Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Doc]

Hopefully his anesthesiologist slips up...

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

Some old lady in line at Wegmans just told me this. Wow. so it is true. They need to kill him now. Some decent person needs to do something here 

 

 

And truck tires. Some of my hardest--and best days--in military was breaking down truck tires and putting them in a safety cage to fill with air in case the blew apart. None ever did 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Of gees...

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

 

[BillStime]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

What could happen if Putin declares war on May 9? - CNN

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/05/03/putin-declaring-war-explainer-sot-romans-es-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn

 

 

 

[Ralonzo]

11 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

It should be every American’s privilege to send their kids to fight and die for the right of Ukrainian companies to have all the democracy they need to appoint the kids and pals of American political leaders to their boards and wire them millions of dollars. Just like the last n-1 wars. Who could possibly object to this noble goal? Screw you Cucker Tarlson.

[Tiberius]

 

16 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

It should be every American’s privilege to send their kids to fight and die for the right of Ukrainian companies to have all the democracy they need to appoint the kids and pals of American political leaders to their boards and wire them millions of dollars. Just like the last n-1 wars. Who could possibly object to this noble goal? Screw you Cucker Tarlson.

Yup, Biden better get all the aid through Congress now because the GOP controlled congress will be torn between doing the right thing and pleasing Trump/Putin 

[meazza]

4 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

It should be every American’s privilege to send their kids to fight and die for the right of Ukrainian companies to have all the democracy they need to appoint the kids and pals of American political leaders to their boards and wire them millions of dollars. Just like the last n-1 wars. Who could possibly object to this noble goal? Screw you Cucker Tarlson.

 

As far as I can tell, no one is pushing for direct American or NATO involvement.  One could argue that it will potentially lead to direct US involvement but as we have seen over the last month, Russia doesn't have the ability to take on any more fronts.

[Tiberius]

JUst speculation, but seems like Ukraine's use of drones and anti-drone success against Russia has given UK eyes in the sky to successfully direct their artillary and has suppressed RU ability to do same. That would be huge is true. 

oh boy. This guy must have attended Trump University 

 

 

[Tiberius]

VERY interesting thread. Opening the Black Sea and Boris ...well..Go Boris go! 

 

 

[Tiberius]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/03/russia-ukraine-electronic-warfare/

Ukraine has tapped into Russian communications, blocked its signals, blinded its surveillance, and captured some its most advanced EW systems, experts say. The United States and its NATO partners have provided crucial EW equipment and training. But American experts say it’s the Ukrainians themselves who adapted these high-tech weapons to protect their homeland.  

Ukraine’s success has been remarkable in part because of the widespread initial expectation among U.S. and NATO commanders that Russia would dominate the electromagnetic battlespace in this war. Russia had built systems that could, in theory, create an electronic bubble around its forces, effectively blinding adversaries. U.S. commanders feared that Ukrainian units would be isolated and unable to communicate in this electronic fog of war.

Kyiv rebuilt its capabilities after it suffered bitter setbacks during Russia’s 2014 and 2015 attacks on eastern Ukraine. Russian EW success back then was dazzling, and some senior Pentagon officials feared it would be repeated this year. But as Russian commanders prepared for the 2022 invasion, they made two blunders: They assumed that the Ukrainian military had not advanced significantly since 2015, and they ignored the impact of equipment and training provided by NATO.

[Ralonzo]

16 hours ago, meazza said:

As far as I can tell, no one is pushing for direct American or NATO involvement.

 

You must be using Google as a search engine. Try something non-Alphabet.

 

It's unfathomable that some obscure borscht-bathed backwater has been literally the most critical foreign actor in US politics since they overthr... I mean, helped to liberate it in 2014. What's the reason for that? Here's a hint: Zelensky is basically Sonny Bunz running the Bamboo Lounge for Pauly and the crew.

 

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

You must be using Google as a search engine. Try something non-Alphabet.

 

It's unfathomable that some obscure borscht-bathed backwater has been literally the most critical foreign actor in US politics since they overthr... I mean, helped to liberate it in 2014. What's the reason for that? Here's a hint: Zelensky is basically Sonny Bunz running the Bamboo Lounge for Pauly and the crew.

 

Why do you think Putin invaded? 

[Coffeesforclosers]

13 hours ago, Tiberius said:

VERY interesting thread. Opening the Black Sea and Boris ...well..Go Boris go! 

 

 

 

Now that is a real piece of work, assuming of course it's true and everything works out like that.

 

For everyone that isn't going to read Tibs tweet thread.

 

The UK is supplying very advanced anti ship missiles that can strike Russian warships at anchor in Sebastopol.  Since the Moskva was sunk, and the Turks closed off the Bosporus to warships, the remaining Russian vessels can't defend themselves from missiles.  Meaning they can no longer blockade the port of Odessa.  Meaning if NATO wanted to, they could escort Ukrainian grain shipments along coastal and west black sea routes.  This would provide huge amounts of food back to global supply chains, meaning drastic price relief for all of Africa, and huge revenues for Ukraine.  There's a few places where this could all go wrong, but it's a neat idea with a lot of upside for a lot of innocent people.

[meazza]

3 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

You must be using Google as a search engine. Try something non-Alphabet.

 

It's unfathomable that some obscure borscht-bathed backwater has been literally the most critical foreign actor in US politics since they overthr... I mean, helped to liberate it in 2014. What's the reason for that? Here's a hint: Zelensky is basically Sonny Bunz running the Bamboo Lounge for Pauly and the crew.

 

 

Honestly, tell us how you really feel.

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

You must be using Google as a search engine. Try something non-Alphabet.

 

It's unfathomable that some obscure borscht-bathed backwater has been literally the most critical foreign actor in US politics since they overthr... I mean, helped to liberate it in 2014. What's the reason for that? Here's a hint: Zelensky is basically Sonny Bunz running the Bamboo Lounge for Pauly and the crew.

 

You should ask Victoria Nuland over at the State department to explain.  She was on point with Ukraine under Obama and now Biden.  And although the media and government here force feed the public with the narrative of Ukraine as a fledgling democracy consistent with our ideals and customs in reality its been a system ruled by corruption and oligarchy control since the break-up of the Soviet Union. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You should ask Victoria Nuland over at the State department to explain.  She was on point with Ukraine under Obama and now Biden.  And although the media and government here force feed the public with the narrative of Ukraine as a fledgling democracy consistent with our ideals and customs in reality its been a system ruled by corruption and oligarchy control since the break-up of the Soviet Union. 

 

Ok, so what's your point though, given the current situation?

[Tiberius]

33 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You should ask Victoria Nuland over at the State department to explain.  She was on point with Ukraine under Obama and now Biden.  And although the media and government here force feed the public with the narrative of Ukraine as a fledgling democracy consistent with our ideals and customs in reality its been a system ruled by corruption and oligarchy control since the break-up of the Soviet Union. 

Yup, and until they threw out Paul Manafort and his gang of thieves they were not a true democracy. But since then they have been a pretty shining example of a democratic republic. Now where did Manafort go after Ukraine? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Ok, so what's your point though, given the current situation?

Well, the US administration is perfectly comfortable engaging in a proxy war sacrificing lots of Ukrainians for as long as necessary to yank Russia's chain.  And neo-con/neo-liberal war party member under-secretary of State Nuland, a former official in the Obama State department & foreign policy advisor to former VP Dick Chenny, is the architect and administrator over the effort. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[Coffeesforclosers]

43 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Well, the US administration is perfectly comfortable engaging in a proxy war sacrificing lots of Ukrainians for as long as necessary to yank Russia's chain.  And neo-con/neo-liberal war party member under-secretary of State Nuland, a former official in the Obama State department & foreign policy advisor to former VP Dick Chenny, is the architect and administrator over the effort. 

 

So the war itself is the real evil, and the US shouldn't do anything that prolongs the war, because it's just a sign of warmongers continuing influence of the US?

 

I'm assuming you're not American because not many people in my country refer to it as the "US-Administration".  Nothing to do with your argument, just an observation.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

The Russian Army Wasn't Designed for War and Putin's War in Ukraine Is Proving It

 

 

https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/05/the-russian-army-wasnt-designed-for-war-and-putins-war-in-ukraine-is-proving-it-n560026

 

 

 

 

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[BillStime]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

NBC news also reports US involvement in the sinking of the Moskva.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-intel-helped-ukraine-sink-russian-flagship-moskva-officials-say-rcna27559

 

Which I don't find at all surprising as I originally didn't believe the Ukrainian military had the ability and know-how to pull that off.  My guess was US Intel and military did everything but push the button.    

 

 

 

[OrangeBills]

Again, why on earth are we taking credit for any of this?  What's the purpose, what's the point? 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

29 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

Again, why on earth are we taking credit for any of this?  What's the purpose, what's the point? 

 

 

I’m sorry, we’re not taking questions. Please call back later. 

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

HEY, REMEMBER UKRAINE?

 

I know it’s not The Currrent Thing anymore, but here’s a roundup of what’s going on.

 

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-campaign-assessment-may-5

 

 

[BillStime]

 

[B-Man]

 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Putin's check? Yup 

[716er]

 

The genius Russians continue to be a tactical morons.

[Coffeesforclosers]

Lots of stuff floating around now, so take your pick what you want to believe.

 

It looks like the Russians are still stalled out on all their attacks intended to collapse or encircle Ukraine's position in the east.  Kreminna fell early but they haven't been able to push much past it or the nearby towns.  The attack south from Izyum was looking very dangerous for a week but has also stalled out, creating a long salient running north-south.  Russian and Ukrainian attacks around Kherson and elsewhere have traded ground without changing much.  The Ukrainians have made some gains around Mikolaiyiv.  That's good news, as Mikolaiyiv guards Odessa and is a springboard to attack Kherson.

 

Real gains though are being made by Ukraine in the north.  They've almost cleared the Russians out of tube artillery range of the city of Kharkiv. They're also pushing west from Kharkiv to threaten one of the trunk supply routes to Izyum.  Kharkiv contains one of Ukraine's most modern tank factories.  Who knows what kind of shape it's in, but they'll need that facility up and running and safe.

 

Finally, there's now reports of very heavy fighting quite close to Izyum, due east and due west of the city.  It's all heat mapping stuff, so it could be combat, or it could just be artillery. But if Izyum is isolated or even if it's taken, all Russian forces south of it are encircled. 

 

So in a nutshell, Russia is  still stalled for the time being, and can't stop Ukraine's counterattack around Kharkiv. The Kharkiv counterattack could develop into something very bad for the Russians, but who knows.  Something very, very bad for the Russians could be happening around Izyum, but the info isn't there to say one way or the other.

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

Those 155 mm howitzers we are sending look to be having a real impact on the field. I was watching this guy (Hertling) on CNN last night explain how Russia has to fire massed artillery at an area, our guns can hit targets with extreme precision and that looks like what is going on here. I'd guess drones as artillery spotters are also being used. 

 

 

[JDHillFan]

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Those 155 mm howitzers we are sending look to be having a real impact on the field. I was watching this guy (Hertling) on CNN last night explain how Russia has to fire massed artillery at an area, our guns can hit targets with extreme precision and that looks like what is going on here. I'd guess drones as artillery spotters are also being used. 

 

 

 

Good.  You've always got to be careful about clips like this though, as reassuring as they are.

 

I've got more than a feeling that Ukrainian losses are higher than they let on.  It's all anecdotal though.  Rolling Stone Reported on a Ukrainian Marine unit that's been in contact since Day 1. They've taken a real beating. Ukrainian Territorial Defense Units were thrown into the defense of Kyiv with little to no training.  Some Volunteers were simply handed gear and deployed.  Those units must have suffered terrible losses if they were attacked by Russia tank/mechanized units, or tried to do anything other than hold the places they were deployed. Luckily they had Russian incompetence and support from Ukraine's regular army units, that we now know are much better than anybody thought, but still.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers