Defense: let’s grade and comment your grade

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I'm grading on a curve.  Stop obsessively investing in the defense and re-allocate those assets/money to the Offense next year and i'll grade our performance a B.  Still waiting for this high paid/high drafted DL to become a force at something other than pressuring QB's without the sacks.  

 

LOL...you're grading on a curve??

Basically you're saying " I'm going to look for anything...anything to make the defense look bad so I'm going to make up a grading system."

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Made one impactful stop on a 3rd or 4th and short (yes a  one) and that was it.

 

Thank you for proving my point again that you don't believe in a 4 quarter game.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL...you're grading on a curve??

Basically you're saying " I'm going to look for anything...anything to make the defense look bad so I'm going to make up a grading system."

 

Thank you for proving my point again that you don't believe in a 4 quarter game.

 

Yes, actually.  This defense has played very well against one good team, KC.  And if that's who they're built to beat, and they do it again in the Playoffs... I'll consider the investment worth it.  

 

But to look at what Josh needs to do for this team, some in part due to the assets devoted to the Defense this year... this Defense should not be bottom of the barrel in terms of sacks, while also being poor to average at stopping the run. 

 

In a game with limited possessions, where our Defense gives up 21 points on 3/3 red zone TD's and allows a handful of 4th down conversions...i'm sorry, but that's a C performance, given what this defense has been allocated in terms of resources.   

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by SCBills

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL...you're grading on a curve??

Basically you're saying " I'm going to look for anything...anything to make the defense look bad so I'm going to make up a grading system."

 

Thank you for proving my point again that you don't believe in a 4 quarter game.

Wow you're right one stop.....  Let's have a parade.....

 

If Allen doesn't have a game like yesterday, NE probably scores 31+, even with Mac.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Yes, actually.  This defense has played very well against one good team, KC.  And if that's who they're built to beat, and they do it again in the Playoffs... I'll consider the investment worth it.  

 

But to look at what Josh needs to do for this team, some in part due to the assets devoted to the Defense this year... this Defense should not be bottom of the barrel in terms of sacks, while also being poor to average at stopping the run. 

 

In a game with limited possessions, where our Defense gives up 21 points on 3/3 red zone TD's and allows a handful of 4th down conversions...i'm sorry, but that's a C performance, given what this defense has been allocated in terms of resources.   

 

 

Yep, you and 1972 don't believe in a 4 quarter game.  You don't care about the 5 other drives...just focus and pound that table on the 3 where they scored lol.

It wasn't like we were playing the Texans, we were playing a team that won 7 out of their last 8 and first place in our division.  

 

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Wow you're right one stop.....  Let's have a parade.....

 

If Allen doesn't have a game like yesterday, NE probably scores 31+, even with Mac.

 

You mean Mac Jones who was 14-32, 4.5 average, 145 passing yards, 2 INT's and 0 TD's?

 

This is comment is so stupid that it's absurd....good lord.

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep, you and 1972 don't believe in a 4 quarter game.  You don't care about the 5 other drives...just focus and pound that table on the 3 where they scored lol.

It wasn't like we were playing the Texans, we were playing a team that won 7 out of their last 8 and first place in our division.  

 

 

You mean Mac Jones who was 14-32, 4.5 average, 145 passing yards, 2 INT's and 0 TD's?

 

This is comment is so stupid that it's absurd....good lord.

 

Mac Jones, Baker Mayfield, Tua (A games) are Josh Allen (B games). 

 

There's a reason why there are levels to this.   

 

We invested a quarter of a billion dollars into Josh and that's why he is capable of so much more than most other QB's and graded differently.  

 

Same goes for a Defense that is hogging valuable cap space and draft picks, while we need Josh Allen to be prime John Elway given our OL and run game thus far. 

 

This Defense should be better than they are.  And don't give me stats built on a year of mauling bad QB's/Offenses.  That was a C game they played against New England.  Throw some of that money and some draft picks to the Offense and I won't have higher expectations than what we saw from them against a very limited QB-led Offense. 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by SCBills

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep, you and 1972 don't believe in a 4 quarter game.  You don't care about the 5 other drives...just focus and pound that table on the 3 where they scored lol.

It wasn't like we were playing the Texans, we were playing a team that won 7 out of their last 8 and first place in our division.  

 

 

You mean Mac Jones who was 14-32, 4.5 average, 145 passing yards, 2 INT's and 0 TD's?

 

This is comment is so stupid that it's absurd....good lord.

No your defence like the Bills is....  But I will cheer for the Bills.....

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

Mac Jones, Baker Mayfield, Tua (A games) are Josh Allen (B games). 

 

There's a reason why there are levels to this.   

 

We invested a quarter of a billion dollars into Josh and that's why he is capable of so much more than most other QB's and graded differently.  

 

Same goes for a Defense that is hogging valuable cap space and draft picks, while we need Josh Allen to be prime John Elway given our OL and run game.  

 

This is your response when I say you don't believe in a 4 quarter game?  I mean, you don't.  You are manipulating stats to fit your agenda by saying " I am grading on a curve."  

 

The defense certainly wasn't lights out but they played well.  The Pats were unsuccessful on 63% of their drives.  They were really poor on those drives too.  That to you is unacceptable.  

 

The bottom line is I believe in a 4 quarter game, you don't.  

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No your defence like the Bills is....  But I will cheer for the Bills.....

 

I'm assuming you were born in 1972 but you act like someone born in 2010....grow up.

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is your response when I say you don't believe in a 4 quarter game?  I mean, you don't.  You are manipulating stats to fit your agenda by saying " I am grading on a curve."  

 

The defense certainly wasn't lights out but they played well.  The Pats were unsuccessful on 63% of their drives.  They were really poor on those drives too.  That to you is unacceptable.  

 

The bottom line is I believe in a 4 quarter game, you don't.  

 

No idea what you keep referencing about a 4 quarter game.  You took issue with me saying that was a C game from our defense.  If we didn't have high draft picks and money all over the place, I'd grade them higher for that game.   

 

In a league with a salary cap, when you devote as much as we do to Defense this year, there are higher expectations.  

 

Just like Josh Allen is graded on a curve league-wide as being compared to the elite, so too should our Defense have higher expectations given the investment.  Yesterday was a C game for a team with the investment we have on that side of the ball. 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by SCBills

[HamSandwhich]

How did the defense allow Mac to complete more than 3 passes? Pathetic! 

Edited December 27, 2021 by HamSandwhich

[Billsfan1972]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is your response when I say you don't believe in a 4 quarter game?  I mean, you don't.  You are manipulating stats to fit your agenda by saying " I am grading on a curve."  

 

The defense certainly wasn't lights out but they played well.  The Pats were unsuccessful on 63% of their drives.  They were really poor on those drives too.  That to you is unacceptable.  

 

The bottom line is I believe in a 4 quarter game, you don't.  

 

I'm assuming you were born in 1972 but you act like someone born in 2010....grow up.

Ooooh   burn....  BTW what did you grade the defense yesterday?  A or A+?

 

They were okay and made 2-3 plays.....  They didn't stop NE in the redzone and 3 long td drives.  

 

If the offense  wasn't so good, they would have allowed more points. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

No idea what you keep referencing about a 4 quarter game.  You took issue with me saying that was a C game from our defense.  If we didn't have high draft picks and money all over the place, I'd grade them higher for that game.   

 

In a league with a salary cap, when you devote as much as we do to Defense this year, there are higher expectations.  

 

Just like Josh Allen is graded on a curve league-wide as being compared to the elite, so too should our Defense have higher expectations given the investment.  Yesterday was a C game for a team with the investment we have on that side of the ball. 

 

You know why I’m referencing a 4 quarter game.  The defense gave up 21 points in the game, forced two turnovers and forced multiple 3 and outs.  You don’t like that stat so you’re grading on a “curve”.

But since we made investments, they need to be lights out every series.  Way to make a scale that’s unattainable.  Even the elite defenses in the league have B, C, D and F games.  
 

We are #2 in the league in defensive scoring and we give up 21 to a first place team who won 7 out of their last 8….
Good job moving the goal posts on your argument.  

[Logic]

A or A+ aren't even an option?

What an asinine LAMP post this is.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

You know why I’m referencing a 4 quarter game.  The defense gave up 21 points in the game, forced two turnovers and forced multiple 3 and outs.  You don’t like that stat so you’re grading on a “curve”.

But since we made investments, they need to be lights out every series.  Way to make a scale that’s unattainable.  Even the elite defenses in the league have B, C, D and F games.  
 

We are #2 in the league in defensive scoring and we give up 21 to a first place team who won 7 out of their last 8….
Good job moving the goal posts on your argument.  

 

You reference two turnovers, when one was a garbage time/desperation hail mary from a QB with a pop gun arm.  

 

Definitely don't need to be lights out every series.  Hold NE to say 17, with one of those drives being a FG, or 14, with one of those drives being a 4th down stop, and we're looking at a B/B+ game. 

 

Yea, the defense was ok yesterday.  C game.  

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

A or A+ aren't even an option?

What an asinine LAMP post this is.

Royalewithcheese thunks it was a very good game from his posts.  Sarcasm on my part

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Ooooh   burn....  BTW what did you grade the defense yesterday?  A or A+?

 

They were okay and made 2-3 plays.....  They didn't stop NE in the redzone and 3 long td drives.  

 

If the offense  wasn't so good, they would have allowed more points. 

 

I give the defense a B.

Again, thanks for letting us know that you don't grade a game in 4 quarters.  The 5 drives in which the New England did nothing...you completely ignore that.

 

"If the offense wasn't so good, they would have allowed more points".  WTF?  That applies to every team dude.  Any offense that gives the other team extra possessions is vulnerable to giving up more points.  Are you under the impression that saying a completely common sense cliche helps your argument or something?

Hey guess what...if Cincy's offense didn't play so well, they would have given up more points to the Ravens.  GASP!

 

You know what else is common sense?  You know how the Patriots could have scored more points?  They could have done it on the other 5 drives.  But nope, that doesn't matter to you.  

 

Good lord.

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

You reference two turnovers, when one was a garbage time/desperation hail mary from a QB with a pop gun arm.  

 

Definitely don't need to be lights out every series.  Hold NE to say 17, with one of those drives being a FG, or 14, with one of those drives being a 4th down stop, and we're looking at a B/B+ game. 

 

Yea, the defense was ok yesterday.  C game.  

 

LOL

 

Holding a team to 5 points below their season average at home without our #1 All Pro Corner and starting 1-tech....wow you're definitely tough.

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I'm going for a B-

 

Pats went 3/3 in the Red Zone and started 5/5 on 4th downs (our only stop coming on 4th and long hail mary at the end of the game). If even a few of those had gone our way this would've been an A+ performance 

[HamptonBillsfan]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Still no pass rush

Still no big plays from Edmunds 

Still over-persue 

Yet somehow were still top 3 in many defensive categories.....

Bend don't break.

Kill Edmunds every game is your mantra. 12 tackles, 6 unassisted and plenty of stunt pressures, making Jones uncomfortable. What are you watching? The guy runs down backs and you say he didn't make any plays. Hopefully the next guy they bring in will make some big plays. Edmunds plays every down and is always available. 

[kkim0904]

B-, No pass rush.

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Gave them a B-

 

The Achilles heel of this D is their inability to get to the QB with the front 4 only. They can't beat their 1 on 1's and get pushed away from the pocket all the time. 

 

This allows even the most mediocre of QBs (looking at you Mac) to find receivers on critical downs. Not being able to get off the field on 4th down was really frustrating yesterday.

 

I'm really impressed with our secondary though. Even without Tre these guys are really disciplined in their zone coverage and rarely get beat.

 

 

If Groot and AJE are taking over next year when Hughes and Addison are gone, we're in deep trouble. I know we need to draft multiple OL this April but we may have to take a runner on a late round pass rusher. 

1 hour ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Kill Edmunds every game is your mantra. 12 tackles, 6 unassisted and plenty of stunt pressures, making Jones uncomfortable. What are you watching? The guy runs down backs and you say he didn't make any plays. Hopefully the next guy they bring in will make some big plays. Edmunds plays every down and is always available. 

Dude watch Harris's 31 yard gallop and tell me where 49 was on that play. It's pretty sad.

[Rochesterfan]

13 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

For all the people that is claiming that arguing the defense performance in the game, tell me, how many of the pats’s drives you felt they wouldn’t score ? Me no one single time, lucky we have Josh and the OL that played a heck of a game, A. 

 

WTF - then you are rooting for the wrong team troll.

 

Considering they stopped them most of the game - I will take it every time.

 

My goodness there are one ignorant people on this board now.  What a downhill trend it has been.

[Billsfan1972]

The defense was not special yesterday, while the offense was.

 

Defenses are supposed to stop the opposition from scoring tds andn75 yard td drives 80% of the time. 

 

NE when they needed to respond to Bills scores did so yesterday.

 

A tipped pass int and yep a questionable penalty that instead of second and 3 (or maybe a first down at the Buffalo 38 if the Hughes late hit stood) instead was 2nd and 18 saved the Bills too in all likelihood.

 

The defense was okay at best.

 

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If Groot and AJE are taking over next year when Hughes and Addison are gone, we're in deep trouble. I know we need to draft multiple OL this April but we may have to take a runner on a late round pass rusher. 

Dude watch Harris's 31 yard gallop and tell me where 49 was on that play. It's pretty sad.

He got blocked by an O-lineman and at 3 other guys overran the play including Johnson. Big deal, how about the 12 tackles,6 solo and the QB pressures. No comment huh.

[BillMafia716ix]

Defense was decent. I say it every week but it needs to be said. I hate watching Tremaine Edmunds playing MLB!! He’s just not it

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Per Statista

 

In the years from 2010 to 2019, the offenses of the teams in the NFL gained on average 234 passing yards and 113 rushing yards per game

 

Add those together, that's 347 yards total, Pats had 288.  It's like the old Balloon perspective; you push in in one spot, someplace else it will pop out.  The Bills gave up more than average rushing +36, but less in the air -94, so overall good job.  I gave them a B-

 

 

[97bills]

20 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Our pass rush is bad, that is the fundamental problem. We don't sack QBs enough so teams never get behind the sticks. Since we rarely tackle RBs behind the LOS that compounds the problem. Mac Jones had clean pockets to work with on almost every snap. No matter how good your secondary is the coverage will break down eventually. We need to get a difference maker on the d-line next year.

I don’t no who disagreed with you but clearly they haven’t watched many bills games. Our pass rush has been bad for a few years now, let’s hope one of the rookies come along next year. 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What went wrong with the defense?? Errrr... would have liked them to be a bit better in the redzone but beyond that nothing. The defense played well.

 

You felt like they would score every drive? That explains the 22 points then.

 

The 2nd half was troubling. New England had 2 real drives in the 2nd half and scored TDs on both. No telling what happens if JC Jackson catches that interception, the Pats would have had the ball past midfield down just 5 points and coming off two consecutive TD drives where they ran it down our throat. At that point in the game I was not confident in our defense at all. I saw our DEs and LBs get totally fooled by standard New England misdirection plays again and again. I saw a defense forced to play soft zone because we have no CBs capable of holding up in man coverage and New England started taking advantage. I saw Mac Jones with a clean pocket on just about every throw. Our offense was the reason New England wasn't able to get back into the game in the 2nd half, not the defense. Allen and the offense killed them with ball control drives that ended in TDs. New England was 100% on red zone trips and 4th down conversions on drives that mattered. IMO that is very disappointing especially against a limited QB and a RB that is far from elite.

Edited December 27, 2021 by HappyDays

[GymShorts84]

B

 

Only gave up a couple big plays. Frasier is willing to sacrifice run yards in order to shut down the pass. 
 

pass rush is a problem, but I don’t think scheme can improve that much. Pass rush is about winning your one on one battle, especially with Fraiser blitzing so little. We just don’t have a guy that can get around the edge consistently. 
 

Fraiser’s scheme does deserve some credit. We are hiding a very thin cornerback group. Hyde and Poyer deserve a substantial cash bonus at the end of the year for what they do against the deep ball and helping in the run game. 

[Billsfan1972]

12 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Per Statista

 

In the years from 2010 to 2019, the offenses of the teams in the NFL gained on average 234 passing yards and 113 rushing yards per game

 

Add those together, that's 347 yards total, Pats had 288.  It's like the old Balloon perspective; you push in in one spot, someplace else it will pop out.  The Bills gave up more than average rushing +36, but less in the air -94, so overall good job.  I gave them a B-

 

 

NE only had 8 possessions the entire game.  They scored TD's on 3 of them (all 75 yard drives) or 37.5% and that is not good.  A tipped ball Int and yes a big break on the Hughes play (and NE penalty) was a turning point. 

 

The Bills defense was very good the first drive and made a big stop on 3rd and 3 from the NE 8.

 

The Defense was okay at best.  

Edited December 27, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[97bills]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The 2nd half was troubling. New England had 2 real drives in the 2nd half and scored TDs on both. No telling what happens if JC Jackson catches that interception, the Pats would have had the ball past midfield down just 5 points and coming off two consecutive TD drives where they ran it down our throat. At that point in the game I was not confident in our defense at all. I saw our DEs and LBs get totally fooled by standard New England misdirection plays again and again. I saw a defense forced to play soft zone because we have no CBs capable of holding up in man coverage and New England started taking advantage. I saw Mac Jones with a clean pocket on just about every throw. Our offense was the reason New England wasn't able to get back into the game in the 2nd half, not the defense. Allen and the offense killed them with ball control drives that ended in TDs. New England was 100% on red zone trips and 4th down conversions on drives that mattered. IMO that is disappointing especially against a limited QB and a RB that is far from elite.

And I believe McDermott felt the same way going for it on 4 down. If Allen and the offense wasn’t on I could see us losing this game, by us scoring they had to get away from the run, but we had no answer for there running game and didn’t sack Jones once. I’m super pumped for the win but I also get what your saying.  Go BILLS 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, 97bills said:

And I believe McDermott felt the same way going for it on 4 down. If Allen and the offense wasn’t on I could see us losing this game, by us scoring they had to get away from the run, but we had no answer for there running game and didn’t sack Jones once. I’m super pumped for the win but I also get what your saying.  Go BILLS 

Bills sacked Jones the first possession & that was it.....  

 

Years 1&2 it was holding the opposition under 20.....  Now it is under 25 and a rookie qb with a noodle arm?

 

Add to that NE never had good starting field position.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The 2nd half was troubling. New England had 2 real drives in the 2nd half and scored TDs on both. No telling what happens if JC Jackson catches that interception, the Pats would have had the ball past midfield down just 5 points and coming off two consecutive TD drives where they ran it down our throat. At that point in the game I was not confident in our defense at all. I saw our DEs and LBs get totally fooled by standard New England misdirection plays again and again. I saw a defense forced to play soft zone because we have no CBs capable of holding up in man coverage and New England started taking advantage. I saw Mac Jones with a clean pocket on just about every throw. Our offense was the reason New England wasn't able to get back into the game in the 2nd half, not the defense. Allen and the offense killed them with ball control drives that ended in TDs. New England was 100% on red zone trips and 4th down conversions on drives that mattered. IMO that is very disappointing especially against a limited QB and a RB that is far from elite.

 

The redzone D being 0/3 on holds was disappointing. I grant that. The rest is the way this D wants to make offenses play.

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Bills sacked Jones the first possession & that was it.....  

 

Years 1&2 it was holding the opposition under 20.....  Now it is under 25 and a rookie qb with a noodle arm?

 

Add to that NE never had good starting field position.

 

The Bills give up 17.6 points per game on average. Still keeping them under 20. 

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The redzone D being 0/3 on holds was disappointing. I grant that. The rest is the way this D wants to make offenses play.

 

I have no problem with the philosophy. The execution yesterday was just not good enough. 1st half, B+. 2nd half, D. I don’t blame McDermott or Frazier. I blame our talent. We have zero elite players in the front 7. Milano and Edmunds are pretty good. Oliver is pretty good. Everybody else is average to replacement level at this point. After all the big investments on the d-line we still another 1 or 2 next year. Forcing offenses to play mistake-free football is a great philosophy, but when the opposing offense meets that challenge you need elite players capable of making game changing plays.

[97bills]

6 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

Some fans seem to want Wade Phillips’ defense. They keep asking for Ted Washington and Pat Williams. In today’s pass-happy game, that defense would lose more than they would win. As Gunner points out, this McD/Frazier group is built to stop the pass. They are exceptional at that. We are indeed vulnerable to run-first teams. Today, there is not one team that excels at both.

 

Pick your poison. Make teams run at you and burn clock while Josh and the offense scores points. More times than not we will win that battle because the clock is our friend. I would rather have a team built this way. Could we be better on the edge-rush? Absolutely. Should we be better at 1T? Sure. Overall, I like what this D brings to the table.

I understand what your saying but CIN NE COLTS TEN, can run that rock. The first team we play in the playoffs guess what’s coming. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I have no problem with the philosophy. The execution yesterday was just not good enough. 1st half, B+. 2nd half, D. I don’t blame McDermott or Frazier. I blame our talent. We have zero elite players in the front 7. Milano and Edmunds are pretty good. Oliver is pretty good. Everybody else is average to replacement level at this point. After all the big investments on the d-line we still another 1 or 2 next year. Forcing offenses to play mistake-free football is a great philosophy, but when the opposing offense meets that challenge you need elite players capable of making game changing plays.

 

So I don't disagree we still need a game changer up front. I just don't think the second half last night was too much of an issue. Would have liked a redzone stop but two long clock killing drives for a team two scores down (they never had the ball down 1 score at any point in the second half) is part of the way this team is set up to play.