It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

One size fits all doesn’t fit everyone. 
 

Are you the guy who said vaccines don’t work for most people after 6 months? Or is that one of the other bad info posters? 

All right, stop with gratuitous insults.  The information I post is based on the science of what we know and don't know.   We do know these vaccines work.  That is undisputed.  We also know that, if you have been infected and survive, you develop antibodies against the virus.  We also know that some people who are infected develop either less of an immune response, or may not develop antibodies at all.  That data is out there.  And we know that in those who produce a strong immune response after infection are doing well, which is great. 

 

I am all for doing more studies of the natural immune response.  Researchers are trying to figure out what the long term immune responses are in both those vaccinated and those who have been infected and develop an immune response.  There is an interesting study out of Rockefeller University that suggests vaccines and natural immunity both produce memory B cells, which are those that make antibodies against virus for a long time.   Their data suggests that the memory cells are produced much quicker than in those with natural immunity, but the ones from natural immunity may stay around and provide protection for a lot longer.  And of course this does not take into account the cell mediated, T cell responses of either.

 

The point is that this is a very complex scientific issue, and it requires some of the brightest minds in virology and such to figure it out.  What we do know without doubt is that unvaccinated people should be vaccinated.  If they do not, they put themselves at risk of becoming infected and potentially dying or suffering serious adverse effects.  On that there is absolutely no question.

 

Just realized this response should have gone to Timmy, but my point on the gratuitous insults stands.  We don't need that stuff.

21 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't believe natural immunity is 13 times better, but going back to my original point- why mandate a vaccine for someone who already has the antibodies? A 25 year old who had Covid 3 months ago is not going to as much as of threat as a 65 year old who got vaccinated in Feb. The govt making a one size fits all for this situation is the problem 

Because we don't know for sure how protected they will be, and we know there are no downsides to the vaccination in such individuals.  

Edited September 23, 2021 by oldmanfan

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

As health care workers our obligation is to keep our patients safe and healthy.  The best way to keep patients safe from Covid is to have everyone around them in the hospital vaccinated.  The science on that is incontrovertible.   

Here's what puzzles me.  Out of intellectual curiosity if it's so incontrovertible then why are many of what I expect are the most knowledgeable about the virus and the vaccination, health care workers, hesitant to get vaccinated?  If all was on the up-and-up I'd expect there would be absolutely no reason or need to apply coercion and force to this segment of the population given their access to and knowledge of COVID information. 

Could it be stats like the FDA severe adverse events reporting of 7,899 deaths following vaccination as of 9/20/21.  How does that count compare to other "safe" vaccines?  

[oldmanfan]

26 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Here's what puzzles me.  Out of intellectual curiosity if it's so incontrovertible then why are many of what I expect are the most knowledgeable about the virus and the vaccination, health care workers, hesitant to get vaccinated?  If all was on the up-and-up I'd expect there would be absolutely no reason or need to apply coercion and force to this segment of the population given their access to and knowledge of COVID information. 

Could it be stats like the FDA severe adverse events reporting of 7,899 deaths following vaccination as of 9/20/21.  How does that count compare to other "safe" vaccines?  

First of all, there are not as many health care workers as you think not taking the vaccine.  I'll use my health care network as an example.  Out of approximately 14,000 employees, only about 200 had to be let go for vaccine refusal.  That's about 1% of our workforce.  ECMC says they will have 400, but without knowing their total number of employees I would say that it would be in the single digits of percentage of employees.  The vast majority of health care workers get vaccinated because they understand they need to protect themselves and their patients, and because they understand and accept the science.  The ones that don't are allowing political views to skew their thought process.  You think there are a lot of health care workers not taking it, because the few that won't get highly publicized. 

 

The VAERS system reports ALL incidents from ALL vaccines as I understand it.  And they report any side effects.  Also, the reporting can be done by anyone, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that some anti-vax people are filing false reports.  The CDC has been vigilant about following up with vaccinated folks, and any VAERS reports have to be looked into by the CDC and the FDA.  When they do so, the number of supposed deaths that can be attributed to the vaccine are extraordinarily small.

 

Now, does that prevent those who are bound and determined to not accept the truth from coming up with false data and such.   Sadly, no.  You see in today in this very thread.  It used to be they would point to the VAERS data as proof of something sinister.  But since that hasn't worked, now they point to the VAERS data as being unreliable because (supposedly) all the mystery deaths and reactions from the virus are not being reported.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

First of all, there are not as many health care workers as you think not taking the vaccine.  I'll use my health care network as an example.  Out of approximately 14,000 employees, only about 200 had to be let go for vaccine refusal.  That's about 1% of our workforce.  ECMC says they will have 400, but without knowing their total number of employees I would say that it would be in the single digits of percentage of employees.  The vast majority of health care workers get vaccinated because they understand they need to protect themselves and their patients, and because they understand and accept the science.  The ones that don't are allowing political views to skew their thought process.  You think there are a lot of health care workers not taking it, because the few that won't get highly publicized. 

 

The VAERS system reports ALL incidents from ALL vaccines as I understand it.  And they report any side effects.  Also, the reporting can be done by anyone, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that some anti-vax people are filing false reports.  The CDC has been vigilant about following up with vaccinated folks, and any VAERS reports have to be looked into by the CDC and the FDA.  When they do so, the number of supposed deaths that can be attributed to the vaccine are extraordinarily small.

 

Now, does that prevent those who are bound and determined to not accept the truth from coming up with false data and such.   Sadly, no.  You see in today in this very thread.  It used to be they would point to the VAERS data as proof of something sinister.  But since that hasn't worked, now they point to the VAERS data as being unreliable because (supposedly) all the mystery deaths and reactions from the virus are not being reported.  

Thanks for the insights..

[Sundancer]

13 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Thanks for the insights..

I’ll echo oldman as well. The people not getting the vaccine in health care are not the workers most people envision. It’s not the doctors and nurses refusing the vaccine. I am not diminishing their contribution to effective health care but my point is this: More informed health care workers are getting vaccinated. 

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Sundancer said:

One size fits all doesn’t fit everyone. 
 

Are you the guy who said vaccines don’t work for most people after 6 months? Or is that one of the other bad info posters? 

I admitted a while ago that I was reading the same bad info that Biden and his team was about the 6 month issue, but you like to keep on it for some reason- probably because it makes you feel better about your unethical decision to force children  to get a vaccine for an illness that is almost no threat to them 

[TSOL]

So i was watching the local news last night and of course vaccine talk was dominating the show. And they had a doctor on, had interviewed him. 

 

So he come on and says very clearly with emphasis in his voice "not being vaccinated is literally like playing russian roulette, the odds arr similar" and then in a much quieter and nearly mumbled voice he says "if you are male, over 85 and have pre existing co-morbidities" 

 

If it wasnt real, it would have been comical 

 

[Sundancer]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I admitted a while ago that I was reading the same bad info that Biden and his team was about the 6 month issue, but you like to keep on it for some reason- probably because it makes you feel better about your unethical decision to force children  to get a vaccine for an illness that is almost no threat to them 

Cute. 
 

No reputed scientist ever said the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months. Only Buffalo Timmy stuck to his “guns” on that misinformation. 

[Orlando Tim]

32 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Cute. 
 

No reputed scientist ever said the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months. Only Buffalo Timmy stuck to his “guns” on that misinformation. 

Yeah because the president was not pushing for a 6 month booster last week and Israel is not giving them to everyone, but "no reputable scientist" ever said the effects were waning. Keep pushing your unethical belief that children need to be vaccinated.

[Sundancer]

36 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Yeah because the president was not pushing for a 6 month booster last week and Israel is not giving them to everyone, but "no reputable scientist" ever said the effects were waning. Keep pushing your unethical belief that children need to be vaccinated.

 

Effects are waning =/= "the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months"

 

 

 

I didn't think you were admitting you were wrong. You are sticking to your misinformation, I guess because you are afraid to admit you're wrong under your anonymous name on a football board. Remember integrity?

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

Effects are waning =/= "the vaccine doesn’t work for most people after 6 months"

 

 

 

I didn't think you were admitting you were wrong. You are sticking to your misinformation, I guess because you are afraid to admit you're wrong under your anonymous name on a football board. Remember integrity?

That was my original comment when I was looking at the same info Biden was still using this week. I admitted I believed the wrong source, but I admitted it weeks ago. How are you doing on your unethical stand?

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

That was my original comment when I was looking at the same info Biden was still using this week. I admitted I believed the wrong source, but I admitted it weeks ago. How are you doing on your unethical stand?

You didn’t even admit you’re wrong today.
 

My what?

 

 

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

20 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I was reading the same bad info that Biden and his team was about the 6 month issue,

 

11 hours ago, Sundancer said:

You didn’t even admit you’re wrong today.

 

My quote today- perhaps you can tell me what these words meant to you? 

[JaCrispy]

21 hours ago, TSOL said:

So i was watching the local news last night and of course vaccine talk was dominating the show. And they had a doctor on, had interviewed him. 

 

So he come on and says very clearly with emphasis in his voice "not being vaccinated is literally like playing russian roulette, the odds arr similar" and then in a much quieter and nearly mumbled voice he says "if you are male, over 85 and have pre existing co-morbidities" 

 

If it wasnt real, it would have been comical 

 

People are becoming hip to what’s going on, that it’s not about heard immunity, or the virus...

[plenzmd1]

Just tested positive for the coco...fully vaxed since April 24th. 

 

Cold like symptoms. These vaccines are not vaccines, they are therapeutics, and we should call them as such.

[Orlando Tim]

25 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Just tested positive for the coco...fully vaxed since April 24th. 

 

Cold like symptoms. These vaccines are not vaccines, they are therapeutics, and we should call them as such.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html

 

No no you dumb plebeian, the words just mean something different now. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Buffalo Timmy

[Big Blitz]

 

[TSOL]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Always trust your friendly neighborhood drug dealer 

[T master]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:01 PM, SoCal Deek said:

I'm going to suggest you let your wife run the daycare. You appear to be just a tad out of control.

So you never answered my last reply to this just wondering if you read it .

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Medical staff does NOT want the vaccination

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

42 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Medical staff does NOT want the vaccination

 

 

 

Where I work about 1% of our staff refused. To say medical staff does not want vaccine is a wild exaggeration.

[B-Man]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Where I work about 1% of our staff refused. To say medical staff does not want vaccine is a wild exaggeration.

 

 

Not in this particular case...........as you can read.

 

 

Also, in my neck of the woods, OGH had to shut down a floor due to staffing unavailability.

 

 

It is a problem there is no reason to try and spin it

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by B-Man

[Boatdrinks]

54 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Not in this particular case...........as you can read.

 

 

Also, in my neck of the woods, OGH had to shut down a floor due to staffing unavailability.

 

 

It is a problem there is no reason to try and spin it

 

 

 

Agreed. I personally know Nurses and ( Medical) Doctors that will not get the vaccine. Their reasons vary, but they refuse. While I am vaccinated, I believe it’s a personal decision that should be up to the individual and there shouldn’t be any mandates. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

                                    

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

                                    

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

EXCLUSIVE:

@RollingStone got inside an NBA players' union meeting, where stars are saying any jab requirement is a "non-starter."

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/

 

 

 

[BillStime]

 

[oldmanfan]

8 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

                                    

 

 

 

 

Here’s a quick quiz:  

Which of these pictures is indoors?

Which of these pictures has people who cannot get vaccinated?

Edited September 26, 2021 by oldmanfan

[GaryPinC]

19 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Not in this particular case...........as you can read.

 

 

Also, in my neck of the woods, OGH had to shut down a floor due to staffing unavailability.

 

 

It is a problem there is no reason to try and spin it

 

 

 

My hospital has had nurse staffing challenges since at least early summer because of burnout/leaving.  One of the biggest reasons for nurses leaving was to become an independent contractor and earn 1.5-2 times the money.  This was well before a vaccine requirement.

[Sundancer]

19 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Agreed. I personally know Nurses and ( Medical) Doctors that will not get the vaccine. Their reasons vary, but they refuse. While I am vaccinated, I believe it’s a personal decision that should be up to the individual and there shouldn’t be any mandates. 

My wife and best friend work in a huge a large medical system respectively. The vax holdouts are not doctors and nurses. Not to diminish the contributions of the people holding out, but they are mostly not medically trained folks. They are more like the PPP epidemiologists. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Sundancer

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, Sundancer said:

My wife and best friend work in a huge a large medical system respectively. The vax holdouts are not doctors and nurses. 

This is not entirely true...they may not be the majority, but they are out there...many have quit, many have joined lawsuits and in the middle of litigation...

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:32 AM, plenzmd1 said:

Just tested positive for the coco...fully vaxed since April 24th. 

 

Cold like symptoms. These vaccines are not vaccines, they are therapeutics, and we should call them as such.

 

Are you doing ok?

[JaCrispy]

10 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

EXCLUSIVE:

@RollingStone got inside an NBA players' union meeting, where stars are saying any jab requirement is a "non-starter."

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/

 

 

 

Fight the power!

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

My hospital has had nurse staffing challenges since at least early summer because of burnout/leaving.  One of the biggest reasons for nurses leaving was to become an independent contractor and earn 1.5-2 times the money.  This was well before a vaccine requirement.

That’s ok...NY Governor Hochul just said they will just replace unvaccinated nurses with illegals...🤣

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

This is not entirely true...they may not be the majority, but they are out there...many have quit, many have joined lawsuits and in the middle of litigation...

 

Many have quit here as well.  To me still middle of fence for everything and think info for vaccines to help people. But never mandate or force people to take them. Just on the fence still of everything even tho vaccinated. 

 

Some people take vaccines too far. (understand on covid vaccine) Some say all are bad. Lack of education. Like Tetanus vaccine, insult for people on diabetes.  All helpful. 

[Orlando Tim]

I just saw that in California that anyone over 12 must be vaccinated to attend Warrior games, is there anyone who believes the vaccine is for the 13 year old and not for others? The mentality that makes a healthy 13 year old do something to protect a 55 year old overweight smoker is absurd 

[Sundancer]

 

For the “vaccinated people transmit just like unvaccinated” posters. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sundancer

[Orlando Tim]

38 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

For the vaccinated people transmit just like unvaccinated posters. 

You keep banging the same drum and ignore the bigger point- it is not a vaccine. A vaccine makes you immune to an illness. This is the lesser equivalent of the flu shot. I have gotten my Covid shot and usually get a flu shot but the vaccine for teen is immoral. And lastly only a few people argue the vaccine is completely worthless 

[Sundancer]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You keep banging the same drum and ignore the bigger point- it is not a vaccine. A vaccine makes you immune to an illness. This is the lesser equivalent of the flu shot. I have gotten my Covid shot and usually get a flu shot but the vaccine for teen is immoral. And lastly only a few people argue the vaccine is completely worthless 

Maybe you didn’t see the graph. The vaccine gives immunity AND if there’s a breakthrough, confers the added benefit of less severity. 
 

Many previous vaccines had lower effectiveness but we praised them. And of course more people adopted them. 
 

I advised this already but look at the graph. Give a teen a vaccine and they break the transmission chain. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 9/26/2021 at 7:12 AM, oldmanfan said:

Here’s a quick quiz:  

Which of these pictures is indoors?

Which of these pictures has people who cannot get vaccinated?

I think I’m the only one, but I always find myself wondering if these people spontaneously appear at these outdoor events, or if they take public transport/stop at restaurants/use communal restrooms/fly on airplanes/stay at hotels/drive in cars/comingle with others from multiple hh families and so on.  
 

As for who could or couldn’t get vaccinated, I tried to look for comorbidity indicators but the durn folks were packed in there so tightly like sardines in a penny loafer it was hard to say where one body started and the other ended.   
 

It seems to me where boatloads of money/entertainment/political priorities and the virus meet, money and politics seems to win just about every time.  Then again, maybe the virus occasionally hovers as has been speculated on since 2020. 
 

 

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Sundancer said:

Maybe you didn’t see the graph. The vaccine gives immunity AND if there’s a breakthrough, confers the added benefit of less severity. 
 

Many previous vaccines had lower effectiveness but we praised them. And of course more people adopted them. 
 

I advised this already but look at the graph. Give a teen a vaccine and they break the transmission chain. 

It give it immunity for a short while- I have watched it rip through my parents retirement community over the past 6 weeks. All of them vaccinated who caught COVID, thankfully no one has died but stop with the immunity talk. If true immunity then you would require people to be vaxxed to attend events, or wear masks when at school.