Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[sherpa]

15 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

 

don’t you mean Pasta PUTINesca???

 

Congrats.

Well played.

I didn't think of that, but quite a coincidence.

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

The problem is you don't understand that The Green New Deal in Western Europe and then the United States is getting people killed right now in Ukraine.  In the real world, due to Leftist policy initiatives, because they have no clue how to grasp externalities of their decisions.

No 

[sherpa]

26 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Nice step in right direction with Putin causing all this inflation. Wind has passed coal and nuclear! Build back better would have helped fight the inflation, too, but the coal barons in WV said no! 

 

Are you intentionally trying to make a fool of yourself?

Do you know what was in that bill that had nothing to do with energy or "building."

It was the "coal barons of West Virginia."

 

Hopefully you don't operate heavy machinery.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

Are you intentionally trying to make a fool of yourself?

Do you know what was in that bill that had nothing to do with energy or "building."

It was the "coal barons of West Virginia."

 

Hopefully you don't operate heavy machinery.

You seem lonely.

[sherpa]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

You seem lonely.

 

Another of you idiotic assumptions.

I run a commercial vineyard here.

My wife and I babysit one of our grandchildren, and their dog, every day, eight-four, and take care of our other one all the time.

I serve on the local vol fire department board of directors and am on our church's planning council.

I advise on my three kids retirement accounts and run my three grandkids college funds.

 

I regularly communicate with friends from my Navy and airline days.

 

And to boot, I take time out to laugh at your nonsense.

 

I am hardly lonely.

 

[Tiberius]

Just now, sherpa said:

 

Another of you idiotic assumptions.

I run a commercial vineyard here.

My wife and I babysit one of our grandchildren, and their dog, every day, eight-four, and take care of our other one all the time.

I serve on the local vol fire department board of directors and am on our church's planning council.

I advise on my three kids retirement accounts and run my three grandkids college funds.

 

I regularly communicate with friends from my Navy and airline days.

 

And to boot, I take time out to laugh at your nonsense.

 

I am hardly lonely.

 

W

Can't you find someone to tell that to who actually cares? 

 

Remember,you seem out,not the other way around. 

 

And please don't post a long winded bunch of bull on why I should care! 🤑

[Warcodered]

On 4/26/2022 at 6:47 AM, BillStime said:

Absurd - DeSantis must be advising Russian state tv 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

16 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Cool

[Tiberius]

Boy, wouldn't this be interesting to watch, the deliberations about nuclear deterrent 

 

How in the would would they do anything in response to Putin using a tactical nuclear weapon? 

 

 

[ALF]

Russia's tanks in Ukraine have a 'jack-in-the-box' design flaw. And the West has known about it since the Gulf war

 

Russian tanks with their tops blown off are just the latest sign that Russia's invasion of Ukraine isn't going to plan.

Hundreds of Russian tanks are thought to have been destroyed since Moscow launched its offensive, with British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace on Monday estimating it had lost as many as 580.

 

The problem relates to how the tanks' ammunition is stored. Unlike modern Western tanks, Russian ones carry multiple shells within their turrets. This makes them highly vulnerable as even an indirect hit can start a chain reaction that explodes their entire ammunition store of up to 40 shells.

 

The resulting shockwave can be enough to blast the tank's turret as high as a two-story building, as can be seen in a recent video on social media.

Drummond said exploding munitions are causing problems for almost all of the armored vehicles Russia is using in Ukraine. He gave the example of the BMD-4 infantry fighting vehicle, typically manned by up to three crew and able to carry another five soldiers. He said the BMD-4 was a "mobile coffin" that was "just obliterated" when hit by a rocket.

 

But the design flaw with its tanks should be particularly galling for Moscow as the problems have been so widely telegraphed.
They came to the attention of Western militaries during the Gulf wars against Iraq in 1991 and 2003, when large numbers of the Iraqi army's Russian-made T-72 tanks suffered the same fate -- turrets being blown from their bodies in anti-tank missile strikes.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/europe/russia-tanks-blown-turrets-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

Oh gees! Russian media is having a go at CNN's Clarissa Ward now! 

 

 

[Niagara Bill]

Today Russian TV reporting joked about their new rockets eliminating UK and NYC. State media is controlled by Putin, so do we take this as a direct threat?

 

What Reagan accomplished all future presidents and world leaders have screwed up.

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Oh gees! Russian media is having a go at CNN's Clarissa Ward now! 

 

 

Morning Tibs

I’ve asked this before. Of everyone on here, you are far and away the most concerned about the invasion in Ukraine. I asked one time if you have family there. If so, I hope that they’re OK. If not so, I’m really curious as to what about this particular conflict had you so invested? It’s not the least bit controversial of a topic. NOBODY on here or pretty much anywhere is supporting the Russian side in this war. Are you simply frustrated with NATO’s response? I don’t get it.

[Tiberius]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Morning Tibs

I’ve asked this before. Of everyone on here, you are far and away the most concerned about the invasion in Ukraine. I asked one time if you have family there. If so, I hope that they’re OK. If not so, I’m really curious as to what about this particular conflict had you so invested? It’s not the least bit controversial of a topic. NOBODY on here or pretty much anywhere is supporting the Russian side in this war. Are you simply frustrated with NATO’s response? I don’t get it.

It sickens me what Putin is doing. 

Oh, and good morning. I’m in line at Tim Horton getting coffee for me and a co-worker 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

It sickens me what Putin is doing. 

Oh, and good morning. I’m in line at Tim Horton getting coffee for me and a co-worker 

Thanks. You won’t get any push back from me on Russian aggression. What’s more troubling to me is the tepid response from the ‘free world’. Putting a Ukrainian flag on a Twitter page is nice but what does it really accomplish? Enjoy the coffee…and your day. 👍

[ALF]

26 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Today Russian TV reporting joked about their new rockets eliminating UK and NYC. State media is controlled by Putin, so do we take this as a direct threat?

 

What Reagan accomplished all future presidents and world leaders have screwed up.

 

 

 

 

Maybe Russian TV could joke about entire Russia disappearing in a nuclear war with US and NATO. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

7 hours ago, ALF said:

Russia's tanks in Ukraine have a 'jack-in-the-box' design flaw. And the West has known about it since the Gulf war

 

Russian tanks with their tops blown off are just the latest sign that Russia's invasion of Ukraine isn't going to plan.

Hundreds of Russian tanks are thought to have been destroyed since Moscow launched its offensive, with British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace on Monday estimating it had lost as many as 580.

 

The problem relates to how the tanks' ammunition is stored. Unlike modern Western tanks, Russian ones carry multiple shells within their turrets. This makes them highly vulnerable as even an indirect hit can start a chain reaction that explodes their entire ammunition store of up to 40 shells.

 

The resulting shockwave can be enough to blast the tank's turret as high as a two-story building, as can be seen in a recent video on social media.

Drummond said exploding munitions are causing problems for almost all of the armored vehicles Russia is using in Ukraine. He gave the example of the BMD-4 infantry fighting vehicle, typically manned by up to three crew and able to carry another five soldiers. He said the BMD-4 was a "mobile coffin" that was "just obliterated" when hit by a rocket.

 

But the design flaw with its tanks should be particularly galling for Moscow as the problems have been so widely telegraphed.
They came to the attention of Western militaries during the Gulf wars against Iraq in 1991 and 2003, when large numbers of the Iraqi army's Russian-made T-72 tanks suffered the same fate -- turrets being blown from their bodies in anti-tank missile strikes.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/europe/russia-tanks-blown-turrets-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

 

Hooooo boy yeah. Russia uses 3 man tank crews and replace the loader crewman with an automatic loading system.  The automatic loader stores the ammunition in a "carousel" around the turret ring, instead of a sealed off compartment in the back of the turret.  So as a Russian tank fires, the carousel clicks around like a cylinder in a revolver.  It's a great idea for keeping your tanks small and your crew sizes small, but the crew is also sitting in the middle of a ring of 125 mm shells if the tank gets hit.

 

The Soviets wanted smaller, lighter tanks to keep them cheap and mobile.  They figured in a WWIII type scenario, getting there first, with the most and the biggest guns trumped ergonomics and crew survivability. 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Hooooo boy yeah. Russia uses 3 man tank crews and replace the loader crewman with an automatic loading system.  The automatic loader stores the ammunition in a "carousel" around the turret ring, instead of a sealed off compartment in the back of the turret.  So as a Russian tank fires, the carousel clicks around like a cylinder in a revolver.  It's a great idea for keeping your tanks small and your crew sizes small, but the crew is also sitting in the middle of a ring of 125 mm shells if the tank gets hit.

 

The Soviets wanted smaller, lighter tanks to keep them cheap and mobile.  They figured in a WWIII type scenario, getting there first, with the most and the biggest guns trumped ergonomics and crew survivability. 

I think the smaller profile was also a way (they hoped) to reduce target size for anti-tank guns. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I think the smaller profile was also a way (they hoped) to reduce target size for anti-tank guns. 

 

Yup.  This war has me reading a lot of stuff, re-reading a lot of stuff with new perspective...and if you asked my woman, reading way too much about Soviet era weapons systems.

 

Doesn't help one of my coworkers is a Tanker in the Reserves.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[B-Man]

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

Today Russian TV reporting joked about their new rockets eliminating UK and NYC. State media is controlled by Putin, so do we take this as a direct threat?

 

 

Not a day goes by without Russia crying wolf about their nuclear arsenal.  Whenever they start fantasizing about nuking all their enemies, what I hear is Fredo is smart and he wants respect.

[Coffeesforclosers]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

The egghead screaming at the guy with all the medals is trying so hard to look like Tucker Carlson.

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Not a day goes by without Russia crying wolf about their nuclear arsenal.  Whenever they start fantasizing about nuking all their enemies, what I hear is Fredo is smart and he wants respect.

 

And if their nukes are as well-designed and maintained as their other equipment...

 

[Tiberius]

🥵

 

 

[ALF]

Biden to request $33B from Congress for Ukraine emergency supplemental funding

 

President Biden on Thursday is requesting $33 billion from Congress for additional security, military and humanitarian assistance for Ukraine and for U.S. efforts to strengthen European security in cooperation with NATO allies and partners.

 

The Biden administration is calling for $20.4 billion in additional security assistance for Ukraine, including $5 billion in additional drawdown authority, $6 billion for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, and $4 billion for the State Department’s Foreign Military Financing program.

 

"These resources will put urgently needed equipment into the hands of Ukraine’s military and police, as well as help NATO deter and defend against Russian aggression over the long-term," an administration official said Thursday.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-ukraine-security-assistance-request-33-billion-congress

[All_Pro_Bills]

56 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Not a day goes by without Russia crying wolf about their nuclear arsenal.  Whenever they start fantasizing about nuking all their enemies, what I hear is Fredo is smart and he wants respect.

I believe they're also referring to conventional and nuclear hyper-sonic weapons which fly at speeds of about 3,600 MPH.  I'd deffer to the expertise of others but from what I understand there is no reliable defense against those types of offensive missiles.  

[ALF]

5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I believe they're also referring to conventional and nuclear hyper-sonic weapons which fly at speeds of about 3,600 MPH.  I'd deffer to the expertise of others but from what I understand there is no reliable defense against those types of offensive missiles.  

 

This would be a good question for Sherpa. Maybe the only deterrent would be the threat to respond with nuclear weapons.

[Coffeesforclosers]

13 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I believe they're also referring to conventional and nuclear hyper-sonic weapons which fly at speeds of about 3,600 MPH.  I'd deffer to the expertise of others but from what I understand there is no reliable defense against those types of offensive missiles.  

 

FWIW, I think that's exactly what they mean too. 

[wnyguy]

16 minutes ago, ALF said:

Biden to request $33B from Congress for Ukraine emergency supplemental funding

 

President Biden on Thursday is requesting $33 billion from Congress for additional security, military and humanitarian assistance for Ukraine and for U.S. efforts to strengthen European security in cooperation with NATO allies and partners.

 

The Biden administration is calling for $20.4 billion in additional security assistance for Ukraine, including $5 billion in additional drawdown authority, $6 billion for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, and $4 billion for the State Department’s Foreign Military Financing program.

 

"These resources will put urgently needed equipment into the hands of Ukraine’s military and police, as well as help NATO deter and defend against Russian aggression over the long-term," an administration official said Thursday.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-ukraine-security-assistance-request-33-billion-congress

I wonder how much of a kick back Biden will get ?

[Coffeesforclosers]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

Revisiting this exchange, let's not go crazy and think this shows some kind of critical fault line in Russian society based on the war.  But it's where Russian conservatism has jumped the shark from conservatism to fascism.  Old dude didn't get all those medals, ribbons and white hair delivering pizza.  Still, young guy in the slick network gettup jumps right down his throat because he might be telling the naked emperor that he's naked.  And the emperor can never be naked because that's the party line and you tow the party line.  

[sherpa]

11 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

This would be a good question for Sherpa. Maybe the only deterrent would be the threat to respond with nuclear weapons.

 

If Russia decides to employ nuclear weapons, the entire situation changes.

The only reason that strategy has ever been considered since WWII is when the threat to the very existence of a regime is threatened.

(See Israel. 1973 Yom Kippur war and the "Third Temple.")

 

Russian isn't under that threat, and escalating this when there are "outs," seems really irrational and perhaps regime suicidal.

 

I'm not sure what the use of a hypersonic missile would do for them. 

They don't need to.

They surely wouldn't need that to do what they want vis a vis Ukrainian defenses.

If they were to use one, if they really even have that capability, it would make sense to use it against a serious threat, like a US Navy ship, and I don't see them ready to take that step unless things got worse.

To me, it's just chest thumping, as is pandemic in their culture and gov controlled media.

 

Still, $33 billion request from the Biden Admin seems too high to pay.

This thing has got to wind down in the next month.

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

This thing has got to wind down in the next month.

 

How? 

[Niagara Bill]

4 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

If Russia decides to employ nuclear weapons, the entire situation changes.

The only reason that strategy has ever been considered since WWII is when the threat to the very existence of a regime is threatened.

(See Israel. 1973 Yom Kippur war and the "Third Temple.")

 

Russian isn't under that threat, and escalating this when there are "outs," seems really irrational and perhaps regime suicidal.

 

I'm not sure what the use of a hypersonic missile would do for them. 

They don't need to.

They surely wouldn't need that to do what they want vis a vis Ukrainian defenses.

If they were to use one, if they really even have that capability, it would make sense to use it against a serious threat, like a US Navy ship, and I don't see them ready to take that step unless things got worse.

To me, it's just chest thumping, as is pandemic in their culture and gov controlled media.

 

Still, $33 billion request from the Biden Admin seems too high to pay.

This thing has got to wind down in the next month.

IMHO this will not wind down. Ukraine with the additional military equipment will step up the fight, inside Russia. Ukraine knows that even if they surrender the war will continue. This is not just about land possession. Their choice will be to invite Russia deeper into conflict to force NATO to be more involved. For the Ukraines, 3 times in a century is too much. They are living the phrase, Live Free or Die.

[Tiberius]

Good to see Biden pushing a huge 33 billion in aid. Better get it through now before a possible check comes on aid early next year. 

[BillStime]

Think these 10 Putin apologists will spend July 4th in Moscow?
 

 

 

[Tenhigh]

On 4/27/2022 at 6:41 PM, Tiberius said:

Can't you find someone to tell that to who actually cares? 

 

Remember,you seem out,not the other way around. 

 

And please don't post a long winded bunch of bull on why I should care! 🤑

Why do you act this way Tibs?  You seem to be racing Billsy to the be the most insulting poster on the board.  

[TSOL]

33 billion huh? Might as well just make Ukraine the 51st state. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, TSOL said:

33 billion huh? Might as well just make Ukraine the 51st state. 

There are no spending limits given the primary US policy objective to weaken Russia through a proxy war strategy of fighting them down to the last Ukrainian.   

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, TSOL said:

33 billion huh? Might as well just make Ukraine the 51st state. 

 

So far as new states go...you could do worse...

 

Hopefully most of that gets paid with seized assets from Putin-friendly oligarchs.