Greg Cosell on the Bills Offense

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I think this video speaks directly to what a number of people are saying in several different threads

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/greg-cosell-josh-allen-will-play-better

 

Cosell:

"Every time I watch the Bills offense, it seems that my final notes involve two things.  Number one, I say, they don't really have a viable run game, either in terms of volume or production.  And number two, I always type that I think their offensive line is not one of the better OLs in the league in terms of pass protection"

"I've always believed that any time you have a weakness, a flaw, an inconsistancy, whatever you want to call it...it can come up and bite you in any given game."

"Then I'll add one more point.  I love Josh Allen as a player.  I think he's on his way to being one of the best QBs in the league.  But it is very very difficult, every week, no matter how good your QB is, to pretty much say, even if you don't say it in so many words 'you have to be great every week or we don't have a chance to win'.  That's a tough way to play." 

"They asked him to drop back more than 50 times in a game that was close. .....it's one thing if you're down 20 to nothing early in the 2nd quarter, but this was a normal game in terms of closeness......

.....I know people who know coaches very well, so I know for a fact that he's a very accountable young man, and he took full credit for the fact that he played poorly and he's got to play better, and he will play better"

"I think the run game is a patience issue.  If you're going to run the ball, you're going to have plays that gain 1, that gain 2, that lose 2.  I think teams that really believe in the run game, don't give up on it if that happens.  And we know the Bills are not one of those teams."

Re Breida: "Outside zone is his baby, we saw that in San Francisco.  And the Bills run outside zone, so they don't have to change anything if they play Matt Breida". 

 

Key Points:

-The Bills have to commit to trying to run the football.  Can't just run a couple times, lose yards, and say "oh that didn't work"

-Put Josh under center for outside zone runs and to get the DL moving laterally, that helps the OL. 

-You also get the play action boot pass game, which you don't get with the same efficiency from the shotgun

 

(my counterpoint is that I think sometimes our OL is so poor that putting Josh under center would just put the DL in his lap; keeping him in shotgun is designed to let him see and avoid)

 

 

[Sharky7337]

One of the other problems with our run game is everyone knows when we are gonna run it. We as fans know it. The other team knows it.

 

We are too predictable.

 

We need to be better about disguising it to a degree. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Sharky7337

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

4 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

One of the other problems with our run game is everyone knows when we are gonna run it. We as fans know it. The other team knows it.

 

We need to be better about disguising it to a degree. 

Or actually fix it so we can run even when they know we are going to run. Like block people and play design and pick a RB and stop rotating guys in every other drive.

[Governor]

Well, we need a spark to carry us the rest of the way and that’s gotta be at the RB position or Knox becoming unstoppable, or both.

 

The players on the field over the last 2 weeks won’t/can’t get us where we need to be to make a serious deep run.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Governor

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think this video speaks directly to what a number of people are saying in several different threads

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/greg-cosell-josh-allen-will-play-better

 

Cosell:

"Every time I watch the Bills offense, it seems that my final notes involve two things.  Number one, I say, they don't really have a viable run game, either in terms of volume or production.  And number two, I always type that I think their offensive line is not one of the better OLs in the league in terms of pass protection"

"I've always believed that any time you have a weakness, a flaw, an inconsistancy, whatever you want to call it...it can come up and bite you in any given game."

"Then I'll add one more point.  I love Josh Allen as a player.  I think he's on his way to being one of the best QBs in the league.  But it is very very difficult, every week, no matter how good your QB is, to pretty much say, even if you don't say it in so many words 'you have to be great every week or we don't have a chance to win'.  That's a tough way to play." 

"They asked him to drop back more than 50 times in a game that was close. .....it's one thing if you're down 20 to nothing early in the 2nd quarter, but this was a normal game in terms of closeness......

.....I know people who know coaches very well, so I know for a fact that he's a very accountable young man, and he took full credit for the fact that he played poorly and he's got to play better, and he will play better"

"I think the run game is a patience issue.  If you're going to run the ball, you're going to have plays that gain 1, that gain 2, that lose 2.  I think teams that really believe in the run game, don't give up on it if that happens.  And we know the Bills are not one of those teams."

Re Breida: "Outside zone is his baby, we saw that in San Francisco.  And the Bills run outside zone, so they don't have to change anything if they play Matt Breida". 

 

Key Points:

-The Bills have to commit to trying to run the football.  Can't just run a couple times, lose yards, and say "oh that didn't work"

-Put Josh under center for outside zone runs and to get the DL moving laterally, that helps the OL. 

-You also get the play action boot pass game, which you don't get with the same efficiency from the shotgun

 

(my counterpoint is that I think sometimes our OL is so poor that putting Josh under center would just put the DL in his lap; keeping him in shotgun is designed to let him see and avoid)

 

 

This seems to be consensus from just about everyone.  Hopefully they can implement these changes.  
 

Cosell’s comments on Josh are interesting.  He was not a fan of Josh as a QB prospect and during his first few seasons 

[fasteddie]

It would also help if we had receivers who knew how to block. Half of the time, we have either Sanders or McKittrick trying to get in the way rather than really blocking. What kills me is that they have Davis on one side of the field and they run the other way. There is no rhyme nor reason to the run offense. 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think this video speaks directly to what a number of people are saying in several different threads

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/greg-cosell-josh-allen-will-play-better

 

Cosell:

"Every time I watch the Bills offense, it seems that my final notes involve two things.  Number one, I say, they don't really have a viable run game, either in terms of volume or production.  And number two, I always type that I think their offensive line is not one of the better OLs in the league in terms of pass protection"

"I've always believed that any time you have a weakness, a flaw, an inconsistancy, whatever you want to call it...it can come up and bite you in any given game."

"Then I'll add one more point.  I love Josh Allen as a player.  I think he's on his way to being one of the best QBs in the league.  But it is very very difficult, every week, no matter how good your QB is, to pretty much say, even if you don't say it in so many words 'you have to be great every week or we don't have a chance to win'.  That's a tough way to play." 

"They asked him to drop back more than 50 times in a game that was close. .....it's one thing if you're down 20 to nothing early in the 2nd quarter, but this was a normal game in terms of closeness......

.....I know people who know coaches very well, so I know for a fact that he's a very accountable young man, and he took full credit for the fact that he played poorly and he's got to play better, and he will play better"

"I think the run game is a patience issue.  If you're going to run the ball, you're going to have plays that gain 1, that gain 2, that lose 2.  I think teams that really believe in the run game, don't give up on it if that happens.  And we know the Bills are not one of those teams."

Re Breida: "Outside zone is his baby, we saw that in San Francisco.  And the Bills run outside zone, so they don't have to change anything if they play Matt Breida". 

 

Key Points:

-The Bills have to commit to trying to run the football.  Can't just run a couple times, lose yards, and say "oh that didn't work"

-Put Josh under center for outside zone runs and to get the DL moving laterally, that helps the OL. 

-You also get the play action boot pass game, which you don't get with the same efficiency from the shotgun

 

(my counterpoint is that I think sometimes our OL is so poor that putting Josh under center would just put the DL in his lap; keeping him in shotgun is designed to let him see and avoid)

 

 

Shotgun might not be enough, maybe he should be at punter depth. 

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Or actually fix it so we can run even when they know we are going to run. Like block people and play design and pick a RB and stop rotating guys in every other drive.

A run game that works by disguise isn't a run game at all. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Seems like everybody’s jumping on the pile. Here’s to Daboll shoving it up all the armchair expert’s asses tomorrow.  4 wideouts and Knox the whole game.  

[ALLEN1QB]

Running the football is overrated when you have a QB like JA attack the defense on every down!!! Make them adjust to us and try to keep up with an inferior QB. Let it rip Josh!!

[LABILLBACKER]

Absolutely no argument here. I think we've all known this problem from last year. Now it's worse and magnified. Our RB's are garbage but our OL are even worse. And only Josh's ridiculous athleticism has covered up this issue.  Can't ignore it anymore Sean.

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

One of the other problems with our run game is everyone knows when we are gonna run it. We as fans know it. The other team knows it.

 

We need to be better about disguising it to a degree. 

You really can't go in expecting to fool the defense. You have two options, run and pass. You need to execute both well without playing a guessing game with the defense.

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Running the football is overrated when you have a QB like JA attack the defense on every down!!! Make them adjust to us and try to keep up with an inferior QB. Let it rip Josh!!

We scored 6 points vs the jags.  That doesn’t mean anything to you?

[klos63]

13 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Running the football is overrated when you have a QB like JA attack the defense on every down!!! Make them adjust to us and try to keep up with an inferior QB. Let it rip Josh!!

If the line played better, we can live by the pass, like last season. But that's no longer the case.

Lost in much of this is 3/5 , 60% of our line did not have the starter playing . That's significant. We fix 40% of that tomorrow with Brown and Williams. That's also significant.

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by klos63

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Cosell’s comments on Josh are interesting.  He was not a fan of Josh as a QB prospect and during his first few seasons 

 

I think that's not representing Cosell's take accurately.  He's not a fan; he's a film guru specializing in QB analysis, and he admits a bias towards technically sound mechanics and how a QB operates from structure (within the pocket).  He openly admits he doesn't get into character or personality, he's just looking at the film.  His choice was Rosen followed by Mayfield, and he points out that there's a difference in philosophies held by reasonable smart people.

He evaluated Allen pretty accurately at the time (start at 13:30).

 He said Allen has phenomenal arm strength and is big and can move.  He can make "wow" plays and his top 25 plays would be the best 25 plays of any of these guys. There's a difference between arm strength and arm talent (which means accurate placement).  He said he's not a pace and touch thrower, and on a lot of the shorter and intermediate throws his ball placement is not very good (this was true, could be seen even at the Combine).  The Browns guy offered up Deshone Kizer as a comparison and Cosell said Allen is more spectacular and (his word) "freakish" (in his athletic talent).  Anyway I put this here because I thought it was interesting.

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think this video speaks directly to what a number of people are saying in several different threads

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/greg-cosell-josh-allen-will-play-better

 

Cosell:

"Every time I watch the Bills offense, it seems that my final notes involve two things.  Number one, I say, they don't really have a viable run game, either in terms of volume or production.  And number two, I always type that I think their offensive line is not one of the better OLs in the league in terms of pass protection"

"I've always believed that any time you have a weakness, a flaw, an inconsistancy, whatever you want to call it...it can come up and bite you in any given game."

"Then I'll add one more point.  I love Josh Allen as a player.  I think he's on his way to being one of the best QBs in the league.  But it is very very difficult, every week, no matter how good your QB is, to pretty much say, even if you don't say it in so many words 'you have to be great every week or we don't have a chance to win'.  That's a tough way to play." 

"They asked him to drop back more than 50 times in a game that was close. .....it's one thing if you're down 20 to nothing early in the 2nd quarter, but this was a normal game in terms of closeness......

.....I know people who know coaches very well, so I know for a fact that he's a very accountable young man, and he took full credit for the fact that he played poorly and he's got to play better, and he will play better"

"I think the run game is a patience issue.  If you're going to run the ball, you're going to have plays that gain 1, that gain 2, that lose 2.  I think teams that really believe in the run game, don't give up on it if that happens.  And we know the Bills are not one of those teams."

Re Breida: "Outside zone is his baby, we saw that in San Francisco.  And the Bills run outside zone, so they don't have to change anything if they play Matt Breida". 

 

Key Points:

-The Bills have to commit to trying to run the football.  Can't just run a couple times, lose yards, and say "oh that didn't work"

-Put Josh under center for outside zone runs and to get the DL moving laterally, that helps the OL. 

-You also get the play action boot pass game, which you don't get with the same efficiency from the shotgun

 

(my counterpoint is that I think sometimes our OL is so poor that putting Josh under center would just put the DL in his lap; keeping him in shotgun is designed to let him see and avoid)

 

 

I agree the problem with Josh under center is that the dline gets to toff on him three steps earlier as the line has shown no ability to block consistently 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

One of the other problems with our run game is everyone knows when we are gonna run it. We as fans know it. The other team knows it.

We need to be better about disguising it to a degree. 

 

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

You really can't go in expecting to fool the defense. You have two options, run and pass. You need to execute both well without playing a guessing game with the defense.

 

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

A run game that works by disguise isn't a run game at all. 

 

I may not understand what you guys have in mind by "fooling" or "disguise" , but on the surface for what I mean, I think these are bad takes.  To me, "disguise" or "fool" here doesn't mean run some trickery dickery, it just means that the defense is left in doubt as to whether they're about to face a run or a pass play, so they need to remain in a reasonable position to defend both.

 

Obviously the defense's job is easier if they can diagnose run vs pass ahead of the snap, so part of the Art of a top OC is to create doubt.

 

When we run empty sets or split the back out wide, the defense has no doubt it's a pass and can pin their ears back.

Even with an RB in the backfield, if the Bills are in Shotgun, the overwhelming odds are Bills are passing, they can pin their ears back.

Allen under center, the overwhelming odds are Bills are running, so they can key on that.

 

My guess is if I had the statistical tools to break down run/pass tendencies by down and distance, I could do even better, and if I had film breakdown on "tells" from the OL and from Allen, I'd nail it.

 

The very best teams can execute when everyone knows what they're gonna do initially, but after a while defenses start to catch up and figure out how to defend it, and then they struggle.  This happened to the K-Gun, this is happening to KC and to Baltimore, and it's happening to us.  Then there needs to be a compensating adjustment or there's trouble.

 

[JohnNord]

48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that's not representing Cosell's take accurately.  He's not a fan; he's a film guru specializing in QB analysis, and he admits a bias towards technically sound mechanics and how a QB operates from structure (within the pocket).  He openly admits he doesn't get into character or personality, he's just looking at the film.  His choice was Rosen followed by Mayfield, and he points out that there's a difference in philosophies held by reasonable smart people.

He evaluated Allen pretty accurately at the time (start at 13:30).

 He said Allen has phenomenal arm strength and is big and can move.  He can make "wow" plays and his top 25 plays would be the best 25 plays of any of these guys. There's a difference between arm strength and arm talent (which means accurate placement).  He said he's not a pace and touch thrower, and on a lot of the shorter and intermediate throws his ball placement is not very good (this was true, could be seen even at the Combine).  The Browns guy offered up Deshone Kizer as a comparison and Cosell said Allen is more spectacular and (his word) "freakish" (in his athletic talent).  Anyway I put this here because I thought it was interesting.

Ok then I’ll say Greg wasn’t very high on Allen.  I used to hear him on One Bills Live every Friday with John Murphy and he would break down the Bills game from the previous week. 
 

Like you said, the thing that Greg always hammered Josh on was mechanics and decision making during his first two seasons.  It happened nearly every week.  He did say at the time that Josh already turned out to be a better QB than he projected.  
 

For Cosell to go from these critics to saying that Allen be one of the top Qb’s in the NFL is quite a jump 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Ok then I’ll say Greg wasn’t very high on Allen.  I used to hear him on One Bills Live every Friday with John Murphy and he would break down the Bills game from the previous week. 
 

Like you said, the thing that Greg always hammered Josh on was mechanics and decision making during his first two seasons.  It happened nearly every week.  He did say at the time that Josh already turned out to be a better QB than he projected.  
 

For Cosell to go from these critics to saying that Allen be one of the top Qb’s in the NFL is quite a jump 

 

Agree with that last completely.

 

My point was that Cosell wasn't one of these over-the-top pile-on types like Sam Monson of PFF or Football Outsiders' Aaron Schatz.  Cosell had specific technical critiques of Allen's play as a QB and when the cause for criticism faded so did his critiques.

[gomper]

Cosell is fantastic. Right on the money as usual. Running game is the key 

[BuffaloMatt]

RUN Forest RUN