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SI Mailbag: if chiefs, Bills swap QBs, who had better offense?


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7 hours ago, jkeerie said:

To me, the big difference on the Chiefs offense is Kelsey.  He is so elite, and gives any QB a huge target on any down.

 

him, and CHE  

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Are we going to do the Josh Allen vs Patrick Mahomes debate for the next 15 years? They are both great QB's. Pat Mahomes has more super bowls and more MVP trophies. If Josh gets one of either, we

95 days until the regular season.   Just shoot me now.

To me, the big difference on the Chiefs offense is Kelsey.  He is so elite, and gives any QB a huge target on any down.

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

him, and CHE  

Che was far from special this year. Very favorable situation for a rb to be in too. I think there's alot of rbs that could do what he did last year in that offense

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11 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


Don’t really care - I love Josh and can’t stand Mahomes.  
 

I will take Josh 100 times out of 100.  
 

I don’t care who is better - it is about having our guy and that is all I am concerned with.

 

11 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Why would anyone hate on Mahomes?  

 

I don't think @Rochesterfan's post was remotely an indictment of Mahomes as a player... more as a person and (maybe??) as a leader, and I think this is perfectly reasonable.

 

Honestly some of you are nuts. The Chiefs have been the vastly more talented team offensively for the last 3 seasons and the Bills finally appear to have caught up talent-wise to even have this conversation.

 

Josh Allen carried this team completely on his shoulders his rookie year, got at least a little help his 2nd year and more his 3rd year. But he's the fulcrum for this team.

 

He has more rushing Touchdowns since being drafted than fellow 2018 draftees Nick Chubb and Lamar Jackson--and he has 67 passing TDs to Jackson's 68.

 

Just think about Josh Allen with a competent offense from the beginning...

Edited by transplantbillsfan
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14 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Why would anyone hate on Mahomes?  


 

Look as we do not know any of these guys personally - we can only go by what we saw in interviews as a player and especially pre draft.  As we were looking for QBs - I tried to watch every interview, every QB section talk, everything available about these guys pre draft and I never liked the way Mahomes came across as a person and a leader. 

 

Mahomes just seemed very one note - and was not a guy I wanted - even if he is the best in the game.  As a person and a leader - I would choose Josh 100 times out of a hundred because he is exactly the kind of guy that I love to watch play, root for, and see grow.  
 

To me it is very much like Kelly and Marino.  Marino was the better “QB”, but was never a guy that I could like - he just seemed like a jerk, but Kelly fit the mold of a guy that I could root for - everything about him appealed to me - even when he was being a total tool - like calling guys out - there was just something n his make-up that I could get behind.  
 

Josh is that same way and even better - he seems humble, but wants to win - willing to do anything for his guys.  Mahomes just does not do that for me - he didn’t in stuff prior to the draft and since he has been in the league.  Much like when Rex was here - I would root for a Mahomes led Bills team, but he would not excite me as a fan - so even if we never beat the Chiefs - I would still not trade Allen for Mahomes because I personally love being invested in Josh.

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7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

him, and CHE  


 

CEH is nothing special.  The RBs put up worse yards and receptions than the previous year and when CEH was injured - their UDFA on the roster put up better numbers.  
 

He is a name and nothing else.

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16 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Are we going to do the Josh Allen vs Patrick Mahomes debate for the next 15 years?

They are both great QB's. Pat Mahomes has more super bowls and more MVP trophies. If Josh gets one of either, we can start comparing.

 

Until then, just enjoy the ride. Do we really have to have a short-man complex about even our good players?


Solid short man reaction to the national press writing about us potentially having the best young qb in the game 

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9 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

Let's throw some numbers around. . . .

 

Yards per attempt (career)

Trent Edwards: 6.5

Alex Smith: 6.9

Tom Brady: 7.5

 

Alex Smith's last year in KC: 8.0

 

Quarterback rating (career)

Trent Edwards: 75.5

Alex Smith: 86.9

Tom Brady: 97.3

 

Alex Smith's last year in KC: 104.7

 

Riddle me this: if Andy Reid's system and personnel provided this dramatic a boost to Alex Smith's numbers, what kind of boost might Patrick Mahomes be getting?

 

I'd argue that this past season, Josh Allen played at a higher level than Patrick Mahomes. I'd further argue that Allen had the second-best 2020 season of any QB in the NFL, after Aaron Rodgers. If Buffalo and Kansas City were to simply swap their starting quarterbacks, the beneficiary of that trade would be Kansas City.

 

 

interesting stats, i think smith was good and mahomes is great, but of course ried and that squad is a big tail wind.

 

wrt allen vs pat last year, i don't think your take is that controversial, i mean that's basically how MVP voting went.  do many people argue it?

 

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18 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

 

If I was purely neutral, I would still want Allen over Mahomes.

 

1)He's Bigger, Faster, & Stronger

2)Bigger arm (Yes, it's true) 💯

3)More durable and will have a longer career

4)Still improving, hasn't hit his peak yet whereas Mahomes is what he is which is elite, but not other-wordly like the media wants us to think. The Bucs proved that.

5)I Josh is a more likeable guy and is a leader without trying to be dominant over his teammates. Plus, he doesn't do those stupid *** State Farm commercials. 👎

 

You put anybody under center on that Chiefs team such as Alex Smith, Matt Moore, Chad Henne, and they they all look good. Put them on the Bills and I don't think they do as well. The Chiefs simply have a better offense at the moment, (at the moment) but Emmanuel Sanders is gonna be Josh Allen's secret weapon this year. He is my #2 dark horse this year behind Jacob Hollister. 🧐

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Are we going to do the Josh Allen vs Patrick Mahomes debate for the next 15 years?

 

I hope so, because it would hopefully mean Allen is in the building and "in the conversation" for top gun, playing well

 

19 hours ago, Rigotz said:

They are both great QB's. Pat Mahomes has more super bowls and more MVP trophies. If Josh gets one of either, we can start comparing.

 

I love me some Josh Allen, but he had a great year last year.  He really needs to stack a few great years together to be called a "great QB" IMHO.

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4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

Look as we do not know any of these guys personally - we can only go by what we saw in interviews as a player and especially pre draft.  As we were looking for QBs - I tried to watch every interview, every QB section talk, everything available about these guys pre draft and I never liked the way Mahomes came across as a person and a leader. 

 

Mahomes just seemed very one note - and was not a guy I wanted - even if he is the best in the game.  As a person and a leader - I would choose Josh 100 times out of a hundred because he is exactly the kind of guy that I love to watch play, root for, and see grow.  
 

To me it is very much like Kelly and Marino.  Marino was the better “QB”, but was never a guy that I could like - he just seemed like a jerk, but Kelly fit the mold of a guy that I could root for - everything about him appealed to me - even when he was being a total tool - like calling guys out - there was just something n his make-up that I could get behind.  
 

Josh is that same way and even better - he seems humble, but wants to win - willing to do anything for his guys.  Mahomes just does not do that for me - he didn’t in stuff prior to the draft and since he has been in the league.  Much like when Rex was here - I would root for a Mahomes led Bills team, but he would not excite me as a fan - so even if we never beat the Chiefs - I would still not trade Allen for Mahomes because I personally love being invested in Josh.

I think it's ridiculous to hate on another QB just because you like your own QB better.  As you said, you don't know him personally yet you "can't stand" him.  

Personally, I don't hate any opponents players because the better they are the more I respect their excellence.  It's pretty obvious that the guys who do know Mahomes, his teammates, respect him as a person & a leader.  

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10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

I don't think @Rochesterfan's post was remotely an indictment of Mahomes as a player... more as a person and (maybe??) as a leader, and I think this is perfectly reasonable.

 

Honestly some of you are nuts. The Chiefs have been the vastly more talented team offensively for the last 3 seasons and the Bills finally appear to have caught up talent-wise to even have this conversation.

 

Josh Allen carried this team completely on his shoulders his rookie year, got at least a little help his 2nd year and more his 3rd year. But he's the fulcrum for this team.

 

He has more rushing Touchdowns since being drafted than fellow 2018 draftees Nick Chubb and Lamar Jackson--and he has 67 passing TDs to Jackson's 68.

 

Just think about Josh Allen with a competent offense from the beginning...

I've thought the same thing about Josh's rookie year & career.  When I hear clowns in the national media who almost never see Josh play cite statistics from his rookie year & 2nd season and say he came out of nowhere last year, I go crazy.  They are clueless to the fact that in his 1st 2 years Josh's stats didn't match what we were watching in games-a player who willed his team to a lot more victories than the roster was built for that season.  For Josh to get 5 wins as a rookie in 11 starts with no OL or WRs was pretty amazing.  After seeing Josh as a rookie, in his 2nd season I was all in & made some good money betting the Bills over win totals & to make the playoffs.  The stat boys never saw it coming, but last year, when the stats finally caught up with what was going on on the field to me, and most likely you too, it was no surprise.  

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12 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I think it's ridiculous to hate on another QB just because you like your own QB better.  As you said, you don't know him personally yet you "can't stand" him.  

Personally, I don't hate any opponents players because the better they are the more I respect their excellence.  It's pretty obvious that the guys who do know Mahomes, his teammates, respect him as a person & a leader.  


 

So as I said - it has nothing to do with liking my own QB better.  
 

Coming out as a draft pick - watching him do predraft coverage with media and do the chalk board stuff - Mahomes seemed like a butthead.  I was on record that even if we drafted him - he was not a guy I could find myself rooting for.  The more stuff I have seen in both the media and on the field - I feel just as strongly.  He would not be a guy I connect with as a fan.  He just isn’t. 
 

Much like Rex as our HC - I would root for Mahomes if he was on Buffalo, but I would only be rooting for him because I am a Bills fan.  Maybe more of his personality would actually shine, but what I see - I think he makes for a terrible face of the franchise.

 

On the other hand - I loved Josh Allen in the pre draft stuff - before he was even drafted.  He seemed to have a great personality, ultra competitive, but fun loving and a real outgoing soul.  I was rooting for him before we even drafted him because he just seemed like a real great guy.

 

Going into that draft - my biggest fear was Allen going #1 to Cleveland and us getting stuck with Baker or Darnold.  Both Baker and Darnold seemed like ok guys, but neither had the personality that I wanted to see leading my team.  I want to root not only for my favorite team, but it is so much better if they are great guys that you want to root for also.  That is where Josh is.

 

I have tons of guys across the league (and occasionally on the Bills) that I can’t stand.  There are all types of people that act like Kareem Hunt and go after women, there are guys that are to full of themselves (Rodgers), there are out and out bad guys (Ray Lewis, Big Ben, and Hernandez as extreme cases) - and I can’t stand these guys no matter what team they are on.

 

There are also tons of players like Tre White, Josh Allen, Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Aaron Donald, McCaffrey, etc - that seem to love the game and have a great fun time out there playing.  Even a guy like Nick Bosa and the comments and things said during after the Bills game just seemed like fun and I tend to rather watch and root for those players.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Let's not forget that KC HC Andy Reid took a 2-14 team and went 11-5 in his first season 2013...this with Alex Smith at QB. 

 

The next four seasons the Chiefs were in the playoffs 2013-2017. Patrick Mahomes got to sit for a season watching Alex Smith play while learning. He started for an already good playoff team with a good run game, good receiving corps, good O line along with great coaching.

 

Andy Reid has been building and refining that team for eight seasons and has been to the playoffs 7 of those 8 seasons. 

 

I think Josh Allen is the better QB who has had to deal with a not so great team around him in his first seasons. While being thrown into that proverbial fire he came out hardened like tungsten carbide. 

 

I think the best is yet to come for Allen. Still, a lot will depend on how the offense is called.

 

Bills OC Brian Daboll fell on his face in the playoffs for Buffalo in 2020 IMO. The Bills barely* beat the Colts 27-24 while putting the entire offense on the QB to win with little rushing, 21 rushes for 96 yards. Allen sacked 2x and Colts QB Rivers hardly touched with no sacks. 

 

Against the Ravens the Bills won 17-3 and the Bills offense scored only 10 points this game. Again, with little run game Buffalo 16 rushes for 32 yards. That pick six in the end zone by Buffalo was a 14 point turnaround. The Bills defense carried this game. 

 

Meanwhile, KC HC Andy Reid and his assistants rose up to win a SB in 2019 and made it to another in 2020. Huge differential in offensive coaching for the playoffs between these two teams.

 

Since this thread seems to have some legs....This.

 

Mahomes was drafted into a team that was already good enough to have 4 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances, before he walked in the door.  With the emergence of Hill in his 2nd season and Kelce added to Kareem Hunt's legs, the KC offense took a big step in 2017 with Mahomes watching on the bench.  (Smith is a competitive guy and having his replacement watching probably turned him up a notch).

 

This isn't intended to diminish Mahomes at all.  The KC offense took a huge step with him in 2018 and, dare we say it, perhaps Bienemy might be an upgrade on Nagy as OC?   Mahomes >> Smith, no question. 

 

But Mahomes was handed the keys to a top-10 offense (#6 on PF #7 on yards in 2017) with a balanced attack, top-10 in both rushing yards AND passing yards, with a top deep threat WR, TE, and RB, on an established, winning franchise with an established, winning HC.

 

Allen was handed a trowel and a stack of bricks and told "help us build something"

 

 

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10 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Don't forget his mom, the "QB Producer".

 

And this, is the first time I have ever wholeheartedly endorsed the "Vomit" emoji as the perfect reaction - not to your post but to her garb and moniker.

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2 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

As an outsider who occasionally visits this board, the number of Mahommes vs Allen threads is deeply disturbing 

 

1) As a fan of a Bills player, even the 3rd string QB with his moniker and image as your screen name and avatar, what is this "outsider" BS?

You're one of us now.  Don't pretend detachment.

2) As someone who has posted on the forum ~ a dozen days in the last 30 days, sometimes to make multiple posts...your definition of "occasional" is non-standard

3) As your posts include the following gems:

"It just means if Cam can't go, Jones will come in and torch the Bills defense"

(another hurdle JA must jump over) "1 year wonder hurdle"

(local hotel) "I would make sure to do a bed bug check"

 

.....please feel free to be so DEEPLY disturbed that it moves you either Elsewhere....... or to silence!

 

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