Isaiah McKenzie aka, Lil Dirty, sounds like he’s moving on

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Any time he's been used he produces. For whatever reason we don't use him. Like Bates. 

 

Like I said, he's been a decent player and probably has the potential to do more. Probably should have done more quite frankly but there there were many mouths to feed here and this coaching staff seems to gravitate towards giving veterans as much playing time as possible even when there are younger, better players available.

 

But to assume he's going to go from an average of @ 25 catches/200 yards/1 TD per season and even double that is wishful thinking even in an offense that gives him more snaps. If he were to do that though either in Buffalo or elsewhere it's another major indictment on this coaching staff.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I thought Stevenson would be the replacement for Beasley at some point. People are shitting on him about the return game but we know nothing about him as a WR at this point. Which is no surprise after injury and having McKenzie with more experience in that roll at this point. McD loves experience. 
 

I like McKenzie and think we’d be fine if we let Beasley go to free cap space. If anybody doesn’t think he can do it go back and watch the Pats game 2021 and Dolphins game 2022. Kid makes plays. He’s be learning under Beas for 3 years now, he’s ready. 

 

I could be wrong but I think they drafted Stevenson to be that speedy deep threat WR we lacked after we parted from John Brown.

 

The problem I have with Stevenson in the return game is that he seemed to lack field vision and cutting ability, which is something you can show in any aspect of the game.  Guy without field vision or cutting ability is not a guy who's gonna play in the slot.  Miles to go there. 

 

The guy you draft in the 6th is typically a guy who doesn't have a complete game and who is expected to need a couple years of development, so I'm sure he'll come into camp.

[BananaB]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong but I think they drafted Stevenson to be that speedy deep threat WR we lacked after we parted from John Brown.

 

The problem I have with Stevenson in the return game is that he seemed to lack field vision and cutting ability, which is something you can show in any aspect of the game.  Guy without field vision or cutting ability is not a guy who's gonna play in the slot.  Miles to go there. 

 

The guy you draft in the 6th is typically a guy who doesn't have a complete game and who is expected to need a couple years of development, so I'm sure he'll come into camp.

 
So you are basing everything on his return game. 😂 Coming out of college his vision with the ball in his hand was one of his strengths. We’ll see I guess. I’m not saying he’s the answer but I always thought that’s what they would be hoping for him.  Just think it’s funny people giving up on a WR because of a shaky rookie season returning punts. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

Good for Isaiah, he deserves to get paid. Beane needs to keep the team firing ,full throttle. His coaching hirings have been excellent. Replacing players are part of the job description. #5, if he learns ball security should be useful in that role. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Jesus Christ you twisted "he's produced when used" into something completely different. 

 

This is what you said: "What does Cole Beasely have to do with McKenzie producing when on the field? Cole Beasely being good doesn't mean that McKenzie has to be bad. That's not how this works. McKenzie can be used in different ways and there's room for both on the roster if the cap allows"

 

I was responding to what you said in the post I quoted, not to something you said several posts back.

What do you think the rules are, you get to keep adding discussion, but folks talking with you are performing some sort of annoying lambada if they don't stay back?

[Not at the table Karlos]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is what you said: "What does Cole Beasely have to do with McKenzie producing when on the field? Cole Beasely being good doesn't mean that McKenzie has to be bad. That's not how this works. McKenzie can be used in different ways and there's room for both on the roster if the cap allows"

 

I was responding to what you said in the post I quoted, not to something you said several posts back.

What do you think the rules are, you get to keep adding discussion, but folks talking with you are performing some sort of annoying lambada if they don't stay back?

What was the point of you replying to me in the first place? You didn't add anything either way just made a statement that could be true of anyone. When I questioned that you said(paraphrasing) the good needed to outweigh the bad. I proved that the good does in fact outweigh the bad. Then you change the conversation to what diggs says about Cole Beasely. I don't care what is said about another topic when that's not what's being discussed. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

What was the point of you replying to me in the first place? You didn't add anything either way just made a statement that could be true of anyone. When I questioned that you said(paraphrasing) the good needed to outweigh the bad. I proved that the good does in fact outweigh the bad. Then you change the conversation to what diggs says about Cole Beasely. I don't care what is said about another topic when that's not what's being discussed. 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 1/24/2022 at 1:00 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe but Ive followed him on social media enough and listen to his weekly podcast to know he says things the way he says them for a reason. The Bills don’t seem to value him. So logical assumption, but anything can happen. 

 

And Coach McD has talked consistently about improving oneself and accountability.

He may not be accepting the blame for mistakes he made and that is the disconnect.

I have been fan of his since almost when he got here.

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, BananaB said:

I thought Stevenson would be the replacement for Beasley at some point. People are shitting on him about the return game but we know nothing about him as a WR at this point. Which is no surprise after injury and having McKenzie with more experience in that roll at this point. McD loves experience. 
 

I like McKenzie and think we’d be fine if we let Beasley go to free cap space. If anybody doesn’t think he can do it go back and watch the Pats game 2021 and Dolphins game 2022. Kid makes plays. He’s be learning under Beas for 3 years now, he’s ready. 

McKenzie getting benched speaks loudly to me. Yes, he's a good player but to me he's just a guy. I have no issues moving elsewhere including developing Stevenson more.

[Victory Formation]

I would love it if the Bills went after Wan’Dale Robinson the WR from Kentucky. He is Lil Dirty + Beezer all wrapped up in one. He is that explosive slot receiver that we need on offense.

 

 

 

 

[The Jokeman]

10 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I would love it if the Bills went after Wan’Dale Robinson the WR from Kentucky. He is Lil Dirty + Beezer all wrapped up in one. He is that explosive slot receiver that we need on offense.

 

 

 

 

He could be on a short list of 3rd round targets. The key is finding guys who can get seperation and/or short area quickness vs long speed imo. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by The Jokeman

[Victory Formation]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

He could be on a short list of 3rd round targets. The key is finding guys who can get seperation and/or short area quickness vs long speed imo. 

They see him as a bottom of the 2nd round kind of guy. I’m not sure if he will be there in RD3, but he’s an incredible talent and would give us a bonafide slot receiver behind Diggs and Davis. I would love to see Beasley mentor him for a year before his contract runs out.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Victory Formation said:

They see him as a bottom of the 2nd round kind of guy. I’m not sure if he will be there in RD3, but he’s an incredible talent and would give us a bonafide slot receiver behind Diggs and Davis. I would love to see Beasley mentor him for a year before his contract runs out.

Diggs and Davis definitely guys for the outside. Beasley in the slot is good if healthy. Stevenson isn't a bad WR when he played either. I just think we have higher needs than WR even if McKenzie leaves.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

They see him as a bottom of the 2nd round kind of guy. I’m not sure if he will be there in RD3, but he’s an incredible talent and would give us a bonafide slot receiver behind Diggs and Davis. I would love to see Beasley mentor him for a year before his contract runs out.

 

I approve of this plan.

 

I think Beasley may be a cap casualty, however.  Did you hear Beane's presser?  He "can still play in the NFL"  He'll "continue to play in the league"  "He's still under contract to us, we expect him back"

 

He sounded...unenthused.

 

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Diggs and Davis definitely guys for the outside. Beasley in the slot is good if healthy. Stevenson isn't a bad WR when he played either. I just think we have higher needs than WR even if McKenzie leaves.

 

I think we better address receiver even if McKenzie is brought back.  Beasley is 33 and either his play is really falling off, or he got injured and played through it.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I approve of this plan.

 

I think Beasley may be a cap casualty, however.  Did you hear Beane's presser?  He "can still play in the NFL"  He'll "continue to play in the league"  "He's still under contract to us, we expect him back"

 

He sounded...unenthused.

 

Injuries catching up with Beasley but love him extended at reduced cap hit. Yet not sure we would with his age.

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I approve of this plan.

 

I think Beasley may be a cap casualty, however.  Did you hear Beane's presser?  He "can still play in the NFL"  He'll "continue to play in the league"  "He's still under contract to us, we expect him back"

 

He sounded...unenthused.

 

 

I think we better address receiver even if McKenzie is brought back.  Beasley is 33 and either his play is really falling off, or he got injured and played through it.

I'm okay with a depth/developmental WR in Round 3-7.

[MJS]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:55 AM, Niagara Dude said:

Hate to say it but I bet Pats sign him

Come on. We don't need this inferiority complex anymore. Mac Jones would be throwing to him.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Come on. We don't need this inferiority complex anymore. Mac Jones would be throwing to him.

Mac Jones without an OC. That said without McDaniels it's going to see what happens to Pats O going forward.

[BananaB]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

Mac Jones without an OC. That said without McDaniels it's going to see what happens to Pats O going forward.

If rumours are true and McKenzie is pissed off because he was benched after fumbling, Pats probably ain’t the spot for him

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, BananaB said:

If rumours are true and McKenzie is pissed off because he was benched after fumbling, Pats probably ain’t the spot for him

True, I could see McKenzie in a team with a young QB with questions in their top 3 WR group. Chicago was interested last year, new GM/HC but still good team fit IMO or maybe the Lions, Jets or Jags.

Edited February 9, 2022 by The Jokeman

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I approve of this plan.

 

I think Beasley may be a cap casualty, however.  Did you hear Beane's presser?  He "can still play in the NFL"  He'll "continue to play in the league"  "He's still under contract to us, we expect him back"

 

He sounded...unenthused.

I agree that Beasley is towards the end of his career, but can he still move the chains? I would say so. Should he be a focal point in our offense? Probably not, but if he takes a pay cut and wants to stick around as a depth piece I’d love to have him. He’s probably good for 40-50 catches. 
 

Keep in mind that he’s a smart player and he has solid hands and is an excellent route runner and Allen knows him and trusts him and they have chemistry together. I’m pretty sure Allen wants him back and that counts for something.

 

Anyways, I’m not a mind reader, but if I had to read between the lines and make a guess, I would think that Beane is posturing towards Beeze to take a pay cut if he wants to stay. I think what ultimately determines the outcome is the bottom line financially for both parties. If Beasley thinks he can get more money elsewhere, he’ll leave. If he thinks he can’t? He’ll stay. We all know he’s lost a step, but there is still value there at the right price. Also, if our #1, #2 or #3 WR goes down, he would be a nice safety net for Allen.

[BubbaT]

I'm hoping they can keep him. The Bills need speed. I don't want to see them lose a speed player that they would also have to replace just to get even. That said, money is going to be tight and there may well be other, more significant, uses for it. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm okay with a depth/developmental WR in Round 3-7.

 

The other viewpoint is, the offense has only 1 first round pick invested in it (2 if you count Diggs) vs 7 or something like that on the D

Maybe it's time to put a bit more investment into the offense.

[Victory Formation]

24 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Diggs and Davis definitely guys for the outside. Beasley in the slot is good if healthy. Stevenson isn't a bad WR when he played either. I just think we have higher needs than WR even if McKenzie leaves

In no way will Stevenson ever amount to anything, he’s terrible. If Stevenson is starting for us in any way we are in trouble. Wan’Dale is a potentially elite slot WR.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The other viewpoint is, the offense has only 1 first round pick invested in it (2 if you count Diggs) vs 7 or something like that on the D

Maybe it's time to put a bit more investment into the offense.

Micah and Jordan aren't getting younger. It's a tough as we really in the last year or two to likely be at this level unless Josh keeps at his current pace and defense can be middle of the road or better. On offense I want a RB1.

3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

In no way will Stevenson ever amount to anything, he’s terrible. If Stevenson is starting for us in any way we are in trouble. Wan’Dale is a potentially elite slot WR.

I'm not calling for Stevenson to be a starter this in 2023 but 2024 he could. 

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Micah and Jordan aren't getting younger. It's a tough as we really in the last year or two to likely be at this level unless Josh keeps at his current pace and defense can be middle of the road or better. On offense I want a RB1.

They were both incredible this year. Poyer and Hyde are probably the best safety tandem in the league. They feast on QBs like a school of piranhas out there, 10 INTs between the two of them, that’s very uncommon in the NFL to have that level of production.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

They were both incredible this year. Poyer and Hyde are probably the best safety tandem in the league. They feast on QBs like a school of piranhas out there, 10 INTs between the two of them, that’s very uncommon in the NFL to have that level of production.

I know but father time catches up with everybody eventually. I'm looking at 3 years down the road as to me that's when you can fairly grade drafted players.

[Punching Bag]

37 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Diggs and Davis definitely guys for the outside. Beasley in the slot is good if healthy. Stevenson isn't a bad WR when he played either. I just think we have higher needs than WR even if McKenzie leaves.

 

Diggs is good in slot or outside,

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Diggs is good in slot or outside,

But he can't play both I suppose as he ages we can slot him if unearth another outside guy.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, BubbaT said:

I'm hoping they can keep him. The Bills need speed. I don't want to see them lose a speed player that they would also have to replace just to get even. That said, money is going to be tight and there may well be other, more significant, uses for it. 

 

This is basically where I am.  If we "feel the need for speed", keep all you can.  OTOH, I'm not persuaded by McDermott's words that they truly believe McKenzie can run all the plays that Beasley can.  I think if they did, McKenzie might actually have seen the field for a couple games when Beasley is nursing sore or cracked ribs, or a broken fibula.  So what's McKenzie's role?

 

You really need your #5 and #6 WR to play Teams, and it's optimal if actually #3 or #4 do it.

 

[Victory Formation]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

I know but father time catches up with everybody eventually. I'm looking at 3 years down the road as to me that's when you can fairly grade drafted players.

To me, I think CB, OG, LB and NT are our biggest needs. Especially corner, give me a corner over a safety in a NY minute.
 

Picture this, Levi Wallace is a FA, spotrac is projecting his yearly salary to be around $9M/yr. Do you want Buffalo to sink that much money into a player of that caliber? Look what you’re getting! Draft a CB RD1, preferably someone with the last name Elam or Booth Jr. 

 

OG is also a big need as well. I love me some Bates, but if we get a killer guard we can cut Feliciano and free up some cap room.

 

And btw, not to skip over your previous post on Stevenson, but the guy doesn’t look fit for the NFL. I think he’ll be out of the league in 2-3 years. Hopefully he sticks around long enough to get a pension. Didn’t he fumble the ball in the playoffs?

[Chicken Boo]

14 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

so either Isaiah is trying to get one last favor from Bills mafia or he is open to returning. Either way, he has been a good Buffalo Bill and he does have nice dance moves .. so a little support would not hurt. Isaiah did retweet this .. so it is a legit favor request.

 

 

 

Aguanile is a banger.

[The Jokeman]

10 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

To me, I think CB, OG, LB and NT are our biggest needs. Especially corner, give me a corner over a safety in a NY minute.
 

Picture this, Levi Wallace is a FA, spotrac is projecting his yearly salary to be around $9M/yr. Do you want Buffalo to sink that much money into a player of that caliber? Look what you’re getting! Draft a CB RD1, preferably someone with the last name Elam or Booth Jr. 

 

OG is also a big need as well. I love me some Bates, but if we get a killer guard we can cut Feliciano and free up some cap room.

 

And btw, not to skip over your previous post on Stevenson, but the guy doesn’t look fit for the NFL. I think he’ll be out of the league in 2-3 years. Hopefully he sticks around long enough to get a pension. Didn’t he fumble the ball in the playoffs?

I remember Stevenson in the preseason doing well. He also showed seperation I'm regular season. As a KR he struggled but wasn't horrible all the timr. I agree with your draft needs and throw in RB1 I'm there too. At OG we let Feliciano go and find a solid depth guy as Bates and Williams were great down the stretch.

 

I bring up Hyde and Poyet as think if improve CB2 it makes S less important so we can afford for them to slip as they age.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by The Jokeman

[Victory Formation]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

I remember Stevenson in the preseason doing well. He also showed seperation I'm regular season. As a KR he struggled but wasn't horrible all the timr. I agree with your draft needs and throw in RB1 I'm there too. At OG we let Feliciano go and find a solid depth guy as Bated and Willis were great down the stretch.

 

Bills fans have an amusing infatuation with UDFA/7th picks at WR. First it was Martin Nance and then that DaRick Rogers guy. How often does that work out? I’m not saying it never happens, but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. I think Stevie Johnson is the only one that I can think of in recent memory that actually panned out.

I think WR is a huge need for this team as well, the only reason I didn’t include it in our draft needs is because I think Buffalo needs to go here in FA. I’ll admit that there’s a few guys I’m salivating over in the draft, mainly that kid from USC and that kid from Kentucky, but WR typically has a steep learning curve and I think that there’s some really quality plug in play guys in FA that would provide us with great value financially and could provide us instantly with a high level of production.

 

I think that Buffalo should ultimately go corner and OL in the draft, mainly because we can free up big money here by cutting Feliciano and by not overpaying an average corner like Levi Wallace big money.

 

I would also argue that a solid LB is a necessity as well. I like the Tindall kid from Georgia, he’s probably a big upgrade over Edmunds, Klein and Matekavich and we would be paying him a lot less money and we could hopefully free up even more cap room here as well.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

If rumours are true and McKenzie is pissed off because he was benched after fumbling, Pats probably ain’t the spot for him

 

I think McKenzie recognized the benching as something he needed to improve from.

 

What I think McKenzie is salty about is not getting more opportunity to play. 

 

I think he feels he can start in the slot, or at least share more snaps.  If the Bills keep Beasley and Dorsey/Brady (if he's passing game coordinator) see McKenzie the same way and the Bills keep Beasley, McKenzie owes it to his NFL career to find a team that will give him more opportunity.

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Bills fans have an amusing infatuation with UDFA/7th picks at WR. First it was Martin Nance and then that DaRick Rogers guy. How often does that work out? I’m not saying it never happens, but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. I think Stevie Johnson is the only one that I can think of in recent memory that actually panned out.

I think WR is a huge need for this team as well, the only reason I didn’t include it in our draft needs is because I think Buffalo needs to go here in FA. I’ll admit that there’s a few guys I’m salivating over in the draft, mainly that kid from USC and that kid from Kentucky, but WR typically has a steep learning curve and I think that there’s some really quality plug in play guys in FA that would provide us with great value financially and could provide us instantly with a high level of production.

 

I think that Buffalo should ultimately go corner and OL in the draft, mainly because we can free up big money here by cutting Feliciano and by not overpaying an average corner like Levi Wallace big money.

 

I would also argue that a solid LB is a necessity as well. I like the Tindall kid from Georgia, he’s probably a big upgrade over Edmunds, Klein and Matekavich and we would be paying him a lot less money and we could hopefully free up even more cap room here as well.

I agree WR take time to develop which looking for Stevenson to do nut all for adding a guy to the mix too but again not top 3 round pick. If we could get a guy like Jamison Crowder on a cheap deal I could see cutting Beasley and use savings on a veteran DT for rotation and ot replace Star. Yet Crowder injury history is risky.

 

I 100% agree on CB2 and OL depth. LB depth nice but maybe find a cheaper AJ Klein type and draft Rinds replacement next year.

[Nitro]

Bills most likely will draft a WR and sign one FA.  McKenzie had his moments and could be the number three but he seems to  want out.

[BananaB]

45 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Bills fans have an amusing infatuation with UDFA/7th picks at WR. First it was Martin Nance and then that DaRick Rogers guy. How often does that work out? I’m not saying it never happens, but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. I think Stevie Johnson is the only one that I can think of in recent memory that actually panned out.

I think WR is a huge need for this team as well, the only reason I didn’t include it in our draft needs is because I think Buffalo needs to go here in FA. I’ll admit that there’s a few guys I’m salivating over in the draft, mainly that kid from USC and that kid from Kentucky, but WR typically has a steep learning curve and I think that there’s some really quality plug in play guys in FA that would provide us with great value financially and could provide us instantly with a high level of production.

 

I think that Buffalo should ultimately go corner and OL in the draft, mainly because we can free up big money here by cutting Feliciano and by not overpaying an average corner like Levi Wallace big money.

 

I would also argue that a solid LB is a necessity as well. I like the Tindall kid from Georgia, he’s probably a big upgrade over Edmunds, Klein and Matekavich and we would be paying him a lot less money and we could hopefully free up even more cap room here as well.

All kinds of late round WR picks go on to have decent careers in the NFL, not just Stevie Johnson. 
 

You normally see these guys turn up more on a team with solid QB play, something Bills haven’t had in many years but have now. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BananaB

[BullBuchanan]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:58 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

But your assessment of Beasley is just as bad as someone comparing him to Kupp.  Cole has been more than just a guy...hes been the best or one of the best slot and 3rd down WR's in the NFL a lot of his career.  If you think that is something anyone can do, then you don't understand football enough to even discuss it.

 

He is an exceptional route runner, he is almost impossible to cover 1 on 1 out of the slot, and he has excellent hands.  Not to mention, he is a tough player too despite his small stature.  He is a third down conversion waiting to happen.  He has made so many critical 3rd downs for us its almost impossible to count.  Plays other guys couldn't have made, including a lot of incredible catches, YAC where he fought his way to the first, etc.  

 

This is the NFL, this isn't fantasy football where the only WR's that matter are the ones with the most gaudy stats.  Cole plays an important role for the Buffalo Bills and has always produced when called upon.  People want to dump on him because they incorrectly think he "lost a step" this year because his stats were not as big as last years.  Well neither were Diggs...why...because our recieving weapons were much deeper this year and Josh spread the ball around.  Not because Cole suddenly wasn't as good.  

 

Cole is no where near a JAG player.  McKenzie is a JAG, Cole is one of the best slot receivers in the game period.  

 

 

None of this is true, but ok. I shouldn't be surprised that you're @ me with an axe to grind. Should I be paying you rent?

For all the talk about how good Cole's hands are, he has crushing drops at inopportune times. He gets credit for being tough because he's always hurt. I'm not sure it's a good or a bad thing that he plays through it. He had a career year at age 31 and wasn't a critical player his first 7 years in the league. We've turned him into something, but I believe it's a system role that a ton of players could fill with the kind of volume we push him, especially now that he appears to lost a significant bit of quickness and speed.

He ranked int he 50s this year in catch percentage and yards, in the 100s for YAC, 48 in 1rst downs, top 45 in drops and ints against, he had a single TD, 172nd in passer rating when targeted, and it goes on and on and on.

Whatever you think he maybe once was, he clearly isn't anymore. He's not a bad player, but if you can't replace him (especially at his cost), you aren't that good at finding talent in my book.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Well, if he goes, we'll still have the wheat fields and the clothes lines and the junkyards and the highways come between us.  That will always keep him gentle on our minds.

Just make sure we keep McKittrick!

[Warcodered]