It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Here's some brilliance from the CDC.  But you know, keep blindly following them...

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868

 

"A tremendous number of government and private policies affecting kids are based on one number: 335. That is how many children under 18 have died with a Covid diagnosis code in their record, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Yet the CDC, which has 21,000 employees, hasn’t researched each death to find out whether Covid caused it or if it involved a pre-existing medical condition.

 

Without these data, the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices decided in May that the benefits of two-dose vaccination outweigh the risks for all kids 12 to 15. I’ve written hundreds of peer-reviewed medical studies, and I can think of no journal editor who would accept the claim that 335 deaths resulted from a virus without data to indicate if the virus was incidental or causal, and without an analysis of relevant risk factors such as obesity.

 

My research team at Johns Hopkins worked with the nonprofit FAIR Health to analyze approximately 48,000 children under 18 diagnosed with Covid in health-insurance data from April to August 2020. Our report found a mortality rate of zero among children without a pre-existing medical condition such as leukemia. If that trend holds, it has significant implications for healthy kids and whether they need two vaccine doses. The National Education Association has been debating whether to urge schools to require vaccination before returning to school in person. How can they or anyone debate the issue without the right data?"

 

 

 

 

Short Bio on Author:  A professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, he has published over 250 scientific articles on the re-design of health care, medical innovation, and vulnerable populations. Dr. Makary has been elected to the National Academy of Medicine and is Editor-in-Chief of Medpage Today. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and USA Today and is a frequent medical commentator.

 

Also Marty Makary, "We'll have herd immunity by April."

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Here's some brilliance from the CDC.  But you know, keep blindly following them...

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868

 

"A tremendous number of government and private policies affecting kids are based on one number: 335. That is how many children under 18 have died with a Covid diagnosis code in their record, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Yet the CDC, which has 21,000 employees, hasn’t researched each death to find out whether Covid caused it or if it involved a pre-existing medical condition.

 

Without these data, the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices decided in May that the benefits of two-dose vaccination outweigh the risks for all kids 12 to 15. I’ve written hundreds of peer-reviewed medical studies, and I can think of no journal editor who would accept the claim that 335 deaths resulted from a virus without data to indicate if the virus was incidental or causal, and without an analysis of relevant risk factors such as obesity.

 

My research team at Johns Hopkins worked with the nonprofit FAIR Health to analyze approximately 48,000 children under 18 diagnosed with Covid in health-insurance data from April to August 2020. Our report found a mortality rate of zero among children without a pre-existing medical condition such as leukemia. If that trend holds, it has significant implications for healthy kids and whether they need two vaccine doses. The National Education Association has been debating whether to urge schools to require vaccination before returning to school in person. How can they or anyone debate the issue without the right data?"

 

 

 

 

Short Bio on Author:  A professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, he has published over 250 scientific articles on the re-design of health care, medical innovation, and vulnerable populations. Dr. Makary has been elected to the National Academy of Medicine and is Editor-in-Chief of Medpage Today. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and USA Today and is a frequent medical commentator.

This makes a good point.  Children and adolescents are at very low risk of death.  But two things to mention.  One, we’ll have to watch the data as more children seem to be susceptible to the delta variant.  Second, while understandably everyone focuses on mortality rates we’ll have to see what the long term morbidity effects are in the younger population.

[BillStime]

17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

A bit of reading comprehension trouble today. I didn’t say that three percent doesn’t make a difference. I said that if you’re trying to show that somehow Californians are more ‘advanced’ than Floridians then these statistics are not indicative of that hypothesis. Got it? 
 

I’m done…this is exhausting.

You dig your own holes!
 

Have a great day

[Chef Jim]

6 hours ago, BillStime said:

You don’t know how to read graphs. What are the values on the y axis?

It’s not the values numbskull.  Comparing y axis values to two different areas is foolish. 

[BillStime]

48 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

It’s not the values numbskull.  Comparing y axis values to two different areas is foolish. 

You are the one that was trying to prove a point and failed miserably.

 

Check AND mate

 

lmao

 

 

[Chef Jim]

13 minutes ago, BillStime said:

You are the one that was trying to prove a point and failed miserably.

 

Check AND mate

 

lmao

 

 

Checkmate?  Ha. You just took my decoy pawn with your queen leaving your king exposed. 
 

What do the Y-axes represent? 
 

Check 

[BillStime]

18 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Checkmate?  Ha. You just took my decoy pawn with your queen leaving your king exposed. 
 

What do the Y-axes represent? 
 

Check 

It’s ok JIMMY - it’s clear you don’t know how to read graphs

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, BillStime said:

It’s ok JIMMY - it’s clear you don’t know how to read graphs

What does the Y-axis represent. It’s a very simple question.  

[Bockeye]

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Also Marty Makary, "We'll have herd immunity by April."

Weak. You have any data that refutes his?

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

What does the Y-axis represent. It’s a very simple question.  

Go find out 

[Bockeye]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

This makes a good point.  Children and adolescents are at very low risk of death.  But two things to mention.  One, we’ll have to watch the data as more children seem to be susceptible to the delta variant.  Second, while understandably everyone focuses on mortality rates we’ll have to see what the long term morbidity effects are in the younger population.

This is very reasonable. 
 

Will be interesting to see the long term effects of the various vaccines as well as long COVID (those whose symptoms continue).

 

All of the media is so politicized though, I’m not sure we will ever get full clarity.  Strange times indeed.  

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Go find out 

Checkmate due to opponent’s forfeiture. 

[BillStime]

7 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Weak. You have any data that refutes his?

Did you even read the article?

 

They reviewed cases from April to August 2020.
 

That data doesn’t reflect the current situation with the delta variant.

 

What’s your point to posting this?

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

This is very reasonable. 
 

Will be interesting to see the long term effects of the various vaccines as well as long COVID (those whose symptoms continue).

 

All of the media is so politicized though, I’m not sure we will ever get full clarity.  Strange times indeed.  

I am not worried about any long term effects of the vaccines.  First, historically side effects from vaccination are extraordinarily rare and, if they occur, are seen within weeks.  We saw this with the very rare blood clot issues and the myocarditis with the Covid vaccines, which are picked up quickly due to the reporting mechanisms used globally.

 

Granted then mRNA viruses are new technology, but they are basically lipid packages of mRNA.  The mRNA is transcribed then degraded, and does not alter the genome in any way.  SoI don’t see where the theoretical fear of long term adverse effects are supported based on the science.

[BillStime]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Checkmate due to opponent’s forfeiture. 

Your ignorance is on display Jim…

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I am not worried about any long term effects of the vaccines.  First, historically side effects from vaccination are extraordinarily rare and, if they occur, are seen within weeks.  We saw this with the very rare blood clot issues and the myocarditis with the Covid vaccines, which are picked up quickly due to the reporting mechanisms used globally.

 

Granted then mRNA viruses are new technology, but they are basically lipid packages of mRNA.  The mRNA is transcribed then degraded, and does not alter the genome in any way.  SoI don’t see where the theoretical fear of long term adverse effects are supported based on the science.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna757526

 

1/3 of drugs have unexpected side effects, which is not extraordinary rare. Old school vaccines are not as problematic as they used to be because we have spent 80 years making them better. RNA effects on the body is still an unknown, which you seem to admit. While I doubt there will be any life threatening problem in a decade we don't know because we don't have a long term study 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna757526

 

1/3 of drugs have unexpected side effects, which is not extraordinary rare. Old school vaccines are not as problematic as they used to be because we have spent 80 years making them better. RNA effects on the body is still an unknown, which you seem to admit. While I doubt there will be any life threatening problem in a decade we don't know because we don't have a long term study 

Drugs work somewhat differently than vaccines.  Many drugs on the market work on membrane receptors which then normally send downstream signals into the cell.  So the effect on those downstream events can get tricky.  Vaccines basically prevent viruses from entering cells and don’t generally have downstream intracellular effects.  The side effects of vaccines are more due to accelerated response of the immune system and thus get picked up pretty quickly.  
 

mRNA viruses are indeed different but as I indicated they are mRNA packaged in lipids to maintain solubility.  The mRNA is transcribed and then rapidly degraded.  And there is no genomic effect.  Unless you are buying into the nonsense about magnetism and secret chips, the biology of these vaccines are very simple.  

[Big Blitz]

What a joke:

 

 

Barack Obama's star-studded birthday venue records massive Covid spike following bash

 

A total of 74 positive cases have been recorded on Martha's Vineyard since last Saturday's party. The figure represents more cases in any week since April and has led many bars and restaurants throughout the island to begin insisting guests wear masks again.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1477024/barack-obama-news-birthday-60-Marthas-Vineyard-Tisbury-Jay-Z-Beyonce-1477024

[SCBills]

Of course this is the logical next step…

 

How people don’t see what’s going on right now is beyond me. 
 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Drugs work somewhat differently than vaccines.  Many drugs on the market work on membrane receptors which then normally send downstream signals into the cell.  So the effect on those downstream events can get tricky.  Vaccines basically prevent viruses from entering cells and don’t generally have downstream intracellular effects.  The side effects of vaccines are more due to accelerated response of the immune system and thus get picked up pretty quickly.  
 

mRNA viruses are indeed different but as I indicated they are mRNA packaged in lipids to maintain solubility.  The mRNA is transcribed and then rapidly degraded.  And there is no genomic effect.  Unless you are buying into the nonsense about magnetism and secret chips, the biology of these vaccines are very simple.  

All that's well and good but if the vaccine is effective what then are vaccinated people afraid of regarding contacting un-vaccinated people?  Other than people stating they "don't feel safe" what if any facts justify their fears?

 

More importantly and seemingly lost on almost everyone is an insight from the the CDC director that a vaccinated person is capable of carrying the same high viral load as an un-vaccinated person.  The unstated conclusion is troubling, vaccines don't kill or stop the virus from replicating.  So every vaccinated person walking around is a potential mutation and variant incubator and the vaccination program as currently defined will not eradicate or control the virus.  We still need a strong and effective anti-viral to gain any real control over the outbreak, vaccinated or not.