Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[BillsFanNC]

We're definitely saving democracy in Ukraine, their media behaves just like ours.

 

 

[BillStime]

👆🤡 - Ah yes - Moscow Chay of course works for Russian state media outlet - RT.

 

And look who recently interviewed Moscow Chay - Tara Reade - lmao - you can't make this up.

 

 

[aristocrat]

https://x.com/schizointel/status/1704958891220434964?s=46&t=WfwBbfFkRiZZWCMxTdpkOw
 

war crime? 

[Tiberius]

VLADIMIR Putin's Black Sea fleet headquarters was blitzed by a fiery Ukrainian Storm Shadow missile attack today.

Footage shows black smoke billowing from the burning and partially collapsed building in the Russian-held Crimean city of Sevastopol after Kyiv's latest assault on the peninsula.

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/9153595/explosions-putin-black-sea-crimea/

[Tommy Callahan]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

VLADIMIR Putin's Black Sea fleet headquarters was blitzed by a fiery Ukrainian Storm Shadow missile attack today.

Footage shows black smoke billowing from the burning and partially collapsed building in the Russian-held Crimean city of Sevastopol after Kyiv's latest assault on the peninsula.

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/9153595/explosions-putin-black-sea-crimea/

Brit Storm Shadow missile

 

Then we can give them some long-range missiles as well.

 

and just hope Putin doesn't rain down supersonics on Kiev, again.

 

"If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle"

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Chris farley

[Tiberius]

Biden quietly smashing up Putin's fascist military. No bluster, no lies, no conspiracy garbage, just results 

 Bye bye 

 

President Joe Biden has told his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, that the United States will provide a small number of long-range missiles to aid the war with Russia, three U.S. officials and a congressional official familiar with the discussions told NBC News on Friday.

The officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly, did not say when the missiles would be delivered or when a public announcement would be made.

For months, Ukraine has asked for the Army Tactical Missile System, known as ATACMS, which would give Kyiv the ability to strike targets from as far away as about 180 miles, hitting supply lines, railways, and command and control locations behind the Russian front lines.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-atacms-biden-zelenskyy-long-range-missile-rcna116876

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Biden quietly smashing up Putin's fascist military. No bluster, no lies, no conspiracy garbage, just results 

 Bye bye 

 

President Joe Biden has told his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, that the United States will provide a small number of long-range missiles to aid the war with Russia, three U.S. officials and a congressional official familiar with the discussions told NBC News on Friday.

The officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly, did not say when the missiles would be delivered or when a public announcement would be made.

For months, Ukraine has asked for the Army Tactical Missile System, known as ATACMS, which would give Kyiv the ability to strike targets from as far away as about 180 miles, hitting supply lines, railways, and command and control locations behind the Russian front lines.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-atacms-biden-zelenskyy-long-range-missile-rcna116876

Heck yeah. escalation is awesome.

 

for your stocks. not so much the people of Ukraine

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

The unhappy fascists LOL 

 

You ain't getting a dictatorship here. 

[ChiGoose]

US will send Ukraine ATACMS long-range missiles, Biden tells Zelenskiy: NBC

 

Good news!

[Tommy Callahan]

14 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

US will send Ukraine ATACMS long-range missiles, Biden tells Zelenskiy: NBC

 

Good news!

And then

[Doc]

Great.  We (poorly) ended one forever war just to fund another.

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

Rand Paul Issues Stark Warning To Biden, Senate, & House About Ukraine Funding'

 

Rand Paul: "I rise to put the leadership of the house, the senate, and the POTUS on notice. I will not consent to any expedited passage of any spending bill that provides any more American aid to Ukraine. It's as if no one has noticed that we have no extra money to send to Ukraine. Our deficit this year will exceed 1.5 trillion dollars borrowing money from China to send it to Ukraine, makes no sense."

 

"Ukraine is one of the most CORRUPT countries on the planet..." Watch

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Rand Paul Issues Stark Warning To Biden, Senate, & House About Ukraine Funding'

 

Rand Paul: "I rise to put the leadership of the house, the senate, and the POTUS on notice. I will not consent to any expedited passage of any spending bill that provides any more American aid to Ukraine. It's as if no one has noticed that we have no extra money to send to Ukraine. Our deficit this year will exceed 1.5 trillion dollars borrowing money from China to send it to Ukraine, makes no sense."

 

"Ukraine is one of the most CORRUPT countries on the planet..." Watch

 

 

why isn’t anyone asking why we haven’t forced Russia and Ukraine to the table to end this? 
 

It’s clear we are funding this proxy war, marching thousands of another countries people to die by throwing money at them. 
 

if you zoom out and look at it, it’s so ***** twisted

[Tiberius]

 

[Tommy Callahan]

10 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why isn’t anyone asking why we haven’t forced Russia and Ukraine to the table to end this? 
 

It’s clear we are funding this proxy war, marching thousands of another countries people to die by throwing money at them. 
 

if you zoom out and look at it, it’s so ***** twisted

The few times there was any third party talk of negotiations.  The media ignores it. 

 

The goal should always be peace.  The war mongers want more carnage though. 

 

While they drink coffee and eat a warm breakfast this morning. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Chris farley

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

I'm left wondering how Gary states Russians didn't care about Crimea before 2014 knowing that Crimea was part of Russia until Soviet Premier Kruschev, an ethnic Ukranian, issued a decree transfering it to Ukraine?

Edited September 24, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[B-Man]

11 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why isn’t anyone asking why we haven’t forced Russia and Ukraine to the table to end this? 
 

It’s clear we are funding this proxy war, marching thousands of another countries people to die by throwing money at them. 
 

if you zoom out and look at it, it’s so ***** twisted

 

37 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

The few times there was any third party talk of negotiations.  The media ignores it. 

 

The goal should always be peace.  The war mongers want more carnage though. 

 

While they drink coffee and eat a warm breakfast this morning. 

 

 

 

 

 

The Economist says we must prepare for a forever war in Ukraine

 

The latest edition of The Economist outlines what the next phase of the Ukraine war will look like. So here’s what you need to know about the future of the conflict — straight from the mouth of the Western agenda-setters themselves.

 

The Economist starts out by finally acknowledging that the counteroffensive — which it has been hyping for months — has been a catastrophic failure: “Ukraine has liberated less than 0.25% of the territory that Russia occupied in June. The 1,000km front line has barely shifted”.

 

This is what 40,000 Ukrainians died for (official estimate, so probably more). And what’s worse, this was entirely predictable ― and indeed had been predicted. Absolutely unconscionable.

 

However, The Economist immediately goes on to say that: “Asking for a ceasefire or peace talks is pointless. Vladimir Putin shows no sign of wanting to negotiate and, even if he did, could not be trusted to stick to a deal. ... [A]ny ceasefire would simply be a pause to re-arm and get ready to attack again. If Ukrainians stop fighting, they could lose their country”.

 

That’s interesting because it is Russia that, in the months and weeks leading up to the invasion, repeatedly looked for a diplomatic solution to avoid war, only to be systematically dismissed by the West (“Putin’s continuing commitment to a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis was ... evident”, writes historian Geoffrey Roberts in a study for the Journal of Military and Strategic Studies: jmss.org/article/view/7...) and it is Russia that, in the weeks following the invasion, engaged in several diplomatic initiatives that were systematically sabotaged by the West. As for using the ceasefire as a ploy to re-arm, well that’s exactly what Ukraine and the West have admitted to have used the Minsk agreements to do (unherd.com/thepost/were…) — so this seems like a classic case of projection at best.

 

That said, it is true that reaching an agreement now is harder because Washington’s derailment of peace talks early in the war have allowed Russia to gain a tactical advantage which now makes a negotiated settlement much more difficult to achieve. On top of the fact that Russia has many more reasons for not trusting the West than vice versa. But that’s no excuse for the West to not even consider sitting down at the negotiating table, of course.

 

So if there is no realistic basis to believe that Ukraine has the capacity to attain its stated strategic objective of reclaiming all (or any, at this point) Russian-controlled territories, as even The Economist admits, but peace (or even a ceasefire) is not an option — then what options are left?

 

 

https://twitter.com/battleforeurope/status/1705206986290147533

 

 

 

 

Is this the world we want to live in?

 

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

Been a lot of chatter about this in last 24 hrs

 

 

40 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm left wondering how Gary states Russians didn't care about Crimea before 2014 knowing that Crimea was part of Russia until Soviet Premier Kruschev, an ethnic Ukranian, issued a decree transfering it to Ukraine?

You mean before Russia illegally annexed it ( temporarily) in 2014? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

39 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Been a lot of chatter about this in last 24 hrs

 

 

You mean before Russia illegally annexed it ( temporarily) in 2014? 

Objectively in times of war I don't think anyone is ever too concerned about the legal status of the conflict and reality is they're not going to be expelled by what's left of the Ukranian military absent direct NATO/US involvement in combat operations.  And that's not likely. 

That's just how it looks and all the wishful thinking and cheerleading is not going to supply what is needed to remove the occupiers which is effective combat soldiers.  

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Just now, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Biden's war? Blame the American president for a war begun, continued and made extra dirty by the war mongering dictator Putin

 

We know who's side you are on 

 

 

[B-Man]

Just now, Tiberius said:

 

Biden's war? Blame the American president for a war begun, continued and made extra dirty by the war mongering dictator Putin

 

 

 

Tibs, I specifically put the second tweet because of you,

 

and you passed right over it.

 

 

Here, I will post it again.

 

 

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Tibs, I specifically put the second tweet because of you,

 

and you passed right over it.

 

 

Here, I will post it again.

 

 

Yes, we are preserving a fellow democarcy, you are defending a murderous dictator 

 

Freedom vs slavery, you choose slavery. Shame on you 

[ChiGoose]

12 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why isn’t anyone asking why we haven’t forced Russia and Ukraine to the table to end this? 
 

It’s clear we are funding this proxy war, marching thousands of another countries people to die by throwing money at them. 
 

if you zoom out and look at it, it’s so ***** twisted

Because there isn’t enough leverage to end the war. 
 

Russia has a history of signing peace deals and ceasefires, only to violate them the second they want to. 
 

The only way for real peace in Ukraine is for Russia to know equivocally that they cannot attack again. Any peace deal they sign today won’t prevent them from just using it to regroup and attack again when convenient (something they do all of the time).

 

To get to a lasting peace, one side has to utterly dominate the other. Either Russia wipes Ukraine off the map and genocides the population and culture, or Ukraine crushes the Russian army, pushing them back to the 1992 borders, and establishing that they are not to be messed with. 

[aristocrat]

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1706010501333868756?s=46&t=WfwBbfFkRiZZWCMxTdpkOw
 

not even hiding they support nazis now lol

[L Ron Burgundy]

9 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm left wondering how Gary states Russians didn't care about Crimea before 2014 knowing that Crimea was part of Russia until Soviet Premier Kruschev, an ethnic Ukranian, issued a decree transfering it to Ukraine?

And?  Borders in just of all Europe have gone back-and-forth through history.   It being part of Russia in the past doesn't give them carte Blanche to take it back.  Russia is f'd.  Their demographics are terrible and they're sending people they can't afford to lose to die for land that only Putin and his buddies care about.   

[Thurmal34]

MAGA will ALWAYS be known as pro Putin. 
 

the die has been cast. autocracy here and autocracy there!

Oh and for the #######s touting the Putin company line about “Ukrainian nazis”, where are your attacks on our space program led by SS colonel Werner Von Braun?

 

shut the FUNK up

 

hypocrites

[Joe Ferguson forever]

11 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never liked Bill(y) Kristol.  always respected him...

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Thurmal34 said:

MAGA will ALWAYS be known as pro Putin. 
 

the die has been cast. autocracy here and autocracy there!

Oh and for the #######s touting the Putin company line about “Ukrainian nazis”, where are your attacks on our space program led by SS colonel Werner Von Braun?

 

shut the FUNK up

 

hypocrites

The President is Jewish.   How does that square with all those Nazis lol?  It makes zero sense.  Are there some?   Sure.  Not an unusual amount though. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

5 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

The President is Jewish.   How does that square with all those Nazis lol?  It makes zero sense.  Are there some?   Sure.  Not an unusual amount though. 

Whether it makes sense or not to you doesn't negate the fact battalions such as the Azov Militia are self-identifying Nazi's, generally display Nazi tattoos and symbolism, and along with this Ukraine has a documented history of WW2 collaboration with Hitler's SS.  

[ChiGoose]

45 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

Whether it makes sense or not to you doesn't negate the fact battalions such as the Azov Militia are self-identifying Nazi's, generally display Nazi tattoos and symbolism, and along with this Ukraine has a documented history of WW2 collaboration with Hitler's SS.  

Man, if you’re upset about a Ukrainian regiment that used to be white supremacist before being integrated and reconstituted, you’re gonna be really upset when you find out about the Russians. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

23 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Man, if you’re upset about a Ukrainian regiment that used to be white supremacist before being integrated and reconstituted, you’re gonna be really upset when you find out about the Russians. 

We can talk about the many transgressions and atrocities of the Russians if that's desired but that's a different conversation.  Nazi militias such as Azov were prominent in last year's initial combat against the Russian invasion, and in Donbas between 2014 and 2022.  Regardless of their politics they were effective fighters but many were killed or captured and their numbers have significantly dropped. 

 

The "de-radicalized" narrative is pure propaganda specifically targeting American public support efforts.  How exactly they took the Nazi out of the Nazi's by "integrating" them into the Army as the story suggests isn't quite clear.  Maybe good old fashioned American neo-liberal ideology and social justice training with the right mix of identity politics did the trick? 

[ChiGoose]

14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

How exactly they took the Nazi out of the Nazi's by "integrating" them into the Army as the story suggests isn't quite clear.  

Literally from the article:

 

”The Ukrainian army in late 2014 formally integrated the Azov Regiment. Many of Ukraine’s foreign allies, including the United States, objected to the integration. But the deradicalization process already was underway.

 

For starters, Biletsky was gone—off campaigning for the parliamentary seat he would hold until 2019. What’s more, the Ukrainian general staff in mid-2015 pulled the Azov Regiment from the front line for restructuring and retraining.

 

Massive manpower turnover alone significantly diluted the regiment’s ideology. By the time it returned to the front line in early 2019, the Azov Regiment probably was unrecognizable to its original members. It likely was even less recognizable three years later this February, when Russia widened its war on Ukraine.

 

“The Azov Regiment has been repeatedly reconstituted,” wrote Alasdair McCallum, a researcher at Monash University in Australia. “Its extremist early leaders such as the odious Andriy Biletsky are long gone, and, more recently, its fearsome, pseudo-pagan regimental emblem has been abandoned.”

 

By the time the Azov Regiment began spinning off successor units, the ideological poison mostly was gone.”

 

Removing the ideology from a unit by removing the people with the ideology and training people to be regular soldiers seems pretty straightforward. 
 

But I get that you can’t let facts get in the way of your feelings. Especially if it requires actually reading. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by ChiGoose

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Which country is more important. . . . . . . . . . . . . . The U.S.  or Ukraine  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Pentagon will exempt its Ukraine operations from a potential shutdown if lawmakers can't agree on a deal to fund the government by the end of the month, allowing key training and other activities in support of Kyiv's forces to move ahead uninterrupted, according to a Defense Department spokesperson.4 days ago

 

Pentagon exempts Ukraine operations from potential ... - Politico

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/21/pentagon-exempts-ukraine-operations-from-shutdown-00117482

 

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Which country is more important. . . . . . . . . . . . . . The U.S.  or Ukraine  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Pentagon will exempt its Ukraine operations from a potential shutdown if lawmakers can't agree on a deal to fund the government by the end of the month, allowing key training and other activities in support of Kyiv's forces to move ahead uninterrupted, according to a Defense Department spokesperson.4 days ago

 

Pentagon exempts Ukraine operations from potential ... - Politico

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/21/pentagon-exempts-ukraine-operations-from-shutdown-00117482

 

 

 

.

Nice! 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

Literally from the article:

 

”The Ukrainian army in late 2014 formally integrated the Azov Regiment. Many of Ukraine’s foreign allies, including the United States, objected to the integration. But the deradicalization process already was underway.

 

For starters, Biletsky was gone—off campaigning for the parliamentary seat he would hold until 2019. What’s more, the Ukrainian general staff in mid-2015 pulled the Azov Regiment from the front line for restructuring and retraining.

 

Massive manpower turnover alone significantly diluted the regiment’s ideology. By the time it returned to the front line in early 2019, the Azov Regiment probably was unrecognizable to its original members. It likely was even less recognizable three years later this February, when Russia widened its war on Ukraine.

 

“The Azov Regiment has been repeatedly reconstituted,” wrote Alasdair McCallum, a researcher at Monash University in Australia. “Its extremist early leaders such as the odious Andriy Biletsky are long gone, and, more recently, its fearsome, pseudo-pagan regimental emblem has been abandoned.”

 

By the time the Azov Regiment began spinning off successor units, the ideological poison mostly was gone.”

 

Removing the ideology from a unit by removing the people with the ideology and training people to be regular soldiers seems pretty straightforward. 
 

But I get that you can’t let facts get in the way of your feelings. Especially if it requires actually reading. 

 You're just a sucker that believes the story the media is selling.

[L Ron Burgundy]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

 You're just a sucker that believes the story the media is selling.

You're just a suckered that thinks everything is a conspiracy.

[ChiGoose]

4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 You're just a sucker that believes the story the media is selling.

Nah, I just require actual evidence before believing a thing. 
 

Meanwhile, you’re falling for obvious Russian propogqnda because it fits your agenda. 
 

Feelings Over Facts: the motto of the right. 

[Tommy Callahan]

14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 You're just a sucker that believes the story the media is selling.

They parrot it 100 and attack critical and organic thought with a vengeance