 

I still think Mitch will follow Daboll and be the "Backup plan" if Jones continues to struggle.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

Okay, you're free to indulge negative vibes. I remain unpersuaded it is a significant tell.

If you feel that it's negative to have feelings other that sunshine and rainbows that's a "you issue", bro. 

 

Like I said in my 1st post you quoted..I'm not saying he would be bad. Just gives pause to wonder why of he's such a lock at greatness more teams aren't in one him.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

If you feel that it's negative to have feelings other that sunshine and rainbows that's a "you issue", bro. 

 

Like I said in my 1st post you quoted..I'm not saying he would be bad. Just gives pause to wonder why of he's such a lock at greatness more teams aren't in one him.

Good grief, get over yourself. I'm not a Pollyanna poster. I just think your take is not terribly plausible.

[BuffaloBillyG]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Good grief, get over yourself. I'm not a Pollyanna poster. I just think your take is not terribly plausible.

LMAO..get over myself? Easy Polly. 

 

You think my take of him not being pursued by people that know why more about him MIGHT indicate something...yet your take of "teams aren't after him because they are shy" is spot on?

 

Mmkay. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Put simply, the Giants are a sinking ship.  Daboll missed out on his dream job w the Chargers (Staley over Daboll will go down as a legendary whiff by that franchise) and the guy got an offer from a GM he knows for a HC job so he took it, but they are still going to suck.

Jones has played 3 seasons in the league and he's done OK.  Turnovers were his biggest challenge and he was 10 TD's on 7 picks before his injury which is WAY better than his 1st two years.  Throws a decent deep ball too, but overall he's just a guy, and we know all too well how that one ends.

 

Jones threw 24 TD to 12 INT his rookie season, under (oh hey look) Pat Shurmur as HC and Mike Shula as OC

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

If you feel that it's negative to have feelings other that sunshine and rainbows that's a "you issue", bro. 

 

Like I said in my 1st post you quoted..I'm not saying he would be bad. Just gives pause to wonder why of he's such a lock at greatness more teams aren't in one him.

 

The #1 factor behind who gets looks for OC and DC positions is whether or not they have ties to the HC, not how they're regarded by their peers as an assistant coach.

 

That's the "catch-22" the change in rules where teams can no longer block assistant interviews for OC and DC and where teams are required to interview 2 minority candidates from outside their organization, are designed to "shake up"

 

Whether they will succeed or not remains to to be seen.  Coaching in the NFL is a high stakes high pressure job, and HC will continue to try to hedge their bets against conflictions during the season by choosing familiarity.  I'm not saying that's the best path - there's a lot of research saying that diverse project teams have more initial conflict but achieve higher levels of results - but it's an understandable path.

[purple haze]

12 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

12 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Because the reports say so. You have nothing, I at least have something.

 

SNY.tv's Ralph Vacchiano reports Giants head coach Brian Daboll is "very high" on Daniel Jones. 

Vacchiano cited sources who said Daboll and new Giants general manager Joe Schoen told team ownership that the team could win with Jones under center. The team has stunted Jones' growth and potential at every turn. Jason Garrett's bland, predictable offense never put Jones in position to succeed, and the Giants' schematic and organizational dysfunction under Joe Judge did the quarterback no favors. As Giants owner John Mara put it: “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.” A mobile QB with a serviceably strong throwing arm, Jones probably doesn't have the ceiling of Josh Allen -- who Daboll developed in Buffalo -- but has a hint of upside in a more inventive offensive system that plays to his strengths.

 

https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player-news

 

No one is "pretending", you fool. It has already been reported, genius. From Rotoworld this morning:

 

 

 

SNY.tv's Ralph Vacchiano reports Giants head coach Brian Daboll is "very high" on Daniel Jones. 

Vacchiano cited sources who said Daboll and new Giants general manager Joe Schoen told team ownership that the team could win with Jones under center. The team has stunted Jones' growth and potential at every turn. Jason Garrett's bland, predictable offense never put Jones in position to succeed, and the Giants' schematic and organizational dysfunction under Joe Judge did the quarterback no favors. As Giants owner John Mara put it: “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.” A mobile QB with a serviceably strong throwing arm, Jones probably doesn't have the ceiling of Josh Allen -- who Daboll developed in Buffalo -- but has a hint of upside in a more inventive offensive system that plays to his strengths.

 

https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player-news

 

"irony"

 

How is my opinion not backed up by anything?

 

Literally a report just came out this morning on Rotoworld. Open mouth, insert foot.

 

 

 

SNY.tv's Ralph Vacchiano reports Giants head coach Brian Daboll is "very high" on Daniel Jones. 

Vacchiano cited sources who said Daboll and new Giants general manager Joe Schoen told team ownership that the team could win with Jones under center. The team has stunted Jones' growth and potential at every turn. Jason Garrett's bland, predictable offense never put Jones in position to succeed, and the Giants' schematic and organizational dysfunction under Joe Judge did the quarterback no favors. As Giants owner John Mara put it: “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.” A mobile QB with a serviceably strong throwing arm, Jones probably doesn't have the ceiling of Josh Allen -- who Daboll developed in Buffalo -- but has a hint of upside in a more inventive offensive system that plays to his strengths.

 

https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player-news

That report came out this morning.   When I addressed you there was no “report” offered from you that I saw.
 

I also stated that Daboll might like Jones, but there could be other reasons he took the job outside of liking Daniel Jones.   I hate to break this to you, that can still be the case even with the “report” you cite.  It’s a three dimensional world we live in.   Daniel Jones is there so Daboll’s not going to talk down on him.  Let’s see what their QB room looks like at the start of camp, then we’ll know how much he actually “likes” him.  

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by purple haze

[Doc]

It will certainly be interesting to see what Daboll can do with Jones. 

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/30/2022 at 6:24 AM, Einstein said:

 

There is actually zero evidence (outside of trying to get a job) that points to Dabol liking Daniel Jones.

And him actually stating that he likes him. As does his GM so that’s evidence.
But your saying he’s saying it to get a job. During interviews he could actually say.. hey I don’t like your QB. They could easily draft one in the top 10 or even early in the 2nd(Carson Strong) for example. Or go into the QB market with the 2 top 10 picks they have.

Why would he want to commit to a QB who will essentially determine his success as HC if he doesn’t believe it. Rather he would say that’s not my guy. I propose options A, B, or C. They are going to give him some time since he came in with JS at same time. Just my thoughts 💭 

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:20 AM, FrenchConnection said:

By all accounts Beane is making a hard push for Dorsey but he gets to make his own choice. He might choose to bolster his reputation as a QB whisperer in NY. There is a lot less risk in that than trying to follow Daboll. Any regression in Buffalo will be blamed on him.

Or he could stay and have a good shot at winning a SB with JA. Having been his coach all through his vast improvement. So that’s the upside. But can see both perspectives for sure.

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:03 AM, BuffaloFan68 said:

I haven’t heard about us interviewing anyone for the OC position so I’m waiting to hear we’re promoting Dorsey to OC then I hope we officially hire Jordan Palmer as the QB coach. I figure this would be a perfect case for Josh. 
Let’s Go Buffalo!!!!!

That would very cool. But JP lives in the Dana Point area of CA. Just north of SD. He’s created himself a swell business as a QB guru.
Combine climate and the insane workload of NFL coaching I don’t see it happening. But if it did I would also be pumped. 

[QLBillsFan]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:24 AM, HamptonBillsfan said:

And then was fired shortly after for running that franchise into the ground and alienating the fanbase because he thought he invented modern offensive football strategy. By the way, why hasn't Doug gotten a sniff of OC or HC jobs since being fired? Could be his head is to big for the room.

From what I have heard DP took the fall for the disfunction of the Eagles front office. He could have handled it better certainly, but he’s a knowledgeable offensive mind with a decent amount of success. I think he could do a great deal with a talent like JA.
Think he’s a potential candidate for the Jags if the Leftwich deal goes sour. He’s asking for GM to fired and bringing his own guy in. If not he’s not taking the gig. 

[QLBillsFan]

13 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

One thing that stands out for me at least as somewhat of a red flag on Dorsey.

 

If he's such a hot name "rising star"...why are the only 2 teams mentioned for his services the Bills (who he is with now) and the Giants (who are where his old boss ended up)? I would figure with the, what 9 teams looking for HCs and new staff if he was such a hot commodity he would be mentioned more.

 

Not saying he would be bad at the job. But it"s definitely something that would be a pause for concearn for me.

He worked with DaBoll. All the other OC candidates are likely linked to other teams for the same reason. I would have zero concerns about his ability to call plays. JA is more knowledgeable now and can help that transition significantly. 

[davefan66]

15 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

One thing that stands out for me at least as somewhat of a red flag on Dorsey.

 

If he's such a hot name "rising star"...why are the only 2 teams mentioned for his services the Bills (who he is with now) and the Giants (who are where his old boss ended up)? I would figure with the, what 9 teams looking for HCs and new staff if he was such a hot commodity he would be mentioned more.

 

Not saying he would be bad at the job. But it"s definitely something that would be a pause for concearn for me.

Backchannels.

 

He has most likely let it be known he isn’t interested in any other job to whom ever tries to court him.  
 

Jim Harbaugh should have his name attached to more openings.  He doesn’t because he’s let it be known what team(s) he’d coach for.  He most likely chose the team(s) he is willing to leave the college ranks for and initiated contact with them.  My guess is he wants the Vikings job and is using the ‘phins to help close that deal.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:16 AM, tyknitty said:

Just to be factual, Jason Garrett bought the entire Giants operation down with his prehistoric offense.  We've seen teams overcome a bad Oline like the Giants have but we've never seen a team overcome a bad oline and a scheme that wasn't NFL ready.  John Mara hired JG, not Judge. Judge wanted him gone, a lot of Giants fans feel like Garrett's offense is the Real reason behind Jones, Barkley, Golladays play and is the indirect reason Gettleman and Judge got fired.  This is why there's still belief around the league and in the building [Schoen, Daboll, Mara, Judge before he left] that Jones can be legit.  I stopped in to see what you guys had to say about Dorsey and I had to reply to this comment about the offensive mind of Jason Garrett.  This is why a lot of Giants fans like myself think the most important hire for us is the OC lol.  BTW McDermott blew that game with that brain dead decision to kick the ball in the endzone!  Robbed you guys of a SB victory I think.  Whoever won that game was gonna win the SB in my opinion.  

I would have kicked it deep too with 13 seconds left  your defense should be able to hold up.