BillStime Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Send @kelly2277 to help Biden figure this mess out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, BillStime said: Nobody is happy Putin is pulling this move. We’re pissed Putin sees how weak Biden is and pulling this move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 minute ago, aristocrat said: Nobody is happy Putin is pulling this move. We’re pissed Putin sees how weak Biden is and pulling this move. I don’t even understand what their gripe is?… They refuse to state what they want to be done here. They’re mad at those of us who don’t want any US troop involvement in Ukraine. They say, because of that, we are Putin fanboys. Am I to surmise all these neolibs want us to go to war with Russia? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 7 hours ago, reddogblitz said: The Domino Theory. This is what got us into Viet Nam. Better to fight them over there than over here. Come on, man. No, I'm not (is anyone?) advocating for a military intervention. But what we've seen is the classic formula for war - a war that, according to Putin himself, won't be limited to eastern Ukraine, or even the whole of Ukraine. And the classic formula is this: an aggressive regime coupled with ineffective deterrence. What negative consequences did Putin suffer from the taking of Crimea? (I'll wait while everyone looks that one up because I'm coming up with a big "None.") Putin may be a dictator, but he's a dictator propped up by a lot of corrupt oligarchs living in places like London and Miami and New York. We can make life very difficult for them, both financially and in other ways. If it doesn't happen now, I fully expect the Baltics to be next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 30 minutes ago, SCBills said: I don’t even understand what their gripe is?… They refuse to state what they want to be done here. They’re mad at those of us who don’t want any US troop involvement in Ukraine. They say, because of that, we are Putin fanboys. Am I to surmise all these neolibs want us to go to war with Russia? No one wants war… and no one in America should be parroting Putin’s talking points you fascist traitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 minute ago, BillStime said: No one wants war… and no one in America should be parroting Putin’s talking points you fascist traitor What Putin talking point have I recited? I don’t want US troop involvement. We can sanction them, and that’s all well and good - I’d be on board, but you can’t expect middle/lower income Americans to be cool when their energy costs skyrocket. All over a country that has zero significance to us outside the media convincing you that you MUST care about this. Like I said.. why not care about what’s happening in Ethiopia, or Rwanda, or Somalia? If anything, you should be happy we’re not obsessing over this, considering Putin took Crimea under Obama and is taking Donetsk/Luhansk (likely more) under Biden. This after Biden simped for Germany and Russia on Nordstream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Just now, SCBills said: What Putin talking point have I recited? I don’t want US troop involvement. We can sanction them, and that’s all well and good - I’d be on board, but you can’t expect middle/lower income Americans to be cool when their energy costs skyrocket. All over a country that has zero significance to us outside the media convincing you that you MUST care about this. Like I said.. why not care about what’s happening in Ethiopia, or Rwanda, or Somalia? If anything, you should be happy we’re not obsessing over this, considering Putin took Crimea under Obama and is taking Donetsk/Luhansk (likely more) under Biden. This after Biden simped for Germany and Russia on Nordstream. Why did Trump gut the GOP’s anti-Russia stance on Ukraine in 2016? What role did Manafort play on that change? Should we ask Mueller? What is at the root of this Russian love stemming from the cult for the past 5 years? What could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: No, I'm not (is anyone?) advocating for a military intervention. But what we've seen is the classic formula for war - a war that, according to Putin himself, won't be limited to eastern Ukraine, or even the whole of Ukraine. And the classic formula is this: an aggressive regime coupled with ineffective deterrence. What negative consequences did Putin suffer from the taking of Crimea? (I'll wait while everyone looks that one up because I'm coming up with a big "None.") Putin may be a dictator, but he's a dictator propped up by a lot of corrupt oligarchs living in places like London and Miami and New York. We can make life very difficult for them, both financially and in other ways. If it doesn't happen now, I fully expect the Baltics to be next. I'm glad to hear you are not advocating military intervention. I may be wrong, but it seems @Tiberius and @BillStime are pretty hip on the idea. You say there were no negative consequences Putin suffered from the taking of Crimea. I suppose. But what negative consequences is China getting for taking Hong Kong? Now they are going after Taiwaan? The only sanctions going on there are against us. Shouldn't we be doing something about that? If we do sanctions, gas prices will go up 50 cents a gallon according to Jen Psaki. Sounds more like sanctions against us. On top of that do you think Russia will not retaliate some how? Possibly could be large cyber attack. They're good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, BillStime said: So.....Trudeau probably admires him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I'm glad to hear you are not advocating military intervention. I may be wrong, but it seems @Tiberius and @BillStime are pretty hip on the idea. You say there were no negative consequences Putin suffered from the taking of Crimea. I suppose. But what negative consequences is China getting for taking Hong Kong? Now they are going after Taiwaan? The only sanctions going on there are against us. Shouldn't we be doing something about that? If we do sanctions, gas prices will go up 50 cents a gallon according to Jen Psaki. Sounds more like sanctions against us. On top of that do you think Russia will not retaliate some how? Possibly could be large cyber attack. They're good at it. Another one with absolutely pathetic reading comprehension skills 1 minute ago, Big Blitz said: So.....Trudeau probably admires him I can’t wait for Trudeau to take over some of the pathetic red states here in the US…. amirite? Idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, BillStime said: Another one with absolutely pathetic reading comprehension skills Enlighten me. Your posts talk about all the horrible thing Pooty Poot is doing and Elephant team members are cowtowing to Potty Poot. What do you propose we do about it short of military intervention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 44 minutes ago, BillStime said: Ahhh.....how cute... The same way Trudeau, Hunter Biden, the Democrat Party, John Cena, and Silicon Valley look at Xi. All you losers gtfo with your fake anger at Putin and stone cold silence about the full capitulation of the Democrat party to China - all those mentioned above take orders from them That's far worse then anything you want to say about Russia....that seems to do these things when those same Ds are in power. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 That John Cena video looks like a hostage video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 Russia now demanding areas occupied by Ukrainian forces...their own territory. Naked imperialism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Russia now demanding areas occupied by Ukrainian forces...their own territory. Naked imperialism Another Biden Triumph. It most surprising after all the money he and his family made off of them that he let this happen so easily. I guess it’s on them for not buying any of hunters blow art.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 8 hours ago, SCBills said: I don’t even understand what their gripe is?… They refuse to state what they want to be done here. They’re mad at those of us who don’t want any US troop involvement in Ukraine. They say, because of that, we are Putin fanboys. Am I to surmise all these neolibs want us to go to war with Russia? nothing is ever Joe’s fault 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Another Biden Triumph. It most surprising after all the money he and his family made off of them that he let this happen so easily. I guess it’s on them for not buying any of hunters blow art.. 6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Another Biden Triumph. It most surprising after all the money he and his family made off of them that he let this happen so easily. I guess it’s on them for not buying any of hunters blow art.. We need a tougher response you think? American air power needs to be committed? Is that what you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Why care about Ukraine and the Budapest Memorandum https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/ Never forget Ukraine had nukes. But we didn't want that so we made them get rid of the 3rd largest stockpile in the world. In exchange we offered military "assistance" in the event Russia invaded them. Tho vague, don't doubt for one second if it gets ugly, if Biden needs a distraction, if media drums for war increase, we're going in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 6 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I'm glad to hear you are not advocating military intervention. I may be wrong, but it seems @Tiberius and @BillStime are pretty hip on the idea. You say there were no negative consequences Putin suffered from the taking of Crimea. I suppose. But what negative consequences is China getting for taking Hong Kong? Now they are going after Taiwaan? The only sanctions going on there are against us. Shouldn't we be doing something about that? If we do sanctions, gas prices will go up 50 cents a gallon according to Jen Psaki. Sounds more like sanctions against us. On top of that do you think Russia will not retaliate some how? Possibly could be large cyber attack. They're good at it. Both China and Russia are problems for the US establishment but its one thing at a time here. After sleeping on it overnight I've concluded the Biden administration achieved through this situation, while not the best-case full Russian attack scenario, exactly what they were looking for in Ukraine. Anyone suggesting they were "tying to stop a war" isn't paying attention to the big picture. The objective was to provoke a military response from Russia. Stopping a war, resulting in peace and some negotiated settlement would have allowed Russian plans for economic integration with Europe to continue uninterrupted. And whether it's 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, or even 10 years sooner or later American interests would find themselves excluded from the head table for setting European policy. It seems pretty clear certain countries, Germany and France in particular, want the US out of their backyard. But after yesterday taking that stance and advocating for integration and cooperation with Russia might be politically dangerous. At least for a while until this all blows over. And now Putin's plans are on pause and its not clear exactly where things go from here with sanctions and other possible consequences. That's priority one for the US establishment, keep control of European policy. Priority number 2, contain Russian interests. Good here on both counts. For most intents and purposes these provinces were already under Russian control and recognizing their independence (did they even declare their independence or did I miss that?) is just a formality. But all the support and weaponry supplied by the US served its purpose. It emboldened anti-Russian elements inside Ukraine to use those weapons to disrupt the balance of power that kept relative peace in the region. With these new resources it would have been a matter of time before the two provinces were brought under the control of Kiev. So Putin was forced into the choice of losing control of these regions or directly intervening. So he pulled the trigger on the independence recognition ploy which he'll argue provides pretext for sending forces into Eastern Ukraine. To keep people "safe". Expect lots of rhetoric out of Kiev but not much military action over time. I'm sure they're completely cognizant they traded these two republics for US support and assistance. How sanctions hurt US consumers is unclear but they will hurt Europeans more. US financial markets while down don't appear too concerned by looking at the futures action. Down but not down dramatically, gold up over night but giving up those gains and into the red by about 10 bucks. Oil is the market reacting badly with crude prices up around $3.40 as I write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Why care about Ukraine and the Budapest Memorandum https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/ Never forget Ukraine had nukes. But we didn't want that so we made them get rid of the 3rd largest stockpile in the world. In exchange we offered military "assistance" in the event Russia invaded them. Tho vague, don't doubt for one second if it gets ugly, if Biden needs a distraction, if media drums for war increase, we're going in. That is a good point. But let’s remember that Russia basically took over the country after that politically. They were very unstable. The “problem” now for Putin is that Ukraine was turning into a successful country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, Tiberius said: We need a tougher response you think? American air power needs to be committed? Is that what you want? Never should have gotten this far. Biden is a geopolitical doormat. Taiwan is next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Never should have gotten this far. Biden is a geopolitical doormat. Taiwan is next. So do nothing now and hope it helps the GOP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Never should have gotten this far. Biden is a geopolitical doormat. Taiwan is next. This is what 4 years of Isolationism gets you. You can’t retreat from the entire world and expect no one else to make a move and fill that void. Edited February 22, 2022 by Governor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, Governor said: This is what 4 years of Isolationism gets you. Now Joe has to fix it. Avoiding new foreign wars is not isolationism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Avoiding new foreign wars is not isolationism. At all costs? Don’t fight ever? Don’t ever stand up to bullies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, Governor said: This is what 4 years of Isolationism gets you. You can’t retreat from the entire world and expect no one else to make a move and fill that void. So there it is…it’s Trump’s fault. Figures! Well at least it’s not still Bush’s fault….or wait, maybe it still is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: At all costs? Don’t fight ever? Don’t ever stand up to bullies? So you think we should without giving it any thought fight all wars regardless of consequences or costs? Edited February 22, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: At all costs? Don’t fight ever? Don’t ever stand up to bullies? Do you feel the the same about Taiwan? If china invaded them, should we go to war with china? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So you think we should without giving it any thought fight all wars regardless of consequences or costs? That’s a really stupid question, completely off point and divorced from reality. Just now, Westside said: Do you feel the the same about Taiwan? If china invaded them, should we go to war with china? Taiwan should and must be defended. Biden did send a carrier battle group through the South China Sea and China went ballistic. I guess you did not know that https://thehill.com/policy/defense/navy/591015-us-aircraft-carriers-enter-south-china-sea-amid-tensions-between-taiwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: So there it is…it’s Trump’s fault. Figures! Well at least it’s not still Bush’s fault….or wait, maybe it still is. Obama put a bunch of resources into Ukraine on his way out the door because he knew Trump was going to let Putin do whatever he wanted. Trump then quickly removed those resources and here we are. It wasn’t that long ago. People remember. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Governor said: Obama put a bunch of resources into Ukraine on his way out the door because he knew Trump was going to let Putin do whatever he wanted. Trump then quickly removed those resources and here we are. It wasn’t that long ago. People remember. Obama must have put those ‘resources’ in the drawer right next to the PPE he left for Trump. No wonder the world couldn’t find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Obama must have put those ‘resources’ in the drawer right next to the PPE he left for Trump. No wonder the world couldn’t find them. Do you know the story behind Trump and the weapons that were purchased by our government for Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Do you know the story behind Trump and the weapons that were purchased by our government for Ukraine? If I remember correctly, wasn't Crimea annexed under Obama's watch? What excuse do you have consistent with your standing up to bullies theory? 15 minutes ago, Tiberius said: That’s a really stupid question, completely off point and divorced from reality. I responded appropriately to your dumb question with a comparable answer. Edited February 22, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Do you know the story behind Trump and the weapons that were purchased by our government for Ukraine? Let me see if I understand…you wanted US taxpayers and Defense Contractors to sell even MORE weapons of war to yet another foreign country? Fabulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Let me see if I understand…you wanted US taxpayers and Defense Contractors to sell even MORE weapons of war to yet another foreign country? Fabulous. Do you know? What I asked? And yes, sell nations under threat of aggression weapons to defend themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Do you know? What I asked? And yes, sell nations under threat of aggression weapons to defend themselves. And you believe if we had just sold MORE weapons to Ukraine that all of this nonsense could’ve been avoided? That’s your take? Really? I’m done for now. Gotta get ready for work so I can pay those taxes, so we can borrow more money from China today to pay for weapons in Ukraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 51 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So do nothing now and hope it helps the GOP? This has nothing to do with helping GOP and everything to do with Biden being a total failure. The irony is how he enriched his own family off of the regime he has since abandoned. As for now? No I don’t want this incompetent administration spending any American lives, they aren’t bright enough to make it matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: This has nothing to do with helping GOP and everything to do with Biden being a total failure. The irony is how he enriched his own family off of the regime he has since abandoned. As for now? No I don’t want this incompetent administration spending any American lives, they aren’t bright enough to make it matter. So, 40 million people about to be conqured and enslaved by Putin is simply Biden's fault and that's it. Ya, you don't want to sell these people away for political gain. Disgusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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